Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)

[Affinity]

Uh no.  Just because they claimed doesn't mean they agree with everyone claiming sigh. 

If the last remaining mafia is a roleblocker he could roleblock any claimed power role  and conduct the NK at the same time.  Why risk it when it isn't LyLO and 6P, where (for example) a successful protect can stall LyLO for one more day and confirm a townie?  I don't think there's a need to claim unless there's a good reason to.

[WHMZakeri]

Snacks are THE BEST!!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity, Moridin, Sky_Paladin
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 60 hours

Town is guaranteed to live for another day regardless of lynch and nightkill results.

[Lexicat]

Um, is that vote count correct mod?

[Dorian White]

Quick post from work.

@Lucy: I wouldn't ask for your claim if you don't want to claim but when you are town, then you should at least show us some of your "carts" to prove it.

Also, I can agree with a Moridin lynch but I would like to look into his interactions with Raikaria and Bard again and a few other things, when I'm home.

[Moridin]

Already claimed. Still not sure why this ability is considered particularly useful. Nothing stops people from reading the thread during the night, nor writing up a post during it even if they can't post it until the day.

Geez, everyone else gets detailed arguments referencing posts and such, I get vague comments about scummyness and lack of content.

Serala & Dorian are TOWN / Sky is TOWN / Affinity is TOWN is a very reasonable stance at this point. Myself and Lexicat are the only uncertainties, so even if I get lynched today Lexicat will get lynched tomorrow. So a guaranteed TOWN victory? Provided Affinity isn't super sneaky.

##vote Lexicat


----------------
Answering Sky cause I'm a nice guy.

Why the question mark?

...

It indicates mild surprising or confusion I guess?

Is that something "scummy"? Or what are you thinking to get from this question?

When and why did you assume this?  It looks like your vote appeared mid/late day 3, so reality doesn't reflect this excuse.  Please clarify further. 

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127765.html#msg1127765

Why past tense?  Do you no longer think he is town?  Why?

Why were those two 'maybe mafia' (before their claim)? 

Well it doesn't really matter at this point.

Why not Affinity?  Why Dan at all?  Dan is a completely bizarre night kill because his actions are random, unaccountable, and he was the best mislynch for scum to line up in LYLO.  A Dan kill is indicative of a player not aware of the Shrine Maiden meta, which implicates Moridin. 

Except people have mentioned this about ActionDan a few times in both this game and the last.

[Sky_Paladin]

In anticipation of a claim from Lexi. 

##vote Lexicat

[Sky_Paladin]

It seems 3/4 of my post vanished with a hilarious keyboard shortcut error.  What I had written was something like:

Since it's not LYLO, I'll buy that Serela and Dorian are both town/unofficial masons. 

More to come after dinner probably. 

[Serela]

) a successful protect can stall LyLO for one more day and confirm a townie?

Considering Prims was mega obv nk I really doubt we have any conventional protective role. I guess other people might have a different opinion about how likely the Prims nk had been though (he drove both scum lynches pretty hard, esp. bard, was crazy town looking overall, and very active, the other prob-towns didn't really shine a light to that). I don't really care about people other than LLD/Moridin claiming, and yeah LLD should just claim today because no matter what LLD says tomorrow "scum doing last ditch effort in lylo" would be the most likely reaction. Unless she's secretly a protective role but uh?

I guess Affinity/SkyPal don't really need to claim. I'm just not thinking very hard anymore because all the people I think are likely scum are most likely being lynched and I'm just kind of "okay let's get this game wrapped up".

[Serela]

Moridin: (1) Lexicat, Serela

Yeah Zak can you clarify whether or not this is correct? >.>

[Moridin]

By the way, I consider the night 2 to contain the most worthwhile night posts. Anything else I said during the night I could have said during the day. The joke, however, only really works if there is a gap of several hours inbetween.

Just saying cause Sky keeps dissing it.

[Serela]

I went from "OKAY YEAH WE'RE LYNCHING MORIDIN" to "gdi rofl".

ghaghhghahh

Why do I want to give all the must-be-scum town clears? Why can't I just vig someone. Just to make sure. Mafia cannot be too easy though I guess.

[Serela]

That post probably had weird progression, I meant the first sentence as to his joke nightpost thing, the endpart was not explicitly related although yeah I keep wanting to think he's town, that's nothing new. :T He's all new and stuff so I'm going to go with "I don't know how he'd act as scum, let's just lynch it."

[Sky_Paladin]

The role, Moridin, is to help coordinate town by being the first person with the chance to comment in a flip, assign protectors/checks/etc as well as elucidate on scum picks and maybe make a case or two. No role is truly useless and we have a number of vanilla towns who would gladly have had your ability, in sure.

