Night of the Vampire Mafia: Happily Ever After

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

1. The people that didn't post in the confirmation phase at all.

2&3. Whatever.

4. I just think you are scum.

5. "Bardiche can go die" -> "I never thought Bardiche was scum"
Dunno if backtracking is the right word for it, or whatever, but I still don't think it's good.

7. In the post where you started voting LLD (#252) "you believe scum are more likely to use the "why me" tell. In this process, you have directly used it yourself."
Eh, whatever.

8. I still don't like how you just say something about an "unknown reason" that could link me or huh what to PX.

Okay, I get the thing about #75, I'll drop that. Why did you bring it up when responding to #401 though?

Anyway, tired of arguing about that, let's be friends?
I have a headache.

Opinions about you?
I think that you've been trying too hard to keep people from making cases on you.
Also, in your latest post, if you think that all the current wagons are town, then who do you think is scum?
I'm feeling kind of demotivated.
Bleh.


PESCO. I SANG THIS POST. WHERE IS MY LYNCH IMMUNITY.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p4rk3jbom620nd2 (Attempt to go with the "Still Alive" tune)

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

From a town perspective, there should be the assumption that you could die on any given night, especially among the more townie players. In this case, UK should as town work under the assumption that she could be selected by scum. She shouldn't assume there will be a day 3 in which she is working towards the town win condition.

The problem is that you said she was scummy, which means that you think she's scum for her actions. I think the word you're looking for is anti-town.

[capt. h]

Further, by putting my new reads off til tomorrow, I'm committing to a course of action that will assist you to discern my possible intent. It's actually a somewhat pro town move, even if it hurts my win chances should I be recruited.

Actually, I disagree. By posting your reads today, you commit to a course of action where regardless of what happens tomorrow we already have you accountable, making it difficult to backtrack should one of your reads actually be scum.

The problem is that you said she was scummy, which means that you think she's scum for her actions. I think the word you're looking for is anti-town.

I view anti-town behavior as null or mostly null behavior that goes against town's win condition. I view scummy behavior as non-null behavior that scum are more likely to partake in than town. I classify stalling reads until tomorrow as scummy behavior, rather than anti-town, because I think scum are more likely to put off their reads until tomorrow than town, who knows that there may not be a tomorrow.

At the very least it's suspicious behavior.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

That makes a little more sense, at least. The way you worded it made me think you thought she was town, which confused me.

[UncertainJakutten]

1. The difference being that they didn't post, meaning they were potentially not around, did not approve of posting in the confirmation phase, or any number of things. I can't accurately say anything about what they were doing during that phase. I can accurately say PX was around, did not disapprove of pre game posting, and chose to coast and not take things seriously, trying to bring things to RVS despite Bard giving us more than that. That said, that's the worst thing I can think of about him, the second worst possibly being his actions in the LLD situation.

4. Yes, and you've finally started providing reasons that, while to some degree wrong/misinformed, make some sort of sense, possibly even from a town perspective.

5. That's fine. I've explained my reasoning, there's not much else I can do.

7. Not sure how this becomes initially accusing her of "avoiding questions"

8. Unknown in that I don't know if it was to protect HW while avoiding a lead mislynch wagon, or to avoid swing voting onto town HW when Dormio scum was likely to be lynched at the time.

I brought it up responding to 401 because you accused me of hypocrisy regarding calling you out on conspiracy theories while having my own. I was both showing what was different, or trying to, as well as trying to get an answer for what I asked.

Anyway, it's not so much I think they are town so much as I'm getting a sinking feeling they are. Now that I'm not ragetunneling I can KIND of see where townies would use the arguments you two have. I'd say PX rates worse than you at this point, Dormio.

As for capt. h, I see no need to scare myself with the recruit/night kill. FURTHER, the fact it's a recruit means no matter WHAT, I will be around tomorrow to post my reads.

