Night of the Vampire Mafia: Happily Ever After

[Bardiche]

If Morphine is really one of your commands to use, I should hope that if you draw a power role in the future, you'll spend more thought about who to action on.

Capt H, roles can have two powers or more. I told you. No role crunch. Go hunt scums. If you have a power that activates with the Morphine command, then you really ought've thought about it better (and why not use it on Shadoweh who you accuse of being scum? (she is scum btw)). If that was a bluff, that's cute.

[Bardiche]

No, Shadoweh, I am asking why the act of Chaore visiting UK would imply that Kiro could make Chaore look "townier". You now realise that you were wrong on that account, which is pleasant because I won't have to point it out. :[

[WHMZakeri]

Don't mind Shadoweh, She's just trying to push the lynch onto Schezo to help cover up her new scum buddies. :V

Capt H, please don't tell me you're basing an entire suspicion, complete with role action, on the fact that Bardiche fakeclaimed dayvig. Even without the use of Logic, I can prove to you Bardiche is not the Vig.

Cut: Because Capt H is claiming, or, well to me he looks like he's claiming to be using a role that involve him sacrificing himself. Considering my pet theory behind Kiro's unexplained death, and a few other factors I'm not willing to share, It makes sense to me that Capt H would have such a role. I also want to know what he thinks he's doing with the role.

Cut by Shadoweh: I might as well just throw this out there, since there's no more waiting to be had. I believe Kiro used a role that forced him to kill himself as a result of the action happening. I also think Kiro used this role as scum, and therefore completely lied about the Watcher claim. The claim was nice because 1. It would involve something that he would have to answer to the next day, and 2. Much to the surprise of town, He wouldn't be here the next day anyway. The most likely thing that the role would be would be the alignment change, hence why my very first post of the game had me "Assuming Kiro isn't a Yakuza (role from the Epic Mafia site, where scum kill themselves to transform another townie into scum". The explanation for Kiro's lack of flip is, according to this explanation, the result of Kiro dying as per his role, instead of lynching him like was almost going to happen.

I'm putting this theory forward as the only theory that makes any sort of logical sense. If you want to continue to push "Lol, Affinity lied" forward, and that Kiro is town, then go right ahead, but I'm tired of hearing it now.

Cut by Capt H: Fuck. If you really had something, that would have been nice, but just ... no. I thought you had some sort of insight that would totally flip my theory around, so I was interested, but this is just pancake stuck to the ceiling.

[capt. h]

Zak - your theory assumes a maximum of two scum at any given time among 14 players. Not likely.

Truth be told, I mostly just wanted to see how he would react. I don't have a suicidal superpower. I just can't finish the game day (and never could, I was only supposed to be a temp for Dorian), and I'm getting mod killed because I can't finish the day, and Dorian won't replace in. Basically, my player slot will die before the lynch, and want my flip to be as useful as possible information wise.

[Bardiche]

Then just a hint to light on, capt h - while I assure that I have had no dealings in the murder of Kiro, I note that I ejaculated at the start of the day that "I trust whoever killed him will inform us as necessary" - if I were the killer myself, that alone should have been hint enough that I should share it when I deemed it necessary.

In this case I would deem it the highest level of priority, and find that Zak's explanation makes a frightful amount of sense. Town is already dealt a blow in a sense by a conversion, to make it cost scum would not be the strangest thing... and to deny town any information would make the non-flip purely anti-town, as it confirms no suspicions and lends no information to derive wagons from.

Now then! I'll probably find myself voting Shadoweh as per my earlier case, for she still hasn't improved, but I also want Chaore to put some votes in because Hanged Hourai makes observations that I find stunning on his part but they ring quite true.

[capt. h]

Anyway, the simplest answer to the NK to me is that it's an SK of some sort. We already had at least two information roles, so piling a vig on top of it doesn't make sense, although could be scum. I know Bard has some unorthodox practices before (once claiming the NK AS SCUM), so the fact that he immediately claimed a vig shot at the beginning of the game, and there actually is an extra kill floating around, made me think of him. I figured he could use some pressure, knock some info out of him.

[WHMZakeri]

Zak - your theory assumes a maximum of two scum at any given time among 14 players. Not likely.

