Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Omoikane requires even more memorization than Hourai Jewel does. I've only ever captured it when I was at full power and had access to Remilia(only during spell practice since I usually die before it)

[Zengeku]

UFO stage 4 sucks SO BAD. It's not like S5, streaming and a bomb thrown in the mix, it's just relentless spam over all the screen, reducing the navigable area to around 2x2 pixels. What the hell ZUN it's even worse than S5.

UFO-hater wanna post reply: Stage 4 is probably the best part of UFO.

[Formless God]

Dammit. Cleared EoSD Extra for the 3rd time after ... 7 tries (all are ragequits during Royal Flare). Inconsistent as hell.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

745 attempts at SFN, best is 33 seconds left.

375 attempts at Pacifist Astronomical Entombing. Best is 47 seconds left, with about 6 times where I got to 51 seconds left.

I will time both of these out some day.

[Helion]

UFO-hater wanna post reply: Stage 4 is probably the best part of UFO.

I merely seem to fuck up an abnormal number of times during S4. I can dodge, apparently, but not in that stage.

[Bananamatic]

S4 is dodging
rest is memorization garbage

[nintendonut888]

Of course. Because UFO can't possibly be down to skill. NO WAY. >:V

Anyway, another 1DNB Murasa fight, this time screwing up on the last ten seconds of Dipper Creeping Close. I even had the rhythm required to trivialize it too...

[Jaimers]

S4 is dodging
rest is memorization garbage

I still don't see where this whole UFO memorization thing is coming from.  :/
If with "memorization" you mean "figuring out how to handle the stage", than you are correct. The same can be said for Progear.
Anyway, 1DNB MoF stage 4 again. Died on Aya's last nonspell of all things.
*sigh*

[Helion]

The same can be said for Progear.

And Dodonpachi. All of UFO except for S6 is dodging, with the "memorization garbage" that is knowing how to deal with each stage. Same as DDP then.

[MTSranger]

For me, UFO isn't that much memorization, except for UFO sequence to maximize resources.
Stage 5 need memorization though, to maximize bombs and not screw up.
Boss spell cards usually need at least some memorization anyways in most of the games.

I think SA = UFO > everything else in terms of memo, which makes both of them the most annoying to 1cc for me so far.

[Formless God]

If with "memorization" you mean "figuring out how to handle the stage", than you are correct.

"Figuring out a UFO route". Baity gained OMGMULTIPLEEXTEND!s at the last part of S4 while all I could get were RAINBOW UFOs :V

[nintendonut888]

"Figuring out a UFO route". Baity gained OMGMULTIPLEEXTEND!s at the last part of S4 while all I could get were RAINBOW UFOs :V

If you need a good demonstration of an easy and practical UFO route I can make a replay for you. I've got stage 4 pretty much down by now and can snatch up 3 extra lives from it.

[LHCling]

"Figuring out a UFO route". Baity gained OMGMULTIPLEEXTEND!s at the last part of S4 while all I could get were RAINBOW UFOs :V

Uh, I'm terrible at memorization. All I've actually "memorized" from playing is the fact that Red goes to Blue which goes to Green which goes to Red, and staying close to UFOs delays the colour change. Everything else that I appear to have "memorized" is written on a piece of paper.

rest is memorization garbage

Y'know, every time I see this, I get tempted to ask (target person) for a 1cc.
If anything, IN requires more memorization than UFO.

[DracoOmega]

Other than possible optimal UFO routes (which I honestly found didn't require much memorization, except to avoid missing the occasional one), I don't think I found UFO more 'memorization-heavy' per se. It DID certainly require a lot more practice for me to get my hard 1cc in it than any other Touhou game. But I didn't go out of my way to memorize more than naturally happens when you play something a bunch of times.

I think, perhaps, that in UFO there's a greater variety of difficult attacks which each require slightly different tactics that have less 'overlap' between them than some other games. (ie: some read-and-dodge cards function pretty similarly to many ones, even if they LOOK different) And this makes it feel as though it's more memorization-heavy? Maybe?

But I think the only attacks that I really used any amount of specific memorization (other than a feel for a general approach to the card) was Nazrin Pendulum (which position had the easiest gaps for each wave),  and of course Magic Butterfly (to be fair, probably one of the most micromem card in the game)

[theshirn]

If anything, IN requires more memorization than UFO.

I call friggin' shenanigans on this.  I've 1cc'd IN Lunatic.  I've put in a lot more time and still haven't 1cc'd UFO Hard.

[nintendonut888]

It's time for logic theater, starring Iji-Donut!

I call friggin' shenanigans on this.  I've 1cc'd IN Lunatic.  I've put in a lot more time and still haven't 1cc'd UFO Hard.

Now, let's think on this. If IN requires more memorization than UFO, that does not necessarily mean it's harder, does it? After all, the main three components of dodging in Touhou are memorization, bullet reading, and luck, right? This would mean that IN would be high on memorization, the most simple and easily manipulated of the three components.

However, UFO is high on bullet reading, is it not? Call it what you will, dodging in UFO comes down to your ability to dodge on the fly. Though I actually have trouble with memorization, random dodging is considerably more difficult for the average person. Following me?

So, my point is that IN having more memorization than UFO would actually make it easier to 1cc, as UFO has more of the type of dodging that is harder! So please stop calling UFO memorization garbage! It is not, nor is it luckshit! It is too fucking hard for anyone with less than twenty motherfucking fingers and eyes of fucking danmaku perception to be able to follow. Thank you.