@Capt. h. cut: I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see the merit in your way, but I like mine better. Should one of my reads actually be scum, and I choose to shield them, that would be a thing that bites me in the ass fairly hard, ne?

The big problem with "there might not be a tomorrow" is that I'm still not DYING in any situation. It's *possible* I'll be recruited, but I also find that to be an unlikely outcome.

[Kiro]

Thoughts confused again. I think I'll just state that the way the Dormio wagon has dissolved is astounding. Unless we're all just wrong and Dormio is Scum all along, that just means that the real Scum felt they couldn't push that wagon anymore. That should make me more wary of the early Dormio pushers as well as the people who dropped off Dormio the latest.

As I can see it, HW fits that description very well. I do like his recent post as the case on PX is well said. But when most of the late people to drop Dormio moved to PX (HW, Conquerer to some extent, UK: did you vote Dormio at start of Day 2?, Shadoweh to HW, capt.h currently unvoted), that just seems to indicate the same mislynch wagon just under a different name. I do think the early roleclaim is in the end null, but still can't shake a bad feeling about it. If Scum wanted to early roleclaim, they'd claim Vanilla Townie to show earnestness. At deadline, they'd claim a power role to cause last minute chaos. Is that enough for me to consider dropping PX for HW?

Actually, I should consider capt.h more. Spending time responding about small things like whether UK should be putting her Town reads out or not is taking away time from you scumhunting and deciding who to vote today. Especially since you didn't like the Day 2 wagons in general. Who's it gonna be today?

[UncertainJakutten]

I voted Dormio at some point early on, IIRC. Mostly as a placeholder for those ISOs I never did since I ended up doing a mostly full reread.

After my reread I ended up voting PX.

[PX]

Funny thing Kiro, he did claim Vanilla Townie. Going to post more reads in the near future, definitely before I sleep.

[Conqueror]

Alright, stopped being lazy.

To Dormio, #402 basically clears up the issue I had with your previous post (unreadable, unclear, etc.). I'll say right now that I don't think the case holds much water (I believe UK does a good job of responding), but to me, the fact that you were willing and able to write out a case on UK that read in such a way that I could follow your thought process shows your intent pretty clearly. To be clear, I think that Dormio is more than likely town. K4U is still nibbling at my ear about Dormio and such (stop it!  :blush:) but I'm the one posting, but she doesn't get to say anything about that.

In response to Kiro, no, that one question did not invalidate my previous read; the question was actually one that I put forth after my discussion with K4U. I'm not going to bother restating what she said (I don't think it's relevant anymore in any case), so I'll just go ahead and say that we have conflicting opinions on Dormio, but since I'm the one in charge of the vote, I'm putting my foot down. As for Shadoweh, I initially voted her because she was my best read and I felt she wasn't receiving enough attention, especially as my predecessor went so far as to call her town (something I felt I should fix). Once she finally made a real post with real opinions (that I agreed with, no less), that basically invalidated my most important concern about her - that she wasn't actually engaging in the game. I actually still have a slight scum read on her, but I don't think it's enough to act on for today, and in any case I have a stronger read on PX.

Speaking of PX. I read PX's vote on capt. h. I'm not seeing it as all. Asking people for updated reads is not a scumtell, and I'm not seeing where these "waffly reads" or "generic reasons" are coming from. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. So yeah, PX looks to me like scum trying to BS a case and failing pretty badly. This, combined with the way he really liked the huh what case, only to completely drop it by his next post, makes me very comfortable with my vote. I'm also not seeing the town intent in his interactions with the LLD wagon, considering he's guilty of the very case borrowing he accuses capt. h of. Why are people clearing him again? Gut? Really guys?

...Which made me read capt. h again. Although I don't like the way he unvotes, makes a decent case on Shadoweh, and then DOESN'T VOTE ANYONE ARGH, it's not scummy so much as bad. Considering I agree with a lot of what capt. h says, I think he looks townish. The jump on LLD yesterday is strange but understandable if I actually read his post closely.