Truth be told, I mostly just wanted to see how he would react. I don't have a suicidal superpower. I just can't finish the game day (and never could, I was only supposed to be a temp for Dorian), and I'm getting mod killed because I can't finish the day, and Dorian won't replace in. Basically, my player slot will die before the lynch, and want my flip to be as useful as possible information wise.

Unless the game started with three scum.

Well, there's better ways to dig up information than fake vigging on such weak reasoning. Like, I dunno, fakevigging on good reasoning. Or just, providing good reasoning. But whatever. I'm in a state of disappointment not unlike that of when a child realizes that the performance of a magic trick they just watched doesn't actually involve real magic.

[Bardiche]

Anyway, the simplest answer to the NK to me is that it's an SK of some sort. We already had at least two information roles, so piling a vig on top of it doesn't make sense, although could be scum. I know Bard has some unorthodox practices before (once claiming the NK AS SCUM), so the fact that he immediately claimed a vig shot at the beginning of the game, and there actually is an extra kill floating around, made me think of him. I figured he could use some pressure, knock some info out of him.

If I find my nightly escapades are any way obtrused by your actions I will have your head in the post-game. :toot:

[WHMZakeri]

Re: Bardiche and the Mysterious NightKill Claim
The key difference between Bard's claim that game, and Bard's claim this game is that a person died in the previous game. Shadoweh is, in fact, still alive now.

[capt. h]

Re: Bardiche and the Mysterious NightKill Claim
The key difference between Bard's claim that game, and Bard's claim this game is that a person died in the previous game. Shadoweh is, in fact, still alive now.

Are you really saying that we would be able to tell if Bard was the NK because he would call his kills every game?

[Shadoweh]

Don't mind Shadoweh, She's just trying to push the lynch onto Schezo to help cover up her new scum buddies. :V

Don't be daft. According to you I just swung a lynch from the scum recruiter to a town power role. I'd be less pickable then PX if he were still alive. I want to lynch Schezo because I think he is scum thank you kindly.

On Yakuza.. I don't see this on the other wiki but they seem to mention some games where a Yakuza tries to recruit, uhm. Do they normally flip as null? Can you link me to this power description?

Bard you jerk stop trying to vote for me. Your case on me involved too kawaii desu 4 u and a bunch of random nonsense.

[WHMZakeri]

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Yakuza

Normally, no, but I can easily see someone adding that in as a form of balance.
It's also possible that there is a Janitor, and through a loophole in how Janitors work, he might have chosen to clean up the body of a Yakuza.

Also, I'm not getting we're people are pulling "PX is a role" out of, considering LLD proved that people with roles who flip have their details posted, and PX had no relevant details posted.

[Shadoweh]

You're right, Sakuya the Night Hunter Vampire sounds completely vanilla. Or maybe it's because I'm a Vanilla Town human and I am SO GODDAMN JEALOUS OF YOU PEOPLE AND YOUR GOD DAMN POWER ROLES.

[Shadoweh]

Here since it's not obvious to the rest of you, this is why I didn't like PX's claim. He just claimed boring Vanilla Town. Here's huh what's claim.

One more thing. I'm Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Vanilla Townie and human.

Kiro did the same thing as PX. You want some amazing deductive reasoning from me for why I did this thing, when I got everyone revved up to lynch Kiro in the first place, but I paniced at his claim, thought we could sort it out the next day, and went for the other person that I thought was lying. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.

[Chaore]

@Bardiche: After... painfully reading the wagon again and again, I believe there is indeed probably at least one scum on Kiro's wagon, yes. The wagon is so absurdly weird I don't think that scum could honestly have had the idea to do it by themselves. I do honestly think that if they had the chance, they -would- hop onto the wagon even knowing it'll flip town. Looking with this in mind, I'd actually say Conqueror looks the worst in that regard- While you've got your whole 'hate everything' and I'm not really sure where along the line you decided you were convinced with Kiro is scum, Conqueror doesn't seem like he should have this much reservation for some reason. It mostly comes for when he says he doesn't want a Kiro lynch- His posts don't read 'I'd prefer not to lynch Kiro because I like PX better', it reads as 'I don't want to lynch Kiro because I don't think it'd work out or because the rest of the game isn't here and would look poorly on it'. This literally implies that PX looks worse to him, yet he waits a good long while after the wagon is made to switch. His hesitation to lynch Kiro seems more out of the fact it'd look bad than any sort of belief someone is worse or Kiro is better than PX- And the Kiro wagon -was- looking possible for a while. This kind of hesitation just doesn't seem townie to me.

