Touhou Bitching/Whining Thread mk. 7

[チソウ タイゼン]

On Hard, the trouble starts with Parasol Star Memories. On Lunatic, it's on Hello Forgotten World.

Tried to capture Sylphae Horn High Level a few more times. Got within like 1 or 2 shots from capture 3 times then got hit, then the other tries I failed so quickly.

Ya know what's totally weird about Hello?
The spaces between the bullets are like six pixels.
On focus, you move like three.
So if you move any more than one frame give or take two then you DIIIIE

Then again, my 1cc Normal was with MarisA, and I tried Lunadick with MarisA as well. Isn't there some flak about Reimu having a smaller hitbox?

So yeah. HFW is a real hit n miss.

[ふねん1]

Agh, Parasol Star Memories is still kicking my ass. To anyone with knowledge about it, would Kogasa moving in certain directions make the attack any easier (parasol positioning, perhaps)?

Ya know what's totally weird about Hello?
The spaces between the bullets are like six pixels.
On focus, you move like three.
So if you move any more than one frame give or take two then you DIIIIE

Then again, my 1cc Normal was with MarisA, and I tried Lunadick with MarisA as well. Isn't there some flak about Reimu having a smaller hitbox?

So yeah. HFW is a real hit n miss.

That's why you go diagonally down into the bottom of the screen - you move less horizontally. Trust me, Hello Forgotten World (Lunatic) will be a cakewalk once you do that.

And yes, Reimu's had a smaller hitbox at least since EoSD (don't know about the PC98 games).

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

since PCB. Reimu and Marisa have the same hitbox size in EoSD. Not sure about PC98 though, but I'm sure it was the same too.

[theshirn]

holy hellfire I hate UFO

[Alice★f]

ARGH I swear I'm gonna tie up Byakuren
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=8590

And I did insanely well. Almost MAX lives by end of Stage 3.

I don't bomb/deathbomb because I never expect to get hit. Maybe I'll do it this time...

[Bananamatic]

In MoF, Marisa's attacks are either broken or total crap that looked okay only on paper.

unless you have a Gradius fetish

[チソウ タイゼン]

ARGH I swear I'm gonna tie up Byakuren
http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=8590

And I did insanely well. Almost MAX lives by end of Stage 3.

I don't bomb/deathbomb because I never expect to get hit. Maybe I'll do it this time...

It's only possible (the earliest) to max out your lives during the interrim of stage four. It's either before or after the Nue encounter, depending on how fast you work.
You should learn how to bomb on reflex. Strangely UFO feels like it has the largest deathbombing window (bar IN) so it shouldn't be that hard. After a while you develop an instinct of what will hit you and what won't.

@Funen1
Doesn't that allow her to stick you in the corner where you are left with no choice but to dodge anyway?

[theshirn]

WHAT THE HELLLLLLLL

I was unable to get up to Koakuma without ragequitting

ragequitting only happens if I die three or more times with three bombs in stock

THE HELL

[Alice★f]

It's only possible (the earliest) to max out your lives during the interrim of stage four.

I did it. Max Lives by end of Stage 3.

[チソウ タイゼン]

I did it. Max Lives by end of Stage 3.

Really?
That's interesting. You get, what, 8 life pieces from bosses, and shoot down 10-ish UFOs?
Wait, are life pieces in this game fraction four or fraction five?

Or maybe I died at some point and am merely blocking out the memory..

[LHCling]

Ya know what's totally weird about Hello?
The spaces between the bullets are like six pixels.
On focus, you move like three.
So if you move any more than one frame give or take two then you DIIIIE

Then again, my 1cc Normal was with MarisA, and I tried Lunadick with MarisA as well. Isn't there some flak about Reimu having a smaller hitbox?

So yeah. HFW is a real hit n miss.

