Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F (Read 475698 times)

Ryin · « **Reply #120 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:08:29 PM »

Quote from: CF7 on December 04, 2015, 01:54:16 PM

Hm... Interesting. And kind of funny. During my first playthrough i built my Cirno as an ATK based sweeper and she held that spot all the way to 20F. What she didn't hurt significantly with Diamond Blizzard, was very often left paralyzed, so other members of my sweeper team could finish off quite easily. Considering her really good speed growth, she usually went first in battles and cryofreezed everything.

I took her all the way to the post game and I still think she's decent. Her damage is in the pretty low side of usable. But it's still usable and carries interesting properties.

Quote from: CF7 on December 04, 2015, 01:54:16 PM

So i can use Reimu, Rinnosuke, Momiji, Youmu, Kogasa, Minoriko, Komachi, Nitori, Parsee, Aya, Kasen, Hina, Suika, Yuyuko, Yuuka, ~~Byakuren (it's weird that Nazrin has Myouren Temple passive, but Byakuren does not. Anyway, not including her)~~ and Eiki.
Hm... Looks somewhat playable and looks like i'll have to get really crafty with subclasses. Should be fun.

Somewhat playable? You have Hina, Kogasa, Parsee and Nitori. And healers. And Aya. And damage variety. The only thing you don't have is an offensive buffer. You pretty much don't even need subclasses and the game will still be pretty regular with this team.
Seems like a fun team, though.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #121 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:15:32 PM »

Quote from: Kageshirou on December 04, 2015, 01:44:38 PM

Just telling, if there is an empty space left, I'm down for the banning too.

I'm totally fine with that and I haven't really found a third person, so sure, I'm game.

Quote from: Ryin on December 04, 2015, 01:45:08 PM

It seems like terrible game design to me (^:
No matter how strong a character is, they shouldn't be able to trivialize fights with damage alone. Well, maybe one or two battles. But taking out more than a quarter of the boss' health in one hit is kind of the norm in LoT2. (still, LoT2 is a good game and a lot better than pretty much 90% of the RPGs out there...)

No, I do agree that it's not really that great from a design standpoint. I was only saying that it makes sense to me why that damage is so high.

Ryin · « **Reply #122 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:33:19 PM »

You know what could be cool? Imperishable Night run.
Team is Reimu, Yukari, Marisa, Alice, Sakuya, Remilia, Youmu and Yuyuko.
You can only swap between partners (for example you have Remilia, Yukari, Youmu and Alice on the field. you can swap Alice for Marisa, but not for Yuyuko).
The only problem with this would be tanking, I guess. Because you'll probably have to deal with either Reimu or Sakuya in the first slot when you swap Remilia/Yukari.
The cool thing is that MAlice get to use their synergy skill lol.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #123 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:41:42 PM »

Quote from: Ryin on December 04, 2015, 02:33:19 PM

You know what could be cool? Imperishable Night run.
Team is Reimu, Yukari, Marisa, Alice, Sakuya, Remilia, Youmu and Yuyuko.
You can only swap between partners (for example you have Remilia, Yukari, Youmu and Alice on the field. you can swap Alice for Marisa, but not for Yuyuko).
The only problem with this would be tanking, I guess. Because you'll probably have to deal with either Reimu or Sakuya in the first slot when you swap Remilia/Yukari.
The cool thing is that MAlice get to use their synergy skill lol.

I did actually get an idea for that, especially with the whole partner thing, but with 12 characters and not just 8, and the fact that they all have synergy skills.

So basically, Marisa/Alice, Renko/Maribel, Iku/Tenshi, Nazrin/Byakuren (don't really know about this one because Byakuren doesn't have the skill, but there's no replacement for it), Keine/Mokou, Chen/Ran.

Shadowlupus · « **Reply #124 on:** December 04, 2015, 02:53:54 PM »

Speaking of Iku/Tenshi synergy, I have tried using Tenshi's ATK buff skill and the result is very impressive. If she is raised for ATK and is with Iku, she can hit as hard as your dedicated DPSer or even nuke-tier while being tanky at the same time. She can also one-shot most enemies with high Defense/HP (like those on Desert Stratum and something like...Gelatine Cube) even without any buffs. Considering that she was a low-tier in attacking department in the previous game, this skill is definitely worth a try.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #125 on:** December 04, 2015, 03:34:01 PM »

Quote from: Monothemeerp on December 04, 2015, 02:41:42 PM

I did actually get an idea for that, especially with the whole partner thing, but with 12 characters and not just 8, and the fact that they all have synergy skills.

So basically, Marisa/Alice, Renko/Maribel, Iku/Tenshi, Nazrin/Byakuren (don't really know about this one because Byakuren doesn't have the skill, but there's no replacement for it), Keine/Mokou, Chen/Ran.

What would the rule be for swapping out the 5th / 6th pair of characters? The 4 in front and 4 in back idea was straight forward.

