NoTV 2 Mafia (Game Over, Scum and 3rd Party Win)

[CF7]

tl;dr:

Either of you could be scum. I think both of you are scummy. However both of you cannot be. You and CF7 flipping scum is mutually exclusive because of D1.

So... A Question. If one of us is lynched and flips town, will you auto-lynch the other?
Also could you satisfy my curiosity..? I'd like to know your role-name. Just a role-name without your abilities, alignment and all that.

[Sky_Paladin]

I started wagons on two players who flipped town and I was absolutely certain they were scum so I feel useless and dumb. 

I think that Dormio must have been town and was janitor killed by scum, because the rules say that on night 2, humans can't take any actions.  That means vampires did it, and they wouldn't janitor one of their own guys. 

As to why he was cleaned up I don't know :/  I have to read everything again. 

[CF7]

There's a small problem. It kinda conflicts with the rules.

3. Scum have no NK on N1 and N2, in preperation for things to come. Afterwards, they must NK every night.

[PX]

There's a small problem. It kinda conflicts with the rules.

That was the rules last time. They have a N2 vig to make up for those lost kills

[ActionDan]

I honestly think there are 4 scum inside of the 9 people that didn't commute. 

Also anyone could have been converted for any reason.   It's folly to think that it has to be BT 90% chance etc.  If it were me, I probably would have converted PX for example.  But it's not me. 

I agree with Conq on most things.  like not wanting to lynch Dorian.  Not really wanting to lynch PX. 

I might agree to kill off NNR actually.  maybe.

[CF7]

That was the rules last time. They have a N2 vig to make up for those lost kills

Scumslip, much?
Anyway, last time i checked, this part was in the rules for this game too.

[PX]

tl;dr:

Either of you could be scum. I think both of you are scummy. However both of you cannot be. You and CF7 flipping scum is mutually exclusive because of D1.

I... hope you realize that someone on town just became a Vanilla Mafia. That means town reads and association reads from D1/2 go out the window

[SB]

If Dormio was Janned, he was probably inspected as some kind of power role? I don't see why scum would kill him otherwise? >.>

Gonna read back through now.

[SB]

The way Dormio dropped PX makes me think he might have been the cop, actually? >.>

[NekoNekoRex]

Weekends are brutal for me when my computer is out of reach. I'll be back a bit more often now, then.

[NekoNekoRex]

Still don't like CF7, I feel like he hasn't really done anything all game, it bothers me. No strong scumreads, no solid votes. He dropped Oarfish for what looked like a few twitterposts, I dunno how he managed to feel decent enough about that to unvote.

PX vote is there but isn't really based on anything new, he just doesn't like the claim. Does he even have a vote right now?

I'm sort of wondering what happened to avoid his lynch yesterday, maybe because Oarfish was a lurker lynch?

##Vote: CF7.

Kind of feel annoyed that he's narrowly avoided a lynch two days in a row, that says a lot about how scummy people think he is, I think that sentiment should be applied a bit more judiciously.

[NekoNekoRex]

PX is similarly awful. Did you know his last few votes have been completely blank? How are people reading him town?

His only content posts in recent times have been pure setup speculation.

He is coasting maximum hardcore and getting away with it. I only wish I had two votes to punish it.

[NekoNekoRex]

In fact

##Unvote
##Vote: PX

CF7 is, at the very least, actually trying.

[Raikaria]

I... hope you realize that someone on town just became a Vanilla Mafia. That means town reads and association reads from D1/2 go out the window

Which is exactly why I am saying BT has a high chance of being converted. A convert role I think would target a person who is seen as town. To me; the strongest townreads are Conq and BT. Conq was untargetable; and the convert was successful. I also highly doubt that the mafia would convert Dorian and especially CF7. Therefor I am fairly confident that BT was converted, but since no-one else seems to want to talk about this possibility -_(0v0)_-

So... A Question. If one of us is lynched and flips town, will you auto-lynch the other?
Also could you satisfy my curiosity..? I'd like to know your role-name. Just a role-name without your abilities, alignment and all that.

I would consider the other likely to be scum; but auto-lynching? No. That would depend on other events.

