Rhythm Heaven Mafia (Superb)

[BT]

Raikaria opens the second day with the realization that there are things he does not like... like LLD's attitude. Alright, not impossible, but the "totally up for it" attitude feels kind of smug when you're just quoting someone's posts and adding "weird confirmation post defense".

I said his take on Sky was wishy-washy. I think there's some artistic merit in it so I'll use colors:

I don't like anyone who used 'Fence Sitting' as an actual case. Because it's stupid and smells of just making up any reason to lynch people. I'm looking at Sky_Paladin and Bard here. People using confirmation posts as reasons people are scum is also bad especially when they do not explain how that post is scummy [Actiondan and Sky]

CF7's reason for voting Sky_Paladin isn't in CF7's vote post. It's the post after it. [#58] Yet Sky gets the impression he is being voted because of his avatar? Honestly; if CF7 was voting people for having a youkai avatar I'd have a noose around my neck already because my avatar is a youkai youkai and not a fairy.

Although; on the other hand; apparently it took 20 minutes for CF7 to post three lines about why he was actually voting Sky. So... IDK.

Sky also seems to severely over-react to CF7's vote on him [See: The wall he made, although it was a drunkpost]. But this is somewhat regular for Sky. I don't like the 'Prims ended RVS early he's bad' thing either.

Aside from how Raikaria could have brought this all up while he was "mulling over it" the day before, the vote is pretty shallow. It's a detached comment on suddenly "disliking arguments X, Y, Z" (again, why didn't this show up yesterday?) and how Sky overreacted.

I still believe "I don't particularly like Schezo's content and such still" is Raikaria slipping up in an attempt at holding a Schezo suspicion for later use. Raikaria rectifies: "my dislike for Schezo was 'weak' but he hasn't improved on it". C'mon man, the only reason you parked on Schezo for 24 hours was because I nagged you to. In the first place I think it was dumb that you had to assert that Schezo is misrepping you for rightfully calling you out for disengaging with the post-RVS stuff. Who cares what noncommital things you said about the wagons as a whole? The intent was clear.

But no, Raikaria still doesn't like Schezo's content. It's so general and easy. Raikaria explains his dissatisfaction with Schezo later and it's just a comment on what Schezo's been saying on him. It's a double standard only if you're a lurker too. Except you've been around, commenting on things without reaching conclusions and later saying you were "busy". That's more on the "active lurker" side.

Also I'm not voting Sky because I want to see what he does in the future. While his cases have been bad and he over-reacted IMO to CF7's vote on him, I do think it could be town intent, if somewhat misguided. While I think Sky is bad atm I think there could be town intent. I don't see that in Lexicat's posts really.

Tell me more about Sky's town misguided town intent and how it gels with his "overreactions". And how you don't see it in LLD's posts.

[BT]

Bard's post doesn't add anything insightful, mostly agreeing/disagreeing and replying to arguments. Raikaria is one of the only suspicions of his I remember but he just opts to vote Dan over him after fleshing out the Raikaria read further and saying Dan isn't playing the game. Which is it, by the way? Is Dan more "not playing the game" than scummy, or is he "not playing the game", therefore just like last game? It feels like a weak way to find something more in Dan's non-content and I don't see why he isn't voting Raikaria.

[BT]

I agree re: BT's vote on me being weird chiefly because the reason for voting me is buried in all his other observations and reads, such that it seems an after-thought that he has reason to actually vote me. Feels more like a throw-away vote because he could than a genuine one, simply because his attention is so much more on other people and his only reason is "I agree with Huh What". Unlike BT, I don't remember every Mafia game. Remembering the last game is already unpleasant. "I don't buy his case" is, um, if everyone who's made a case I disagree with is scummy then I'm pretty sure we don't have enough lynches.

By the way: not "buying it" refers to not believing it's legit, as in, thinking it's fake. My vote on you wasn't orthodox but I think I did make it as clear as possible, so this seems funny. Do you draw any conclusions from this or are you just pointing out my weird vote?