I don't like the huh what wagon. huh what's posts do give off a sort of very defensive feel, but other than that I can see almost nothing wrong with his posts. He lays out his cases clearly, he votes for the cases he likes, and his posts have generally given off pro-town intent. I don't see any reason why anyone should be voting huh what over someone like PX.

More to come, but I keep getting cut, so I'll Get This Post Out There.

[capt. h]

As for capt. h, I see no need to scare myself with the recruit/night kill. FURTHER, the fact it's a recruit means no matter WHAT, I will be around tomorrow to post my reads.

@Capt. h. cut: I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see the merit in your way, but I like mine better. Should one of my reads actually be scum, and I choose to shield them, that would be a thing that bites me in the ass fairly hard, ne?

The big problem with "there might not be a tomorrow" is that I'm still not DYING in any situation. It's *possible* I'll be recruited, but I also find that to be an unlikely outcome.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

By that I mean, I noticed that any player that actually gets selected wouldn't want to make good cases today because it would come back and bite them. I consider it extremely anti-town behavior, since the thing that benefits town is to make good cases now so that town has them, but as an individual player that may not be in your best interest. Thus, for each individual, the best thing to do is arguably put off your reads until day 3, when you know your alliance.

I don't agree with doing that and think it kind of goes against the spirit of the game, but that doesn't mean I haven't considered the possibility.

@Kiro - I don't know. I really don't know.

The fact that I don't have any stroing scum reads at this point tells me that I should probably either go after the most competent players when scum alligned like Shadoweh, Bardiche, and UK, or the lurkers like Schezo, Chaore, and Hourai. The only one of those 6 that I haven't already read in full and then mostly dismissed is Bardiche, so I'll read him before bed and see if anything sticks out.

[Conqueror]

Kiro, that's a pretty waffly post. Are you really pushing huh what on a conspiracy theory, or is there a case I should be looking at?

[UncertainJakutten]

I've actually provided pretty solid reads even now. I just haven't given you a full list and have been avoiding revising my center/mostly town reads until later. The only things I'm having obvious trouble with is my prior assessments of PX and Dormio. They just are the two wagons today. I don't see an 11th hour wagon switch working, honestly.

[Shadoweh]

WHAT IS THAT SOUND?! IS THAT ANOTHER VOTE ON ME?! >:(

I'm re-reading thread to go see if there's scum slipping through the seams by just being generally glib. Lurkers everywhere, everyone's scum. PX saw what happened to Lambda and spends a lot of time answering questions it's like we need to do that song and dance all over again but let's not words are hard Haha save me

Uhm Bard could you maybe tell us why you unvoted PX in english maybe?

Shadoweh what absolved Dormio of your attention for the day since you were tooting for his lynch PRETTY DURN HARD the other Day and then you suddenly went after me because RAEG and all these wrong things about it and then you hang around with no vote until page 13 where you bandwagon hop teh PX GUT VOTE TIME because wth.

I think I mentioned this before, but for SOME REASON I wasn't able to get into the game yesterday. I think it involved SOME JERKFACE pretending to shoot me. After actually rereading Dormio and comparing his play to what I was used to I came up with what I mentioned in post above. I wanted to see his next post to confirm it before going on way or the other. By the way, for having forced that whole death scare on me it's kind of awkward that you never mentioned a read on me either way until now. Did you not care how I reacted at all?

Uh, the gut thing was about UK, not PX. I said why I voted PX, he didn't have a case or a reasonable suspect. He immediately fixed that.

So you just didn't like my vote on you? Fair enough, it wasn't very well thought out. I always spend my time reactionary and prodding people with questions until the scum come out. And I'll vote whoever I think looks like scum regardless of how strong their wagon is. I'm still getting the same sense I was yesterday. The scum aren't where we're looking. I'm going to keep flailing in the dark until I find them.

