NoTV 2 Mafia (Game Over, Scum and 3rd Party Win)

[CF7]

I won't be around the deadline again. /sigh
Also, after reading O4rfish latest posts, i don't think that he's actually scum.
##Unvote
I'll place my vote a bit later today, when i get home from work and reread the thread.

[Bardiche]

Miqo'te Drool!      
               
CF7:    Mitsuki, NNR (2)               
Dormio:    BT, PX (2)            
Raikaria:    Dorian, Dormio (2)               
O4rfish:    Sky_Paladin, Conqueror, Shadoweh (3)   
Dorian:   Raikaria (1)
Sky Paladin:   SB (1)
BT:   O4rfish (1)      

Unvoting democracy-hating communists:   CF7 (1)

With 14 alive, it's 8 to lynch.         

8 hours until cats, cats everywhere!

[PX]

Back from smash. I'll read and post after food.

[Raikaria]

Doing quick math tells me deadline is 1am my time.

So I won't be around for it.

[ActionDan]

ooo prods. 


##Vote Skypal

until I read Oarfish.

Less convinced CF7 is scum.

[Dorian White]

I had two options at the time~ either stay with my PX vote or get a 50% chance to save the guy I thought were town* ?may lady luck make her choice for the better*?  and the better choice would have been cf7~ hence my vote! ^^ so would be quite lovely of you if you could stop repeating this misrepresentation*^^;
where is even the benefit for scum me to tie the wagons? why have I done this when I don't care who gets lynched? I could have happily stayed with my easy to justify PX vote~ to wait for the incoming mislynch* so I am not only scum~ I am also dumb? ^^; is it that? <_<
and what kind of twisted logic is that anyway? you assume scum me by the point that I didn't cared about the lynch~ which isn't even true and use this to assume town cf7? >_> or do you have reasons to think cf7 is town~ aside from me being scum? 0_0

and yay~ how you got me there* I ask the player that I suspected~ who was about to be lynched~ to claim and that twice~ cause I missed the first time he claimed* yay totally rolefishing! ^^;;
I mean if rolefishing is such a thing for you~ then why did you missed the fact that BT only asked PX to claim~which he not even suspected but never asked zakeri to claim~ the one he wanted lynched in the end? and his call for the one that targeted wasn't a thing to talk about for you either*
a clear case of selected perception~ if you ask me* wasn't BT not suspicious too based on the marvelous conclusion you drawn from your analysis of the shadoweh wagon? what happened with that? 0_0
And when I already talk about your suspicion~ lets take a look at your points about o4rfish* the first time you talk about him is here~ a unspecific agreement with sky and a non-telling offhand commend~ that's all! ^^; and the next time you mentioned him do you sound like you had a case on him all along or something when you didn't even had clear reason to suspect him~ so what's up with that? ^^;

and now to the fish himself~ what's actually the case against him? I don't see where the benefit is for scum4fish to empty unvote at the end of day* he could have just sit there on his dormio vote~ watch the zakeri lynch ~ eat popcorn and not drawing any unwanted attention*
and I know that his lack of direction looks bad but that also implicates a lack of help here~ doesn't it? ^^;
come on girls~ I know we can do better than lynching the odd looking guy* (sorry~ no offence meant ^^; )

@sky: yes~ I am post restricted* and sadly yes again~ I missed to adding a ?!? somewhere day one* that lead to it becoming aggravated and I failed to post according to my new restriction in my second post today~  hence my little panic outburst back then* ^^;;

however~ sooner or later do I have to face the consequences anyway* so I will happily accept any new challenge the mod will give me~ ze! \^u^/ yay~ for unreasonable optimism!

[SB]

SORRY GUYS SMASH HAPPENED AGAIN. But I'm here now, and the only wagons I would support are Dormio, CF7 and Oarfish. Everyone else except NNR are varying shades of townie to me right now. It annoys me because I feel like I could solve the game if not for the recruit, but >.>

I reread PAD and Dormio actually played there and had an ongoing thought process in his posts, whereas here he just makes a wallpost on someone and kind of disregards everyone else, which is pretty much what he did in Mirai Nikki too I think? Even after he spent a lot of D1 on a Raikaria tunnel he has said like... nothing on him since then and I don't expect that he would give up on the case that easily if he was town? I can see him switching to Dan or whatever but I think he would at least keep looking in Raikaria's direction (and no, saying "I'd sheep a Raikaria wagon" doesn't count.)