Therefore, ##Vote: Conqueror.

Otherwise on the wagon, Zakeri's wish to lynch Kiro honestly seemed like a townie case to me, Shadoweh is...honestly a bit baffling with her random lynch insistence, but I don't think she's scum mostly because PX. She said she didn't want to see PX dead before, but now that she wanted Huhwhat alive, she had to kill him to keep HW alive unless she started a wagon on someone else- Cue Kiro wagon. Huhwhat is honestly the worst of the three starters if only because I have this desire to kill his case with a sledgehammer, but that may be because of all the scumpairing and 'his case on me' in it, but his motive of 'not me over me' seems undamning and while I still have reservations about completely clearing him, he looks townie. As for you, despite I don't get why you're acting like you were convinced of Scum Kiro after saying he looked townie and going all 'I hate all of you' before you voted him, but your hesitation seems like normal 'What the christ is going on' and dislike of the wagon.

Other than the Kiro wagoneers, Dormio yesterday didn't impress me much at all, and I'm...kind of wondering why the hell he stayed silent through -all- of the going ons at the end of yesterday except for incomprehensible babble, but he honestly does look better than he did when I initially made my case, and seeing as I think Kiro is town, I'm also going to consider his point about how fast the Dormio wagon dissolving. I honestly don't like him still for some reason, but I will admit he has improved and I don't think I'd want to lynch him at this moment.

I forgot Schezo existed in this game, but I seriously think it may be a bit absurd to consider scum with someone that has only 4 posts to his name. He seriously just feels...wrong! In all sense of the word, What the hell. He definitely doesn't look good but he just looks so bad for all the reasons that make my head hurt and what the hell. I don't particularly like him, but I really don't think he may be scum.

Hourai, for all he attacks me, honestly seems rather close to my posting methods and just based on that I want to clear him. On the other hand, I simply can't look at him and say that he looks extremely townie, his laser-focus on me and Schezo has literally assured he has missed -every bandwagon up until today-. That honestly just seems kind of wrong in a sense, but I like him more than the rest of my considerations.

Capt. H is about to be modkilled, but for what it's worth I don't think he's scum, and I've said it in red- I don't believe Uncertain Kitten is scum.

Therefore my ordering for scumminess would be Conqueror > Schezo >>> Hourai > Dormio > Huhwhat > Believe is Townies.

[Shadoweh]

Also Zak's theory makes a scary amount of sense considering Kiro's dying comment.

Wow, this sure is gonna be something. Assuming I'm still alive in Day 3, I will have comments on peoples.

..Because if it's true there'd be no way for Kiro to be alive. In fact there's no last minute reads or reactions considering he was two minutes away from being lynched. I.. Foobar.

I forgot Schezo existed in this game, but I seriously think it may be a bit absurd to consider scum with someone that has only 4 posts to his name. He seriously just feels...wrong! In all sense of the word, What the hell. He definitely doesn't look good but he just looks so bad for all the reasons that make my head hurt and what the hell. I don't particularly like him, but I really don't think he may be scum.

I don't think I can read this. What about Schezo do you find scummy? Do you find him scummy? You just said you're willing to lynch him but I don't feel like you've read his posts before saying this. He's your second choice, can you detail what about his posts don't look good to you? 

[capt. h]

Hey UK, any thoughts on any of this?

Since this is the first day with a new vampire, and near the end of my game, I'd like to hear more from you (and definitely Schezo) before I leave. You're usually more... involved in the game. The only player you've talked about today is Chaore, and your reads are backed by almost no substance - you say scum or town, but you don't say why, and your read on Chaore seems to be based on gut.

Frankly, you seem fairly demotivated, and your play looks different.  I'd like to see some cases from you before I die. Did you just become a vampire?

No, I really mean it, did you just become a vampire? I could completely understand losing your drive if that happened. I mean sure it's early in the day and maybe you'll get more in later, but I don't have much to work with.

Also, Schezo, please post something before I die. Silence is hard to read.

[UncertainJakutten]

To be honest I was busy today, and after two mislynches I heavily supported, I'm just a wee bit demoralized. Further, I've been reading...some theory . I think that my gut read on Chaore is one of the most pro town things I can do right now. I also gave my reads as promised, so it's actually a complete lie to say I've only mentioned Chaore. FURTHER, I asked a question about the case on Shadoweh earlier, one I still haven't seen answered. I was kind of hoping someone would enlighten me on that?

