Night of the Vampire Mafia: Happily Ever After

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

In other words, you want to take control of the lynch with four players chosen by yourself.
And I really don't like the wording in "We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch." Isn't that what you should be doing anyway?

I'd be more worried about people that agree to this, methinks.

[UncertainJakutten]

Yes, but it's clear this town doesn't seem good at that "compromise" part. Half of it seems bad at keeping us updated on their reads. So I'm reducing the number of people that matter to my town reads. I want to see what they say about this. We need leadership, and since no one else is stepping up, I'll do it.

If it helps any I mostly think you're town Dormio, I just don't trust your reads enough to put you in the block.

@Bard: I'm proposing it now to you all. I want to see their opinions.

[capt. h]

You know UK, If you had said "post 89 in the town spoilers section" instead of just linking to the first page of the thread it might have been easier to see where you were coming from. In the first 2 and a half pages he talks a lot about setup, and how 50/50 chance of winning means instant town death. Also about town unity.

[UncertainJakutten]

Sorry about that, I was running DnD when I linked, so I didn't really have time to ferret through the thread. I would have gotten the precise post otherwise.

[capt. h]

Not a quicklynch. Just I want to see votes on Chaore. The go go go is more me being manic because I feel like I can have some fun now.

That said, my Voting Block idea is that everyone in the voting block assumes town on each other (subject to revocation for obvscumminess, of course). We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch. After enough arguing we figure out who we want lynched, and pile our four votes on them. And then the other votes just fall on because ~*~everyone wants to be with the townies~*~. Consider it an oligarchy. It's a technique to lead a desperately unlead town. We should NEVER have had two non majority lynches in a row. So I'm fixing that now. Why I didn't propose this at the start of the day was mostly because I was weighing how much the recruit would affect things among my town reads. The posting I've seen today does not really disturb me though. That sound a bit better?

Every single game we should do this.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

capt. h: I think you're bad and you should feel bad for suggesting that.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I'm not sure I feel comfortable with Bard being a part of the block. Would need to finish re-reading to be sure.

Aside from that, the strategy itself seems reasonable, but it also seems like something that would be very alienating to people outside the block. Something that demotivates townies is not entirely working towards our best interest. I would definitely be against us doing this every single game, but considering how fucked up town is right now, I wouldn't oppose it for our current situation.

I've been trying to read the thread and write a post for a long time but my brain is kind of shut off right now, and I don't feel I can get a clear read on anybody at all. Ugh.

[capt. h]

capt. h: I think you're bad and you should feel bad for suggesting that.

Wait, sorry, I misread.

That said, my Voting Block idea is that everyone in the voting block assumes town on each other (subject to revocation for obvscumminess, of course). We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch. After enough arguing we figure out who we want lynched, and pile our four votes on them. And then the other votes just fall on because ~*~everyone wants to be with the townies~*~. Consider it an oligarchy. It's a technique to lead a desperately unlead town. We should NEVER have had two non majority lynches in a row. So I'm fixing that now. Why I didn't propose this at the start of the day was mostly because I was weighing how much the recruit would affect things among my town reads. The posting I've seen today does not really disturb me though. That sound a bit better?

Fixed. I agree with the plan now.

[WHMZakeri]

By vote blocking, UK means that we just all agree to assume everyone else in the group is town, and then work together to root through the other players. It's sort of like agreeing to Hydra except you're doing it after the game starts and naturally, you can only do it with other players in other player slots. The intention of which is to create a group that acts like a Masonry, except without the confirmed town or the private quicktopic.

I don't think Lynching Chaore would be the right way to go today. In fact, considering that the day started with everyone jumping onto his quick unvote as the sole reason he's scum, and nobody jumping off despite him explaining everything he was held up to, I would say that ending the day with a Chaore lynch would be a bad idea even if he was scum. The thing is: Even if we do lynch him, what do we get out of it? If he flips scum, there won't be too many links to be found in the previous days, except to maybe Kiro, which would get us nowhere. If he flips town, then we're set back all the way to midday 2 in terms of scumreads. In fact, I'd wager that some scum have jumped onto the Chaore wagon for this express purpose.

Cut: Dormio The thing about vote blocking is that this is how town is ideally suppose to be working in the first place. If we keep to a small group, and keep it organized, then we basically turn into a miniature town group. The major downside to this would be if two scum are hiding in the group, and with recruitment that chance is slightly larger than I would prefer.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Dormio: I don't think you understand the power of alliance.

@HW: You're pretty much right. Doing it every game would be pretty terrible and encourage elitism. Further, it'd have less impact because the scum would be expecting it. As it stands, I feel I'm pretty much blindsiding them with this, so we should get initiative back in several ways. And we DESPERATELY need initiative. Just for the sake of argument, what are your objections to Bard?

