NoTV 2 Mafia (Game Over, Scum and 3rd Party Win)

[Dorian White]

?dorian~ honestly the best way to convince me is simply to form something I see as a better case*?
are you bloody kidding me? I mean isn't that exactly what I ask you to do to begin with?  you had your chance and you failed! <_< so it's still your turn to come up with a case to impress if you want to get rid of my vote*

hoverwer~ there is still no new PM from the mod~ so maybe I got a period of grace until my new cruel fate will be revealed~ or maybe I reached his heart with my last appeal to optimism ^u^ ~ who knows*

@CF7: I see you posting but I still don't see you voting~ how does that comes? ^^;

@BT: well* what I said about PX being bold was more about his scum reads as scum but what do I know~ my PX scum meta knowledge is even more outdated than conqs* but I know that he randomly called shadoweh town before~ so that's no point for town PX*
I would also love to hear why you think raikaria is town in some detail*

[Conqueror]

>It's less than 24 hours to deadline, on D2.
>4 people don't even have votes down.
FFS people.

Read CF7's post now and I see I missed something. Okay, but that doesn't explain why you didn't provide something when you popped in before what would have been the original deadline?


Oarfish popping in just to defend himself and provide NOTHING ELSE  is would lynch tier even with just a cursory comparison to the last game he played (where he was town). In fact I think this is even worse than CF7's nothingness. It doesn't help that I'm getting supreme jitters about Shadoweh. Seriously Shadoweh, where are you?

##Unvote
##Vote: Oarfish

[Conqueror]

Dormio and CF7 are the only other lynches I'll accept. But after thinking about it Oarfish's content this game is more damning than either of them especially when viewed in tandem with his other town games.

I don't view Sky's behaviour change in the same light because his previous frequency of posting was completely out of hand. Even with the limited stuff he's posted in thread this game he still has more content than half the game. I don't agree with 2/3 of his scumpicks but after seeing some of the rest of you people post opinions I feel like I'm only on the same wavelength as a few of you.

Also, I hope Affinity is prodding people with extreme prejudice.

[Conqueror]

Skypal: I unvoted Dormio because his reasoning behind voting PX made him look town.

I am also really interested in what reasoning he discovered for Dormio voting PX when Dormio gave no such reasoning and in fact hasn't done so even retroactively.

[Sky_Paladin]

@Oarfish

Skypal: I unvoted Dormio because his reasoning behind voting PX made him look town.

ORRRRR you didn't want to be caught on Dormio, who was voting PX, if PX flipped scum, right?

I didn't have enough time to decide whether to actually vote PX or not, although I think if I were his buddy I would have made up a reason to vote Zak.

I said this:

Oarfish came in near phase end and unvoted because no real reason when wagons were tied/close/something or other, town should have made a decision.

The one who is assuming you are scum buddies is you, so, I'll take that as confirmation you are buddies with PX.  GG scums, nice knowing you. 

Seems like you would have caught that, if you had done something more logical than ISO other people and then vote me.

That was your ISO.  You had made four posts this game at this point in time so it wasn't exactly hard to do. 
Post 1 - empty vote of Dormio. 
Post 2 - rolefish on PX vig. 
Post 3 - empty unvote on Dormio. 
Post 4 - Flavor spec on Zak, rolespec on Sky/PX vig.   

This is not exactly the stellar representation of towny motivation or scumhunting that I would expect from a town player.  That's okay though, because I don't think you're town

[Sky_Paladin]

@PX

    Please explain why you have an issue with this. 

Other parts of the forums are not mafia. It is lame, not part of mafia.

It has been valid and effective to point out other player's activity in games prior to this one, why is it suddenly bad now? 

   

Why?

Should I defend someone who I think is town? I think Shadoweh is good enough to handle that herself.

I agree.  So I want to know why you want to arbitrarily handwave defend her, and then later say this. 

    Randomly calls me out for flavor gaming. 
My bad, that was Raikaria. Sorry for getting stuff wrong when I was reading it at work on my phone during my lunch break while the forum was breaking everywhere.

No, it was Oarfish lol how coincidental.  Followed up with an empty vote of Dormio.  What, if I didn't call you on it, were you going to vote me for chasing after Oarfish and not pursuing you?  Sheesh. 

***

We don't have a flip on either of PX or Oarfish for alignment matchups but I strongly feel these two are a scumpair.  Jury is still out on Dan but I thought he was bad on the re-read and would sheep Dormio's case if we didn't have basically what is a scumslip from Oarfish imo. 

[Conqueror]

(If Oarfish and PX were a scumpair I'm pretty sure Oarfish would have voted Zak when the wagons were almost tied. I don't think they're a scumpair).

That said, I still think Oarfish is scum.

[Raikaria]

You know it's hard for me to not railroad when I'm the only one posting when I am awake.

