Night of the Vampire Mafia: Happily Ever After

[Dorian White]

Well call me oldfashioned but I think that's every thing relevant for a game is supposed happened in said game, and since the mods said repeatedly that the game didn't even started yet, am I unable to see anything of relevance so far.

The only thing that could be seen as relevant is the supposed vig shoot but only if Shadoweh indeed flips at the begin of the game. I'm not sure about the actual probability but I think that an arbitrary chosen vig shoot at this time, cause that's what it is form me point of view, will most likely hit town and therefore disadvantage town. Needless to say that I consider such an approach as utterly brain bleeding stupid and I can't even speculate about any reason to do something like this. To be honest I don't even want to know why he did it, if he did it at all. Conclusion/Diagnose: batshit crazy

##Morphine: Bardiche

That's all I'm able and willing to say at the moment. Guten Tag!

[Affinity]

Day One

Traditionally, ever since the Scarlet Devil Mansion appeared suddenly out of red mist one day, the Human Village has been suffering periodically on nights leading up to a red full moon, with many ending up wounded and dead.  Rumors say that the Scarlets turn a villager into one of their kind on the night of such a full moon through occult ceremony, and this time, it seems no different.  With a council of 14 people formed up during a lull in the vampire attacks, the Village aims to catch the Scarlets and their servants disguised among them, and bring them to justice, eerily aware of the fact that they might have to face off with one of their own very very soon...

===

Game officially starts now.  All votes before this post have been rendered void, and you can begin making relevant votes from this post onwards.  Reason I did not want to start the game was because I wanted to make some clarifications to the rules on the first page (which have been done).  Not too happy with PX voting someone while the topic clearly said 'Confirmation Phase', but I suppose the confusion is understandable, due to me being away for such a long time...   

Day One still lasts for 48 hours, and will end on19th June,1400 hrs GMT +0.

[Bardiche]

##Shoot: Shadoweh

So back to this...

##Vote: Dormio

... and this.

[UncertainJakutten]

PX...that says exactly what I said. So, why don't you try again?

All right, so that's how Bard will open.

If I had time now, I'd reread the game, but I desperately need to get work done. Right now I want PX dead, but I think that's at least 50% because he can't read and his condescending attitude about being unable to read is irritating me. The other 50% would be his insistence on posting to say that he wasn't going to react, which is kind of scummy.

This may change pending reread. Why yes, there is a suspicious lack of Bard in my needs to die list .

[Kiro]

Too much noise from all those earlier pages. People trying too hard to accuse the other posters when by my count, 7 people never posted in psuedo pregame.

How much we wanna bet Hourai got the scum role he's always wanted? Don't leave us hanging, fess up doll!

##Vote Hanged Hourai

[Lexicat]

Not voting until Affinity comes around.
 
Still though, this UK wagon is laughable. "SHE'S SCUM BECAUSE SHE KNEW SHADOWEH WAS TOWN~"
 
1) If Shadoweh actually dies, it's almost guaranteed she's town. She was shot without making a single content post. It wasn't based on reads.
 
2) You'll notice that UK left room open for Shadoweh to be scum, buy still advocates Bard's death if Shadoweh dies. I agree with this. Shadoweh dies, regardless of alignment, Bard is lynched.
 
So no, UK isn't getting lynched today. Her reaction to the shot was pure 100% town.
 
However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .
 
If the shot turns out to be fake, I want to lynch Shadoweh. If Shadowehis scum, then so is Bard (due to distancing and Shadoweh's real non-reaction)
 
Shot Real: Bard dies.
Shot Fake: Shadoweh dies.
 
Edit: Vote: Bard
 

[Bardiche]

Kiro! Is there a specific reason you?re voting Hourai? It comes off as a jokevote at this stage, and honestly it's no longer jokevote phase because we're skipping that this game.