Capt.h: I don't think it's false. I think the bad feelings I've been getting about UK are because of the hostility which throws off my radar for killer intent. I don't think Dormio is capable of ignoring when his teammates do scummy things, therefore this seems more like tunnelo who better not have a vig this game because I would seriously [redacted] him if he shot UK. You're watching my mind change, it's an amazing thing, and it's the same reason as you. PX is actually scumhunting. I see no reason to lynch him for putting effort into the game. For example here's something weird you just did:

And Schezo is still suspicious with the way he says in his last post that Huh What needs a lynch, but he hesitates to call Huh What scummy - I don't think he has a strong read on Huh What. Most the post was about how players made him uneasy/read town, and there wasn't much of a push behind it.

Oh, so you think Schezo is scum and want him lynched right?

Sorry, I'm having an off night. My current reads are that I'm somewhat opposed to a PX, Dormio, or a Huh What lynch after a great deal of thought. I'll make sure to pick a better scum pick before bed.
##Unvote

I'm not sure how these two points comply. You have a scum suspicion right there but you unvote and you'll be back at the lynch? Furthermore with your unvote there really is only one lynch target possible right now. I'd really like to see you come back and vote someone, like, now.

Kiro: oh god i can't reread everyone in one day there are too many. Okay, so just so I understand this, if I vote PX I'm scummy, and if I unvote PX I'm scummy? :/ He's still clearly in the lead. If we were scum together I would have had no reason to vote for huh what instead of Dormio, who's wagon has literally disappeared. Especially if it would make -me- an option. On Conqueror his last post seemed like a reasonable explanation of why he thought I was suspicious since conclusions are hard to make. Oh look at all those cuts. Gonna post now and address in the next one.

[Shadoweh]

Also, UK, RE: Voting PX. Not going to happen from me. I understand why you want a solid wagon but I want a solid SCUM wagon.

[UncertainJakutten]

As I said, I'm willing to switch to an HW wagon if it becomes viable. I don't want to risk oversleeping tomorrow and missing deadline, and having my vote NOT pushing a viable lynch.

[Conqueror]

Shadoweh, why do you feel that PX's recent posts give off the impression that he's earnestly scumhunting? I'm not seeing it.

[Conqueror]

EBWOP: The above question also applies to the other people to which it applies. Yeah, I'm lazy, sue me.

[UncertainJakutten]

It's less his recent posts are good, so much that when I keep rethinking his posting that I thought was bad, I find myself realizing I just found them BAD, not necessarily scummy. My two genuine points against PX would be his confirmation phase behavior and the weird thing about the LLD wagon. Granted, I didn't read his capt. h. case closely.

[capt. h]

Well, I finished my Bard reread. I've determined that he's probably the towniest player alive all things considered (unless my radar is really off). I understand his LLD case and agreed with it, he's extremely focused on scum hunting, he's been consistently bringing up good content. This is probably the best game I've ever seen him in.

I didn't say I'll be back at the lynch, I said I'll be back before bed Shadoweh. Frankly, I didn't think my Schezo case was strong enough at the time. The fact that the biggest two wagons started reading town to me forced me to reassess my reads. Regardless of what I think of it's strength, I'm not seeing th scum intent I'm looking for elsewhere. Schezo is the player I think is most likely to be scum at this time.

##Vote: Schezo

I've already stated that Schezo just isn't all that interested in seeing his lynches go through,  and how I don't think he's particular confident about his current vote judging by his 418. He's also been very lurk heavy, sticking mostly to town reads, and hasn't done much scum hunting. Frankly, he's the player I think is most likely to be scum, and he really has to start pushing his cases if he's town. Furthermore, I don't like it when a player says another player needs to die, or in Schezo's case "Needs a lynch". When that happens, it starts loking like the player is attacking over play style rather than alliance.

