Author Topic: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)  (Read 108858 times)

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #840 on: September 18, 2014, 05:34:04 PM »
btw re: balance,

This game was very very scumsided.  Very Very scumsided.

Very Very Very scumsided.

Don't lynch me.

ActionDan

  • Teaching old dogs new tricks
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #841 on: September 18, 2014, 05:37:03 PM »
Also major flaw:

If BT had picked one scum / one town, the scum tries to bus one buddy D1,

outs the 2nd D2 for a easy win.

edit:  Even worse flaw.

scum / scum.

Out last buddy D1.  Insta win.

Don't lynch me.

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #842 on: September 18, 2014, 05:38:48 PM »
Scum-Scum lovers?
Scumteam gets fucked if that happens :V

Dan:Based on the fact that it's 12p with 3 scum instead of 13p, and I still figure the only PR may have been BT (skypal kinda sounded like he might have had one?), I can see where you're coming from. The lovers were potentially a pretty strong town power since modconfirmed town and numbers meant lover death didn't make lylo come any sooner, though. However, the lovers were a very -swingy- town power. If it was scum-town, then oh shit, you effectively just made another scum team member. I think they would have had to lynch the other two scum before lylo themselves, which may have actually made it not so bad, but i'unno?

Scum/town lovers is that hilarious offchance that never actually happens but would be world-changing if it did.

Dan:I imagine they'd still have to kill all the townies for obvious balance reasons.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Dorian White

  • The most handsome non-vampire diplomat you ever encountered ~
  • With a Gandalf like evolution.
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #843 on: September 18, 2014, 05:45:29 PM »
Ohhhhhh YES!
We managed to do what I thought would be almost impossible.^.^/ ~* tackle glomps Serela *~

CF7 X Dorian X Serela Lover QT

@BT: I'll read the graveyard later but the question  that I want answert first is:
Quote from: Lover QT
?You win when all threats to town have been eliminated and both of you are alive?
Wait, we need to be alive and can't win postmortem like common town? OK, we are fucked anyway.^^;;
Were you aware that you turned us into de focto survivors?
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #844 on: September 18, 2014, 05:46:33 PM »
Yeah i think the stigma against LLD's play is too much.  Her playstyle may be null but it was short and to the point and quite logical.  Also, her votes were rather townie as well this game and it was quite distressing to be fried by sky for not entertaining his view completely.

Speaking of sky, I'm not really comfortable playing with him in future games.  He screeches walls the moment someone votes/suspects him (Dorian, LLD, me), and has a 'why aren't you listening to me!' indignance which is blood-pumping and distracting, especially when he repeats things people reject over again.  I appreciate his pro-town sentiment but, I don't know, much of it seems selfish and based on wrong premises.  When he says that 'I don't want to lose another submarine to team bard' it betrays where he is coming from.

schezo got lynched for not playing i guess.  if he had chipped in a few words we probably would have switched somewhere else.

re: setup: yeah i think investigative roles are needed in the setup to counter such shenanigans.  but don't the lovers become suvivors?

Serela

  • Moon Tiara Magic
  • VIA PIZZA SLINGING
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #845 on: September 18, 2014, 05:49:48 PM »
I think SkyPal needs a hydra partner to keep him in check until he can calm down his mafia play a bit, he's kinda consistently a... thing
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #846 on: September 18, 2014, 06:01:40 PM »
Quote from: Dorion
Ohhhhhh YES!
We managed to do what I thought would be almost impossible.^.^/ ~* tackle glomps Serela *~
Really should have hit you instead of ActionDan. Thought you were a more likely mislynch than ActionDan. Opps.

@mod
If I lynched night killed Dorion, does that mean Serala dies? Or stays alive and loses even if TOWN wins?

Quote from: Serala
Unfortunately for Moridin, his grave was pretty much dug after it turns out I was confirmed town, eliminating a mislynch he direly needed. Sure, LLD was almost lynched today, but it'd be craaaaaazy if Moridin didn't take the bullet the next day.
Yeah I got very relaxed after that. Almost felt like eating popcorn while reading the thread.

Quote from: Serala
I think SkyPal needs a hydra partner to keep him in check until he can calm down his mafia play a bit, he's kinda consistently a... thing
He's become a little... crazy with his Mafia play over the last few months.

MAFIA QT

And for people who don't read these things. 
Quote
I really wish you guys (assuming the game is over and everyone is reading this) would have not jerked me around all game.