Warning: Random rough calculations included with some factual information.
~16 in actuality between each bullets counting from the bottom of the screen, ~18-22 if you're counting hitboxes only. This number may actually vary depending on Kogasa's position relative to the vertical position. Hitboxes vary in "width" from ~4-7 pixels (4, 5 and 7 for R,S and M in that order... IIRC). Focus movement is 2 Px / Frame, ~1.41 if you're moving diagonally downwards. Assuming that you're in between two bullets, you technically have something like 7-9 Px per side for movement Each frame consists of ~0.0165 seconds. You have at least 4 frames assuming that you're starting from the middle; for tapping a button (that is, pressing and releasing it) ~0.065 seconds isn't too unreasonable. For the record, I can do it No Focus with Reimu / Sanae while pressing down at the same time (resulting speed is ~3.2 Px / Frame) with moderate (read: 50%) consistency; that's 2, maybe 3 frames worth of space. To quote:

Microtapping is a skill as well  :3c

Really?
That's interesting. You get, what, 8 life pieces from bosses, and shoot down 10-ish UFOs?
Wait, are life pieces in this game fraction four or fraction five?

Or maybe I died at some point and am merely blocking out the memory..

At the end of Stage 3, it's 6 pieces from the Bosses. Number of UFOs varies, but ~10 seems about right. For the sake of argument, let's assume 6. 6 (Red) UFOs -> 3 lives. 6 Fragments -> 3 lives. 6 lives + your base 2 = 8. And that's 6 of the 10 possible Red UFOs. And it's per 4.

And before anybody even complains "but lunatic doesn't let me get those UFOs" I'm going to say bomb. Turn two of those into Greens (very possible) and you'd still be getting 8, which translates to 4. Of course, assuming that they're full.
Oh, and I'm playing terribly today.

[GenericTouhouFailure]

Today is no touhou day.

I make the most retarded deaths all over.
Also I reached stage 6 on mof only to game over on rice porridge.
And Stage 6 pcb (finally after a quadzillion chenderpdeaths 1/2 alicedeaths and a prisreevers battle that finally went my way - sort of after bombspamming in the opener) and then clipped yuyuko's opener OAME GVER DERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERPDERP
and finally YOUMU YOU'RE TOO SOFT STOP WALLING ME!

[Alice★f]

Really?
That's interesting. You get, what, 8 life pieces from bosses, and shoot down 10-ish UFOs?
Wait, are life pieces in this game fraction four or fraction five?

Or maybe I died at some point and am merely blocking out the memory..

Here:


Totally making a statement here. UFO should be one of the easiest Touhous around, but most people seem to agree it's not.
Spoiler:

Spoiler:

The UFO system actually makes the game easier.

http://tsundereworks.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/maxlivesstage3.png <Nobu> Linked due to 150kb image size limit.
Replay: http://replays.gensokyou.org/download.php?id=8592
 :barf:
UFO VOMITS EXTENDS YOU GUYS


The idea is to only go for reds. Milk them and then kill them. You do this twice and beat the midboss and you already got an extra life.


You can even go over the maximum. I'm not sure if UFO keeps track of that though. I don't think SA did.
And hell yes~ 0.000% Slowdown Rate

[Krimmydoodle]

UFO VOMITS EXTENDS YOU GUYS

UFO theoretically vomits extends.  Not quite fair that you (from what I can tell, someone who's aiming for Lunatic 1ccs) are playing Normal for this demonstration.  Speaking as a Lunatic player playing Lunatic*, it's unreliable to expect to be able to pick up every UFO that appears.  Significant wall sections occur during Stage 2 and Stage 3, which prevent your ability to be able to collect UFOs, allow UFOs to absorb items, destroy UFOs efficiently, and grab the spoils.  If I had a nickel for every time I ended Stage 2 by summoning a red UFO, letting it fill, getting streamed away from it so I can't grab the star, then having it leave before I could destroy it, I'd have a room full of Touhou plushies to console me after my failures.  Stage 3 impedes the process as well with the post-midboss arrow wall fairies, and the pre-boss streamfuck, both of which require proper execution to survive, and going even slightly out of your way to grab that stray UFO, or to try to destroy one, can be all it takes to get you killed.  Sure, you can bomb, but that only goes so far until you have to start suiciding for more bombs (which counteracts the extend-vomiting point you're trying to make), plus, unless you're MarisaB**, it can be easy to destroy a UFO prematurely, losing you that second star.  And this is just pointing out sections where I already expect problems to occur.  This doesn't account for just plain screwing up and grazing some UFO for no reason and getting myself killed by flying into a bullet wall in an attempt to grab that UFO.