Lambdadelta, why is Shadoweh's reaction scummy? What changed between the first line and the last line that you want to vote, and how does Shadoweh scum correlate to Bardiche scum, given the "distancing" would be an act of Shadoweh's to implicate me? I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning. Your post narrows everything immediately to Shadoweh or me for a lynch target, ignoring flips and other people; reason out why a scum flip implicates scumBard, how a town flip implicates scumBard and how no flip implicates scumShadoweh.

No more buzzwords, time to back up your opinion, starting immediately. What about Shadoweh's reaction implies she thinks she won't die, and how is this scummy?

[Shadoweh]

However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .
 

I'm going to be really blunt with you again. Your ALMOST statements are still crap. If you really can't tell how utterly pissed off I was writing those posts then there's something wrong with you. UK's response was not 100% town, however. It's hard to make a judgement on who reacted the scummiest when half the game didn't post, possibly because it hadn't started yet. I cannot be bothered to start a fight that's going to be interupted by my untimely demise so you all can have fun with that.

Bard, since it didn't work the first time, you could at least have looked at what I posted before deciding it was still the right play. Maybe even shot one of the people that reacted, in your opinion, scummily.

[UncertainJakutten]

Ugh, should not be posting since ~*~work~*~ but I should address this. LLD, I get where you're coming from, but for the same reason I rebuffed Dormio, your arguments cannot be used. You are proposing that Bard shot his scumbuddy, *twice* now, to coast to endgame. You are further proposing that he'd do it again after drawing fire the first time, which means it's not worth endgame cred. As Shadoweh said, Bard could easily have reassessed his shot and looked townier for it. Is his shot utterfuckingly pants on head dicktarded still? Yes. Is it scummy? Not conclusive yet. In fact, I'd go as far as saying it's a null tell and will remain such due to circumstances.

Bard might be scum, but his shot won't be what indicts him.

Also, even if Shadoweh is scum, how would her reaction show her to have "known she wasn't going to die"? Please cite this for me, it could be important. The fake shot reasoning isn't as far fetched, though still dangerous and I don't think strong enough to determine the lynch.

I have other thoughts but, again, work.

[Kiro]

Bard: It is a jokevote. I'm not ignoring what happened in Page 2-5 though, rather, just treating it as incomplete. Most of it is predicated on whether Bard's shot is real or not so it's a lot of reactions that can crumble away because some people seemed to earnestly post as if it were real. And even with that, you all tunneled onto each other because you had no choice, almost half of us willingly did not post during all of that. Reaction fishing on just half the player base feels weird, it gives Scum fodder for mislynch cases even if most or all of the people arguing in the beginning are Town.

I guess if there's one thing that struck out the most to me, is Huh What's loaded scenario that let say Bard was modkilled and removed from the game in #64. Where is there any evidence that could happen or even be remotely considered? And UK decided to answer it straight up in #71 and of course, she's limited to considering only people who have currently posted without really questioning why HW would ask something like that. Independently, both the questioner and the responder gave me weird vibes.

[UncertainJakutten]

@Kiro: I felt the intent was townie in asking, because it was phrased in such a way to force people out of tunneling on Bard. I wanted it answered as well, and I figured the best way to GET it answered was to answer it myself. I don't think it was being proposed as "this is going to happen", it was more "This is hypothetical, please answer so we know your not Bard opinions"

And yes, no longer working, though will be running DnD shortly.

[Bardiche]

The scenario was coined by Shadoweh to ask people to not tunnel on one person and instead look at the situation surrounding them, Kiro.

Your words and actions don't match up. You say you're not ignoring what happened in the pre-game, but at the same time you're blatantly posting a jokevote which serves absolutely nothing, despite me repeating my action to ensure its success this time around. Now, however, you point out something that is weird, which happened only after prodding. Why not open the game with that observation? Why did you decide a meaningless jokevote was better than responding to the situation at hand?

##Unvote
##Vote: Kiro

While Dormio's actions are certainly not town-minded, I can't in good faith vote it over your baffling actions, Kiro. Admittance of ignoring whatever's happened so you can jokevote is one thing that raises a frown, as jokevote phase doesn't serve town much when there's something very real to work with... Your secondary action of observing a "weirdness" would be fine, except you lend no opinions to the observation besides "weird". Is weird "scummy"?