When I wake up I'll go through the game again and try Raik/Bard/Moridin team and Raik/bard/Affinity team and see if I can find a better match than Lexi. 

[Affinity]

Yeah mafia is tough and sad and never set in stone; even Sky could be the last remaining scum anyways.  We should take all outs offered I guess.

Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here[URL] and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

So I think moridin would be the best lynch today.  He complains we don't say anything about him but he doesn't say anything in the first place so it's a fair trade.

I'll throw out possible reasons why Sky is scum for posterity (possible LyLO) later I guess, so don't lynch yet?  It'll be a pain but I think we might be giving him too wide a clear and stuff.

[Affinity]

EBWOP: Yeah mafia is tough and sad and never set in stone; even Sky could be the last remaining scum anyways.  We should take all outs offered I guess.

Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

So I think moridin would be the best lynch today.  He complains we don't say anything about him but he doesn't say anything in the first place so it's a fair trade.

I'll throw out possible reasons why Sky is scum for posterity (possible LyLO) later I guess, so don't lynch yet?  It'll be a pain but I think we might be giving him too wide a clear and stuff.

@mod: could you delete the above post?  T.T

[Moridin]

The role, Moridin, is to help coordinate town by being the first person with the chance to comment in a flip, assign protectors/checks/etc as well as elucidate on scum picks and maybe make a case or two. No role is truly useless and we have a number of vanilla towns who would gladly have had your ability, in sure.

Hmmm...
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17327.msg1127273.html#msg1127273

[Serela]

It's an eclectic type of role that might have been inspired by a nigh-identical one I used in one of my setups here. I don't know if it's ever been used on mafiascum or wherever?

In my setup, the point was after it was announced they powered up, it was assumed they'd pretend to have actually powered up. I even heavily implied that in the rolepm. (Lying about your role as town -can- be done tastefully, even if it's a rather thin line to walk, plus even if you don't it still arouses scum suspicion) For here, well, you'd have to ask Zak postgame.

[WHMZakeri]

It seems you need to practice more ... Try again!

Moridin: (2) Lexicat, Serela
Lexicat: (2) Moridin84, Sky_Paladin

Not voting: Dorian, Affinity,
Four votes needed to Lynch
You have 50 hours

[Dorian White]

So Moridin, you want a old-fashioned case against you? That's something I can help with.

Lets start with your first vote here. Leaving the name confusion aside is it a vote for inactivity, not a big deal at this point but we will soon see a pattern here.
You fixed your vote here as the confusion was cleared, the reason is still the same.
This is actually your first interesting vote. The actual post just shows that you are unfamiliar with the concept of busing but more interesting is that it lacks any reason why you go with Dan now instead of Lucy. You later said that ?lynching ActionDan is a reasonable strategy. On top of trying to pressure him to be useful.? I'll take that as a late agreement on HWs suggested policy, still a vote for inactivity nonetheless.
Your end of the day is as uninspiring as the rest, fence sitting on Raikaria and a quick side note is
all you had for the scum lynch.

You night on the other hand had some points, not that the ?scum slip? or ?HW pushed the counter wagon all day to switched in the last min.? that good but it's shows that you were trying at last. But you ?Levels? make me wonder. 
?Just - There seems to be a case against him due to some meta? This is what caught Raikaria so I'm not going to dismiss it.? What made you think that Raikaria was caught on meta? And what made you trust a case that you apparently didn't even understood at the time?
Also,
?Lexicat - A jackass? Other then I haven't got anything conclusive on him. He hasn't posted much? Didn't you suspected her before you went for Dan? So what in the ?hasn't posted much? was so town that she droped down to Level 2?

You day two vote came a bit late, so why didn't you wanted to vote me right away? If the scum slip was good enough to put me on Level 5 then why wasn't it good enough to vote me? Why waiting for Skys case on me if you had your own reason to suspact me? Cause Level 5 suggest that you had your own reason, doesn't it?
Good, my dispute with Sky may have been confusing for you but this still leaves some questions.
Bard makes quite an ascent here and I wonder why exactly.
And even as you voted him wasn't that because you agree with the cases or ?because you are convinced he is MAFIA? nor that  you are ?convinced Dorion isn't?. No, it's ?because Just hasn't posted very much in day 2? ITT lack of activity. And even the one point you took from the cases were ?lack of effort?, how telling is that?

I guess that's already long enough, so I just summarize the last two days.
Day three you plainly sheeped Affinity on the Schezo wagon. You even looked quite confident what seems kinda odd when I think that you never came around with you own reason why Schezo
is scum nor did you bother to say with what you agree on the cases.
And today is Not-me over me.