I agree with the Oarfish suspicions because it feels like he isn't doing very much, and the content he has seems to be super defensive. It also feels like he turns around his defenses into attacks on other people (see: what he did to Sky) and his "my meta is never rolling scum" which is hilarious but it also feels like he's saying "yeah I can never be scum stop voting me" and um... I actually looked at why the post that caused him to unvote Dormio? Why the fuck would this post ever make you unvote someone?

CF7 is admittedly a lower priority than the other two (actually, after reading his posts again, no he isn't), but I read his Mitsuki case and it's kind of what? It's basically pure OMGUS and calls her scummy for reasons that should be more or less null? He also says that all of the wagons sucked but then did nothing to provide a counterwagon and was just kind of there being useless. I also think that his points about PX are scummy as fuck? Yes, vanilla isn't provable but why would scum!PX want to claim that whilst time is counting down, most roles aren't provable unless you're in role madness (eg, tracker tracking a claimed vanilla to nowhere doesn't prove the tracker because the info is already out there, etc) so it looks like you're just trying to stop people townreading him rather than suggesting he's scum which is horrible.

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

Shadoweh's recent post is good, and Skypal actually has some energy in his posts now, so I'm feeling better on both of them. Lynching PX is dumb because his deadline posts looked obvtown and I don't get the votes on him at all today.

I missed this before but Mitsuki saying she wants to keep playing despite activity issues makes me think that she's probably town? I remember after a recent SF game finished where we were scumbuddies she said over Skype that she didn't want to roll scum again for a while? I feel like she would've just agreed to bail as scum or something, and her cases are way less outrageous than what she pushed in that game.

[Raikaria]

I had two options at the time~ either stay with my PX vote or get a 50% chance to save the guy I thought were town* ?may lady luck make her choice for the better*?  and the better choice would have been cf7~ hence my vote! ^^ so would be quite lovely of you if you could stop repeating this misrepresentation*^^;
where is even the benefit for scum me to tie the wagons? why have I done this when I don't care who gets lynched? I could have happily stayed with my easy to justify PX vote~ to wait for the incoming mislynch* so I am not only scum~ I am also dumb? ^^; is it that? <_<
and what kind of twisted logic is that anyway? you assume scum me by the point that I didn't cared about the lynch~ which isn't even true and use this to assume town cf7? >_> or do you have reasons to think cf7 is town~ aside from me being scum? 0_0

Uh; I never said CF7 is town. I guess he would be by association if you flip scum [Since you didn't care which of the two got lynched; which; if you were scum would signal both were town]; but honestly it doesn't look like we're lynching you today anyway. And your apathy towards the lynch is not the sole reason I am voting; but also your weak cases. And I'm not the only one to call you out on them; BT did too.

Anyway I'm gonna read, think, and do some other stuff and come back in about 2 hours before I start getting ready to sleep. It's pretty clear that we're not lynching Dorian today regardless of how much I think it's the right choice to do so [And honestly last time I thought this I was wrong so maybe you're right to not follow me down the path of lynching Dorian?]. I guess CF7; Dormio and O4rfish are the main things on the plate right now. And me. But I'm not lynching me.

My current opinions on the wagons before I go to think and re-read are:

CF7: I've been pretty null on him most of the game; and honestly I've avoided making my mind up on him because a Dorian flip that I was pushing for would grant an associative read by my logic. Primary re-read target.

Dormio: Kinda hard to not be biased since I don't think Dormio has made a post without indicating he wants to lynch me all game long. That said; he's done little of note except tunnel me. Sure he voted someone else at some point but even then he was mostly talking about wanting to lynch me.

O4rfish: Getting good vibes from his recent posts, even if I don't agree with his BT vote. You don't have to agree with someone to think they might be town. Previous had a bad read due to unusually low activity and what there was being unimpressive but that's kinda been explained now.