Not sure how I feel about Zak's theory. Honestly, it feels contrived. I honestly would find an ITP more likely than what Zak proposes. I think I've said that already too. Chaore's recent posting hasn't really given me any reason to doubt my gut.

So, capt. h., what's with the misreps? Run out of real things to accuse me of ?

[Chaore]

@Shadoweh: Okay, sure.

Even though it's an ED1 case, Schezo's first post has the huhwhat case has the big caveat that it simply never uses the word scummy. But more importantly it -never- actually explains 'why'. It's that annoying trait of saying 'this is what someone did' and treating it as a reason by itself. Town never abandons the most important aspect of explaining your cases. His Kiro stance is also hypocritical given he never follows up on that sentiment during the day- in fact, until late D2 he keeps entirely on this 4 stance off UK, Kiro, Huhwhat, and Dormio. His blurb on UK is a random clear he never explains, and he just gives the standard 'Dormio looks weird' without explaining why.

His second post kind of looks better, but I pretty much zoom straight in at the bottom response to Hourai's cut that basically reads to me as 'Fuck, look I just think Dormio looks bad, stop asking me to explain it'. In this regard it's kind of trying to keep it making sense if he doesn't get his Huhwhat lynch for him to switch to Dormio without making a case. Given the Huhwhat case didn't look like it would go somewhere, this kind of seems like a scummy thing to do. He continues his clearing on Kiro here as well.

His third post is a mix of continuing his huhwhat case and continuing to try and dissuade the Kiro case of UK's. So nothing new- Except for the bottom, which is all three of the things that you asked him to deliver, if I recall. He neglects to give any information about what he thinks of me and Capt. H and similarly neglects to say anything about the townie lynch that just occured. This entire post is essentially saying nothing, which is bad.

His fourth post is a full day later, and he says he doesn't like the LLD wagon in a few words after most of us have already made our stances. He brings up his HW case again, seeing that HW is still a viable lynch, and really doesn't add much more and says the infamous 'Needs a lynch' ender. It doesn't help his case is back to avoiding using scummy, he doesn't explain what he's finding bad, and it also seems to be an add-on more based on Huhwhat being defensive and trying to make that look bad. At this point Dormio's wagon dissolved, so he ends up calling Dormio derp town all of a sudden, using a response to Kiro as the excuse for his sudden dropped scum read. There's also the ending about continuing a read on a promised PX read that never came, which is bad (Though from my disappearance and failure to post that day as well I've no reason to shout from my glass house) but honestly leaves me the -worst- feeling. This is... Hardly even a PLAYER I'm reading here. It's like I'm reading a cliff notes of a few posts you'd get from clicking links on a case. It just makes me very uneasy.

[capt. h]

To be honest I was busy today, and after two mislynches I heavily supported, I'm just a wee bit demoralized. Further, I've been reading...some theory . I think that my gut read on Chaore is one of the most pro town things I can do right now. I also gave my reads as promised, so it's actually a complete lie to say I've only mentioned Chaore. FURTHER, I asked a question about the case on Shadoweh earlier, one I still haven't seen answered. I was kind of hoping someone would enlighten me on that?

Not sure how I feel about Zak's theory. Honestly, it feels contrived. I honestly would find an ITP more likely than what Zak proposes. I think I've said that already too. Chaore's recent posting hasn't really given me any reason to doubt my gut.

So, capt. h., what's with the misreps? Run out of real things to accuse me of ?

I don't know. I kind of lose it when I know I'm going to die.

Anyway, reads:

Bardiche: Suspicious. I'm not sure what his reasons for voting Kiro were. He seems to kind of break down.
Dormio: town
Schezo: scum. And I'm annoyed he isn't back here.
Shadoweh: suspicious. Her reads are all over the place, even if for decent reasons. Her case today is on Schezo; I would appreciate if she would give reads on other players.
Hanged Hourai:
Zak: town
Huh What: probably town
Conq:

Chaore: The more I think about it, he's probably town, if we believe his claim to have visited UK. Unless we really think that somehow Kiro is scum (I don't think I see it). He flipped the wagons hard and the risk of his own neck because he didn't want Kiro lynched. That only makes sense for scum Chaore if he was on a scum team with Kiro. I'm not confident enough in a non-flip to go that route.