*Sure, lower difficulties might be more fair and not wall you so much, but if you're a Normal player playing Normal, it can look just as intimidating as being a Lunatic player playing Lunatic, which makes it equally difficult for them.

**Krim Inc. is not responsible for homicidal/suicidal rage induced by use of the MarisaB shottype.

[LHCling]

Krim: If you haven't already watched it, my infamous run where I make it to Syou 8/9 and clear with 0 lives remaining due to a critical failure.

Barring the obvious mistake, max lives by the end of Stage 3 still looks possible to me, even on Lunatic. ReimuA half speed bomb isn't even a proper liability as well; you may have to use 1-2 extra bombs though.

I can probably whip up a ReimuA one if you wish (though, not right now of course).

**Krim Inc. is not responsible for homicidal/suicidal rage induced by use of the MarisaB shottype.

Don't be hating on the One True Shot Type man  :<
Also it probably goes without saying that image destroyed my bandwidth. I know you people like your high quality stuff but keep them thumbnailed / linked.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

I usually go for max bombs before Kogasa then start going for Reds late stage 3 or stage 4, and I can consistently get to stage 5, and I still derp a lot and never get midboss Nue's extend because I die with lots of bombs in stock, costing me effectively 2 lives.

[Krimmydoodle]

Barring the obvious mistake, max lives by the end of Stage 3 still looks possible to me, even on Lunatic.

I wasn't arguing that it was impossible, but that it's simply quite difficult, to the extent that if you can get that many extends, you probably don't actually need that many extends.

[ふねん1]

@Funen1
Doesn't that allow her to stick you in the corner where you are left with no choice but to dodge anyway?

Don't know what you mean by corner. Going diagonally down into the bottom means holding down, then when you need to move left/right, tap left/right.

[Bananamatic]

UFOs don't vomit extends

it's a fucking extend diarrhea

[チソウ タイゼン]

Don't know what you mean by corner. Going diagonally down into the bottom means holding down, then when you need to move left/right, tap left/right.

It takes roughly 15 seconds to MarisA her HFW card, right? She emits a constant (four seconds?) stream of bullets that I avoid by going at an oblique angle, yes, but that leads to me being pushed down and right/left into the border of the screen.

UFOs don't vomit extends

it's a fucking extend diarrhea

It is...

@GreenVirus
Count me corrected. Sorry ppl.

Warning: Random rough calculations included with some factual information.
~16 in actuality between each bullets counting from the bottom of the screen, ~18-22 if you're counting hitboxes only. This number may actually vary depending on Kogasa's position relative to the vertical position. Hitboxes vary in "width" from ~4-7 pixels (4, 5 and 7 for R,S and M in that order... IIRC). Focus movement is 2 Px / Frame, ~1.41 if you're moving diagonally downwards. Assuming that you're in between two bullets, you technically have something like 7-9 Px per side for movement Each frame consists of ~0.0165 seconds. You have at least 4 frames assuming that you're starting from the middle; for tapping a button (that is, pressing and releasing it) ~0.065 seconds isn't too unreasonable. For the record, I can do it No Focus with Reimu / Sanae while pressing down at the same time (resulting speed is ~3.2 Px / Frame) with moderate (read: 50%) consistency; that's 2, maybe 3 frames worth of space. To quote:

Wow. I was just estimating, but I had no idea that anybody would ever care to figure out O_o

[ふねん1]

It takes roughly 15 seconds to MarisA her HFW card, right? She emits a constant (four seconds?) stream of bullets that I avoid by going at an oblique angle, yes, but that leads to me being pushed down and right/left into the border of the screen.

Mind if I see a replay? I guess I'm still a bit confused at your description.

[チソウ タイゼン]

Mind if I see a replay? I guess I'm still a bit confused at your description.

Unfortunately not. I busted out my computer's RAM and video output.
I'm interneting with iPod.

