Author Topic: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)  (Read 108124 times)

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #870 on: September 18, 2014, 09:42:11 PM »
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.

Except
1) not everyone will play like me in a game ever, so it works.
2) Mafiascum often has several players in a single game who do exactly what I did and they perform very well.
3) If you can't understand how reading based on reaction and intent works, that's not my problem, it's your failure to comprehend.

And finally, my results speak for themselves!

First 5 times I played The Resistance I was a Spy. The 6th time I was Resistance and then the 7th I was a Spy again. No joke.

That was actually hilarious though.
I'd give you a pad on the head... if you didn't charge out of Day 4 voting for Serala.

But but but it's not my fault I got distracted by a Serela ;-;. (Ok yes, it is, but I have that problem in Mafia. Bad things distract me easily from real scum. It's a flaw, I admit it.)

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #871 on: September 18, 2014, 09:44:15 PM »
Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!

I'm not sure I can be a low effort soft drink~. I'm already a hallucinogenic drug, so!

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #872 on: September 18, 2014, 09:48:36 PM »
Any benefit town might've gotten from having more scum to find is overshadowed by the fact there would be a 4 scum voting block and if they wanted they could just refused to vote one another and made it so that almost the entire town had to band together to lynch scum day 1 (considering that they needed 7 votes for that.)

That said gj town for an almost perfect victory. I would've argued against the Schezo lynch because I didn't see scum having a functional vanilla as their last power role, but uh... they did, so.
I'm almost positive if all I did was post I wouldn't have gotten lynched but I felt like shit then and now I feel like shit for playing like that.  whoops

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #873 on: September 18, 2014, 09:49:00 PM »
Oh, yeah. Why I don't explain town reads, a quick tl;dr

1) It shows my hand as to what I find to be townie in a players game. Just because I look at intent and reaction instead of prima facie actions, doesn't mean intent can't be faked. My reads become less accurate over time and I need to constantly readjust to my meta, both within the game and after it.
2) Within the game itself, my time is better served looking for scum and putting prressure on them. If I'm drawn into a quagmire of arguing for why someone is town against someone who is stubbornly refusing to change their position(read: tunnelling) I'm wasting my effective time.
3) If the person can't save themselves, what happens when I die? It leaves a mislynch up for the scum to utilize in late game, if I save their skin now. If you can't save yourself, I can put my 2 cents in for how I feel about you and my preferred lynch but I'm not doing much else to benefit you. The exception in this game was when the wagons were so close at deadline, that ActionDan would be almost unlynchable for the rest of the game if I lynched Raikaria!scum over him at that point, so I put a little bit of effort into swinging the tides there.

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #874 on: September 18, 2014, 09:50:08 PM »
I'm almost positive if all I did was post I wouldn't have gotten lynched but I felt like shit then and now I feel like shit for playing like that.  whoops

Yeah I wish I could have invested more into saving you but see #3 above.


O4rfish

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #875 on: September 18, 2014, 09:54:05 PM »
It's not about not explaining town reads. It's about trying to convince other people why your scum reads are scum.
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #876 on: September 18, 2014, 09:59:08 PM »
It's not about not explaining town reads. It's about trying to convince other people why your scum reads are scum.

I get more information out of their reactions if I don't. You'll notice, I did infact explain some of my scum reads to a degree, but it's not optimal play early.

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #877 on: September 18, 2014, 10:00:35 PM »
Anyway I'm not sure why I feel the need to justify my play, least of all to you who didn't play in this game. @_@

Conqueror

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #878 on: September 18, 2014, 10:07:13 PM »
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.

Allow me to play devil's advocate. There's no way of playing mafia that works in such a way that if everyone played that way it would be "good" for town (sanity and using proper logic is not a playstyle).

(I do like it when players are transparent but I thought LLD was reasonably town this game regardless.)


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #879 on: September 18, 2014, 10:21:02 PM »
To be frank, I was being serious when I said I'd happily lynch you. If I was town I'd have tried to lynch you still Lexi. I really do not like your mafia playstyle and I don't think your D1 at least was protown, even if you ended up pushing on scum, your actions were far from why I was lynched. When your reaction to being asked for more reads/explaining them is something like 'I don't think you deserve to know' [Too lazy to look up exact quote] that is not protown behavior in my books and I can see it rubbing a lot of people badly if only for the 'I'm better than you' attitude it carries.

Also half-heart D1 when I roll scum due to busy IRL. Get lynched. PC dies meaning I'd have probobly got modkilled/replaced if I was still alive anyway. Only for my new PC a few days ago.

I guess the D1 lynch was a blessing in disguise?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:23:53 PM by Raikaria »


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Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Lexicat

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #880 on: September 18, 2014, 10:23:03 PM »
To be frank, I was being serious when I said I'd happily lynch you. If I was town I'd have tried to lynch you still Lexi.

Also half-heart D1 when I roll scum due to busy IRL. Get lynched. PC dies meaning I'd have probobly got modkilled/replaced if I was still alive anyway. Only for my new PC a few days ago.