Dorian is next.

[BT]

Dorian hasn't done much at all. His Schezo vote rides on his "eager voteswitch" and how other people said his Raikaria vote is unimpressive. Guess what: this vote isn't impressive either, especially when you  don't have other suspects.

What do you think about Sky? You only said he's "biased", which is how you'd refer to Town here.

Your response to Bard's wagon irks me too; Affinity's vote wasn't hard to parse, at the very least.

[BT]

In fact: Sky, you said you found it weird that Dorian didn't react to your vote, but in a Town way. (judging from context) I think Dorian's pretty aggressive against people voting him when he's Town; I know from experience. I think it's notable that he didn't tear apart your potshot theory.

[BT]

As per Bard's recommendation I checked last game's D1 and Raikaria is a lot more direct, has solid, clear opinions and easily reacts to the thread and finds things to talk about. Question: you got made fun of for being fooled by scum last game. Was your response to be less eager as Town for the next game?

[Sky_Paladin]

BT - I expected Dorian to respond to my case. The confirm post is one part. The Dan policy lynch fence sitting was another part. Dorian chose to hand wave it away as nonsensical. I didn't have an opportunity to follow this up because I am in my iPhone and its too difficult to quote, check and post. I just read the thread and sniff for clues. I wasn't satisfied with Dorians content which is why I am still voting him and listed him as scum in my last blarble.  I think Dorian is scum, I don't feel like anybody beleives me though.

The reason I would lynch Dan over other afk people is multiple.
1 - Dan is chronically afk and it seems like every game on LYLO or the day before LYLO there is a big jama over not knowing his alignment due to lack of posting. It's a problem.
2 - Dan his strategy is to lurk, we want to do, discourage this anti social tendency by lynching lurkers. In any case he can always get out by posting content.
3 - this game he already posted and had no comment on the three or four things that were happening and made no effort. It frustrates me。

I thought I would have a good chance to go through the thread. I don't. I am on holiday and sent v/la to mod but igurss it was too drink post lol. At this stage I am willing so sheep BT on Raikaria because I think BT is town. I am suspiciois of Bard voting Dan over Rai.

I am going to have to break my promise of more content to come this day phase. I will be home for the next one.

[Bardiche]

I'm voting Dan because Dan is replicating his behaviour from the last game where he was Scum, and to be quite frank I'm sick of people who sign up to play and then consequently refuse to do so.

[BT]

Now I'm confused.

I didn't expect you to ignore my case and vote for some other guy though.  Ill have to srot this mess out when I havel ess alcohol.

Here, didn't you see it as a town-y think Dorian did? Also Dorian isn't getting lynched today so get on a wagon before you disappear.

[BT]

EBWOP: thing, not think

Dan was online an hour ago. This is pretty dumb.

[Raikaria]

As per Bard's recommendation I checked last game's D1 and Raikaria is a lot more direct, has solid, clear opinions and easily reacts to the thread and finds things to talk about. Question: you got made fun of for being fooled by scum last game. Was your response to be less eager as Town for the next game?

My confidence has taken a knock. So yes. I guess that could be why I'm less eager.

"I'm a little salty that Affinity unvoted from what may have been a double-vote just before the votecount came along." This line makes Raikaria's fascination with Affinity's doublevote look fake. Why are you mad that we couldn't confirm Affinity's theoretical doublevote? Why would Affinity show off the doublevote in the first place, then unvote? Raikaria doesn't really question Affinity on this doublevote stuff and doesn't press him when he doesn't; it's just there as townie-looking filler.

It's not townie-looking filler. I thought Affinity was voting two different people. I was waiting for the votecount for that to be confirmed or denied. That sort of role is non-indicative of town or scum, but it's still something useful to know.

Of course I'm a moron who thought Affinity was voting for two different people, not Prims in two different ways.

Tell me more about Sky's town misguided town intent and how it gels with his "overreactions". And how you don't see it in LLD's posts.

