東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

[Tiamat]

• I wonder if this game will have anything to do with the moon at all or if we are led astray. Lunatic =/= Lunar, Kingdom =/= Capital. Reisen is a good indicator that the moon is involved, but Youmu was also a good indicator for more ghosts in TD as well... Maybe we are just going somewhere craaazy? The colors would be good indicator, if anything. And ... Reisen fit's crazy quite well, too. She is the Lunatic Moon Rabbit after all (not Lunar)

Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.

[Validon98]

Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.

Not only that, but if you look closely at the title screen, you can see faded silhouette of the moon, or what looks like the moon in the night sky.

[Tiamat]

Also, Reisen's storyline bit in the OP says "The moon's power can only be opposed using the very same.
Eirin's medicine has the power to make its drinker experience the future."

So Reisen is opposing the Moon's power using her own Moon power.

Unless the Moon is a red herring, this could also imply the villain is a Lunarian.  (although more likely there's a red herring and at most we'll get a Lunarian for the penultimate boss or the extra stage boss, if at all)

[cuc]

FINALLY he is making a Water-themed Touhou game!

People have been making Marine Benefit haoxes for so long now. Finally it is time to get wet!

New Touhou also makes my pants wet. ( ͡? ͜ʖ ͡?)

Dude, I was kidding about the kayak paddles ...

Real talk, there's a good chance for the story to be sea-related. Some Japanese fans have been reminded of another kanju (same pronunciation, different kanji), the "tide-ebbing jewel" of Japanese mythology.

In the story of Hoori (a.k.a. the husband of Toyohime and father-in-law of Yorihime), he was gifted with two jewels of the Dragon Palace, one that can raise water, and another that can drain water.

In later folktales, these jewels also aided Empress Jingū in conquering Korea.

The English wikipedia entry on the jewels is surprisingly elaborate and well-researched, especially considering there isn't a Japanese entry for them. The only downside is it doesn't mention those more folkloric Empress Jingū tales.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tide_jewels

[LunaWillow]

For me, only TD is the game that is not enjoyable. Patterns are ok, music is good, shottypes are fun, but the trance gimmick and lack of lives makes it very, very frustraiting. I had a lot of fun playing ISC, and I can compare it to DS/StB in the level of enjoyability. And I also like DDC and it's unic shottypes.

I also like to not say things like "DDC, TD and ISC were bad". It sounds like you give the game only legitimate judgement, instead of giving your own opinion. I'd rather use something like "I think DDC, TD and ISC were bad".

[game2011]

Remember what happened last time we got into a "war" with Sakurei over Touhou 14.3?  Touhou's dead to her already, so don't bother.

[Flandre5carlet]

Reisen being a good substitute for Youmu would imply that Reisen = Youmu which is just wrong wrong wrong.

Never implied that; there isn't much to substitute when Youmu has only been in one single game on her own and hasn't come back in the one after it, anyway. Reisen would be a substitute if Youmu was a regular and suddenly wasn't here with Reisen in her place, but that is not the case. Also,

Like this sounds more like a troll thing than anything. The selection of playable characters has barely anything to do with the quality of the game unless you are that diehard of a fan of certain characters (and I'll be honest, the Youmu shottype in TD was okayish at best, but I'd rather use Reimu or Sanae if I were playing TD, even her IN appearance was better (actually she was really good in IN if you were good at using her)). And if so, okay? Hearing this being said as if it were a legitimate measure of game design kind of doesn't sit well with me, though.

Except Great Fairy Wars experimented with the gameplay far more than Double Dealing Character did (and the Shoot the Bullet games were further from being standard shooters than Impossible Spell Card was), so by that metric what you want is more experimentation, not less.

Personally GFW and StB/DS are some of my favourite games in the series specifically because of how different the gameplay is compared to the main games, so here's hoping that ZUN's experiment with TH15 works out here. I didn't enjoy ISC much, though.

-snip-

Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.
I don't remember ever hearing of anything specific about Toyohime's husband though, not even a name... Could you tell me where you've seen that?

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.

"The lunar maria are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient volcanic eruptions. They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas", by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas."

Maybe it's both? The Hoori story would still be related to the Lunarians anyway, it would seem.

[Sakurei]

Like this sounds more like a troll thing than anything. The selection of playable characters has barely anything to do with the quality of the game unless you are that diehard of a fan of certain characters

You don't know me, do you?

[Flandre5carlet]

"The lunar maria are large, dark, basaltic plains on Earth's Moon, formed by ancient volcanic eruptions. They were dubbed maria, Latin for "seas", by early astronomers who mistook them for actual seas."