Also I do not see a reason to give out a role-name. Why would I put out valuable information to people? Especially people I think as scummy? A role name is basically giving out my abilities. For example; saying my role name is 'Doctor' tells you exactly what I am. [I am not a Doctor] This is blatant rolefishing. I shall give you a hint; however. I will amuse you. My role begins with a V.

If you want I can tell you my character name. That doesn't give scum useful information. I think.

[Raikaria]

Actually; thinking about it:

#Unvote
#Vote: PX

Hypocritical logic just now has broken the camel's back when combined with a lack of actual good content such as solid cases, opinions and such.

Look at #351; then his explanation in #357; which he only gives when prompted for that matter. And then look at #366 and tell me how on earth PX can have this chain of logic against me. He goes from quoteing me talking about converts and saying I'm not reading to saying I don't realize someone got converted. That's hilarious.

And as much as I hate to use what CF7 said as a reinforcement to my case given my low opinion on him as well; as CF7 said in #365; potential scumslip.

How on earth can PX accuse me of not realizing someone got converted when in his post where he voted me; for apparently not reading; he quoted me talking about me thinking either Conq or BT were converted?

It seems like PX is just throwing things out and seeing what sticks at this point. His content all game has been poor, and I'm not the only one to say this.

[CF7]

I would consider the other likely to be scum; but auto-lynching? No. That would depend on other events.

Noted.

If you want I can tell you my character name. That doesn't give scum useful information. I think.

That's what i meant, yes.

[Raikaria]

Byakuren Hijiri

[Affinity]

Everything is Anything      
         
Raikaria:    Dorian, PX (2)            
Mitsuki:    Conqueror, Shadoweh (2)               
PX:    NNR, Raikaria (2)         

Not voting: ActionDan, Mitsuki, CF7, Zakeri, Sky_Paladin, SB

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
You have around 60 hours remaining

[ActionDan]

px's "scumslip" isn't a scumslip

[NekoNekoRex]

The amount of setup spec I've been seeing is pretty ugly. People need to stop relying on NotV1 information and other meta bullshit.

[NekoNekoRex]

[Raikaria]

Stop advertising my upcoming game NNR.

px's "scumslip" isn't a scumslip

Would you care to add anything else today Dan?

[SB]

SMASH DISTRACTIONS TOO STRONG I'm just gonna listpost screw this

I'm ignoring the commuters since there's only 1/3 scum in there at best and I don't really see the utility in scum having it anyway? Not saying it's impossible, but it doesn't seem likely to me. I also think Dan and Conq are town off of general play and what I posted about Mitsuki still stands, although its not as strong as the other two. So that leaves uh...

3. CF7
4. Sky_Paladin
6. Dorian
7. Raikaria
11. Shadoweh
12. NNR
13. PX
15. BT

I'm fairly sure that BT WAS town before last night, at the very least. His play has been fine and I don't think scum would have the audacity to fake receiving an item after what happened with Dan last game either. Dorian also looked fairly town during the first two days and I'm starting to buy their Raikaria case, tbh. Plus I feel like it'll be easy to figure out if they're scum for other /reasons/ I'd rather not divulge which helps. Still don't think PX's D1 deadline posts would come from scum, and the only reason I see him being recruited over other candidates is as an oddball choice so there's that.

I'm kind of torn on Sky and Shadoweh. I didn't like their earlier play but I thought Shadoweh's content yesterday looked better (although I don't remember any of her suspicions except CF7 actually so uh, I think Sky looks better out of the two of them) and now Sky is playing as he does normally I don't really have any issues with him? I also don't think he would be so loud about being part of two mislynches, so there's that too.

NNR's sudden vendetta against PX coasting looks horribly false considering he hasn't done anything either, and his grand return doesn't really show any change in opinions at first either. It feels like he just came in to throw down a vote and then actually thought about it afterwards and thought he could BS a better case on PX which is really bad.

I can see Raikaria as scum because the way he changes his reads feels a lot like the game where we were buddies? One example of it is just now where he suddenly leaps on PX after NNR attacks him despite all of the content to vote PX on being already present, and I'm pretty sure people have pointed it out more at other points in the game. I don't think his bad logic makes him town either (I think BT said this?) in hindsight because his logic for votes in that game were pretty bad too which is why I attacked him so much.