Honestly, for someone who thinks that lack of effort makes you scummy are your own efforts quit limited and it gives me the impression that you were just looking for excuses to go with the wagon that strikes you as opportune than actual effort to find scum.
The fact that you mostly idled the nights away doesn't helps here either but I understand that it's hard to present your ideas if you don't have any.

[Sky_Paladin]

TL;DR - I'm content with keeping Affinity in my 'confirmed town' tier, and you should do it too. 

***

Looking for matches for Rai/Bard/Affinity, since Dorian just posted a quite reasonable case on Moridin already.  Note that the purpose of this trawl is to look for matches, so I'm assuming Affinity is scum for this pass and seeing if it 'makes sense'. 

Day 1
Starts by voting Prims.  Prims countervotes.  I question Prims on it.  Affinity votes me for questioning Prims.  Empty unvotes after deciding Sky is OK, then goes back to Prims. 
Bard hops on to Prims very shortly after. 

Actually noticed this in Bard's vote on Prims;
"Suspect LLD may be on to something" random mention of LLD :V

Raikaria asks if Affinity is double voting.  Scumbuddies would know this, so put this in the 'scum noticed a discrepancy and pounced on it' basket. 

Bard again mentioning Affinity, "Huh What doesn't exactly do himself favours in my eyes by voting first Affinity and then me though." 

This random post from Affinity that talks about kindergarten and I don't know what. 

This post from Affinity appears very different, it's serious and most importantly, it's a semi-case and vote on Bard.  Good towny post.  Raikaria then questions again if Affinity has a double post.  Except that Affinity then specifically says bussing is a legit scum tactic in his next real post, here. 

Affinity cautions against a Dan wagon and pings Schezo/Raikaria. 

Affinity pings Raikaria again. 

Affinity pings Bard again. 

Picks apart Raikaria, states preference for Raikaria lynch. 

Lists preferred lynch as flipped scum number 1 and then flipped scum number 2.  So either a really great towny player or bussing his buddies.  However, in this post, Affinity also calls the Dan wagon rotten and basically mandates a lynch of Raikaria, which was unnecessary for scum to do at this point.  I think this is the post where I towncleared Affinity ages ago. 

((LLD votes Raikaria after this point, by the way, the main case for LLD being scum over Affinity)). 

Day 2
Votes Bard immediately and then follows up with a quite reasonable looking case. 

Bard countervotes Affinity around the middle of the day and then hops off shortly afterward.  Affinity continues to pressure Bard/call Bard's points out. 

Bard lynched, Affinity never wavered. 

Affinity was subtly but in a large way responsible for both Raikaria and Bard's lynches.  He's town level is shiny star IMO. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Even though I trust Affinity, I don't agree with him lol. 

Well to talk about my stance on LLD again, I trust her early votes on the wagon D1/2 and I don't buy Sky's reasoning that she did so merely to 'avoid piling onto the same wagon as her other scummates' (we talked it out here and I made my point).  Come on, wagon analysis two days straight should be like a great stalwart thing we can rely on.  It's not something we should give up due to paranoia over her playstyle.

'early votes on the wagon d1/2' that's not what happened.  She voted day 1 as the last person to get on the wagon; Prims had made the case and not yet voted, and Dorian hammered.  This happened in the last 12 hours of the phase.  Day 2 she flipped around voting Moridin for no reason, then Sky for no reason, then settled on Just even though she'd stated she didn't want to lynch Just today, then said she'd lynch Just the day after if we lynched Sky on day 2.  She was the only person adamant that Schezo was town but wouldn't say how she knew this, so she's either a terrible investigator/person, or mafia that didn't want to be caught holding a hot potato. 

Like when you say 'wagon analysis' it's not enough just to look at the final tally and go 'well you lynched scum so you must be town'.  The history clearly shows that Lexi did not vote for any scum until the last possible moment.  When threatened with pressure, her response is the counter vote, threaten, and tries to intimidate town in to doing what she wants, instead of negotiating or discussing.  Her defence is WIFOM and appeal to emotion.  She has done zero scum hunting, has clear positive interactions with both flipped scum, and her only affirmative action this game was to question Dan on his vote against Raikaria (who was scum). 

GIRLS CAN BE SCUM TOO.  Stop white knighting her and look at reality. 

***

That said Moridin is totally scummy and I would lynch him too, I just think Lexi is MORE scummy. 

[Sky_Paladin]

Hmmm...

If it was me I would have run with it.  It's like the ultimate gambit backup. 

***

Lexi is not going to claim guys.  She's stalling, asked Dorian if it was okay to claim, has been online an hour and a half ago, and nothing. 