Maybe it's both? The Hoori story would still be related to the Lunarians anyway, it would seem.

Well now that I think of it, aren't there also Lunar Seas on the Far Side of the Moon in Touhou? Could very well be both, going by that.

[7TC7]

Reimu's pounding mochi in the title screen.  So odds are pretty good it'll have something to do with the moon.

You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

Not only that, but if you look closely at the title screen, you can see faded silhouette of the moon, or what looks like the moon in the night sky.

That on the other hand is something I didn't notice and is really cool. Maybe it will be about the moon. For, like, the first three stages.

But on a more serious note, much earlier in the thread somebody mentioned, how potentially sad it would be if Sakuya wasn't playable in the game that could finally explain her connections to the Lunarians. Well, nothing says she couldn't still be a possible boss.

And on another note, because it was also mentioned in regards to the titular jewel. Isn't there also some synonymous meening between the Moon Kingdom and the Dragon Palace? Or is that something I'm just jumbling up in my mind? I now it's supposed to be underwater, but Iku came from the sky and there is no huge bodies of water to fit a palace inside in Gensokyo, so...

[Formless God]

when he declares he's gonna revamp things.

Because he isn't already doing this in every game?

With ZUN's recent trends, the stage 5 boss is going to shoot invisible bullets

Yeah. How dare he make something like that. Like who even plays this literal turd of a game?

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Well now that I think of it, aren't there also Lunar Seas on the Far Side of the Moon in Touhou? Could very well be both, going by that.

I looked it up on the wiki, and yes it does. Something to note, to bypass the barrier around the Lunar Capital you'd have to follow "an invisible predetermined route through the various seas of the Moon".  Maybe that'll happen in the game?

[Flandre5carlet]

But on a more serious note, much earlier in the thread somebody mentioned, how potentially sad it would be if Sakuya wasn't playable in the game that could finally explain her connections to the Lunarians. Well, nothing says she couldn't still be a possible boss.

While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I looked it up on the wiki, and yes it does. Something to note, to bypass the barrier around the Lunar Capital you'd have to follow "an invisible predetermined route through the various seas of the Moon".  Maybe that'll happen in the game?

inb4 the game is about neither the moon or the sea because ZUN and we're just speculating way off

[Darkness1]

Hmm, the game seems to have an "experiencing past and future"theme... perhaps there'll be time loops.

pc98 confirmed :V

Pretty hyped for a new main touhou game, and a lunarian theme on top, sweet!

Even if she may not appear as a boss, I hope Sakuya makes an appearance somehow, or just a character from IN or two. Kaguya seems plausible, atleast if the game theme is what I feel it could be, plus Kaguya knows time manipulation which is cool. :3
I don't think the Watatsuki's would appear as anything but EX personally.
Loving Reimu's appearance in the screenshots.

Also, am I the only one who really enjoyed TD? I wonder...

[Leon゠Helsing]

Spoiler:

Plot twist: Sakuya's the final boss.

:V

[Flandre5carlet]

Also, am I the only one who really enjoyed TD? I wonder...

No, I really enjoyed TD myself; especially the EX stage. Much more enjoyable overall (to me) than DDC was.

[Sakurei]

Yeah. How dare he make something like that. Like who even plays this literal turd of a game?

Reisen's bullets don#t have a hitbox though. that is what I mean when I say invisible bullets - bullets with a hitbox.

[Tengukami]

You don't know me, do you?

For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.

[Espadas]

HELL YEAH!!!!!!!!!

MAIN GAME ANNOUNCED! AND SANAE RETURN!!!!!  :toot:
ZUN, one word..... THANKS!

Really curious about the "big changes", for ZUN himself to define them as such must be something really different from the usual gimmick....

Reisen is quite the welcome news, i like her and a completely new PC is refreshing.

Holy... bright frame is bright! Not a big problem for me, and this IS a work-in-progress demo, but i hope ZUN tones the colors down a bit.

Personally, i greatly enjoy EVERY game simply because the base gameplay is still the same and the gimmicks are simply an added layer of difficulty/complexity to it, making every game both similar and unique at the same time.

SUMMER, COME FAST PLEASE!!!


P.S. Sakurei, from how you worded your comments it looks like your problem with the games is not a matter of "innovations" but if Youmu is playable or not. Considering she was playable in 2 out of 9 (not counting pc-98 era) of the main games, isn't this "condition for a game being good" a bit too much restrictive? After all, Touhou is infamous for its enormous cast and lightly-defined characters.... I too have some chars i like more than others (heck, one of my favourite is Yuyuko, and she certainly isn't among the most "playable"  :V) but that doesn't influence my enjoyment of the game, it's just an added bonus if they appears.