[capt. h]

Oh, and UK: probably town.

(Note: all reads based largely on yesterday. Now that I've thought about it, there's no way I can have strong enough reads on any newly-converted scum.)

[Schezo]

Hush, I'm back and making that post you all want. >_>

[Schezo]

Alright, so let's talk about why huh what is still scum
Since the start of day 2, he was pushing Dormio like no tomorrow literally.  Look at how hard he's pushing for Dormio in his case.  After a while he makes the big PX case and drops Dormio for being Derpmio.  What happened between his Dormio and pX case was the Dormio not taking off like he was hoping towards mislynchdom and the PX wagon gaining steam and fast.  This isn't damning in un itself since his PX case is rather solid but later he pulls a fucking wagon on Kiro 5 hours to deadline!  In what looks to me to be bad self preservation to get Zakeri to back him on lynching someone else since there weren't many people at deadline since Zakeri wasn't buying a PX lynch.  Huh What's case on Kiro doesn't seem as strong as his PX one so this is screaming self preservation.  Though, here the only way I can see this redeemable for Huh What is if Kiro really is a Yakuza thing who kills himself with the convert.  I'm not entertaining the idea that scum team would kill themselves to just look better because that's just beyond stupid.  But I don't see the Yakuza thing unless someone can explain in more detail why there is one?  I'm personally more inclined to believe a limited Janitor Serial Killer about how Kiro died.  That's the most plausible thing I can think of since the mod did say that scum was doing a convert last night, not a night kill.  I also will confess that I believe Kiro was telling the truth about his role being watcher and being town since Chaore's and his reports match up, unless people are going to push a Chaore/Kiro scumteam.
Back to Huh what.  He had a chance to keep his PX wagon going if he left his vote there since his Kiro case doesn't strike me as him believing in it as much as he believed in his PX case so why was he voting Kiro again?  Oh yeah, as scum he wants a more difficult to obtain mislynch out of the way since objectively PX would be an easier target to go after later.

##Vote: Huh What

---

Now Shadoweh's Wall
First thing I want to comment on is your using me not commenting on LLD as a point against me.   I don't see it, there was almost nothing there I had to say  about before that post, not much had happened between UK/Bard/LLD yet.  The comment was just there for her benefit so she didn't think I was ignoring her since it was UK's question in the first place.

Your updated huh what case doesn't make sense to me. The point about UK's stange spat with huh what lacks you actually giving an opinion on it.

it's just how it reads.  HW was giving LLD hell for saying Hourai was town after UK did the same thing.  It's bad as it shows his scummy selective reading. 

Now for your questions.
-Where did I say 64 was backtracking?
-Stuff like this was making sense and to the point with active scumhunting. 
-wasn't here
-^

-No, somewhere along the line, I think it became less of a "let's lynch scum" and more " let's lynch this emotion provoking, antitownie"
-just did (see above)
- Kiro's wagon: Despite what people were thinking and think now, I believe Kiro to be town, don't find the case on him all that, so I wouldn't have supported it. 
PX's wagon: I found him to be scummy and for all intents and purposes I would have voted for him.  Take that as you will.
You can see what I think of HW up there.
-I wasn't here for day 2's deadline also, my schedule has been awkward this game.  I also resent this, since I was not here all night.  And are you mocking me about my huh what case?  I want the fucker to go through since he's scum!

"Who do you think is scum now and why?"
You.
Let's start.

I'll start with this what this fuck comment you just made about Kiro to try and further everyone's thoughts on a conspiracy floating around.
I want you to tell me.  How someone who just read they are the leading wagon and will die in two minutes, bar a last second change, is hinting at that they are really going to suicide when they use their night action and aren't talking about how they are about to be lynched?