@capt. h: You're right, we should do that every game without the pretentiousness of a TOWN ALLIANCE VOTING BLOCK. That said, does it look like we're doing that? FUCK NO. So, since no one else seems interested in guiding us to a town win, I'll take the reins. And me taking the reins means I'm going to impose one of my scumhunting tools on everyone. I would hope that those I named will see the benefit of this technique.

@Zak: Since the scum have already recruited, how do you feel about the behavior of those I listed? Secondly, who do you propose as a not Chaore lynch?

[Conqueror]

@Conqueror: I apologize for not being able to write up an adequate post at 3 in the morning, after losing previous post twice. I wasn't about to bring that up as frankly I can prove it as well as you can prove I am lying, but It's the basis of your case and I'm adressing it, seems. Oh, and how about Capt. H and Hourai, Hourai who did mostly the same thing with a vote on me when absolutely no one expressed interest in lynching me, and Capt. H who stuck his vote on Schezo and -was- there to decide not to be on the wagons? This is the exact same thing you are saying I am scum for, you have expressed no suspicions towards either of them, and infact both of them had their votes on people who were never actual wagons when they were voting. So this leaves the main decider being the Kiro wagon switch. So you've basically come out after a long line of people have come down on me for that, and are taking advantage of this along with my inactiveness to make it look like you have a legit case on me. Interesting.

Congrats on boiling my entire case down to the part I stated was a null tell. Misrep me more, kthanks.
You're right, Hourai is similar to you, but I liked his Day 2 content better than yours. :dwi:
Nice deflection though.
capt. h I am ignoring because he is getting himself modkilled.

As for UK, I don't like the implication of the players that you've chosen for this so-called "voting block" of yours. I came here to play a game, not a popularity contest. If this is how the rest of this game is going to go, then count me out.

Nice to see people are showing up just to comment on the voting block and say nothing else. Jeebus.

Oh, and I'm human.

[UncertainJakutten]

It's not a popularity contest. It's "these people are bleeding fucking town, so I trust them" thing. I still expect everyone else to contribute.

[Conqueror]

Fuck this initiative argument. Maybe if you people would fucking post, this town would have some initiative. But nooooooo, you all have to lurk lurk lurk lurk.

Fucking.

@UK, that's not what you said to Dormio, is it? I also have another comment I want to make, but I'm not going to say it because it would make this thread all pissy. I'm going to go take a break from this thread for a while.

[Bardiche]

On the outside, it looks like UK's proposing that four people agree they are all town, and work together to lynch a target they agree on. Rather than accuse eachother or try to discern whether the others are scum, they simply agree to take all words at face-value and vote collectively, so that Town can either make a counter-wagon or go with the rest of the group. It is likely that members of said bucket group would be influenced by the outside anyway, but they could argue among eachother if they trust people.

Sadly I don't trust Shadoweh and find no reason to be a member of the UK voting alliance.

I intend to vote Chaore to L-1 shortly. The day is miring, we're not getting anywhere and ragefests are being devolved. I want to see Shadoweh hang but if I can convince none of it then I am equally fine to see Chaore go.

Chaore, consider this my request for you to claim, because when Capt H is modkilled, that means L-1 is hammer.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@HW: You're pretty much right. Doing it every game would be pretty terrible and encourage elitism. Further, it'd have less impact because the scum would be expecting it. As it stands, I feel I'm pretty much blindsiding them with this, so we should get initiative back in several ways. And we DESPERATELY need initiative. Just for the sake of argument, what are your objections to Bard?

"I have a negative gut read on him"

More specifically, the way he pushed the Shadoweh case during late D2, and the way he recently picked it up. I'm not sure what irked me about them in specific and was planning to figure out why the hell my gut is acting up after a re-read, but considering that my brain isn't working right now, I don't know. I'll try to get back to you on this. I also just... don't really understand why people are clearing him as town now. His posting was solid on D1 and I thought he was town then too, but afterwards I felt like his prominence kind of dissipated. This is going by memory. I think Hourai would maybe be a better choice? @_@ Although, I don't think you'd accept that coming from me since you said he had some weirdness going on with me (though I'm not too sure what that was referring to).

I think I may be biased about Bard since I'm fairly confident Shadoweh is town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Him putting Chaore at L-1 halfway into the day when some people (SUCH AS MYSELF, I SWEAR I'M GETTING TO IT asdf) haven't posted their full opinions yet kind of confirms my negative gut read.

[UncertainJakutten]

Part of "bleeding town" is making sense and generally having good reads. That said, yes, I'm biased towards the "better" players because I don't really want to make the block bigger than four. The risk of throwing a scum in there by accident naturally increases with whoever I add, so people I have as "probably town" need to be left out, particularly if their rhetoric (HEY ZAK I'M USING THE WORD RIGHT NOW) isn't that great.