These are of course subject to change based on me mulling things over, wagon status [It might be a case of not me over me, or the one I want lynched could suddenly not be viable], and of course any posts before I come back.

===

Cut by Invisionfree messing up and SB

[Conqueror]

Dormio's game

You replaced in for a lurker slot and your play was completely different, so no? :V Replacement games are a pretty bad comparison point anyway.

Wavering over Oarfish's latest posts but all he's done is attack BT for rolefishing. It's a valid complaint but he doesn't seem to consider that BT could be rolefishing town who forgot the implications of claiming ascetic/whatever. It's also very superficial, compared to all of Oarfish's previous games where he went off on conspiracy land based off of a few posts. Oarfish pointing out he's never been scum before actually supports my point because I think in this game he's first time scum who hasn't figured out how to fake opinions yet.

Here. Oarfish, what about Dormio's PX post made you unvote. And sure, I can accept that you had no time to read and choose suspects, were it not 48 *2 hours into the game. Even given your birthday (happy birthday btw) I feel that as town here you'd have more to show than a few cursory suspicions.

Addendum: I may have something to do with BT's overnight vision, although not the twilight thing. Pretty sure the vision is a red herring.

PX just because we saved you D1 doesn't mean you can lurk out D2. >_> Get in here.

[Conqueror]

Oh wait, PX posted a few posts above me. I'm great at reading.

[Conqueror]

and now to the fish himself~ what's actually the case against him? I don't see where the benefit is for scum4fish to empty unvote at the end of day* he could have just sit there on his dormio vote~ watch the zakeri lynch ~ eat popcorn and not drawing any unwanted attention*
and I know that his lack of direction looks bad but that also implicates a lack of help here~ doesn't it? ^^;

Prods exist and 2 of them well get you modkilled I think. Also, I figure he unvoted Dormio just to get off his early vote, and then forgot about or couldn't think of getting another vote by the end of the day.

[Raikaria]

*Faceplams*

Ugh there is so little content to go off this game; especially regarding the primary wagons.

It's still between CF7 and Dormio if I'm going to go on the primary wagons. CF7 has posted a fair bit but not much actual substance exists in the posts. It feels like active lurking to some degree; especially during Day 2.

There's also his vote on Mitsuki; which is pretty much, as others pointed out, OMGUS. CF7 is literally voting Mitsuki for 'bringing this up now'. I don't get why Mitsuki backed off when challenged but whatever; I don't like that by CF7.

CF7's play feels reactionary. I don't see him actually scumhunting or making cases.

On the other hand, Dormio is almost the opposite. He's not really been active at all, and most of the time he has been showing... minor signs of attempting to make a case. Albeit poor ones on me which verge on tunneling.  He almost seems to ignore almost everything else going on; which is the opposite for the reactionary play out of CF7. It's not really proactive but ugh.

To be honest I don't really like either of them this game. And it sucks having to choose between them; especially when neither are my primary scumread [That's Dorian].

I do not agree with lynching O4rfish at this current juncture. Good thing about this game is I don't mess up lynches by not lynching O4rfish. O4rfish just needs majority if the town wants otherwise. But I'd rather O4rfish not be lynched over CF7/Dormio.

Also what is this supposed to mean?

ooo prods. 


##Vote Skypal

until I read Oarfish.

Less convinced CF7 is scum.

Vote: Skypal until I read Oarfish? What does this even mean? It's nonsensical. I didn't comment on this before but thinking about it now it cropped up in re-reads.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Actiondan on the chopping block too. His entire game has been rather... bad.

Screw it; I'll do this just to see what the reaction to it is and if there's support. I'll be back later and maybe I'll have made my mind up on Dormio or CF7 by then. There certainly is a valid case for lynching [In]ActionDan. I feel he's just been lurking out the game and what content he has provided, if it can even be called 'content' is poor and nonsensical [see: Sky vote].

#Unvote
#Vote: ActionDan

[Raikaria]

Also this is like 70% gut. I can't really make a solid case on ActionDan since there's so little to use.

[CF7]

It's basically pure OMGUS and calls her scummy for reasons that should be more or less null?