The fact that CF7 has lasted this long despite being a wagon every day and never claiming makes me fairly suspicious of him on its own? His "content" today is more reporting than actual scumhunting too, except for pointing and yelling "scumslip" and rolefishing Raikaria for no good reason, which is what he did in Medaka Box too iirc?

##Vote: CF7

[NekoNekoRex]

NNR's sudden vendetta against PX coasting looks horribly false considering he hasn't done anything either, and his grand return doesn't really show any change in opinions at first either. It feels like he just came in to throw down a vote and then actually thought about it afterwards and thought he could BS a better case on PX which is really bad.

I haven't liked PX all game, I've made this pretty clear, I don't see how this is a 'vendetta'. I also made it rather clear that I wouldn't be around D2, unlike PX who has been around and posting, but hasn't said anything of real value.

[CF7]

The fact that CF7 has lasted this long despite being a wagon every day and never claiming makes me fairly suspicious of him on its own? His "content" today is more reporting than actual scumhunting too, except for pointing and yelling "scumslip" and rolefishing Raikaria for no good reason, which is what he did in Medaka Box too iirc?

Considering i was sorta flash-wagonned both times while i was asleep, me not claiming is understandable. If you want me to claim, let me consult my role PM, because it is so complex, i completely forgot what it says exactly. Oh, wait. I remeber.
I am Hieda no Akyu and i am VT. 

[BT]

Dorian: Raikaria has this energy to his posts that shows he's barging in without restraint rather than putting out enough fake content to seem town. Like, last game where I caught him as scum I made the comparison that his town game has him more involved and practical, and it was true. And I think it's true here as well. That's why I keep saying he's meta-town. I think the silly 33% stuff at the beginning of the game and the response to the Shadoweh wagon you keep bringing up supports this assessment, since it's the kind of weird off-the-road content that scum usually don't get to fake (and I could probably bring more examples - those are just off the top of my head). You wanted substance in case I'm making this stuff up, so... the first post that sourced this read was this one. Hell, even as early as #57, which I noted here.

This goes without saying, but we should go off of D1/D2 information and lynch an original scumster today. We can root out the recruit later by future content and NK / wagon analysis. If Conq, Dan and Mitsuki were recruit-immune, the remaining theoretical townie recruit pool would be something like SB/Dorian/Raikaria/Shadoweh/myself. Seeing PX basically say how the janitor works among other things makes me want the entirety of NoTV1 spilled out in front of me in case the mechanics seem carbon-copied from that game.

First immediate suspect that pings me is NNR, since he's posted plenty but I don't remember a lick of what he's been up to. I'm reading the recent PX post and it seems fine, but I can't seem to remember any of his former cases/votes - he churns them out and disappears. It's also the kind of slot that fits most scumteams I can imagine, you know, the position I had Dormio in before he died. <_> Anyway, I'll probably want to hover around a NNR vote today.

Especially since I'm still not certain about the CF7 lynch, and since Mitsuki's away time means I don't feel there's enough content there to have a solid D3 Mitsuki wagon. Other people include PX/Shadoweh, who I feel just fine enough about to kind of ignore but there was never anything solid about the read. Dan and even SB fit this category if I overextend it, but yeah, eh. I might start looking at maybe SB if CF7 flips town, but otherwise I don't think so. SB, what was obvtown about PX's D1 deadline posting? I remember not having a strong opinion either way about it.

I wanna read NNR and CF7 again before I vote. Maybe look at D1 and D2 wagons since CF7 was always there.

[Mitsuki]

People who are talking about the first NotV should at least explain what it consisted on so that everybody can understand.

I can only imagine two reasons why Dormio would be killed by scum: one is what SB stated and the other is him being spot on about his reads.

Conqueror is probably town, his thought process reads as genuine. In addition, D1 he kept posting more and more when he said he had to leave a couple of times, and I don't think scum would feel like keeping posting.