[Kiro]

Conquerer: Yes, I'm waffling a bit. I kinda wanted to see where capt.h would go, but he isn't going to deliver quite yet, but I take too long to post and he has decided on Schezo. So I'll get my updated vote in.

Being wary of the whole PX wagon being pushed by Conquerer, temporarily pushed by Shadoweh, pushed by HW, all after Dormio has dropped, I just see this as another standard mislynch wagon. I'm back to really wanting Conquerer dead for pushing only Dormio and PX as well as the Shadoweh thing early. HW is similar without the Shadoweh aspect. This is pretty much an abandoning the slam dunk easy to understand logic of how PX is scummy and going for the gut read that he's an easy mislynch for bad play rather than Scum play. I should have been more alarmed that after HW dropped his case on Dormio (took some time to actually do even if he was leaning towards it through the Day), how confidently he puts forth the PX case with all the good points. It just felt like something you could have done earlier so I'm getting on you primarily for how late the timing is on this. And the early roleclaim is another warning bell. I really don't know what your morning schedule is, but if you could spare 3 minutes when you woke up and you were in the vote lead, you could have done the roleclaim then. I'm not sure how fair that is to say, but you seem to be looking too far ahead into thinking you're going to be lynched as if we're just gonna get you anyways despite your best efforts. If I were Town in your shoes, I would have snuck a quick peek at the game before deadline and say your business then.

Shadoweh: It really doesn't have to do with your stance on PX, but more of your interactions with Conquerer. I think Conquerer is worse than HW, but I don't see his wagon getting any support today. Where you would fit into this is that my suspicion of you stems from possibly being a buddy of Conquerer. Individually, the case on you is harder to pin down and I'd hold your pushing Dormio for so long before dropping him as a point against you more than the PX thing. And Conquerer's thing with you is still weird since he acknowledged why you were suspicious, unvoted, and still has a slight Scum read on you. I'm holding that more against him than you though.

The fact that you and Conquerer have opposite opinions on HW is also something I'm struggling with. I do think Conquerer as Scum so I'm going to see his PX vote and not seeing the HW case as legit as trying to protect an HW Scumbuddy. To me, that is a more likely scenario than PX being Scum.

##Unvote PX
##Vote Huh What

[Kiro]

It is now Day Two.  Deadline is on 22nd June, 1400 hrs +0 GMT.

According to time conversion, that's 7 AM my time. Whee. I'll be around at 6:45 AM.

[Pesco]

VNJKESTJ COUNT

PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (3) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro
CaptH (1) - PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH

Not voting: None

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in just over 7 hours.

[Bardiche]

I'm awake! Let me get fewd and everything and then read through everything!

Capt H, short comment from skimming, are those the only three lurkers? I seem to recall one that lurked through all of D1.

[PX]

So much for posting before midnight. :\

Huh What read:

Starts off voting Dormio for a QUALITY ED1 post

Then more QUALITY ED1

Then this is where it gets odd. You're asking people to post opinions on things not involving Bard's vig. However, you yourself have only posted an opinion on Dormio, not even talking about anyone or anything else. In fact, other than you commenting on how bad my post was, you only gave opinions on Dormio throughout the entire pre-game phase. Perhaps YOU were the one coasting? I mean, if "There was already a fair amount of content to analyze outside of the vig shot", then why tunnel on an easy target?

Then your "obviously" post

so the accusations that I attacked people for coasting on the Bardiche case when "literally nothing else had happened yet" are incorrect.

Yet in the same post where you talk about people coasting,

Dormio seems to be the scummiest example so far, to the point where he's even keeping his vote down on Bard while attacking UK with a more valid case. I'm slowly finding myself more and more satisfied with my vote on him.

I also think people have already said how saying something was obvious AFTER it happened is utter bullcrap. Also, you never accepted the notion that Bard wasn't lying and actually shot Shadoweh? Because if it were "obvious he was gambitting", then why did people suddenly start talking about it?