Moving on to your three:
-Nope I have no opinions at this time.
-Still have no opinions with a vote to their name.
-"Hi I'm coasting! I also like to show indifference towards my supposed town partners by not trying my best to try and lynch scum.  Oh what else?  I feel entitled to this because I was vigged when the game started. ^_^"  AMIRITE?!
I'm not satisfied with your answer to be antitown

But now Shadoweh, what the fuck were you doing at the end of day 2?
-PX is bad, let's lynch
-"Huh what, my partner, I followed you to the PX wagon, how about I help you to get Kiro~  Sounds fucking super!"  No, what is the hell is this.  This is the second time you've used Huh What's reasoning as your own for a vote.  Why are you all buddy buddy with him when you can't make your own opinions?
-OH SHIT  This puts what you're doing in perfect perspective.  You and huh what can be that townie SCUM voting block that can change and sway the super close wagons to whatever you feel like.  You admit you like that 5 hour to deadline wagon HW started on Kiro and show support for it by voting.  No.  This is bad.  Scummy bad.
-More Kiro hate/ why he's scum >Ok look opinions, yeah I see you standing by your decision now.
-Wait a minute.  What the fuck?  You don't like his claim, yet you don't lynch him.  The fuck!?  You've commited to this wagon shittons more than you did to the PX, with your own original content yet you pop PX at the last second.  OK...

Since people think I don't have my priorities straight or something.  I want both Shadoweh and Huh what dead.  They are scum. 


Oh look a buncha stuff to address in the morning.  Well whatever this took 3 hours, you're waiting until then.

[Affinity]

Waning Gibbous

Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
Chaore (4) - Zakeri, UK, Hourai, Conqueror
Conqueror (1) - Chaore
huhwhat (1) - Schezo

Not voting: Bardiche, huh what

Chaore is at L-2

11 alive, 6 votes to lynch.

[Shadoweh]

=D oh hai Schezo

Now Shadoweh's Wall
First thing I want to comment on is your using me not commenting on LLD as a point against me.   I don't see it, there was almost nothing there I had to say about before that post, not much had happened between UK/Bard/LLD yet.  The comment was just there for her benefit so she didn't think I was ignoring her since it was UK's question in the first place.

Okay, no, I mean why didn't you comment on LLD say, when she was being wagoned and lynched as scum instead of your huh what or Dormio. You know, AFTER that post you made. I'm pretty sure if I look back at when that post happened the fight between the three of them will have already started so yeah.

Now for your questions.
-Where did I say 64 was backtracking?
-Stuff like this was making sense and to the point with active scumhunting. 

- Here you go buddy. Take a look at what you said and let's try my exact question again, "What about huh what's posts were backtracking on the point in post #64?"
- You can't point to an entire post of post analysis and just say 'I like this'. There's too much information in there. It's also the opposite of 'to the point'. What about it made sense? What parts did you agree with?

I don't believe you weren't here for the deadline. I definitely don't believe you weren't here the entire night. And no I'm not mocking you.

Oh goodie more defending myself.

Considering what I'd said just before that about switching my vote off of him, Kiro would be under the belief he might in fact not get lynched if I changed my vote. He'd actually be trying to do the opposite, trying to sound like he thought he would be here tomorrow.

On your uh, scum voting block theory. Keeping in mind huh what was in the lead because I was voting for him. Yes, you caught us. Huh what and I are the scum, and we pulled a guarenteed lynch off of PX, someone who was not our scum partner, and put it onto Kiro who was also not our scum partner because we felt we weren't being obvious enough and we hadn't attracted enough attention. Then when Kiro claimed a town power role I thought town deserved a chance and instead of lurking out the deadline I redirected the lynch onto claimed vanilla town because I am the worst scum player ever what is wrong with you?! I don't see how you can think I'm paired with huh what, considering I'd be so much better off right now having bussed him for cred instead of making a scene and waffling between what you think are town wagons.


You can't accuse me of jumping onto the Kiro wagon because of huh what with no original content of my own, then accuse me of jumping off to PX despite the original content I had on Kiro. Make up your damn mind. And your version of the events are in the wrong order all over the place. It wasn't originally huh what's thought that Kiro had voted based on interactions, it was mine. So was the wagon switch which was actually propelled by Zakeri before huh what made his vote post, not huh what asking Zak to back him up like you're saying. Speaking of which your reasoning for why huh what switched to Kiro doesn't match up with me. If Huh what x Shadoweh OTP wanted to get Kiro The Hard Lynch out of the way why did I switch Schezo?

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,

capt. h isn't gone yet. :/
Anyway.

As much as I'd like to yell at capt. h for posting town reads after the recruit went off, he's going to be modkilled later today apparently anyway, so whatever.
Moving on.
Regarding Shadoweh's #612/#613, so you're saying the reason you disliked PX's claim was because he only claimed his role.
Despite the fact that LLD's flip shows that there's more than just Human/Vampire, and that the rules state that Human/Vampire does not matter, and where the flavor and role seem un(or very loosely)connected.
Does that mean that, if I were to claim Vanilla Town, and only Vanilla Town, it would be bad to you too?
In other words, I think the reason for you not believing PX's claim is pretty bad.

