NoTV 2 Mafia (Game Over, Scum and 3rd Party Win)

[Raikaria]

Dude, not all voteswitches are the same...
Your voteswitch doesn't look justified, also where are those contradictions?
It's not suspecting BT/Conqueror by itself, it's the way you handled it.

too lazy to explain again when everything's already in my previous post

PX claims he is voting me for not reading; because I fail to notice Conq could not be targeted and thus could not have been converted.

PX then proceeds to claim I am ignoring the fact that someone was converted.

When his previous case on me was two lines where I was talking about the convert.

Which is a blatant contradiction. His own case uses lines where I show I am aware of the converting that happened. So why on earth is he accusing me of ignoring the possibility of the conversion?

And doubly ironic when his 'case' on me is that I'm not reading the game, when he doesn't exactly seem to be.

It feel like PX is just throwing anything he can find at me to try and get it to stick. It seems like he is flailing scum attempting to make a case because multiple people are not liking his activity, but falling over his own feet doing so contradicting himself in less than 15 posts.

But seeing the opinions of people seems to be against my logic on PX, I might just back off back to CF7 again. No sense pushing a wagon that isn't going anywhere, and while I personally would wager on BT being converted, I can't prove it in any way, and I guess it is plausible they converted someone else thinking 'they'd expect BT/Conq'.

Did I mention this game sucks? So many lurkers.

[Raikaria]

Seriously I have half a mind to just systematically lynch the lurking people [Probably starting with the worst offender; ActionDan] and just give up making cases because no-one seems to ever agree with my cases this game.

But I do want to try and actually make cases other than 'ActionDan has lurked the entire game and hasn't contributed anything meaningful he's probobly not town'.

[Raikaria]

Hell lurker lynches probobly are not even such an awful idea at this point. Scum could just happily be sitting back letting town lynch itself.

[Mitsuki]

PX states that he voted you because of ignoring that Conqueror couldn't be converted, not because you ignored that someone couldn't be converted at all. I don't think he doubted that you knew about the recruitment.

PX should probably answer himself.

[Raikaria]

Except I was coming off a major re-read of content, not mod posts.

And that doesn't explain his accusation in #366 that I'm unaware someone was converted.

[Raikaria]

Done for the night. Will think things over again with a clear head in the morning and after any events tonight.

[CF7]

I'm not talking about your read on me, I'm talking about you suspecting me based on my voteswitch.

Hello... Earth to Mitsuki. I reapeat Earth to Mitsuki.
I am not suspecting you based on your vote-switch. I am suspecting you based on your overly defensive reactions to being called scum. What you're trying to pass as me suspecting you for your vote-switch, was me simply stating your reason for voting Zak. Also i said that since most people, who voted Zak were not around the deadline, so i was not really sure if they could be called scummy based on that.

Tbh, i really don't like NNR's #369-372 outburst. It looks forced to me. Like, "omg, i need to post and vote. Let's type something". Also his own content in comparison was not much better.

[Mitsuki]

I am not suspecting you based on your vote-switch.

Also you are quite strongly accuse me of being scummy and want to lynch me. Yet in your latest post you are willing to switch to someone else "for consolidation purposes". Which is not really a good reason to abandon your strongest scum read, instead of pushing for said read lynch, to be honest.

[Dorian White]

If Dormio was Janned, he was probably inspected as some kind of power role? I don't see why scum would kill him otherwise? >.>

Gonna read back through now.

Maybe because he was on scum all game? That's just a guess~ I have no idea why he got actually killed nor is that the reason why I'm so certain about Raikaria but you can't deny that it fits in the picture!

And yes~ it was BT who called Raikarias play ?Very purposeful, unrestricted posting.? which I honestly don't see at all* and that's sadly the only actual town read on Raikaria that I remember* If  people don't agree with my case is that one thing but I get the feeling that they just avoid the topic as if it's the cause of malaria or something* ^^;
Also ~ isn't it odd that BTs town read on Raikaria came after Raikaria gave a even less explained town read on BT? I wouldn't go as far as to say BT is his buddy for it but I still have to wonder where this sudden ?mutual understanding? came from* Especially since Raikaria felt the need to highlight BTs vote on the Shadoweh wagon!