[Shadoweh]

Kiro, I disagree with the first part of your post. It doesn't really matter if the shot is real or not. (I'm not getting my hopes up.) The immediate reactions are still valid, especially if the reactions were genuine. I agree that the rest of the group needs to post first but pure probability says at least one scum should have posted during all of that.

*cough*Istolethatscenariofromsomeoneelse*cough*

[Edible]

Okay, NOW You Can Have A Votecount

Hanged Hourai (1) - Kiro
Bardiche (1) - Lady Lambdadelta
Kiro (1) - Bardiche

Not voting - Everyone else

[Bardiche]

... and the gig's up. No, ##Shoot doesn't do anything. I'm not such a jackass I'd shoot someone out of the gates, anyway, Shadoweh.

Now that we've cleared up that ~*magical vig shot*~, Shadoweh, who do you think are scum? Kiro, in light of this news, how does this change your reads on people?

[Shadoweh]

...You're still a jerk. :<

I'll read later when I'm calmed down. I'm still mad at you!

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

##Vote Dormio
Still reading him as scum pushing bad cases rather than derp. I don't really expect this to change. He still needs to answer my question as well. PX indirectly answered it when he switched his vote.

This isn't to say I'm pleased with PX, though. His UK case... doesn't really show me why UK is scum. I've read it, but I really can't see why her actions would be worth a vote at this point, even from what he pointed out. The entire case basically seems overly nitpicky to me, and nitpicking typically provides for weak cases that are not worth much at all. Given that PX gave up his Bardiche case in the same post, I don't think he has provided any believably decent content at this point. I would not mind hanging him if he fails to actually give a good explanation of why UK actually deserves to be lynched more than anybody else for the actions of hers that PX pointed out.

In other news, I'm not sure why Kiro is receiving ire suddenly. His reasons for considering the pre-game null don't really come off as far-fetched to me even though I disagree with him, and I don't actually see scum intent in his choice to wait for a larger pool of analyzable participants before voting. It's one of those "What would scum have to gain from doing this?" things, basically, and I'm taking it as a null tell. I guess that means that replacing in for Omba last game rubbed off on me. I do think he should at least be courteous and attempt to provide a serious vote while we wait for more of the playerbase to post rather than just leaving a jokevote down, however, since he has been prodded by other players for not doing so. It's not like it's entirely impossible that scum posted before the end of the confirmation phase, anyway.

I don't really have anything to say in response to Kiro's point about my hypothetical scenario because UK and Bard already answered that (correctly).

[Kiro]

Well, judging by Bard's latest vote on me, I'll say his shot was a gambit without having to wait for a votecount. Guess I'll cut to the chase which is what I would have done whenever we got mod confirmation that Shadoweh wasn't vigged. Cut by new posts: And yes, that's indeed how it went.

I think UK is most likely to be scum out of the early posters.

UK's thing in #46 is a bit weird. Starts off saying a Scum dayvig could just coast to victory by shooting a buddy. Not going to happen this game. Even if he were Scum, the Night 2 mechanic if successful turns everyone back to neutral reads. Bard could also very well be a Town vig doing whatever he wants, but converted by Day 3. Yet you give him the guilty treatment at the start. Your shortsightedness in this statement surprised me. It highlights an overeagerness to pursue Bard that I really didn't like which you affirm with your red statement in #71. What about now? Also, who you going to vote for now? You missed voting for PX if that was your intent to start the day.