- Sky_Paladin: Lexicat is so scummy why doesn't anyone want to lynch her? Moridin is also so scummy I should lynch him... but Lexicat... ARGH, WHY CAN'T YOU BOTH BE MAFIA DAMMIT?
- Dorion: I am willing to lynch Moridin. I'm not going to, but I am totally willing. I'M PREPARED TO LYNCH AT ANYTIME... just not right now
-  Lexicat: Voting for Moridin... wait Sky_Paladin just questioned me, I'm going to vote for him... oh wait now I'm going to vote for CF7... no wait Just. Now I'm going to vote for Moridin... no wait Dorion... no wait Moridin... no wait Serala... no wait she just claimed lovers. Hah, I knew it was Moridin all the time fuckers!
- Affinity: Moridin is so town guys, he's just an idiot so be nice. Really, tots TOWN. Wait, what's that offhand comment I see over there? HE MUST BE MAFIA LYNCH HIM! Oh no nevermind, changed my mind Serala it is.
Serala: Moridin feels town ... yup Moridin still feels TOWN... I want to believe Moridin is town ... ARGH HE'S MAFIA, WHY DO I ALWAYS BELIEVE IN THESE GUYS?
Seriously guys :/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:10:16 PM by Moridin »

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #847 on: September 18, 2014, 06:08:16 PM »
>_> it's true.  unhealthy town paranoia

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #848 on: September 18, 2014, 06:19:15 PM »
Were you aware that you turned us into de focto survivors?
My role was literally "you must turn two people into lovers on N0" where the 'also survivors' part wasn't said or implied unless I missed it. If Zak won't post the PM then I will.

As for balance, I think this game was close enough to pure vanilla (aside from apparently unpredictable and swingy lovers shenanigans) to warrant comparisons to Mountainous. Mountainous is 11v2 and this was 9v3. Even with the advent of some roles (something that always adds information of some sort to the game), I'd say the setup was kinda scum-sided.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:25:47 PM by BT »

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #849 on: September 18, 2014, 06:25:27 PM »
It's very difficult to pretend to be TOWN when I have never played as TOWN in shrine mafia. Especially when TOWN players refuse to explain what is so MAFIA about your play so you can stop doing it!

Still, reading the graveyard and lovers QTs, I wasn't as obv. MAFIA as people were suggesting in the thread.

Also? I'm really sad my joke in N2 didn't go down well. Still think it was good :(

Dorian White

  • The most handsome non-vampire diplomat you ever encountered ~
  • With a Gandalf like evolution.
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #850 on: September 18, 2014, 06:31:26 PM »
If I lynched night killed Dorion, does that mean Serala dies? Or stays alive and loses even if TOWN wins?
He would have died too AND lost no matter if town wins or not. And if you had killed me then he would have died too but we could have won with town at least, I guess , Zakeri was kinda vague about that.

Honestly, your mistake was to go back to your SK way to play. I know it's hard to get into a new game environment and then get anti-town roles two times in a row.
Don't take it too hart, you played ?the newbie? good enough to give me a hard time and you interact with your buddies in a way that only PoE could give you away.
Maybe you get better luck next time.

PS: your joke would have been a lot better if you would have ended it with ... BLOOD FOR THE BOODGOD!
But that may just be my opinion.
Bella gerant alii, tu felix Gensokyo nube. Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #851 on: September 18, 2014, 06:34:00 PM »
Moridin, you were probably given leeway in this game because you're still new and unpredictable, not because your play was town-looking. Sticking to distant logic games (lynching ActionDan for weak connection evidence), not taking part in town squabbling and the underwhelming night posts are three things I remember reading from you that are scummy.

As for Sky, it's not like he changed his playstyle from past games or anything, he just added a layer of condescending "why am I the only sane townie" as far as I'm aware.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #852 on: September 18, 2014, 06:37:44 PM »
Some constructive criticism for Sky Paladin (and it's good advice for others I guess): This post (#752) was a pretty good post. It's short and to the point, and I could easily understand what you were trying to say at a single glance. In contrast, when something like post #649 takes up nearly three times my screen size, you should be aware that nobody is going to bother with that.

Keep your posts short and you will drastically improve the chances of people actually looking at what you post.

edit: thinking about it, screen size works as a quick and easy measurement of how long posts should be ;v
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 06:41:37 PM by Polaris »

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #853 on: September 18, 2014, 06:40:35 PM »
It's very difficult to pretend to be TOWN when I have never played as TOWN in shrine mafia. Especially when TOWN players refuse to explain what is so MAFIA about your play so you can stop doing it!
now to roll mafia 7 more times in a row

And yes I gave up and am sorry for fucking you all.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #854 on: September 18, 2014, 07:06:25 PM »
This post is a shoutout to all the times Serela referred to a LLD/Sky/Affinity LYLO like he didn't think Moridin would flip scum.