My apologies if this irritates you. You and K4U would be my fifth if I wanted one, though rereading, so far I'm not getting anything conclusive either way so I'm kind of wondering if I was a bit hasty in my obvtown read. That said, I'm still reading. It's hard to pull things from K4U because of her unfortunate circumstances (I don't mean this in any critical way. I understand stuff happens)

@Bard: I suppose I can't push you, now can I. Admittedly, that reaction makes me want you MORE in the alliance...just I really, really, do not want Shadoweh lynched.

@Zak, Shadoweh: I don't like trying to do this with three, but it can still work. How do you feel?

@HW: I'm getting weird vibes from Hourai in my reread. Not necessary "SCUM FOREVER" reads, but bad enough so I'm not sure I'd want him as a fourth. As for Bard, I actually don't mind taking care of the claim threat early, partially because he's already half claimed, and partially because it denies Chaore scum the chance to confuse things right before deadline. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a lynch with so many hours left in the day. I'd normally be completely opposed but...uh...look where delaying has gotten us so far.

[WHMZakeri]

Fuck you, Bardiche.

UK: I'll get back to your question in a few hours, I'm still reading. It's not progressed very far due to my affinity for procrastination, and the fact that the thread you posted was an inspiring goldmine of how to find scum. Regardless, I'd be willing to join if I find at least two of the others town in my reread.

Also, don't worry all you peeps who feel cheated at not being included. Just write a letter to your state representative (that is, the one who best represents your statement on the matters). I still intend to listen to people outside of the circle should we make one.

rhetoric

:getdown:

[Bardiche]

Him putting Chaore at L-1 halfway into the day when some people (SUCH AS MYSELF, I SWEAR I'M GETTING TO IT asdf) haven't posted their full opinions yet kind of confirms my negative gut read.

It's precisely because people are sitting around twiddling their goddamn thumbs for nearly 24 hours if not more that I think we should get this fucking lynch going, because no one looks at anything else and the ones not on Chaore are content not saying much if anything about Chaore.

[Shadoweh]

oh boy a voting block on me that sounds like fun! That 's what I suggested yesterday anyways. I'm not violently opposed to this but I don't trust Bard FOR SOME REASON. I dislike how you still want to disregard both the lynches so far for not being readable just because they were two short from majority. I'm

Bard go away. It's great that you don't feel the need to address my questions and voted with that case from before. I don't think anyone would have accepted you not being here at the time since you were clearly here and rereading. You even agree with a Schezo case so what the hell Bard? You pointed out things you disliked about huh what and Kiro both. Do you still think huh what is scummy yes or no?  I'd prefer not to even consider lynching until capt.h dies anyways for reasons that should be obvious if you've been paying attention. Can we quicklynch Dormio since he can't be bothered to make a not-town case today? I AM TOTALLY FEELING THE ANTI-TOWN VIBES and going back to sleep again because STOP CUTTING ME

ALSO IF YOU DIDN'T NOTICE I AM STILL HUMAN JEALOUSY

Cut by what the hell are you suggesting Bard, no, NO we are not having a hammer halfway through the day. Especially not after a kill that should in theory put us in Mylo if Kiro wasn't scum. It would clear up alot of this argument wouldn't it?

huh what that is not opinions please continue trying to have some thanks. DORMIO GET ON THIS TOO. You feel so god damn tag along today. Willing to lynch Schezo or huh what right now, increasingly wanting to lynch Bard because oh my god he sucks today, if we're not in MYLO happy to lynch Chaore. If we do drop to MYLO then fuck no.

[WHMZakeri]

It's precisely because people are sitting around twiddling their goddamn thumbs for nearly 24 hours if not more that I think we should get this fucking lynch going, because no one looks at anything else and the ones not on Chaore are content not saying much if anything about Chaore.

There are only two groups of people who are content with not saying much of anything on Chaore
1. Scum
2. demotivated townies.

Do you want to encourage either of those groups?

Shadoweh: plz don be angwy :ohdear:

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

##Vote Bardiche
You're doing this right after UK just proposed a new method of attack that could potentially give the town significantly more initiative. We have not yet fully discussed her proposition, and one person who was considered for a member of the townie block has not yet even responded. Additionally, if the townie block is created, then it would have a chance to approach rest of the D3 in a different manner and possibly even start making people look in directions other than Chaore. We're definitely not done with the day phase.

My immediate reaction is to think that you're scum trying to cut discussion short because this concept greatly benifits town. Ending the day early would give scum a chance to off a block member before the concept is fully discussed, too.


Cut by people. Eh. Shadoweh, I have an incomplete post but it was mostly just Kiro opinions and waffling and I was about to axe it forever and pretend it didn't exist. I could maybe post that before I actually do my re-read if it helps, but I doubt it. <_<

[Bardiche]

Yes, Shadoweh, clearly I am putting in less effort today because I became so incredibly motivated by not getting a real lynch since the start of the game, more lurks than I can count on one hand AND people abusing the lynching mechanic to derail a bandwagon twenty minutes before deadline not because PX was strongly Scum or anything but BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO PRESERVE A WATCHER BEFORE ANYTHING, with the naive idea that scum would be TOTALLY COOL with Kiro surviving as a Town Watcher.