Also rail aria can't logic 101. Dorian keeping his vote where it was would have been apathy.  Moving votes to an actual lynch target is proactive.

I still argue that moving the vote is apathy to the lynch while sticking to his guns [PX] and letting there be a decision is a better course of action. If he didn't care who got lynched he shouldn't have voted for either of them, instead of ruining what the majority of people who cared thought and letting it go to RNG.

A PX vote shows he did not support either wagon. His vote where he basically said 'lets leave to to lady luck' shows Dorian did not care who got lynched, or who the rest of the town thought was scummier. The two show entirely different things. To me sticking with PX is actually a better choice if you do not want either party lynched than forceing RNG. Forceing RNG is the ultimate display of apathy towards a lynch. Especially when you say that is your intent.

OK, I may regret this but here we go!

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

May Lady Luck make her choice for the better.^^

I mean seriously. What about this post doesn't scream 'I don't care who gets lynched' to you?

[Raikaria]

Also nice to see I'm not the only one thinking something is up with O4rfish. [I'm sure I mentioned this earlier].

Although atm there are multiple lurkers I would like to lynch lurky behavior for those players is usually normal-ish. It isn't for O4rfish. And usually a stark change in behavior is a scumtell.

I don't think O4rfish is as much of a priority as Dorian is right now [Dorian's done things I do not like; eg: Openly firceing the lynch to RNG; showing he didn't care about the lynch and disregarding the rest of the town's majority at the same time, weak Shadoweh vote, voting me basically for activity when the time posts are falling is really, really unconductive to my timezone.], but he's 2nd or 3rd in my lynch priorities. Unsure where I put CF7 in that list right now.

Also I think it's worth pointing out that while the vibes are not quite as bad, Shadoweh is seeming a noticeably less present. That said, maybe that's a towntell from her, since if I recall her most active games are scum @_@

[Shadoweh]

>_> Sorry, I got stuck at the airport and dealing with guests. I'm catching up and reading now. Only because you miss me so much Conqy.

I didn't visit BT during Twilight.

Just from a cursory look I think Dorian's posting looks obv-effort town (and obv-shroom-induced.) I don't know why Raikaria has such a problem with him, but the bone-headedness Raikaria is arguing with looks typically Long John Silver of him. Honestly, pushing for tied wagons just to test what happens doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

I'm not sure how to feel about CF7 after reading 223: He kind of accdidentally softclaimed himself as a VT. I normally wouldn't go out of my way to mention that, but from a his perspective read it's kind of a glaring townslip to me.

Oarfish, if you visited BT during Twilight you should just say so instead of being obviously paranoid about it. >_> The other option is you being hypersensitive to BT prodding you and attacking his credibility in an incredibly silly way. I haven't looked back at yesterday so one post is a bit short for me to say if this is super scummy but, you should answer if you actually think BT is scummy for this.

Dan looks like Schezo is probably right, since no one seems to have flinched. Being right is a secret towntell for Dan, so etc.

My eyes are dying. I think right now I wouldn't be against voting Oarfish, but I don't really have a handle on anyone better. :/ Sorry you're getting 5am sleepless today, I'll try to actually read what all's out there tomorrow. (case in point: I didn't get why two people were voting Dorian, but it turns out I can't read). For now I'm just going to agree with Conqueror and hope he's not hiding fangs uder that giant head of his

##Vote: Oarfish

[Sky_Paladin]

(If Oarfish and PX were a scumpair I'm pretty sure Oarfish would have voted Zak when the wagons were almost tied. I don't think they're a scumpair).

That's..............................pretty damn solid. 

One day I'll get a scum-association-pick.  It's just not this day. 

I'll stick to just frying Oarfish for now, basted in teriyaki sauce with a side of garlic prawns. 

Dorian, do you have some kind of post restriction?  I noticed your full stops are all stars and you're waiting for a mod pm so, did you break it? 

Anyway, I'll dial my case back on Oarfish to 'empty votes, empty unvotes, unwilling to choose a wagon' as evidence of scummy fear of being unable to justify their actions without lying. 

[Conqueror]

:v people should declare their v/las because it makes it easier for the rest of us. Shadoweh is probably town for that post though?

@Raikaria: I see what you mean and yet I disagree because of the context. The CF7 wagon was a flashwagon 10 minutes to deadline so pretty much everyone on it was #YOLO, and I can see why someone who preferred PX over Zak might switch to CF7 at that point when the PX wagon basically jumped to CF7. And that post doesn't scream I don't care who gets lynched, it screams to me, well, here goes nothing! And I'm pretty sure most of us on the CF7 wagon were hoping for a CF7 flip over a Zak one at that point. >_>

[CF7]

Okay, but that doesn't explain why you didn't provide something when you popped in before what would have been the original deadline?