And I'll do that Chaore reread tomorrow when I don't destroy my brain by getting through all of Portal 2 in one sitting.

Spoiler:

(So, how are you holding up? Because I'm a potato.)

[Shadoweh]

Oh I just realized Bard's rant at me in regards to lynching PX is him paraphrasing my rage at him for lynching LLD. Ahaha.. :fail: Why can I never see through Bard's sarcasm.. or fakeclaims.. or crumbs.. paruparuparu

Also Schezo I don't know if you noticed but Chaore said some stuff about you too you might want to address that.

Zakeri, when did you come to the conclusion Kiro was scum? More specifically, which parts of his posts convinced you he was scum, and what convinced you to vote him over huh what? Yes I know you explained a little of it when you voted, but before that I got the impression you didn't like huh what. Actually I get the impression you still want to lynch huh what, is this truth?

Why are we clearing Bardiche's blatant bandwagon hop for being flipping insane again? No seriously why is he clear for this? Why is he clear for voting with two people he thought were scum? Bard, screw your earlier case. Kiro is a janitored scum recruiter or whatever right? Why did I try to wagon him? Why did I, as scum, draw attention to the scum recruiter just to swing back to town? Why did I draw attention to -myself- like that? Don't call me thoughtless, I've explained my thoughts on my actions. You want to bring that vote back over here you better explain how my motives make sense as scum. Is huh what still looking scummy to you now?

Speaking of huh what, this is not a list of suspects. This isn't a vote either. Your only suspect is the person who was at L-2 already, without a reason why? I'd think you would know scum would benefit more from an extra nightkill and vig then vigging one of their own. You currently have less opinions then Schezo, FIX THIS.

This is where my Conqueror rant would go but he's already promised me cases and explanations later. I will wait faithfully to be amazed before destroying him for having Kitten gnawing on his ear JEALOUSY. Much of my displeasure would be alleviated if his explanations include why he thinks Kiro was scum-vigginated.

ShoeCat, your theories about gut voting should also tell you to go read my posts and make your own conclusions instead of following other people's cases and being a lazy Cage. Read me over. Am I scum?

Dormio, once you read my replies to you in my other post you can read this too. You're wrong. Get off my leg. Who ELSE do you think is scum right now? Oh you cut me. I don't think LLD's flip gave her race. Yes, I would dislike you if you claimed ordinary vanilla town without trying to share all the information you could from your role pm before dying. I think my reason for not believing his claim was pretty good since HE WAS LYING. He just happened to be lying town.

God, too much conspiracy theorying, not enough questioning for scum intent. In theory we might not have to worry about the question for long. I'm also of the opinion capt.h is about to flip town. Interested in seeing Chaore's follow ups on Conqueror and Schezo. Well I think that's ever-oh wait

Hourai: I get that you think Chaore is distancing, but who are his buddies that he's distancing from, especially now that he's put up his list of suspects?

@mod Will town be informed if it's in MYLO or LYLO? Also, how many hours until capt.h is modkilled?

[capt. h]

Alright, I've decided that your defense against Schezo isn't that hot Shadoweh. I don't agree that you started the Kiro wagon; and agree with Schezo that Huh What did. At most you just asked Kiro questions and placed pressure on him before placing your vote on PX while Huh What was the driving force behind the Kiro wagon. A lot of your original points only come after your vote, and on request. I also agree with Schezo that the Kiro conspiracy seems silly to me. And your vote hop back onto PX is bad because you didn't explain it at the time and you actually did commit more to the Kiro wagon than you ever committed to the PX wagon, although that could be attributed to time. But I can't know, because you didn't explain it when you made it.

Actually, the only reason I don't think the end of day shenanigans, from your end, were necessarily scummy is because I don't see any scum advantage to them. But they were extremely suspicious.

Schezo's newest post is not scummy. I find it neutral, which is a step up, but not town. I think I would have liked it more if it wasn't so hard to follow his case on Shadoweh due to how he formats it. I think his case on you is good Shadoweh, but it's hard to follow, and I'm not sure I agree with it only because your vote hopping at the end of the day is too non-advantageous for me to conclude it was scummy.