I guess the D1 lynch was a blessing in disguise?

That's great. And I was being serious when I lynched you!

The difference is I succeeded.

I guess my point here is that playstyle differences are things that exist, and calling mine bad because you don't subscribe to it is pretty short sighted of you.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:24:41 PM by Lexicat »

Raikaria

  • Do Tank Girls Dream...
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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #881 on: September 18, 2014, 10:26:02 PM »
Hence why I said I do not like your playstyle.

I was being very specific about it being only my opinion.

I also don't like your 'better than you' attitude you had in game, and evidently out of game too.

Anyway I think I'm done talking about this game.


http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/tribute/
I don't even remember who put the above in my sig. [Wasn't me] Nor do I understand why I keep it here anymore.
Those two facts sum me up pretty well.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #882 on: September 18, 2014, 10:34:15 PM »
gg town
Touhou games 1cced(sadly on easy mode) MOF,DDC,IN,TD,POFV,UFO,EOSD,SA

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #883 on: September 18, 2014, 10:37:36 PM »
If only Mafia was a game of "lynch the asshole", we'd never lose a game of Mafia again. Unfortunately, it's not about disliking someone's attitude or personality, but about whether or not they behave in a pro-scum manner.

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #884 on: September 18, 2014, 10:44:49 PM »
Clearly I invest too much time and effort into this game (mafia, not this specific game).  I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it.  I keep deriding Dan (and Lexi) for their playstyle but it's apparently very effective. 

I've started playing some newbie games over at mafiascum to level up a bit.  In the mean time, I think I'll self-post restrict myself for a bit.  I feel like I lost this game somehow. 

Thanks to Zak for running the game, I've never seen such a light roles game before.  I was vanilla, and I presume Affinity and Lexi were too. 

Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum. 
My programming et al blog;
http://infinitestateautomaton.wordpress.com/

You want more mafia?
Megatokyo Mafia

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #885 on: September 18, 2014, 10:54:17 PM »
Don't worry Sky, I used to be just like you. I believed the bigger the walls, the better the post. Then I...

Wait, I still do that shit. Disregard me.

As long as you weren't seriously believing in your case on Lexicat as being valid to vote me for, I'm OK with that. It's easy to get lost in minutiae.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #886 on: September 18, 2014, 10:57:34 PM »
It's only worthwhile to post/talk a lot if you are

really really really sure that some fucko is mafia. 

Don't lynch me.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #887 on: September 18, 2014, 11:02:14 PM »
If only Mafia was a game of "lynch the asshole", we'd never lose a game of Mafia again. Unfortunately, it's not about disliking someone's attitude or personality, but about whether or not they behave in a pro-scum manner.

tbh being a jerk is pretty scummy. i personally wouldn't mind lynching assholes if it meant they would stop being assholes next time :^(

Sky_Paladin

  • Caution is advised.
  • Unit vector from the center is the surface normal?
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #888 on: September 18, 2014, 11:02:40 PM »
Quote
As long as you weren't seriously believing in your case on Lexicat as being valid to vote me for, I'm OK with that. It's easy to get lost in minutiae.

Oh no, I wasn't serious.  I just said it to gauge reactions.  I don't think I ever referred back to the QT thing once I started to seriously push for a Lexi lynch. 
My programming et al blog;
http://infinitestateautomaton.wordpress.com/

You want more mafia?
Megatokyo Mafia

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #889 on: September 18, 2014, 11:08:47 PM »
tbh being a jerk is pretty scummy. i personally wouldn't mind lynching assholes if it meant they would stop being assholes next time :^(

Every game I want to lynch the biggest asshole but voting myself is against the rules.

BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #890 on: September 18, 2014, 11:38:20 PM »
LMAO using mafiascum as a reference on how to play

You're right that you don't have to defend your style to anybody and that people play differently, but if you're going to imply that your style of play is better (which you did, several times during the game), then you also have to be prepared to hear arguments that it's actually worse.

I understand very well how reaction and intent work. But you can test for reactions and determine intent while also explaining yourself. And let's even assume that not explaining yourself results in better accuracy of reads- it still remains that not explaining yourself means that you're never going to actually convince anyone of your reads. Guessing who the scum are is only one part of the game. The other, larger, part of the game is convincing the other plebeians who can't catch scum with 100% accuracy like you that your reads are correct.

You're right that not everybody would ever play like you though (it wasn't a great way to express what I was thinking).

Also wrt outing townreads:

1) Outing a townread shouldn't mean that it's harder to catch them if they're actually scum... Actually, I could argue that if a scumteam member is being publicly townread, they're much more likely to feel complacent and slack off than if nobody outs townreads on them. So in that case it would be actually easier to deduce that someone is just faking the intent, because their effort wanes as soon as people townread them. Reads aren't static; you can change your previous townread to a scumread if you explain yourself properly.