So what now.  Do we have to put her at L-1, or do we skip to Moridin?  I'm okay with claiming before Affinity; maybe Affinity doesn't need to claim at all.  I'm hoping one of us can counter claim Lexi/Moridin somehow. 

[Serela]

What's putting LLD at l-1 going to do? Me, Affinity, and LLD aren't planning on lynching LLD today so an LLD lynch isn't happening, l-1 to pressure her would be an empty gesture.

Just deal with her claim tomorrow if tomorrow ends up happening, it doesn't really make a big deal imo, since everyone other than Moridin is obvtown so we're not really worried about catching you or skypal or me/dorian in incriminating roleshens and therefore don't really need massclaim.

tl;dr Let's just skip to Moridin.

[Dorian White]

@Sky: Try to see it that way. If Lucy is scum then she will reached a dead end in LyLo, cause no matter who she kills she will be still the most likely lynch of the day.
The only way how town could lose this is that either you or Affinity is the last scum and if that's the case, well played.

@Lucy: My suggestion is still the same. Tell me what good is your secretiveness for if it get's you lynched?

[Sky_Paladin]

Serela

What's putting LLD at l-1 going to do? Me, Affinity, and LLD aren't planning on lynching LLD today so an LLD lynch isn't happening, l-1 to pressure her would be an empty gesture.

In this very game, when ActionDan was threatened for lynch, he suddenly became very very vocal and this was very helpful for town.  Also, you don't actually know what Affinity is going to do, and you historically flip-flop around on your wagons, so a Lexi-lynch is quite possible today. 

since everyone other than Moridin is obvtown

We don't know this for sure.  For example, scum!Affinity *could* have mega bussed his buddies, and scum!me *could* have invested way too much effort in to a game that is obviously won already. 

You are just sitting on your hands going lalala well the game is solved already.  It is not solved.  We don't know who the last scum is.  Perhaps it's Serela, and Dorian had to lie about being given a pm that confirms you or whatever, and he's biding his time for LYLO to kill you off and die for the cause.  I don't know.  We don't know.  The way we find out things we don't know is to test them; and in mafia we test them by questioning. 

If players won't answer questions, if players won't ask questions, we have a deadlock. 

Why are you against Lexi claiming?  According to you, it's game over, town wins either way.  You're so blind to a Moridin only lynch that you won't consider any alternative.  Don't you see how dangerous that is?  I'm not even demanding Lexi's lynch.  I'm asking for town to cooperate and work together, and Lexi doesn't want to.  Why do you think that might be

[Sky_Paladin]

If Lucy is scum then she will reached a dead end in LyLo, cause no matter who she kills she will be still the most likely lynch of the day.

Scum only care about getting to LYLO, not winning.  If they get to LYLO, anything can happen.  That's why we need to lynch right today.  We can't put somebody at L-1 tomorrow to test them, because if we're wrong, that's GG. 

Today is our last chance. 

[Affinity]

Now Sky, that counter/summary actually sounds pretty solid.  I'll keep it in mind, though I think LLD voting for scum late is better than not voting at all, especially on D1 when all Dan needed was one more vote to get lynched.  If it does come down to a LLD vs Sky battle, I think she has her D1 conduct over yours at least.

You may have explained it already, but, Sky, what happened to your Dorian case after D2/3?

[Serela]

You're crazy misinterpreting my actions. What I'm saying is that putting LLD at l-1 isn't going to do anything when everyone else is quite aware LLD is not actually going to be lynched today. Affinity has proclaimed what I interpreted as a strong belief LLD is town due to vote placement in the first two days so I think it's safe to say he's not planning on lynching her over Moridin just because? And no, I'm pretty sure at this point I want Moridin lynched today, not LLD; my waffles have settled into their final positions barring something really unexpected happening.

I do think LLD should claim but I don't really care whether it's today or tomorrow so if she's going to refuse claiming right now then whatever.

You or Affinity ~*~could~*~ be scum but I've already quite considered these possibilities and come to the conclusion that I firmly believe you two are far more likely to be town than Moridin or LLD. I've justified these stances in previous posts, it's not just gut feelings. When other people review them they also come to the conclusion Affinity is quite town.

I've already solved it as thoroughly as I think things can be solved in my position. If I'm wrong, than either you or Affinity did a good job and deserve the win. Now, as for what happens in 3p lylo with Affinity/LLD/SkyPal, I can't say, but... there's nothing I can really do about lylo unless scum decides I get to live to there.

[Serela]

Affinity what is your stance on SkyPal for clarification? Since I imagine lylo is going to be you/lld/sky.

[Affinity]

I prefer to keep that a secret.  >_>