Because i didn't want to vote for either of Shadoweh or Zak, that is. That's why i said i was at a loss.

Anyway, i am willing to lunch O4rfish into stratosphere.
##Vote O4rfish

[O4rfish]

Anyway, I'll dial my case back on Oarfish to 'empty votes, empty unvotes, unwilling to choose a wagon' as evidence of scummy fear of being unable to justify their actions without lying.

I voted Dormio because of this post.

I unvoted him because of this post.

Claiming them to be empty is a pretty big misrep.
As for unwilling to choose a wagon, I simply didn't have the time to read enough to make a good decision about which of the wagons to vote.

Shadoweh: you'll note BT has claimed the ability was nothing to hide, but he hasn't said anything about what it was. In fact, if he didn't seem like he was rolefishing so much I might guess it was a smokescreen, and there was no twilight visitor.
After all, what is the thing you think of most when you think of twilight (in a mafia game, not books or movies or cartoons)?

[O4rfish]

Conq: remember, my meta is to not be scum ever.

[Sky_Paladin]

Meta:  I think 48 hour day phases are terrible, even more so after day one. 
@mod Can we get 72 hour day phases, please?

[BT]

I like these 48 hour days though. Shrug!

Don't know what Oarfish is getting at. Why is your immediate reaction to think that I'm smokescreening / lying? Why are you replying to some people and ignoring others? Why aren't you voting anyone? Can you claim?

I remember some past game where Oarfish was as useless as he is here but a search of the archives gave me nothing. I'm pretty sure I'm not hallucinating, though. Regardless, on the one hand this Oarfish is pretty different from the Awareness of Color one (people can make sure I'm right about this?) but on the other I'd think first time scum Oarfish would be more active than this.

Anyway, I think I will divulge more info after thinking about it. Someone passed me an item during twilight and I have no idea what it does or if it does anything because of bastard elements. It allows the holder to pass it along with a 100 word message, so the first person told me it's supposed to be good to town and bad to scum, but that's impossible to confirm and even if first person is town it's possible the mod lied, because overnight I got a "vision" that made it out to be a dangerous little thing. I plan to use it as a communication device because I can't confirm any of its other uses if they even exist. Hopefully it's not a hot potato bomb because I'd want to keep it in the possession of town and all.

I wanted the first person to come out because there's no reason not to - he may have a role or may not have one for all anyone knows, and if he's scum I can limit their future courses of action if the information is out here. If Oarfish is the first person then he's being silly by reacting like this, or, you know, scum.

On to other things. I'm reasonably certain all of Raikaria, Sky and Dorian are town. Shadoweh said more or less what I wanted to say on Dorian and Raikaria. Dorian's way of pressing me over and over is something I don't think is coming from scum. Raikaria is slightly obvtown because of what I tried explaining earlier, and usually when Raikaria looks a little town it's equal to saying "Raikaria looks really, really town", because he's usually harder to get a clear read on. Do I need to talk about Sky too? I don't know, instead of trying to find the right words I'll just say that they've convinced me they're good, scumhunting townies, even if you disagree with their arguments. I agree Shadoweh's latest post was good, but now SB is gone somewhere, probably smash.

Didn't Dorian say he failed to target Dormio last night? What's up with that, Dormio? This also ties in with what CF7 said about thinking this game only has a cop and doc - the fact that Dorian and possibly Dormio might have powers already lessens the chance that this game has low power, and as scum CF7 would have been more aware of that kind of thing. So yes, let's not lynch CF7 today, but can the guy please get his opinion on things so I don't feel as horrible about his slot?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Mafia is a thing that I'm meant to be doing, right?
Will drop Dan because I'm cool with Dan's responses to me.
I still don't like Raikaria though.

##Unvote
##Vote Raikaria

Shit like this post makes me really uneasy given that the post in its entirety is basically Raikaria chainsaw defending Shadoweh.
It probably doesn't help that I have bad feelings about Shadoweh as well but that requires further reading.
I'm not really a big fan of Raikaria's Dorian case either and I feel like it's kind of forced.

I could switch to O4rfish but I haven't really read him and the only reason I'd really be switching to O4rfish would be that I like the people who are voting for O4rfish but whatever.

[Bardiche]

Lalafell Rools!      
               
CF7:    Mitsuki, NNR (2)               
Dormio:    BT, PX (2)            
Raikaria:    Dorian, Dormio (2)               
O4rfish:    Sky_Paladin, Conqueror, Shadoweh, CF7 (4)   
Dorian:   Raikaria (1)
Sky Paladin:   SB (1)      

With 14 alive, it's 8 to lynch.         

11 hours until you die~

[BT]

*coughs*

not to forget dormio~ I targeted him last night but it failed~ don't know if I got role blocked or if my  mushrooms just doesn't worked on him~ however he has no idea how much fun he's missing~ nor do I* cause I have no idea what my mushrooms actually do*^^;;

Dormio are you ascetic.