Serela why are you so scummy as confirmed not!mafia? :V

(well played town)


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
  • *
  • I don't bite... much.
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #855 on: September 18, 2014, 07:26:22 PM »
This game was certainly interesting to read.

Lexicat

  • Cat in a Rage
  • Who am I again?
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #856 on: September 18, 2014, 07:37:56 PM »
Weeeeee 3/3.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #857 on: September 18, 2014, 07:52:08 PM »
I guess I was explicitly not invited to the graveyard.

hmmmpf.

Schezo got lynched for reasons I still do not understand.
...wait, why does the pm say that I sent the message to myself?
I'm sorry, I was pretty certain I sent it to you at the time, so when you said "Mistake" all I could say was "No, it's not a mistake." Sorry.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #858 on: September 18, 2014, 08:08:18 PM »
Re: Lovers
my first stance with Lover's win condition is just adding a survivor condition on top of their own win condition, with town/scum being a survivor pair in itself. I realize I should put more thought into it now than just that - scum/scum pairing would be fucked because it would only take two lynches for town to route them and they would get no benefit.
Scum/town would be in a weird position, too, because if they can get one scum lynched that isn't their pairing, they could just out the final scum, lynch them, and win as survivor with town. I think in a future game, I would change that so town/scum pairing would be a serial killer pair that have limited control of the nightkill until both non-lover scum are dead. They would still be able to win with scum.

in all cases, both lovers died, because that's what lovers are, they die together. It didn't happen in this game, but town/town pairing was fairly balanced because it allowed for a mason quicktopic without the overpowered benefit mason has where killing one of them mod-confirms the other surviving mason (Because there is no surviving lover).

This game was basically psuedo11 player vanilla, which BT called out immediately after seeing Raikaria complain about how scum had no abilities.

Lexicat

  • Cat in a Rage
  • Who am I again?
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #859 on: September 18, 2014, 08:13:17 PM »
I don't know what you''re talking about Zakeri. I'm clearly a TurboCopVigilanteJOATDoctorTracker!

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #860 on: September 18, 2014, 08:14:18 PM »
I don't know what you''re talking about Zakeri. I'm clearly a TurboCopVigilanteJOATDoctorTracker!

I can only account for the roles I gave, not the ones you receive.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 08:16:22 PM by Turnover Zakeri »

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #861 on: September 18, 2014, 08:34:22 PM »
I'll post the PM, then. ::)

You are the Scientists of Love Lab.

As a Scientist, the core output of your laboratories is of course the studies of love. You have already researched the chemicals the produce love, as well as observed how they combine to form a powerful reaction. Even though the presence of the Mafia requires the town's full attention, you must fulfill your research quota, and thus to combine your work efforts, you must use a love potion on two members of the game so you may observe how they deal with the stress together.
During the confirmation stage, you must send in the names of two players in the game. Those two players will become lovers, and will both be removed from the game if one of them is lynched or killed.

You win when all threats to town have been removed.
When I asked Zak about what information the targets get and other things, he immediately shot me down. I don't have an opinion on this - I'm just sharing.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #862 on: September 18, 2014, 08:46:49 PM »
I think the Loverising was Town-minded, due to Town/Town generating a duo that was mod-confirmed to each other and them dying had no effect on the amount of mislynches/NKs needed to lose/win respectively. A Town/Scum duo might seem like a fourth Scum, but it also introduces a fourth person who could be detected as Scum and whose lynch would cause the collapse of half the Scum Team (if you count the Townie as honourary Scum). Scum/Scum means Town gets two for the price of one and is profitable any way you slice it; and if they are survivor lovers who can win by eliminating the last Scum, they just NK the other Scum and win the game.

This marks the last game in which I am unwilling to vote my scum buddies period, because trying to invent cause to stay off of Raikaria clearly has done me no favours.

Sky_Paladin, I meant it when I said I didn't read your posts, they are too verbose. I also hold that you should never arm yourself with the logic you did to lynch me: while the conclusion (Bard is Scum) was correct, the entire premises was flawed to the extreme, and in that respect there is no gloating appropriate from your side for correctly lynching me. After all, you arrived at it by pure chance and coincidence. In Mafia, you lynch who you think is Scum; you don't propose someone is Scum and then lynch other people based on an untested hypothesis.