@BT: It took you a while*^^; And I still disagree with it* No matter if scum or town~ Raikaria has always his very own logic in his mind~ so scum Raikaria goes for the same weird off-the-road content as town Raikaria* No~ he is perfectly able to take full advantage of the flaws in his town play as scum!
But more important~ where is the involvement you talked about? The active scumhunting~ the questions and the grilling he was so fond of?
He doesn't tries to find scum~ he just says why he votes XY and sits on it~ that's all!

Yay~ still more then happy with where my vote is* ^.^/

[NekoNekoRex]

@NNR: What made you change your opinion on Dormio? You first stated that he felt townie but then said you didn't feel good about him.

Opinions of others during D2 rubbed off on me a bit and made me doubt my town read (this happens a lot, honestly). There's not much I can say about him now, as he is already dead.

I am pretty confident in my current reads though so I don't think I'll move them much.

Today is a busy day for me but I'll try to get some different reads in.

[Sky_Paladin]

Raikaria

A convert role I think would target a person who is seen as town. To me; the strongest townreads are Conq and BT.

I think a convert role would target a safe-middle ground player.  BT is fairly public and visible; it's likely he'll be checked/rechecked in the game.  ActionDan is a chronic lurker and is likely the go-to for a town 'lets drop a lurker'.  So if it was me, I would look at players like you, Shadoweh, and myself for the converter - midground players that haven't had a huge wagon on them and aren't likely to have one. 

How on earth can PX accuse me of not realizing someone got converted when in his post where he voted me; for apparently not reading; he quoted me talking about me thinking either Conq or BT were converted?

He goes from quoteing me talking about converts and saying I'm not reading to saying I don't realize someone got converted. That's hilarious.

This very obviously says that PX is voting you because you screwed up and said Conq was 50% convert chance when we had a mod note saying it's impossible.  This could (and should) have been easily countered by you, by saying something like 'being wrong is not scummy, why are you voting me?' but instead you tried to paint PX as scummy when he was actually pointing out your mistake and voting you for it. 

So I think you are scum for basically OMGUS at this stage in the game, when PX was in the right. 

##vote Raikaria

[Bardiche]

Art. 6 ECHR: Obligation to respect human rights      
         
Raikaria:    Dorian, PX, Sky_Paladin (3)            
Mitsuki:    Conqueror, Shadoweh (2)               
PX:    NNR, Raikaria (2)      
CF7:   SB, Mitsuki (2)   

Democracy-hating Communists: ActionDan, CF7, Zakeri

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
2 days, 5 hours-ish remain.

[Sky_Paladin]

So if it was me, I would look at players like you, Shadoweh, and myself for the converter

Should be 'So if it was me, I would look at players like you, Shadoweh, and myself for the converted'.  I shouldn't post before coffee.

[Conqueror]

There are people in this thread RIGHT NOW who haven't read the glorious Ness that is NOTV1? I'll make a proper post later but yeah I'd you have extra time you should ch3ck it out. Tld4 there was a recruiter aND a mafia janvig 5hat could only shoot n2 but there's no guarantee we have a similar setup this time, althou hi it looks like it.

[Conqueror]

##Unvote

Mitsuki's latest post looks reasonbly town. Mafia sucks.

PX, are you voting Raikaria because he missed that I couldn't be recruited? If anything I'd find that to make him marginally more town. Plus Raikaria has shown reading problems in the past a la Serela. >_> Please don't make me regret saving you D1. Leave Maki-chan alone for a bit and tell us what you think about the game.

That said, I don't really like any of the votes on PX. I still think Raikaria is town though. All the votes on him can get wrecked. If he's scum he's recruit!scum. I still haven't gotten through the meta game I wanted to get through.

All this recruit speculation is rather silly because scum could have gone for the towniest person, a middle of the road person, or they could have RNG'd. We don't actually know. All you can expect is that they wouldn't have gone for town lynchbait, which in this game really only applies to a town!CF7 given he's been on the ropes since D1. What we did when I was scum in NotV was we took a list of people, removed lynchbait and people we thought would adapt badly to being scum, and RNG'd the pick from there.

People saying that CF7 is scum because he's been a wagon every day and not been lynched, well unless you think that his counterwagons were pushed by scum, that doesn't really hold water. I will revisit my CF7 read again but people saying he lacks initiative I feel aren't actually reading his posts.