Also your cases are bad. If you have a bad feeling about Shadoweh you have a recent post of hers to talk about. If you want to lynch Raikaria you have his D2 to talk about. All you're putting up is bad opinions on people who are more likely to be town than other certain wagons. This is Dan's "responses" to you; a bit superficial that you're fine with dropping him like that.

[O4rfish]

Don't know what Oarfish is getting at. Why is your immediate reaction to think that I'm smokescreening / lying?

Define "immediate"

I remember some past game where Oarfish was as useless as he is here but a search of the archives gave me nothing. I'm pretty sure I'm not hallucinating, though. Regardless, on the one hand this Oarfish is pretty different from the Awareness of Color one (people can make sure I'm right about this?) but on the other I'd think first time scum Oarfish would be more active than this.

Dormio's game

Didn't Dorian say he failed to target Dormio last night? What's up with that, Dormio?

OMG
##Vote: BT

By the way, I disagree with how Shadoweh and BT are labeling CF7 as town based on his rolespec post

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dormio are you ascetic.

Am I?

If you have a bad feeling about Shadoweh you have a recent post of hers to talk about.

:effort: and I want to go to sleep soon.

If you want to lynch Raikaria you have his D2 to talk about.

But Raikaria's D2 is basically "lolDorian" and I think it looks like bullshit so yeah.

[BT]

Define "immediate"

This part:

In fact, if he didn't seem like he was rolefishing so much I might guess it was a smokescreen, and there was no twilight visitor.

Like the natural reaction to my posts is to think that I'm faking the twilight thing for some reason. What actually happened is out there now - am I still rolefishing or does it not matter?

OMG
##Vote: BT

If you're (general "you") ascetic you want to announce it so roles aren't wasted on you, especially town ones. More information = better for town. If Dormio isn't then it's useful to know that Dorian is essentially claiming roleblocked or some variant.

You disagree with our reads but you're still not supplying any of your own. You've done nothing proactive but these attempts at getting something on me.

[Affinity]

@Sky_Paladin:

Sadly no, it's in da rulez you signed up to!

1. Days are 48 hours long for the first two days, and 72 hours long for subsequent days. All nights are 24 hours long.

There will be 72 hour-days only after tonight.

[O4rfish]

1. N2 is the night of the full moon, when the Scarlets traditionally convert a human into a vampire Mafia Goon (no special abilities). This is the only conversion role in the game. Everyone will be notified in-topic as to whether it is successful.

According to this, there is probably some role which can prevent it from being successful.

Asking for role-related information which could directly influence the decision of the scum team regarding who to induct, would NOT be in town's best interest.

[BT]

I read most of Medaka's D2 and Oarfish's posts weren't that great but had a different air about them? He at least had a clear direction, and then put some serious effort into things, like a list of interactions. And he subbed in on D2. In this game he's done nothing, his immediate suspicion of my twilight thing doesn't make sense unless he's the one who gave me the item and is really paranoid, in which case arguing that "if not for heavy rolefishing I would have thought it was a lie" is extremely bad when he knows it's not a lie.

CUT: Oh. That completely slipped my mind. Okay, your vote makes more sense now. Can you give me your thought process since this day started? You didn't like Sky's post, then you kind of forgot about it, and now you're trying to do this. What about Dormio, or CF7? A few posts ago you disliked how some people townread CF7... without giving your opinion on the CF7 wagon, which is like some weird cheerleading. If you're town, tell me what you're doing being generally unhelpful and focusing on things that you feel like you can push on the spot instead of analyzing the game and scumhunting.

[Raikaria]

Asking for role-related information which could directly influence the decision of the scum team regarding who to induct, would NOT be in town's best interest.

On the topic of asking for role-related information:

Also don't like him pushing for claims as well due to this possibility. Especially since PX had already claimed before in the thread, showing he hadn't even read PX's posts, despite being voting for him.

Due to these factors I think I will start the day voting Dorian.

#Vote: Dorian

A reminder of the rolefishing post:

Here

I like it when people say things I've already said a while later. It's nice.

And Dormio, it's not like much has actually happened Day 2. Half the players are lurking. So of course I'm not going to do much except push Dorian during Day 2 because nothing else is happening. Besides, I mentioned my dislike of O4rfish, although this is wearing off a bit after his more recent posts, although I don't exactly agree with him voting for BT.

[Raikaria]

And no Dormio; I'm not chainsaw defending Shadoweh. I'm attacking weak cases.

[Raikaria]

Also on a completely unrelated note whenever I go onto page 8 it asks me for a password for some random avatar thing.

[SB]

but now SB is gone somewhere, probably smash.

Pretty much. Gonna read back through now.