Sky's has misguided town intent because he is at least attempting to form cases and look for scum. It's not great and I don't like his Dorian case one bit but he could he a townie just making bad cases. Sky does this quite a lot. He also tends to over-react to votes. Lexicat is basically doing nothing at all. He even outright says 'I don't have anything.'

I still believe "I don't particularly like Schezo's content and such still" is Raikaria slipping up in an attempt at holding a Schezo suspicion for later use. Raikaria rectifies: "my dislike for Schezo was 'weak' but he hasn't improved on it". C'mon man, the only reason you parked on Schezo for 24 hours was because I nagged you to. In the first place I think it was dumb that you had to assert that Schezo is misrepping you for rightfully calling you out for disengaging with the post-RVS stuff. Who cares what noncommital things you said about the wagons as a whole? The intent was clear.

But no, Raikaria still doesn't like Schezo's content. It's so general and easy. Raikaria explains his dissatisfaction with Schezo later and it's just a comment on what Schezo's been saying on him. It's a double standard only if you're a lurker too. Except you've been around, commenting on things without reaching conclusions and later saying you were "busy". That's more on the "active lurker" side.

I have already explained why I do not like Schezo's posts. I have nothing else to say on the matter. You're free to think whatever you think about my read on Schezo. I do not think highly of his content so far and he has yet to do anything which in my eyes makes he recover from his somewhat bad first impression he gave me this game. I'm allowed to say I have a minor scumread on someone but a stronger one on other people. I probobly will not be swapping back to Schezo unless he does something really bad or both Sky and Lexicat impress me, while no-one else slips up.

I mean, here you're basically hammering me for sharing my scumreads? It's a weak scumread but people want reads so I'm giving reads. It feels like you're giving me a catch-22 situation here.

And no; Schezo is advocating a double standard by saying a Lurker Lynch is not going to happen, when his case on me is a lack of content; also known as lurking. He can't dismiss one wagon as 'lurker lynches are not happening' and then push on me for lack of content.

And you know when I am evaluating cases I tend to say things on both sides of arguments. I consider the whole argument, I do not just look at one side. Hence the blue and red stuff you highlighted.

[Sky_Paladin]

BT - I didn't think it was towny, I thought town would...I don't know, do something. I didn't think it was telling either way really. I put out a case and the response was essentially "lol" I think anybody would be unimpressed with that
If Dan can't be bothered to post at this junction I can't be bothered to waste any more time on him. Apologies to Bard for now essentially doing the same thing I just criticized him for.

## unvote
##vote ActionDan

[Dorian White]

...
Dorian you think I made a serious vote 1 page into the game.  The Raikaria vote has something even if it's "easy" to make.  I had no reason to keep an rvs vote, u srs?
And my Raikaria vote isn't even a prod, just lynch him already.  Promising future content is cheep talk.
...

Yes, you followed a proposal that you recognized as serious, so that was indeed what I was thinking. And it's needless to say that you hand waving it away as RVS is the last thing I want to hear. I mean what should I think now about your recent Dan vote? Was that another ?LOL, lets go with it!??
I'm begin to get comfortable with where my vote is.

@Sky: What is the meaning of this post? You see, the idea of you getting biased and confident in the ?nonsense? that you call a case, is something I can live with. But you going for consolidation over me is something that that really seems ?out of character?.
So, can you tell me why you prefer a Raikaria lunch over the scums that you apparently ?caught red-handed??

one last thing, everybody being willing to lynch Dan isn't really reason to be cautious about the wagon here @affinity because seriously, how are scum going to justify saving him right now?

I may not Affinity but that's relevant for me too. I assume that scum's able to ?saving him? the same way anyone else could, by pointing out the fact that Dan not caring about the game doesn't means he's scum.
Also, let's say we lynched Dan and he ?flipped something?, what do you hope to get out of this ?general agreement??
And I would like to see Bard addressing that point too.