I am pretty confident in my current reads though so I don't think I'll move them much.

Could you explain what your current reads are? CF7 and PX for lurk scum? What, say, differentiates the PX in this game from previous PX town games?

I chickened out of voting NNR again and I want to do this instead:
##Vote: Shadoweh
Mostly for lack of initiative which I think is more likely to come from scum!Shadoweh. I'll come back later and see if I still agree with this or if it's just a product of being absent. Also, as much as I enjoyed being sheeped on Mitsuki at the start of the day, I think a town!Shadoweh would have done more than give a role argument and mention an argument about inactivity, since even as scum it would have been pretty easy for Mitsuki to make excuses in the QT about being too tired to post.

I might switch to NNR when I get back, depending on how much I waffle.

[Raikaria]

Sky if my vote was OMGUS it would have been after PX voted me, not after he said something else which seemed contradictory to his initial voting reason on me.

Anyway, at this point I am clearly beating a dead horse which isn't moving. A PX lynch isn't happening based on the evidence I've put foward.

Which basically gives me two options since no-one I wanted to speak up spoke up while I slept.

1: Go back to my CF7 vote [And probobly get accused of sheeping or wagon hopping. It seems I get accused of all sorts of stuff for every vote I make this game]
2: Vote ActionDan for being lurkscum [And probably get accused of being unable to make cases; despite the fact I have been trying to make cases on Dorian; PX and CF7 most of the game and each one has got rebutted.]

Well I guess there are other options like 'Vote BT because I think he was the convert' but yeah that's not gonna accomplish anything either.

Mafia games where so many people are doing nothing suck.

Screw it someone who's done this much nothing by Day 3 and contributed literally nothing to the town is almost certainly luckscum in my books. Go ahead and gut me for being unable to make a case if you want, I've been trying to make cases all game, and for the time being; I'm out because the scummy people are not even posting.

#Unvote
#Vote: ActionDan

[Raikaria]

And yes I am more than a little frustreated at this game at this point for a combination of lurkers and everything I do either being ignored or shredded.

[PX]

lol, what happened to not voting Dan because Conq thought he's town?

[Raikaria]

Because apparently people think everyone else I want to lynch isn't scum as well.

[Raikaria]

Also I really shouldn't give someone a free pass to lurk just because someone I think is town thinks they are town.

[Conqueror]

PX: Answer me please. And how does what Raikaria just did make Raikaria scum?
Raikaria: Why do you keep calling ActionDan lurkscum when he's posted a decent amount?

[Conqueror]

(More votes on Shadoweh)

[Raikaria]

PX: Answer me please. And how does what Raikaria just did make Raikaria scum?
Raikaria: Why do you keep calling ActionDan lurkscum when he's posted a decent amount?

Uh; he's not.

And what he's posted is almost no content at all most of the game.

I mean; his content for today is 3 posts and 6 lines. None of which contain a vote, let alone an actual case.

He's not alone in lurking. I'd probobly sting up Shadoweh at this point for it; or PX for a general lack of content outside whacking me over the head with a case that amounts to a wet fish. But ActionDan has been standing out to me as lurking for the majority of the game. I look over the game thinking 'What has ActionDan done of note' and come up with the answer: 'Absolutely nothing'. That's not a good thing to think when you are halfway through Day 3.

He's not the only person I dislike for lack of content, but besides maybe Shadoweh; who's few posts have far more substance, Actiondan is the worst offender in terms of lurking. Not that Dan lurking is much new.

[Raikaria]

Also why is Zakeri listed as not voting when he is dead?

[PX]

Man, I got caught up in reading parts of NotV. Jerks.

Quick tl;dr of the set up:
Remilia was vampire scum, godmother and recruiter on n2
Flandre was vampire scum, N2 janitor vig and cannot NK until remi was dead
Meiling was human scum, JoaT with Rolecop, roleblock, and tracker
Recruited turned to vampire scum

Town had
Aya, (human? w/e) cop who was confirmed to be away on N2 (lynched D1 so we never saw that)
Sakuya, vampire tracker/vampire vig on N2 (lynched d2 so w/e), post restricted to only claim vanilla town
Patchy, self targetable doctor after N2 (lol) who could die to either vig a vampire or roleblock a human for a day/night
Kaguya, human watcher
and two vanilla townies who claimed masons, only to have one turn on the other

So basically, it looks like the exact same thing.