I think NNR is scum. He didn't hold any real suspicions on D1 and most of D2, and it feels like he posted for the sake of posting. I can't see a train of thought there, his comments on players seem random and non-commital. His D3 post on PX looks like casing someone for not being standard rather than for being scummy. I'm not sure of what to think about his CF7 votes, though.

@NNR: What made you change your opinion on Dormio? You first stated that he felt townie but then said you didn't feel good about him.

I'm ok with Raikaria's D1 and D2, but his D3 is being entirely different. His PX vote looks like switching just because NNR voted before, in spite of his CF7 suspicion being much stronger. How he's been handling the recruit spec seems super scummy as well, it looks like he's trying to get people to suspect general townreads more than doing actual scumhunting; I think that town would at least try to compare the post from D1/D2 to the posts on D3 that their suspects made. Probably the recruit.

I don't like how CF7 cases me for voteswitching and apparently not pursuing my case hard enough here but then he does the same. I don't think switching is scummy, but I think scum players are prone to case people for stuff they do themselves as scum.

##Vote: CF7
Since he's still the scummiest. CF7 >>> Raikaria > NNR

Replies

Those contradictions aren't really contradictions

Why? Anyways I probably used the wrong word, they're more of inconsistencies than contradictions.

cf7 is troublesome~ I could get around that his mitsuki vote was reactionary but I remember his play style to be reactionary anyway~

Being reactionary isn't a scumtell by itself, but how one is reactionary varies according to one's alignment. As an example, PX's way of being reactionary seemed townie to me, but CF7's was the opposite for the reasons I already stated.

I think CF7 would hold more conviction, if CF7 thought that he could convince someone.

Conviction is not about how much you think others will listen to you, but about how much you believe what you're saying.

I didn't switch to null, i stated the reason of your vote at the time.

I'm not talking about your read on me, I'm talking about you suspecting me based on my voteswitch.

[Raikaria]

Mitsuki you are aware you are voting CF7 partly for caseing you on voteswitching when you just cased me for voteswitching...

And I switched because I had come back; read PX's recent posts; and then after I pressed 'post' it sunk in how hypocritical PX was being. It has nothing to do with NNR. In fact my reasons are pretty different to hose of NNR.

I'm voting PX primarily for his blatant contradictions he is making in his own case upon me, in combination with his general lack of impressive content. PX had several poor posts in a row. That was the vote trigger, probobly not just for me but also NNR. And accusing someone of sheeping a wagon with 1 vote on it only is a little silly.

I don't see how me saying BT has a good chance to be converted is attempting to make town suspect townreads. We know there was a convert. We can't trust prior townreads. If I am making people suspect people who are prior townreads that's a great thing; because there was a convert! And this is a thing we can't just ignore. The fact BT is saying this when he is probobly the primary possibility for a convert makes me suspect him even more.

[Mitsuki]

Dude, not all voteswitches are the same...
Your voteswitch doesn't look justified, also where are those contradictions?
It's not suspecting BT/Conqueror by itself, it's the way you handled it.

too lazy to explain again when everything's already in my previous post

[BT]

Why?

Going back to this will be a detour, but basically you had, I think, two things that looked like "contradictions" to you? And I found reasonable explanations for them.

I don't see how me saying BT has a good chance to be converted is attempting to make town suspect townreads. We know there was a convert. We can't trust prior townreads. If I am making people suspect people who are prior townreads that's a great thing; because there was a convert! And this is a thing we can't just ignore. The fact BT is saying this when he is probobly the primary possibility for a convert makes me suspect him even more.

You realize I can say this as town, right? Why wouldn't I when I see "lynch BT for 90% success"? What I posted above is the strategy I wanted to go with since this game started anyway - you don't have a lot of ways to reliably catch the recruit now and all it does is shake things up for the benefit of scum. If you had 5 townreads before, you earn more by listening to 4 real ones and 1 fake rather than trashing them all.

Anyway, I don't get PX's contradictions. He only said you should be aware that association reads don't work, not "you didn't notice the recruit, therefore you aren't aware that association reads don't work".

CUT: Yeah, I don't think this behavior around the recruit is anywhere beyond my Town Raikaria.