@Moridin: I was wondering, cause it seems that you just claimed to have something to say. Sure, I could see you getting frustrated about it but there is still the point that you were also worried about getting counter claimed. So tell me, why did you think that scum would counter claim a role you see as pointless to begin with that's also easy to prove to top it?


I should get this out before I go to BTs twitter outburst.
My currently preferred lunch would be Schezo for ?LOL wagoning?, Sky for inconsistency and to a much lesser degree Moridin for active lurking.

[Affinity]

So that's L-2.

Sorry about not clarifying earlier Raikaria it kinda skipped my mind while I was typing up a post and I forgot about it.  Not willing to put that against him though.

Bard's last post is really unimpressive in that I don't know what happened to his huhwhat suspicion.  He summarizes the cases on others, finds them all suspicious and chooses ActionDan arbitrarily.  And most infuriatingly he approaches none of them with the vigor he showed against huhwhat.  It's like he went into the argument with the latter just for it's own sake.

I would really prefer his lynch most today but maybe that's not gonna happen.

[WHMZakeri]

You missed more in the slow parts.
...But your syncopation sounded great!

ActionDan: (5) Moridin84, CF7, Prims, Just, Sky Paladin (L-2)
Raikaria: (3) ActionDan, Schezo, BT,
Just: (1) Affinity
Prims: (1) Lexicat
Schezo: (1) Dorian
Lexicat: (1) Raikaria

7 Votes needed for Majority
Less than 8 hours left

[Raikaria]

I guess I'll vote Actiondan if deadline rolls around. I have no qualms about lynching him for his chronic lurking. Just... not a lot to say about NoActionDan.

[Affinity]

Just saying that I prefer the Raikaria lynch or even the LLD lynch much more than the Dan lynch. 

I'm actually quite torn on Raikaria.  While I don't buy everything in the case against him, I have to agree that his D2 hireachy of scum suspects: Schezo < Paladin < LLD, feels weird and arbitrary.  As BT says in his red/blue post, Raikaria's opinion on Sky_Paladin is actually multi-faceted, which is fine. But then, since he can see the town side of Sky, why does he place him before Schezo, who he was chasing the whole of D1 and whom he had only bad things to say?

I can forgive his ignorance of other issues on day one such as the Bard/huhwhat fight and stuff, since other people think so too, but yeah, his hanging out with the small fishies doesn't bring anything redeeming.

[Affinity]

I think the Dan wagon is rotten.  The player slot is rotten (and probably deserves a yellow/red card for now), and the people on it are rotten. 

First of all, the bandwagon's saturated, almost everyone except Dorian has stated their willingness to vote Dan.  Being on or off this wagon doesn't really provide much of a distinction, and the bandwagon analysis on D2 will be quite useless on the ensuing flip.

Secondly, it is interesting to consider that Sky_Paladin, CF7, miordin and Bardiche have all voted for ActionDan without considering Lexicat, who boasts a similar amount of content.  Why is this so?  Why Dan over LLD?  Only huhwhat has provided a reason, and it's based on arcane meta-tells that no one else understands.  I know Lexicat has had the reputation of being unpleasant when voted, but three of the people on the wagon can't know that well.  I don't think the wagon has been well-thought out.

By all means, Dan should claim, but I think people should take the above into consideration.  Would still love to lynch Bard, but Raikaria is the better relevant lynch for today.

##Unvote
##Vote: Raikaria

[BT]

Echoing Affinity. I'm willing to vote Dan but it's really sketchy; the only valid reason I see is that he literally ejected from reading the thread on page 4, but that's not that telling. It's basically an "I got nothing better lynch", and 1) I do have better things, 2) it disturbs me that many on the wagon apparently don't.

I'll get to Raikaria's defense but it hasn't wowed me. It counters specific points with explanations that don't really satisfy. Like, I still prefer my take on things.

Dorian's latest post feels slimy, probably because of the way he furthers his reads. It's just... detached, disagreeable, a little overblown/sensational, more in line with what I remember from Scum Dorian in that one game with the Serela/Affinity/Dorian scumteam.