2) You can catch scum through PoE, so arguing about townreads does in fact help you catch scum. Additionally, if you explain your townread on Player A, a Player B who is scumreading Player A is more likely to consider another avenue of option, and scumread someone correctly. Therefore even if your personal scumhunting efficiency decreases a little, you're improving the collective town's scumhunting efficiency (assuming Player B is also town, I suppose). So if you die, this might, you know, be helpful. They might not listen to you, but then that's their fault for being stubborn, not your fault for not even trying to convince them otherwise.

3) Sure, if you defend someone who's not good at defending themselves, they could be a potential mislynch later when you're not around. Alternatively, if you don't defend them, they're a mislynch right now. I'll take a potential mislynch over a definite mislynch any day of the week.

Additionally, if all townies out their townreads, then for scum to blend in, they have to out townreads as well. This firstly increases the amount of fake content they need to generate, and secondly, it cuts down on mislynch options for them. Yes, you can change townreads to scumreads, but for scum to do that, they now have to BS more stuff than if they just had to case somebody who they weren't previously townreading.

EDIT: wow this post was long probably nobody will read all my effort now I know how Skypal feels :( :( :(

Dorian White

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #891 on: September 19, 2014, 12:00:28 AM »
I'm not sure I can be a low effort soft drink~. I'm already a hallucinogenic drug, so!
No, you aren't. You are still ?the girl with the sun in her eyes?.^^

Honestly, you can think of Lucys way to play what you want and I'm not too fund of it either but I still prefer her bare-bones style over things like Schezos ?easy come, easy go?, no offense but that's just bloody pretentious, or Dans ?I can't be bothered to read the game? stuff.
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Shadoweh

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #892 on: September 19, 2014, 12:01:10 AM »
Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum.
You know, Lexi is totally capable of being friendly and helpfully explaining things to people like you, to help you townread her better.
Specifically, whenever she has a Scum role pm. Kind of like when you lynched me because Bard was more logical, you should consider that townies have more reason not to care about appealing directly to you.

Geez you guys concentrating on the play. I'd like to congratulate Lexicat for making it through an entire mafia game without getting banned from MOTK!  :toot:


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #893 on: September 19, 2014, 01:45:22 AM »
shadoweh posting here reminds me that it was a simpler time when shadoweh was playing games

Then ideas like "we should policy lynch dan to make him contribute" wouldn't exist, since everyone would be distracted by another favorite pastime.

Don't lynch me.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #894 on: September 19, 2014, 05:33:21 AM »
I would go for a D1 Dan lynch over a D1 Shadoweh lynch every time.

gg town & get rekt bard

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #895 on: September 19, 2014, 05:43:38 AM »
also imo the biggest problem with LLD's playstyle is that if you're not on scum at critical junctures (or apparently sometimes even when you are!) then lategame you become a total unknown at best or a distraction at worst.

re: outing townreads: i think it's a waste of space unless they're a serious lynch candidate but i'm reminded of the sf game where i went "Shinori is town wait actually I had no reason to point that out I just wanted to be smug postgame when I wasn't wrong" that was funny
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 05:45:18 AM by Prims »

Lexicat

  • Cat in a Rage
  • Who am I again?
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #896 on: September 19, 2014, 06:17:51 AM »
also imo the biggest problem with LLD's playstyle is that if you're not on scum at critical junctures (or apparently sometimes even when you are!) then lategame you become a total unknown at best or a distraction at worst.

re: outing townreads: i think it's a waste of space unless they're a serious lynch candidate but i'm reminded of the sf game where i went "Shinori is town wait actually I had no reason to point that out I just wanted to be smug postgame when I wasn't wrong" that was funny

I have already admitted to this much in the game. If I'm very very wrong about things, I tend to be more forthcoming with information and reads because there is a larger necessity to be seen as town? Being mislynched is as a townie, so.

Shadoweh

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Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #897 on: September 19, 2014, 10:48:02 AM »
I would have played in this game if signups hadn't closed before I posted :<


Kitten4u: "I'll say it plainly: THERE IS NO WAY SHADOWEH IS SCUM!" - A Balanced Game of Mafia

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #898 on: September 19, 2014, 12:47:56 PM »
Clearly I invest too much time and effort into this game (mafia, not this specific game).  I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it.  I keep deriding Dan (and Lexi) for their playstyle but it's apparently very effective. 

I've started playing some newbie games over at mafiascum to level up a bit.  In the mean time, I think I'll self-post restrict myself for a bit.  I feel like I lost this game somehow. 

Thanks to Zak for running the game, I've never seen such a light roles game before.  I was vanilla, and I presume Affinity and Lexi were too. 

Bard/logic stuff - I wanted to gambit that you two were in a QT because I thought it was possible.  I don't have the cajones to actually gambit so I tried to float it out in a way that was easier to retract.  In the end, somebody did bite - Moridin said "I thought you had some kind of ability" but I was too focused on what you and Lexi did to properly notice.  After that it became 'I want Lexi to post/explain' and I became focused on that goal instead of catching scum.
This?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59195

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #899 on: September 19, 2014, 06:38:21 PM »
Oh by the way. Relevant to Mafia and town/scum reading.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/23/magazine/dont-blink-the-hazards-of-confidence.html