His most recent Huh What case though isn't hot either. It mostly boils down to Huh What voting Kiro over PX when Huh What had a better PX case, after he put a great deal of effort in to his Kiro case. Though I would like Huh What to explain why he thought Kiro was not just a good lynch, but a better lynch than PX.

[UncertainJakutten]

Why'd you drop me so fast, capt. h.? I mean, it's probably not very useful to press you right now, but this really bugs me.

@Shadoweh: Are you scum? I sure as hell don't see it. I'll give you a look over after DnD today, but I'm fairly sure I won't find anything. So, since my gut is failing to react to you, I'm at least trying to figure out why others feel you're scum. I'm not planning to make an argument on your behalf, just try to see what they see. And maybe see if it bugs me.

...huh what? I just reread the post you linked about HW. Why the fuck does he think Chaore is the best lynch? He talks about dead people and then softly supports the growing bandwagon? I DO NOT THINK THIS IS COOL!

Anyway, I think I'll actually do a full reread after DnD. I'm not going to do a big ~*~analysis~*~ post this time though, just read through, get things together, see how I feel about everyone. This would be in about 8 or 9 hours, so you all know.

[Conqueror]

So Chaore is gone for most of day 2, right? Let's look at his posts.

First post is pretty waffly in regards to almost everyone in that post. The LLD lynch is a null tell, apparently; not "terrible" but could have been "better thought through." Definitely a fence-sitting stance on Kiro, Dormio and PX. About the only opinion I can find in there is the stuff on UK.

Second post is here, and it looks like the Dormio vote is not because he doesn't like Dormio's new case, but because Dormio was late in posting it. Not a scumtell; I know I'm lazy as hell in posting cases too. I also see a lot of rage at PX, but he apparently acknowledges that PX has "logical reasoning" for his LLD wagonhop, even if he was late in posting the reasoning.

Last of all, he pops in almost 24 hours later, this time to vent at everyone for starting a lynch on Kiro. I actually consider the last minute wagon switch a null tell because I have no idea what is going on with that. But I definitely wouldn't just call it a town action without considering the implications, which is what Shadoweh seems to have done.

So what do I find wrong with Chaore's content? Oh, you mean the fact that he was missing for most of the day, parked a vote on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere, and then came back at deadline just to save Kiro? Yeah, I'm not sure what else I can really say about this.

As for why I find Kiro's claim fishy, in addition to the SO MANY INVESTIGATIVE ROLES issue, it is because he claimed to have watched UK on night 1, when if I remember, he didn't have a very strong town feeling about her. I'm also wondering about his thought process if he apparently saw Chaore visit UK, and then his only mention of Chaore throughout the day is to mention that Chaore has moved from an "ok read" to a "not-so-ok read," before Chaore is fine again at deadline.

So I'll requote myself here:

Kiro may have had other ways of receiving the info that he did, but I don't think he was being completely honest with his claim.

Or he could have just made the claim up to buy him time until Night 2.

It mostly comes for when he says he doesn't want a Kiro lynch- His posts don't read 'I'd prefer not to lynch Kiro because I like PX better', it reads as 'I don't want to lynch Kiro because I don't think it'd work out or because the rest of the game isn't here and would look poorly on it'.

What. You think I'm scum for not wanting to start a last minute bandwagon on someone? Yeah, I was pretty sure it wouldn't work out, and there was no way I was going to let a huh what lynch go through just because we botched both the Kiro and PX lynches.

This literally implies that PX looks worse to him, yet he waits a good long while after the wagon is made to switch.

PX was looking pretty scummy for a while. I only really started thinking about Kiro near the end of the day, after this post of his, and it only got worse. Also, your sentence answers itself.

His hesitation to lynch Kiro seems more out of the fact it'd look bad than any sort of belief someone is worse or Kiro is better than PX- And the Kiro wagon -was- looking possible for a while. This kind of hesitation just doesn't seem townie to me.

If I made the switch to Kiro and PX turned out to be scum, I'd look pretty fucking bad, wouldn't I?

So yeah, I find Chaore's "case" on me to be unimpressive. Anything else you want to say, or is that all?

if his explanations include why he thinks Kiro was scum-vigginated.

:? Can't explain something I never said or implied.

I thought it was highly likely Chaore was the targetter from his reaction to the claim.

What targetter?

I'll be back later with more, life calls.