Her reaction was bad. Too defensive. So it was an OMGUS vote.

Anyway. I am not sure who i really want to vote for. Since no one really stands out too scummy to me. I don't like PX for his earlier NNR case. I can continue pushing for Mitsuki lynch that is not happening. I am a little concerned about Dorian "saving the player he thought was town". Plus there's Dan and his lurkiness, but i am not sure if it's his normal lurkiness or not. But it'is all kind of minor things.  Or i can do really illogical thing and vote for Conq, since he seems to be the towniest, and my towniest reads usually turn out to be scum. =)
Actually let's go with PX.
##Vote PX

[Dorian White]

@conq: you get prodded for not making a vote in this game~ not for holding a vote* in that case were I and raikaria both already in for prods~ which as far as I know didn't happened*
speak of the devil! why do you think it's such a big problem for him to give me the few answers that I want? ^^;
I know town raikaria is stubborn about his reads~ so I give the votepark aspect not that much weight but the fact that he used his misrep mantra to constantly dodge my questions all day makes me think that I nailed down scum here!^^
or am I really the only one who sees the inconsistency in his opinions?^^;

I still see a chance to get the scum in frond of my lynched~ which makes me happy*^^
so don't try to make me sad conq* ^^;

[Conqueror]

4. Prods will be given if a vote has not been made in 24 hours (as a flexible measure of inactivity). Being prodded twice is grounds for modkill.

A: It's flexible. If you're posting content you're obviously active.
B: Holding a vote and doing nothing else is not activity. Any mod would reasonably be expected to prod for that. By unvoting he is "making a vote for no lynch" and is showing some activity instead of none.

Which questions of yours did Raikaria dodge?

[BT]

CF7 really seems to want to make me vote him with stuff like "I may want to vote my townreads because they might turn out scum" as offhand comments. Was about to say I prefer Dormio / Oarfish and therefore swap to Oarfish. PX and Raikaria and anything else shouldn't be wagons. Off to reread a bit.

[BT]

Okay, rereading Oarfish mainly because I want to see if I missed that his reponses to my posts look townish (judging by reactions of other players).

From #253 I'm inferring that Oarfish failed to vote at the end of D1 because he couldn't justify one, be it from town's POV or scum's. Not for lack of trying. Would Town Oarfish really start reading the thread and then abort because it was too hard with the amount of time he had? Dunno, prefer "no" to "yes" because just picking a wagon, even if the choice is weak, is better than not voting at all to avoid being committed to a vote. More fuel to the newbscum theory.

I read it again and I still think Oarfish's dislike of my pubclaim comes out of the blue. Even if he disliked #236, it's a pretty big leap from that to "if he didn't seem like he was rolefishing so much I might guess it was a smokescreen, and there was no twilight visitor". Is this just an Oarfish Thing? It might be. I still think his reaction was uncalled for. "you'll note BT has claimed the ability was nothing to hide, but he hasn't said anything about what it was" - why is that weird? And so on.

By the way, I disagree with how Shadoweh and BT are labeling CF7 as town based on his rolespec post

Still bad in the absense of an opinion on CF7. Where does this come from and why is Oarfish concerned over it and not over CF7 himself?

If [Oarfish is] town, tell me what [he's] doing being generally unhelpful and focusing on things that [he feels] like [he] can push on the spot instead of analyzing the game and scumhunting.

Am I missing something?

##Unvote Dormio
##Vote Oarfish

[Raikaria]

I'm guessing from the lack of discussion about Actiondan that people don't want to lynch him.

Alright; it's basically half 10 and I'm going to sleep soon so I need to make a choice.

O4rfish wagon seems to be growing but I kinda have a good feeling about his later D2; while I feel back about his content before then. Meanwhile CF7/Dormio I don't like their entire content. That's why I see those two wagons above O4rfish. [I don't townread O4rfish; he is just lower on lynch priority. He's like 5th right now, after Dorian, Dormio/CF7; and Actiondan]

With BT unvoting from Dormio I guess the path is clear. I would rather see one of Dormio or CF7 lynched over O4rfish; simply because I get good vibes from his late Day 2; at least in comparison to the other posts on the table from the three primary wagon players. The most likely counterwagon to O4rfish is CF7. I'm not too sure how to justify the CF7 vote without sounding like a parrot of other players, it's mainly their points which convince me [Such as the OMGUS accusations; which I agree with]; aside from me saying I think a lot of CF7's posts lack any real substance despite him being here.