EDIT: and if all you said was just to provoke reactions, well i guess you succeeded, you not-troll! 

[Formless God]

And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know.

well he's right about that one at least lol

[Tengukami]

Heh. I loved GFW, too.

But yeah. Anyone making absolute statements about matters of taste might, just maybe, be trying to get a rise out of you. Just throwin' that out there.

You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

Er, no, I think it's almost 100% certain there is implied mochi-pounding here. HAUNTED mochi.

[cuc]

Interesting. And here everybody's thinking the theme is about Lunarians, but it could be... sea-related? Huh.
I don't remember ever hearing of anything specific about Toyohime's husband though, not even a name... Could you tell me where you've seen that?

While the Lunar Capital does not display an overt sea motif, the Touhou lore has repeated associated it with the Dragon Palace in the sea (see how CiLR retells the Urashimataro legend), until in the SoPM interview, ZUN flat out said the Dragon Palace is in Lunar Capital.

A possible but overly formulaic plot for Touhou 15 would actually be: a Lunarian in exile wanted to settle down in Gensokyo, and tried to make it better resemble her Lunar Capital home by creating seas in Gensokyo using the tide jewel.

Re: Toyohime's husband
Well, the Watatsuki sisters are based on Toyotama-hime and Tamayori-hime from Japanese mythology about the origin of the imperial lineage. The two goddesses are dragon (or shark or crocodile, depending on interpretation) daughters of a sea god who live in the Dragon Palace. Toyotama-hime married Hoori, and Tamayori-hime raised and married their son, giving birth to the first Emperor. In Chapter 1 of CiLR, Eirin hinted at this complicated familial relationship, although last time I checked the wiki, the English translation of this part was a bit confused. You can read this entry for a brief summary.

[game2011]

For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.

And like I said, Touhou's dead to her already.  The last time some of us got into a "fight" with her about 14.3, mods had to do a "mass deletion" of threads, so just let her be.

[Flandre5carlet]

And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know.

... I rank GFW way above DDC, what is it supposed to tell..?

-snip-

Very interesting, thank you for the explanation. I actually was not aware at all of the origins behind the Watatsukis sisters; I did remember the part about the "complicated familial relationship" but never thought much of it since I didn't have much to put it in context.
I like your theory for the plot also, it actually really sounds like the kind of plot you'd have in a Touhou game.

[Tengukami]

Not to mention the fact that the basaltic plains the cover the Moon in patches are known as "lunar seas", and they've been called seas since long, long before anyone got a good look at the moon. I'm not sure if this was a part of ancient Asian astronomy, though.

e: Aaaand someone already mentioned that bit. NVM!

[Sakurei]

For those who don't know, Sakurei enjoys saying mildly provocative things to get a reaction. And the fact that they rank GFW above DDC should tell you everything you need to know. Take the bait at your discretion.

I was more referring to the fact that Youmu > all for me by a lot. my degree of Youmu fangirlism is off the charts, so to say

GFW is legitimately better than DDC though. That has nothing to do with baiting. It is my good and honest opinion. And many people agree with me on it, apparently.

[Tengukami]

Hurrah for you, then.

Well, the Watatsuki sisters are based on Toyotama-hime and Tamayori-hime from Japanese mythology about the origin of the imperial lineage. The two goddesses are dragon (or shark or crocodile, depending on interpretation) daughters of a sea god who live in the Dragon Palace. Toyotama-hime married Hoori, and Tamayori-hime raised and married their son, giving birth to the first Emperor. In Chapter 1 of CiLR, Eirin hinted at this complicated familial relationship, although last time I checked the wiki, the English translation of this part was a bit confused. You can read this entry for a brief summary.

I really need to read up more on the Watas I guess.

[game2011]

And many people agree with me on it, apparently.

How about you point out all the people or the place where they are agreeing with you instead of simply saying it, which anyone can do?

[LunaWillow]

GFW is legitimately better than DDC though. That has nothing to do with baiting. It is my good and honest opinion. And many people agree with me on it, apparently.

And I must disagree. GFW is too difficult for me to be enjoyable. Argument "but you can freeze bullets!" does not speak to me. Just look at fairies last spell on lunatic! Look at this! And for a moment they shoots fireballs ONLY. And they cannot be froze. Thus, I enjoyed DDC much, much more (even though I suck at getting 2.0 bonuses).
But that's only my opinion...

Btw. we should probably end this off-topic by now...