I don't really care if Huh What borrowed a made up scenario someone else made copied from someone else. It's still a weird way to ask and HW copying it makes it seem like a loaded way of saying, "who would you vote for besides Bard?" Feels like a possible "trying too hard to be Townie" sort of a thing. And like I said, UK answered it straight up. She decided to relent right after #62 where she addressed HW and adamantly refused to provide opinions on those not named Bard. UK's giving and taking a little here and it's more of her weird Day 1 play that makes her hard to read as she shifts her reads. Looking at it, she relented because it looks like HW #64, Shadoweh #65 and Zakeri #69 all voiced suspicion at her. And she calls HW level-headed at that point in #71 but derides Zakeri for what I'm reading as something similar to what HW said. A bit of a double standard perhaps.

All of a sudden, I just realized a bunch of people are promoting scumpairs in this early part of the game. UK, Dormio #73, HW #77. WHY?!?!?! Damnit, stick to individual scum reads.  You're all doing it wrong.

I'm going to think about HW's latest post and case a little more while at lunch.

##Unvote Hanged Hourai
##Vote UncertainKitten

[UncertainJakutten]

I've seen it happen before, Kiro. That said, I didn't consider the Night 2 mechanic, which is absolutely true. I really don't see how anything else is scummy. You say "weird" a lot. You don't say where scum intent comes into the picture. Honestly, that makes me feel uneasy about you. Usually your cases are fairly solid and say why someone is SCUM, not that they're weird. I'll admit the Hourai vote bugged me as well, but more in the sense it was distracting from potentially good information, and I feel if there is scum in the active posters before the game started, that move was specifically to defend them. I can't say for certain that's scummy. I can say for certain your case on me is awful, and possibly scum motivated.

I'll place a vote once I've reread, which will be sometime today, possibly this evening.

[Kiro]

UK: Well, let's go back to why you wanted Bard lynched. The only reasoning I see from you is your #43: "Oh, no, it's fine you shot D1. Your target just benefited scum more than town. Ergo, you are scum." Please tell me if that's a troll or serious answer.

Your stance essentially clarifies to a "Bard can still be Scum, but I won't be accusing him solely because of a possible vig gambit." I can read that as a bit of waffling on Bard. What I never really see from you is an explanation on how Bard could be Townie. So it's another straight tunnel by you at the time over a point bordering on paranoia (that a Scum Dayvig would coast). That's where I'm getting the Scum vibe from, that you're too eager to call Bard scum when he could be a Townie vig or a Townie gambiter. And answer for me how Huh What was being level-headed in #64 while Zak was being hilarious in #69.

I call it weird because I can still see you as Townie doing all this. Never seems to change. Still, it's good enough for a Day 1 case for me. I'm not seeing a case on PX as strong as you might be, Dormio's responses have felt Townie enough for me to not pursue now and Bard and Shadoweh have been defined mostly by the gambit which gets me nowhere right now.

Afternoon crunch right now. Mild suspicion on HW remains for me but I'll have to wait till evening to think about it more.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

HW #77

... was sarcastic. I was basically trying to show Dormio how his scenario worked with just about everybody who was voting Bard at that point.

[Kiro]

... was sarcastic. I was basically trying to show Dormio how his scenario worked with just about everybody who was voting Bard at that point.

I take a hammer and break my sarcasm recognition meter every time I play Mafia. My eyes tend to only parse /sarcasm at this point. Next thing I know, UK is going to tell me her #43 was sarcasm as well.

[Shadoweh]

Still feeling blah, but I feel like I should have a vote down at this point.

##Vote: huh what

huh whatty, what's your opinion on Bard's stunt? You seem quite happy to attack everyone for reacting to it without recognizing it yourself. That's really weird coming from you, Mr. Troll Hater. It's also weird that you'd use people voting him for his actions as saying they're coasting, since literally nothing else had happened yet. What else would they be looking at exactly?

I don't know how to explain why UK's responses give me a bad feeling. It's like a lack of caring, if she really believes I'm town I'd think she'd be more upset at me dying like that instead of forgiving Bard so fast. Your posts have a very 'oh well' vibe to them that I dislike.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

What the hell is this Pescar?
I'm out to kill contractors, not make more of them!

Also, freaking hell, 2AM (Well, 1:50 AM) day starts. :/

Try again.