Next Post
You never specified WHY UK looked the best, you just specified why the others look bad.

since I should not have needed to react to Bard myself to pass judgment on those who did.

Ugh, reading through is killing my brain, and Dormio on TS is not helping.

This post
I am stating that, Scum would have absolutely NO REASON AT ALL TO BE ON THE LLD WAGON, UNLESS ONE OF THE COUNTER WAGONS WAS A SCUM BUDDY., SINCE THERE WOULD BE A LYNCH NO MATTER WHAT. They do not need to push a townie wagon for a hard lynch, so they have little motivation to actively push a wagon they know for certain will flip town.

Addition, his defense doesn't really show how people are wrong, he just says it and never explains it. Also, your change to vote for me is very opportunistic, pushing me to the definite wagon while giving up on the Dormio wagon when it's dying down.

##Unvote
##Vote: Huh What

WRYYYYYYYY - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

[PX]

Also, this time I will try to wake up before the deadline. Waking up at 0700 is just ugh in the morning.

[Shadoweh]

Conqueror: I'm not sure how to explain that to be honest. I haven't seen anything wrong with his posts in general, posts like this make me feel like he's actually looking at the game and at people to see what his opinion of them is. I do want to hear what he thinks of huh what now and my view on him since he insisted on it.

Looking at the votecount I'm not the only one having doubts as everyone is everywhere. I can already hear the sound of UK raging when she wakes up to this. Bard just cut me with something I was going to mention about capt.h and I hate him, but yes capt.h has neglected to reread Zakeri. Again, Zak, Dormio, we are not lynching UK today, pick someone else. Hourai, although I'd support one (and Chaore has vanished and never answered my point about the misrep on Dormio) I don't think Chaore is getting lynched, pick someone else. I would -like- to think Bard should change his vote too since I know he's on a bad wagon. :p I don't think there's support for Schezo unless I missed something..

[PX]

Capt. H: *facepalm* That vote. Orz

WRYYYYYYYYYY Shadoweh cut!

I don't really like how spread out the votes are either.....

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Again, Zak, Dormio, we are not lynching UK today, pick someone else.

Firstly, I should be around until the deadline or an hour before it and am willing to switch to PX at that time.

[Pesco]

I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST VOTE COUNT

PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (4) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro, PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH

Not voting: None

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in just over 6 hours.

[Bardiche]

The above is the most brilliant post I've ever read from PX. It's frightful, is scum writing your posts for you? :toot:

Jokes aside, I don't support a PX lynch and I'd appreciate UK put in ALL effort to abandon a wagon she doesn't support because townie power etc. PX finally moving to a Not-Me-Over-Me wagon is like, ABOUT TIME LOL.

THAT SAID, GODDAMNIT HAHA STOP DISTRACTING ME ON TS.

Shadoweh are you honestly saying that you spent all of D1 doing little because of a FAKE VIG SHOT THAT DIDN'T EVEN KILL YOU WHAT. And then you spent the early part of D2 STILL DOING NOTHING because I SO RAEG OVER COP DEATH even though you YOURSELF were pressing Lambda to answer what.

No I didn't care about your reactions AT ALL because I didn't expect there to be anything ~useful~ in that, but if your reaction now is CANNOT POST, MUST LOSE MOTIVATION BECAUSE FAKE VIG SHOT then I am confus given it didn't even last that long for the game proper.

So you just didn't like my vote on you? Fair enough, it wasn't very well thought out. I always spend my time reactionary and prodding people with questions until the scum come out. And I'll vote whoever I think looks like scum regardless of how strong their wagon is. I'm still getting the same sense I was yesterday. The scum aren't where we're looking. I'm going to keep flailing in the dark until I find them.

I dislike more than the vote on me because you're just bandwagon hoopppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggg~ magical stars sugoi ^_^~♥ I thought sleeping would make me feel better but I still feel silly as all get-out.

Doesn't invalidate my own case.

Still re-reading thread but godwhat.