[Raikaria]

Just saying that I prefer the Raikaria lynch or even the LLD lynch much more than the Dan lynch. 

I'm actually quite torn on Raikaria.  While I don't buy everything in the case against him, I have to agree that his D2 hireachy of scum suspects: Schezo < Paladin < LLD, feels weird and arbitrary.  As BT says in his red/blue post, Raikaria's opinion on Sky_Paladin is actually multi-faceted, which is fine. But then, since he can see the town side of Sky, why does he place him before Schezo, who he was chasing the whole of D1 and whom he had only bad things to say?

I can forgive his ignorance of other issues on day one such as the Bard/huhwhat fight and stuff, since other people think so too, but yeah, his hanging out with the small fishies doesn't bring anything redeeming.

Not sure why you're voting me when you are 'torn' on me and think the Dan slot is 'rotten'.

I think Sky is worse than Schezo because I feel Sky's cases are worse than Schezo's after thinking about it and sleeping. Yesterday I was busy and didn't actually have that much time to think things over. I only said stuff about Schezo when prodded to do something, after all. I basically feel that Sky's Dorian case and reaction to being voted is worse than Schezo's [in my eyes] minor misrep and slight tunneling.

I'll get to Raikaria's defense but it hasn't wowed me. It counters specific points with explanations that don't really satisfy. Like, I still prefer my take on things.

Well I'd prefer to look for sum than defend myself all the time. But it's Day 1. Town people slap each other and scum sit around and laugh. It's hard to find scum D1 by looking at their posts because of this. Lurkscum usually actually are scum D1.

[Raikaria]

Hell; look at the level of your own content and Serela and Mordin last game.

Not exactly high. Especially compared to normal. Especially comparing this game to last game. You are FAR more active this game than last BT. I had not just the main topic but my quicktopic with !ScumBT last game. I'm actually townreading you pretty heavily despite you attacking me for a large part due to your activity level compared to your last game where you were scum.

Scum lurk. It's a pretty proven fact here.

[BT]

It's not townie-looking filler. I thought Affinity was voting two different people. I was waiting for the votecount for that to be confirmed or denied. That sort of role is non-indicative of town or scum, but it's still something useful to know.

Of course I'm a moron who thought Affinity was voting for two different people, not Prims in two different ways.

Eh, I believe you that you thought Affinity had something but you didn't actually go anywhere with it. Why didn't you press Affinity if you cared? The "aww, he unvoted" thing rubbed me the wrong way because it's like, "yeah, so?"

Sky's has misguided town intent because he is at least attempting to form cases and look for scum. It's not great and I don't like his Dorian case one bit but he could he a townie just making bad cases. Sky does this quite a lot. He also tends to over-react to votes. Lexicat is basically doing nothing at all. He even outright says 'I don't have anything.'

You can use this defense on anyone who's attempting to play the game. LLD's easier for you to push (or Sky harder) at this juncture because she isn't playing. This "town mindset" thing sounds like you aren't actually looking at Sky's effort, just stating that the effort is there.

I have already explained why I do not like Schezo's posts. I have nothing else to say on the matter. You're free to think whatever you think about my read on Schezo. I do not think highly of his content so far and he has yet to do anything which in my eyes makes he recover from his somewhat bad first impression he gave me this game. I'm allowed to say I have a minor scumread on someone but a stronger one on other people. I probobly will not be swapping back to Schezo unless he does something really bad or both Sky and Lexicat impress me, while no-one else slips up.

I mean, here you're basically hammering me for sharing my scumreads? It's a weak scumread but people want reads so I'm giving reads. It feels like you're giving me a catch-22 situation here.

I'm not attacking you for naming a weak scumread, I'm attacking you for what looks like a fake weak scumread. Bleh, this admittedly isn't that strong. I don't like this defense though, you're saying I'm slamming you for naming the read when that's obviously not the case.