Can't say much but I'm not taking this much seriously until Affinity comes around.

Uh huh.

Hey, Shadoweh, what happened to your UK case that was coming if you weren't dead?

I'm not going to comment further beyond that I hold to my amazing ED1 read of scum UK. If Affinity starts the game and he didn't count the action, ergo Shadoweh still being alive, I'll post more then.

You know, the amazing ED1 read of scum UK.

Speaking of which, I'm still of the opinion that UK is more likely to be scum than not.
In #43, care to explain how it benefits scum more than town?
As well, I still don't like your #46.

@Huh What: What's the question?

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@ Shadoweh: To be frank, there was nothing for me to react to from my point of view. It was fairly obvious he was gambitting and I don't think I could have given a proper analysis of his action in good conscience. I believe my words made it fairly evident that I thought his action was not worth attacking him over, however.

It's pretty obvious that I only expected people to stop coasting after some more content had popped out. At the time I nudged the people voting to give some opinions on players other than Bardiche, there had been a whole 31 posts since the start of Bard's gambit, and I would estimate that at least half of these were serious. There was already a fair amount of content to analyze outside of the vig shot, so the accusations that I attacked people for coasting on the Bardiche case when "literally nothing else had happened yet" are incorrect.

I am not really sure what you are voting me because of, actually. It looks like you're trying to catch me on hypocrisy, only the existance of said hypocrisy is debatable and I am not sure why you would even consider it scummy hypocrisy in the first place. The only other substance to your case is built up on a misrep. This irks me in the same manner that PX's case on UK does.

@ Dormio: See #64. As far as I'm aware, all you did was sidestep the question by implying it was pointless in #66.

[UncertainJakutten]

Explained 43 already. Shadoweh is a more capable player than most of you. There are better D1 no info vigs. Killing Shadoweh was at the least anti town, and DOES benefit scum more than, say, killing PX.

You still haven't reasonably explained why I'm scum. Also, Kiro's elucidation does not fill me with good feelings about him.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

@Huh What: Hardly anybody was talking at that point though. And that was kind of the basis for every argument at that point in time.

@UK: Like I said, you gave me the vibe that you knew that Shadoweh was town with far too much certainty.

Sorry, I'm a bit busy until later today. BABS final today in a couple of hours. After that, I'll be free for a while though.

[Shadoweh]

Hey, Shadoweh, what happened to your UK case that was coming if you weren't dead? You know, the amazing ED1 read of scum UK.

I don't know how you can take 'amazing' and 'ED1' in the same sentence seriously. I've tried to explain why ShoeCat makes me look funny at her. In any case I wasn't talking about making a case. I can honestly say I was not reading half the posts made at the the time.

huh what: Let me help you with the misunderstanding. Every time you say something was obvious, it actually wasn't. I don't feel you've answered my question to my satisfaction, so I'll try a different one. What do you think of Bard now? Do you find him more town or scum for his gambit and the way he handled his questionings? I'm also wondering what this other content you're referencing was. It's entirely possible I missed it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Bardiche's actual gambit is a null tell, in my opinion. I do, however, believe that town is slightly more likely to attempt to end the RVS than scum, since scum have to draw attention to themselves in the process, and if their attempt goes wrong, it's usually not worth the pay-off. I also feel his posting and his opinions have been townie enough.

Posts #28 to #58 all came before my accusations of coasting, and each of the meatier ones could have been analyzed for scummitude. Just because they spawned from Bard's gambit doesn't mean that they're the exact same thing - my qualms were with people who were choosing to focus on voting Bard solely because of his gambit and really no one else. Even ragging on Bard for something other than his gambit would have been acceptable, but everyone seemed to just choose to vote him for having potentially shot somebody.

So uh, why am I scum again? You keep making nitpicks about my posts, but you haven't explained how my actions have scum intent.

[Kitten4u]

Even if it is rude to start the game before the Mod arrives, I still think it's more pro-town to get your reaction to at the very least Bardiche's vig in before Affinity shows up.