It was frustrating when you argued "Bard is arguing against me instead of people who want to lynch me" as a case for Lexicat = Bard's scumbuddy, because again, you used the Lexicat case to vote me. Like Serela diagnosed, it was such a backwards method of getting on a Scum wagon it lost all credibility that you were bussing me. That should set off warning signs─if even Serela thinks your case is ridiculous, it merits a strong reconsideration of tactics.


I still hold that asking people, "Are you Scum?" (or equivalent) and pretending the answer to that is any indication is stupid. Your play is too focused on 'GOTCHA!' methods, and so far your 'GOTCHA!' methods never once resulted in an actual 'gotcha'. Just accidents that arrive at the right conclusion through arcane, Cirno-esque ways.



Outside of that, LSD was actually playing really Town, I'm baffled people thought she was Scum.

On roles: Scum only had the Night Talker, Town had BT's role and the pile of useless that is Schezo's role.


Final note: This game has had too many people misspelling names, so for all my sanity:

MORIDIN is spelt thusly. No other way exists.
DORIAN should always include an A after I, not an O.
SERELA only has one A.

Lexicat

  • Cat in a Rage
  • Who am I again?
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #863 on: September 18, 2014, 08:52:49 PM »
Yo I was the towniest townie there was, :3

SB

  • You are good people
  • Even Dormio
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #864 on: September 18, 2014, 08:53:15 PM »
Any benefit town might've gotten from having more scum to find is overshadowed by the fact there would be a 4 scum voting block and if they wanted they could just refused to vote one another and made it so that almost the entire town had to band together to lynch scum day 1 (considering that they needed 7 votes for that.)

That said gj town for an almost perfect victory. I would've argued against the Schezo lynch because I didn't see scum having a functional vanilla as their last power role, but uh... they did, so.

BT

  • I never talk to you
  • *
  • People say that I should
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #865 on: September 18, 2014, 08:59:55 PM »
This marks the last game in which I am unwilling to vote my scum buddies period, because trying to invent cause to stay off of Raikaria clearly has done me no favours.
It hasn't done you favors since you presented ample reasons to think Raikaria is scum yet found ways to avoid voting him, which was pretty scummy. It's not the same as, say, going for a "Raikaria is Raikaria" meta defense which probably would have implicated you much less. Y'know, this wasn't the only component that led to your lynch. Avoiding bussing your buddies is still pretty much advised.

Just gonna back you up on the misspelling part because it bothers the heck out of me too. Learn your names, people.

O4rfish

  • something seems fishy
  • paranoia 4 lyfe
    • Ask an Oarfish!
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #866 on: September 18, 2014, 09:05:16 PM »
Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!
[9:49:09] <Purvis> Generally not, but your mother may be an exception.

Bardiche

  • Mafia: Worst Game Ever
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #867 on: September 18, 2014, 09:09:16 PM »
It hasn't done you favors since you presented ample reasons to think Raikaria is scum yet found ways to avoid voting him, which was pretty scummy. It's not the same as, say, going for a "Raikaria is Raikaria" meta defense which probably would have implicated you much less. Y'know, this wasn't the only component that led to your lynch. Avoiding bussing your buddies is still pretty much advised.

Just gonna back you up on the misspelling part because it bothers the heck out of me too. Learn your names, people.

Yeah, I recognised it was a mistake to raise concerns with Raikaria. My play's been pretty crappy this game, but I also think it's too difficult to excuse behaviours based on meta defences and off-hand dismissing. Maybe I do that normally but that's a blind-side, not conscious dismissal (except in some cases where I read posts and then refuse to read).

Lexicat, the new ActionDan Zero Effort soft drink!

There's a difference between putting effort into discussing who you think is Scum (without saying way) and not posting at all unless you're at L-2. In fact, I propose we policy vote ActionDan to L-1 every game and lynch him if that is insufficient to get him to post content. It clearly worked this game.

Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #868 on: September 18, 2014, 09:21:56 PM »
Quote from: Schezo
now to roll mafia 7 more times in a row
First 5 times I played The Resistance I was a Spy. The 6th time I was Resistance and then the 7th I was a Spy again. No joke.

That was actually hilarious though.

Weeeeee 3/3.
I'd give you a pad on the head... if you didn't charge out of Day 4 voting for Serala.

BigBangMeteor

  • 60% of the time, I win every time
Re: Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)
« Reply #869 on: September 18, 2014, 09:37:19 PM »
LLD, your mafia playing style objectively sucks, sorry.

One way of seeing whether or not a playing style is good is if everyone follows it. If everyone in the game played like you, town would have lost.