Finally:

And you know when I am evaluating cases I tend to say things on both sides of arguments. I consider the whole argument, I do not just look at one side. Hence the blue and red stuff you highlighted.

There's a different between balancing your opinion and offsetting each of your points with "yeah, but", which I find is a common scum move, it gives you wriggle room and stuff and you come off as someone who's unsure of anything.

CUT: I got cut!

[BT]

Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

I'm also not the biggest fan of "dude, the lurkers" because, yes, there are lurkers, but come on. If you want to start talking about content levels, I think Bard was more active last game. And Schezo was probably less active. And you were more active.

[BT]

Can we get a replacement for Dan and have two normal wagons today? Please?

[Moridin]

@Moridin: I was wondering, cause it seems that you just claimed to have something to say. Sure, I could see you getting frustrated about it but there is still the point that you were also worried about getting counter claimed. So tell me, why did you think that scum would counter claim a role you see as pointless to begin with that's also easy to prove to top it?

I wasn't seriously worried about being counter claimed. I just noticed an explicit statement in my role PM stating I was the only one with this ability, so I just included it in.

So is my role useful then? It seems pointless to me and no one has really said otherwise.

Secondly, it is interesting to consider that Sky_Paladin, CF7, miordin and Bardiche have all voted for ActionDan without considering Lexicat, who boasts a similar amount of content.  Why is this so?  Why Dan over LLD?  Only huhwhat has provided a reason, and it's based on arcane meta-tells that no one else understands.  I know Lexicat has had the reputation of being unpleasant when voted, but three of the people on the wagon can't know that well.  I don't think the wagon has been well-thought out.

I actually did vote for Lexicat originally. I switched to Action because of the "strategy" I talked about before. Admittedly, if ActionDan wasn't so inactive, I might not be as willing to lynch him.

So anyway.

The two main people against this ActionDan lynch are Affinity and BT.

They both claim that they aren't against a ActionDan lynch, that they just think Raikaria is a better target. However, it is possible that it is just an excuse and that in reality they want to redirect the ActionDan lynch onto someone else and Raikaria seems the next best thing.

So if ActionDan comes up MAFIA, I'd be inclined to think that Prims is TOWN  and that Affinity and/or BT are MAFIA.

[Affinity]

I actually did vote for Lexicat originally. I switched to Action because of the "strategy" I talked about before. Admittedly, if ActionDan wasn't so inactive, I might not be as willing to lynch him

fair enough

So if ActionDan comes up MAFIA, I'd be inclined to think that Prims is TOWN  and that Affinity and/or BT are MAFIA.

and if raikaria flips scum the converse is true and everyone else is scummy!

woah mafia is so easy!

what do YOU think of the raikaria case, moridin?

[Affinity]

man raikaria's superficial.  im disheartened.

[Raikaria]

Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

I'm also not the biggest fan of "dude, the lurkers" because, yes, there are lurkers, but come on. If you want to start talking about content levels, I think Bard was more active last game. And Schezo was probably less active. And you were more active.

I'd say Schezo's about the same actually. Bard is less active.

But the difference between your scum activity levels and what I assume is your town activity levels being displayed here is massive BT. I must remember for the future if you're lurking it's a huge scumtell in your regard.

Affinity why am I being superficial when I'm pointing out common MotK meta and even player meta?

[Raikaria]

Hmm, you say you thought about Sky and Schezo overnight, but you didn't really scumread Sky until this morning. What's up?

Because I hadn't made my mind up where I stood on the Sky interactions and who was worse yet. Not gonna state opinions on who's worse at a time where I am not sure BT.

Also with less than 5 hours left and me being the secondary wagon I think it's time for me to put ActionDan at L-1. Maybe he'll show up and do something useful at L-1. Who knows. I'm fine with this because he's lurking to the max but it's also Not Me Over Me.

#Unvote
#Vote: ActionDan

[Raikaria]

Also deadline being at like 1am my local time means I won't be around if I hold off.