Feel like I should still address this.  Thing is, I don't care how pro-town or anti-town something is in that situation.  I'm not going to game the system just because it benefits me.  I'm still extremely disappointed that other people actually thought it was okay to do so.

1) If Shadoweh actually dies, it's almost guaranteed she's town. She was shot without making a single content post. It wasn't based on reads.

I agree with this statement. 

However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .

And disagree with this one.

I feel like Shadoweh's response to the whole thing is extremely townie.  If the shot was real there really was no reason to think that Shadoweh was scum in my opinion.  If that had been a real vig shot, I agree that it would have been not only dickish, but legit scummy.  It's not like a scum hitman would be completely out of the question, and Bard does enjoy is Refuge In Audacity and silly scum gambits.  I wouldn't clear him on it making no sense as scum.  He is absolutely wrong that he has an equal chance of shooting scum as town in that game.  That implies that 50% of the game is scum, and if that were the case the game would be over already. :V  Therefore, by sheer numbers chance, he has a higher chance of hitting scum and I find claiming otherwise to try to justify it scummy.  I also really dislike how he was trying to justify that Shadoweh was a legit good target.  Shadoweh herself sums up my opinions pretty well.

That sums up my opinions on his pre-game shot.  Now that it's been revealed to be a gambit...I don't have a problem with it.  It justifies what he did in the pre-game phase because if anyone (especially Shadoweh) thought there was any chance of it being fake it would completely change how they reacted.  I know how that is from my shot last game. ;P  I'm actually really liking a lot of what he has to say right now.  Not willing to lynch Bard.

Continuing to why I think Shadoweh's response is townie.  It's pretty simple, she did exactly what I would expect from one.  She posted her reads (as minimal as they were since only a few people had posted), she was visibly upset and she didn't immediately condemn the attacker (because it really did seem like something he would do).  I really see no reason to think she's scum right now.  LLD's conspiracy theory revolving around this makes me question her alignment.  Not willing to lynch Shadoweh.  Not willing to lynch LLD either, but I will be watching her posts closely.  Oh, and LLD I would also like an answer to UK's question for you.  I've looked through Shadoweh's posts and I don't understand where you're getting the "she knew she wasn't going to die" vibe at all.

So with that said, I don't find UK scummy either.  Her thought process seems perfectly logical to me.  Bard's shot was scummy before the reveal, why would she think Shadoweh was anything but town?  Shadoweh's responses were extremely townie, why would she think she was scum?  I'm not following the case on her at all.

So let's get to the people I AM willing to lynch shall we?

##Vote Kiro

Your entire case on UK is on stuff that was done during the confirmation phase.  This is fine, but why didn't you bother to say any of this when you first posted rather than random voting?  Why was seeing Shadoweh's flip/whether or not Bard was lying so important that you would basically not scumhunt until you got it?  I'm also not really fond of the attack on HW either, particularly the mention of #77.  I thought his next post clarified what he was doing there very well, so not being able to understand what he meant by it smells a little funny to me.

I am also willing to lynch Dormio.  He's taking conspiracy theories to a whole new level, but there's more to it than that for me.  For why I dislike the conspiracy theories, see HW's posts.  He's said everything I would say about them.  To add, his voting pattern (outside of the silly RVS votes) is terrible.  So he was voting Bard because his vote was scummy and because Bard's shot was scummy?  Okay, I can buy that.  Later, he's still voting for Bard, but seems to think UK is worse.  He says that the reason he didn't vote for UK was just because votes didn't count.  I believe that fakevotes have their own meaning, and I find not switching to the person you find the scummiest, even if you only have a fakevote, suspicious.  Plus, now that he DOES have a real vote he hasn't voted. 

Both feel like they don't particularly care about finding scum to me.  I feel like Kiro is a bit worse.  The vote on Hourai and then making a case on UK when he could have done that instead of random voting just smells so wrong to me.

Warning - while you were typing 3 hours have passed
orz.  I think I deal with all the cuts though.