Also, for all you people still trying to flavor game, there's this rule

6. Species is not an arbiter of alignment!  Characters may be different from their canon counterparts.

[Conqueror]

The scum roles don't have to be exactly the same. Affinity could have changed stuff to throw people off. But I'm find with assuming a recruiter/janvig for now. I'll note that given that Dormio was apparently ascetic? scum couldn't have have rolecopped him to shoot since I think people were suggesting that?

Also, people who never read NotV will never understand the context of this modpost:

Shadoweh flips MODKILLED
Bard flips MODKILLED
UK flips MODKILLED
Dormio flips MODKILLED
HW flips MODKILLED
PX flips MODKILLED
Zakeri flips MODKILLED

Anyway, PX answer my question.

To Raikaria: If Dan lurking is not new, then why is he scum this time? >_>

Of course, Dan could just make this easier on us by just actually catching up on the game and posting a vote. :V

[Raikaria]

Usually we've lynched Dan by now for it. And his lurking this game is worse than usual.

Also as I've said, I've pretty much exhausted all my actual cases and they're not working, and the people I think are scummy are not posting much anyway so I can't exactly make NEW cases. I'm pretty much resorted to going for lurker lynches.

[PX]

Really recommend you people read the game if you haven't already :|

Anyways, Raikaria

Nothing else really stands out at me as important enough to drag out again. I do have a couple of townreads and scumreads forming now [chief among these being Zakeri]

and

Also there's a sizable list of people who I am not happy with for general lack of content but what's new here?

Look like a general lack of solidness on D1. Basically setting himself up so he can say he was for and against any wagon.

His #101 looks like he's just posting to throw some reason for him to jump on those people at any moment, and defending Shadoweh (which is something to look at if one of them flips scum)
The flurry of posts after that also look like he's just posting, then looking through it later on

Not like Zak's end of day content was impressive or anything, indeed, you, PX and ActionDan voted for him shortly after his content.

This clearly shows a lack of reading the topic, or even caring because all our votes were simply because we didn't prefer the other option, not because we all thought he was scum. I mean, he was voting Zakeri for lurking, then ignores Zak's posts and trying to use this to justify him ignoring his posts.

His Dorian case on D2 is pretty bad, considering one of his main points is trying to say Dorian didn't care who was lynched when Dorian voted for the person he wanted lynched, while Raikaria just sat back at the end of D1. Basically, see above.

And apparently he hates all lurkers except Shadoweh for some reason

The fact that he later goes on to try and accuse Dorian of rolefishing when he's asking a person about to be lynched to claim is hilarious, to say the least. He's using bad buzzwords to make up for the fact that his case has no merit and trying to see if anyone sticks with it. And when nobody does, he just gives up! Seriously, look at his posts! He's just giving up on everything because nobody is following him up on it. Throw in his terrible logic and him accusing me of being scum with all these words that aren't related to what I'm saying (ie. what he's did with Dorian and accusation of rolefishing) when I'm calling him out on bad logic

cut:

Leave Maki-chan alone for a bit and tell us what you think about the game.

Make me

[PX]

I agree that the roles are definitely not the exact same as they were, which they shouldn't be the same regardless, but the way the night actions have been going on look similar to last game so we can regard the vig and conversion being roles on scum to be true.

[Shadoweh]

Also, as much as I enjoyed being sheeped on Mitsuki at the start of the day, I think a town!Shadoweh would have done more than give a role argument and mention an argument about inactivity, since even as scum it would have been pretty easy for Mitsuki to make excuses in the QT about being too tired to post.

Actually there's something about this that's confusing me, did you three not know you were going to vacate the game and have a QT together? That'd be really fucking strange but the way you're talking about it doesn't seem like you expected this from your roles. If you just got notified suddenly that you were all gone and suposed to talk it'd be different but if your role says you're going to talk with people on recruit night you aren't going to just forget to post in your qt.

I haven't put any thought into who would get recruited to be honest. For towniest and mushroomiest I would have said Dorian, but until a day's gone by you're not going to find anything scummy in what the townest person did when they were town. <_<