[Helion]

UFOs may vomit extends, but I waste far more chasing after them and then getting walled by static spam.

[Iryan]

UFO's difficulty behaves weirdly when compared to the other games. The reason?

If you are sufficiently skilled to take on the stage patterns while also chaining UFOs properly, you'll get an incredible influx of resources, making the game much easier. Until you have reached that level for the given difficulty, you will have a really hard time. If you made a graph showing the skill level of the player against the actual performance in UFO, there would be a very noticeable bend at that point that other touhou games don't have. This effect is only strengthened by the fact that you lose one whole option every time you die.

Thus if you can barely clear other lunatics (like me), you will get ravaged by UFO lunatic. If you can clear other Lunatics with lots of spare resources, UFO will seem even easier by comparison.

Q.E.D.

[Demonbman]

Almost 1ccd EoSD Normal yesterday! Im mad again now because of the mention of diffuculty and flucnuation! Grrrr! I got 1/2 way throught Remi's last spell and got caved in a corner grrrr!

[theshirn]

GAME OVER ON SCARLET GENSOKYO AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHH

[Naut]

Barring the obvious mistake, max lives by the end of Stage 3 still looks possible to me, even on Lunatic. ReimuA half speed bomb isn't even a proper liability as well; you may have to use 1-2 extra bombs though.

You can hit max lives at midboss Ichirin. Or, that's the earliest I have. One bomb to kill a UFO only because I spawned it too early, so it's very possible with no bombs.

I wasn't arguing that it was impossible, but that it's simply quite difficult, to the extent that if you can get that many extends, you probably don't actually need that many extends.

Not very difficult (considering), you just need a good route. The problem is, you don't want lives for stage 4, you want them for stages 5 and 6. All those UFOs on stage 4 will go to waste. More reason to try scoring :V

UFO's difficulty behaves weirdly when compared to the other games. The reason?

If you are sufficiently skilled to take on the stage patterns while also chaining UFOs properly, you'll get an incredible influx of resources, making the game much easier. Until you have reached that level for the given difficulty, you will have a really hard time. If you made a graph showing the skill level of the player against the actual performance in UFO, there would be a very noticeable bend at that point that other touhou games don't have.

Thus if you can barely clear other lunatics (like me), you will get ravaged by UFO lunatic. If you can clear other Lunatics with lots of spare resources, UFO will seem even easier by comparison.

Q.E.D.

Listen to this man.

[Sen]

I have reached boss!Ichirin 8/8 before, so I know it's very much possible :V

[ふねん1]

I am SICK of makeshift walls forming on me! First UNR's "fallout" bullets completely close off the already small spaces between suns, then a freaking vertical line (seriously) of butterflies in DBDB appearing from behind another mass before I can react to them.

Fucking randomness.

[Alice★f]

UFO   theoretically vomits extends.  Not quite fair that you (from   what I can tell, someone who's aiming for Lunatic 1ccs) are playing   Normal for this demonstration.  Speaking as a Lunatic player playing   Lunatic*, it's unreliable to expect to be able to pick up every UFO that   appears.

*...

*Sure, lower difficulties might be   more fair and not wall you so much, but if you're a Normal player   playing Normal, it can look just as intimidating as being a Lunatic   player playing Lunatic, which makes it equally difficult for them.

I would have done it in Lunatic if I could, but isn't there the same amount of UFO's regardless of difficulty level? Hell, I was even thinking about doing it on Easy.

Doing this is very difficult, but like anything else in Touhou, it's not impossible, regardless of what difficulty you're playing at. Difficulty is only relative to how much experience the player has. You already know this, though. It's in your post.

Krim:   If you haven't already watched   it, my infamous run where I make it to Syou 8/9   and clear with 0 lives remaining due to a critical failure.

Totally watching that/

I have reached boss!Ichirin 8/8 before, so I know it's very much possible :V

Okay, hitting max lives is one thing... but also max bombs? Do you have a replay?

=======================
Okay, this thread should totally go back to shape. I'm out of things to say at the moment, but at this rate, it'll be the "UFO Bitching/Whining Thread"