Oh okay, call me back when you're done discussing game mechanics, setups and strategies and are ready to hunt scums.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

People aren't going to even consider using the rest of the day to hunt scum if the rest of the day doesn't exist.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Shadoweh: I disregard the wagons as not readable not because they weren't majority lynches, but because the switches were mostly the same people trying to make sure a lynch happened. Preferably a majority one. It doesn't really have an intent either way, just a desire to make an decisive lynch.

You bring up hugely good points I didn't consider re: the fact we are told when it is MYLO. Though, why would it be MYLO with capt. h.'s modkill? We currently have 11 alive. capt. h. kill makes 10. Lynch makes 9. NK makes 8, and if there is an SK kill and no same targetting/scum killing, that would be 7. Which would still be 3:1:3, which technically isn't a losing situation (even though it practically is). But in that case, would we even get a mylo warning? So assuming no SK and no Kiro scum, we'll be in 3:5 tomorrow. Unless you have a reason to believe my numbers are wrong?

@HW: Hmm.

Also, with 11 alive, how does the capt. h. modkill make L-1 a lynch? Right now it's 11 alive, 6 to lynch. Capt. h. makes 10 alive, 6 to lynch?

[Bardiche]

It's been over 24 hours since the Day began and people like Chaore have still not produced much in the way of "Who are scum". This active lurking does NOT help Town.

UK: dferp i Just listened to capt H. Clearly not a method up for repeat.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

That Chaore reread that I was meant to do yesterday before I became braindead. BECAUSE I'M A POTATO.
Fake Edit: Fuck you Shadoweh, words are hard, okay?

Stop posting everywhere I can see your posts in iso.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to maintain that I read him as town in D1&2, and I'm not confident enough in any telekinetic powers I may or may not have to determine if his alignment changed during N2.
#568: How do you know that Kiro was the watcher? I mean, it's not exactly hard to claim that someone was targetted one night as scum. If nobody claims, town will probably just assume scum targetted them. If somebody does claim, then that just validates stuff, as well as finding out that someone has a PR.
I'm just cycling thoughts through my head. I'm going to reread Chaore again until things make sense, and I'll just leave this here until then.

Speaking of which! Hurraaaaaaiiiiiiiii. I'm forgetting that you're playing, again. Come backkkkkkkkk.
Where's that awesome post with more on others you promised us in #five-six-fiveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
"He has not voiced suspicion outside of PX and Dormio. This is scummy because he's leaving himself to pursue anybody without precedent, and we have no idea what he's going to do."
Hey, hey, guess who that applies to? Only, with regards to Schezo and Chaore instead of PX and I.
So, like, that awesome post would be really nice to see sometime soon.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

In fact, I think I managed to make Kiro scum much more believable to myself there, somehow.
Anyway! Reading! I should be doing that!

[Shadoweh]

Also I feel better today playwise. I feel like it's hard to choose because EVERYONE IS SCUM. Also I do agree we should hammer earlier, like, eight hours earlier so the deadline is around nice playable 1am instead of ungodly morning. Now is not that time. I haven't seen alot of analyzing Chaore's posts from anyone voting him except Conqueror. I also dislike how little you all have to say about Schezo. I got him out here and posting a bunch more content, does it look like scum content or not? Seriously guys.

huh whatty, Kiro is dead, it's more important you let us know how you feel about the other living players right now.

UncertainKitten: If we're at 7-4 right now it will be MYLO with a town!capt.h death. If Kiro was not the scum recruiter I  think it's possible there were three scum to start. It would have given town 4 mislynches originally and given reason for us to be this powerful.

Bard: Okay, so what do you think about Chaore's scum reads and what he thinks of Conqueror and Schezo then?

[Bardiche]

Dormio lights on something I think some people are forgetting: KIRO NEVER FLIPPED AS EITHER TOWN OR WATCHER, SO HE ISN'T PROVEN TO BE EITHER OF THOSE. Any arguments regarding the lynching of Kiro are double-sided as you can't prove lynching PX was to save a Town Watcher or not. Devil's Proof.

Shadoweh asking me to pretend Kiro is Town and think from there is just as silly as asking her to pretend Kiro is Scum and think from there. Using the unflipped body in this manner is further reason I want her dead.


@Shadoweh: Complete and utter bogus, and Scum Opportunism, respectively. Schezo looks like the only possible counter-wagon to Chaore himself at this point, he'd be crazy not to support it. After waiting so long to produce, he could have easily shitted a case on anyone he thought would be an easy wagon.