This has been a Donut logic theater. See you all next time!

[Bananamatic]

twenty motherfucking fingers

you're all fucking aliens

[Iryan]

On the topic of UFO's lunatic difficulty:

UFO's difficulty behaves weirdly when compared to the other games. The reason?

If you are sufficiently skilled to take on the stage patterns while also chaining UFOs properly, you'll get an incredible influx of resources, making the game much easier. Until you have reached that level for the given difficulty, you will have a really hard time. If you made a graph showing the skill level of the player against the actual performance in UFO, there would be a very noticeable bend at that point that other touhou games don't have. This effect is only strengthened by the fact that you lose one whole option every time you die.

Thus if you can barely clear other lunatics (like me), you will get ravaged by UFO lunatic. If you can clear other Lunatics with lots of spare resources, UFO will seem even easier by comparison.

Q.E.D.

...I think I should enframe this post and put it on top of my fireplace or something. Ah, but I'd need a fireplace for that first...  :/

[MTSranger]

^^ totally agree
I can enter Ichirin 6/8 or something ridiculous like that on normal.
On hard or lunatic? I'll be lucky if I actually get to stage 3 without continue > < cuz I can't get any UFOs.

[Alice★f]

What? I was told SA was one of the most difficult Touhous because it has such an emphasis on skill.

Just like UFO, but not like IN. IN is so much more memorization, that is what probably makes it the easiest Touhou game. This is most obvious in Mokou's stage. Memorize and all shit is trivialized.

Put it this way: I'm close to 1cc'ing IN Lunatic, but I'm having major trouble 1cc'ing UFO on Normal again. /shame

On hard or lunatic? I'll be lucky if I actually get   to stage 3 without continue > < cuz I can't get any UFOs.

Oh hell no wallshit stage portion 3. Only on Lunatic.

[LHCling]

GUYZ I DUN GET IT Y CANT I 1CC UFO LUNATIC

Watch it. Seriously. I've seen 1cc's get only 6 Spell Cards. I've seen some with less. I've seen perfect runs.

Thus if you can barely clear other lunatics (like me), you will get ravaged by UFO lunatic. If you can clear other Lunatics with lots of spare resources, UFO will seem even easier by comparison.

This... doesn't really say much. If you're barely clearing, then naturally it will still be difficult across all games to get another 1cc. And then, if you're clearing with a notable amount of resources left, then of course (all games, including UFO) will be easier because you're better than the poor chap in the previous example.

[Zengeku]

"Figuring out a UFO route". Baity gained OMGMULTIPLEEXTEND!s at the last part of S4 while all I could get were RAINBOW UFOs :V

YES! Totally that! If i could get the available lives just from playing then i'd have this game 1cc'ed ages ago.

It is too fucking hard for anyone with less than twenty motherfucking fingers and eyes of fucking danmaku perception to be able to follow. Thank you.

How about in S3 where you have to circle around in the enemies at the end to avoid getting screwed? Or how about those yin-yang orbs that if you don't do things right will drown you in bullets.

[nintendonut888]

How about in S3 where you have to circle around in the enemies at the end to avoid getting screwed? Or how about those yin-yang orbs that if you don't do things right will drown you in bullets.

You...circle around the enemies? Really, it's not that hard once you get in the rhythm. It's like complaining about having to stream because everything else is too hard. As for the yin-yang orbs, time a UFO. Or bomb. I admit UFO stage 3 is a bit of a bitch without proper planning.

[LHCling]

How about in S3 where you have to circle around in the enemies at the end to avoid getting screwed?

Circling around is simply intuitive; you practice it until you get it down. CW vs. CCW; it's all the same. It's one of those things that simply "clicks" in your head after a few tries.

Or how about those yin-yang orbs that if you don't do things right will drown you in bullets.

Uh, if they're drowning you in bullets, then you're obviously not wiping out ~half of them as soon as they appear. The only time when this isn't happening is when you're using a Forward Type and not unfocusing to increase your fire spread.

EDIT: Coincidentally, for survival play, the UFO tokens are arranged such that you can summon a UFO during both such instances (or just after with timing). HMMMMMMMM.

[Zengeku]

GUYZ I DUN GET IT Y CANT I 1CC UFO LUNATIC

I watched it. It would probably be good for 1cc'ing purposes. I just know that i don't want to play for half an hour only to be destroyed by LFO.

Circling around is simply intuitive

I dunno, i would never think about trying that.

[nintendonut888]

About LFO, there's a way to make the attack much less painful: When you bomb/die, move up to the top of the screen. This misdirects the waves and gives you more time before the bullets start converging.

Just a free tip.

[Zengeku]

About LFO, there's a way to make the attack much less painful: When you bomb/die, move up to the top of the screen. This misdirects the waves and gives you more time before the bullets start converging.

Just a free tip.

I'll keep that in mind. I've got a 7-week vacation ahead of me and nothing to play in it so I might just put in some UFO playing.

[Bananamatic]

first ufo extra run in ages
2DNB

first miss on kogasa's third(and I have over 90% rate on that one) and on her survival(derp early at that)

[MTSranger]

How the FUCK did I time out Genetics of the Subconscious, dying 3 times in the process.
Got to Subterranean Rose, game overed, and forgot to save replay.

[ebarrett]

Y'know, being clobbered by match mode Shikieiki without getting a hit on her most of the time isn't the bad part, because that's what lunatic match mode is supposed to do.

Repeatedly running into bullets by yourself whenever you are winning certainly feels horrible, though.