Eh; I hope I'm making the correct choice. I need to make a choice before I sleep and I'd rather be contributing my vote to something meaningful. So I'll vote for the potential lynch candidate which I like the idea of lynching best.

#Unvote
#Vote: CF7

[Raikaria]

Also I consider the points against O4rfish valid; I just find CF7 worse in my opinion.

[BT]

I reread CF7. I'm not comfortable with a CF7 wagon. I still lean towards the "cop and maybe doc" line being a towntell. Here's the quote:

Also i am town. Zak is also town. So it was town/town which is not good, but oh, well. Also i think that aside from cop and maybe doc the rest of the roles are simple VT's.

Again, scum would know if this is true or not, and we already have signs of PR-ness or at least non-VT-ness from... three players? Four if you're speculative? It's much more likely that CF7 is VT and made the observation with that and prior VT claims in mind. Some of the more daunting parts of his posts (the Mitsuki vote, the Oarfish sheep, the reaction to people clearing PX) don't look as bad if you're looking through these lens!

I think a lot of his stances are actually reminiscent of last game's Town CF7 -

Also, current wagons are not appealing to me. Like at all. Shadoweh is likely town. Not so sure about Zakeri, i won't lynch him either.

Also, after reading O4rfish latest posts, i don't think that he's actually scum.
##Unvote

Nice and genuine-sounding.

I think Dormio is actually my preferred vote because if I'm wrong about Oarfish, it's probably one scum out of Oarfish/CF7 and one scum out of... Dormio. He gels well with everyone because he's just sniping bad targets with weak cases. But it doesn't seem like that's gonna happen today.

Cut.

[BT]

Help me figure out what strikes you as town about Oarfish's latest posts.

[BT]

With Raikaria and I, Dormio wagon will have 3 votes. I don't want to split votes needlessly so does a Dormio wagon sound good to people?

[Conqueror]

I prefer Dormio to CF7 but I prefer Oarfish over Dormio.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

A Dormio wagon doesn't sound good to me.

[SB]

Why would VT!CF7 approach PX's claim the way he did though? Saying that someone has an easy fakeclaim that can't be proven is bullshit if you have the same role that they do.

CF7: I don't see what was awfully wrong with Mitsuki's D1 vote considering the time it was made, and if she hasn't had time to actually read up you can't really fault her D2 one either. Going after PX now AFTER his NNR stuff quietened down feels more like desperate scum than town too, why wouldn't you pressure him at the time it was being made rather than waiting until he dropped it in order to attack it?

Sorry Raikaria but Dan and Dorian are town. Is it bad that after last game my reaction is to want to switch my vote the wagon you think is townier? >.>

I can get behind a Dormio wagon but idk if I would prioritize him over CF7 and Oarfish.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

And no Dormio; I'm not chainsaw defending Shadoweh. I'm attacking weak cases.

That all happened to be on Shadoweh.

[Dorian White]

@conq: it was mostly about his analysis of the shadoweh wagon* day one he was clearly suspecting BT~ SB and me for our votes on her* but all that's left of it was the case on me*
I ask him for his current opinion on SB~ forgotten*
I ask him why he sees BT as town now~ nothing*

and raikarias play today brought even more questions~ why the need to give o4rfish a clear now when he never gave a reason why he suspected him in the first place? ^^;
and why this sudden dan vote? which I don't agree with by the way* shouldn't it be SB as the the next one in line on his list of suspects? 0_0
and this inconsistency is the reason why I want him lynched right now~ the misrep case on me is just the noise he makes to hide the fact that he pulls his reads out of his sleeves!^^

are we happy now? cause I am for sure! ^u^

[Mitsuki]

Ok, I'm here for a while. Let me ISO main wagons.

[Mitsuki]

I'd really appreciate to have a new votecount, by the way.