And when you said 12 characters, I was imagining just the 4 groups of 3 person synergy teams. (Eientei Trio, Subterannean Trio, Moriya Trio, Yukari and her Shikigami)

It would certainly be an interesting way to play, since if I wanted to get squishy Kaguya / Reisen out in the safest way, I'd have to move Eirin from her tanking slot to the far right first.

Also, it seems we have 3 people for character draft. There's probably a bunch of things that are better handled in a chat rather than on a forum, so how does a Discord server sound?

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #126 on:** December 04, 2015, 03:51:48 PM »

Ooh, that'd be interesting. And sure, I'm cool with a Discord server, even though I haven't used it before.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #127 on:** December 04, 2015, 04:32:29 PM »

Quote from: Monothemeerp on December 04, 2015, 03:51:48 PM

Ooh, that'd be interesting. And sure, I'm cool with a Discord server, even though I haven't used it before.

I sent a PM with the discord link. Kageshirou is already on.

Edit: And here was the draft, pick and ban order was Kage > Mono > Jax. Characters are listed in the order they were picked by the player.

Universal Bans: Flandre, Aya, Parsee
Kageshirou Bans: Suika, Eirin, Iku
Monorion Bans: Yukari, Rumia, Sanae
Jaxter Bans: Reimu, Komachi, Kaguya

Kageshirou Picks: Suwako, Byakuren, Yuugi, Patchouli, Ran, Marisa, Maribel, Satori, Utsuho, Mystia, Mokou, Tenshi

Monorin Picks: Yuuka, Hina, Nitori, Kasen, Renko, Rinnosuke, Yuyuko, Nazrin, Cirno, Chen, Remilia, Rin

Jaxter Picks: Sakuya, Reisen, Alice, Meiling, Minoriko, Eiki, Wriggle, Keine, Kanako, Momiji, Kogasa, Youmu

Only playing the main game and at challenge level.

Ryin · « **Reply #128 on:** December 04, 2015, 06:05:30 PM »

Quote from: jaxter0987 on December 04, 2015, 03:34:01 PM

And when you said 12 characters, I was imagining just the 4 groups of 3 person synergy teams. (Eientei Trio, Subterannean Trio, Moriya Trio, Yukari and her Shikigami)

It would certainly be an interesting way to play, since if I wanted to get squishy Kaguya / Reisen out in the safest way, I'd have to move Eirin from her tanking slot to the far right first.

Sounds like fun. I guess the best team composition for this one would be something like Yakumo Eientei Chireiden Moriya.
Yukari and Ran can take the first slot and Chen is good at running away.
Eirin can stay out and Reisen is kinda ok in the second slot with her buffs. Kaguya can be switched in and out.
And then the other two are pretty much interchangeable, except Kanako has an ability that makes Moriya take the 4th slot for efficiency.
Interesting side effect: Moriya goddesses can't get Miracle Fruits or Divine Winds in this composition.

Edit: those are some interesting teams you guys got.

Pesco · « **Reply #129 on:** December 04, 2015, 08:01:03 PM »

I forgot to mention you guys could also draft the subclasses too for extra spice. Diva probably gets universal ban :V

Ghaleon · « **Reply #130 on:** December 04, 2015, 08:07:23 PM »

I'm up for a lot1 draft thing again if other people are. I'd do 2 but one at a time for me and currently I'm in the mood for 1 =P

Ryin · « **Reply #131 on:** December 04, 2015, 08:36:19 PM »

I'm currently grinding to beat ***WINNER*** in my current playthrough and I didn't wanna join the LoT2 draft run because I'm already gonna start playing LoT2 and I already have something in mind for that game.
But summer vacations are coming for me and I'll definitely have time to play both. Sign me up for that!
Will it be until the final boss or the whole thing?

And talking about my playtrhough, yesterday I put Great Stamp up. I had forgotten how intense this battle was. He just decided to use Rasetsu Fist for pretty much every action he had and I still won, somehow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o72zoQMNds0

RegalStar · « **Reply #132 on:** December 04, 2015, 09:35:46 PM »

It's been a very long time since I touched LoT1 so I can be up for one too.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #133 on:** December 04, 2015, 11:34:17 PM »

Personally I think SoC is a good stopping point cuz the grind after is wayyy too long to justify so little content (though unlike how many think, I think winner is an entertaining boss when you are finally able to not drop dead instantly to his stupid high #s).

Ryin · « **Reply #134 on:** December 04, 2015, 11:40:59 PM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 04, 2015, 11:34:17 PM

Personally I think SoC is a good stopping point cuz the grind after is wayyy too long to justify so little content (though unlike how many think, I think winner is an entertaining boss when you are finally able to not drop dead instantly to his stupid high #s).

Sounds good to me. I totally agree that the game is not terribly grindy until ***WINNER*** preparations and that ***WINNER*** is a blast to fight against.
So draft run until Serpent of Chaos? And we have three people, so... when do we start the draft?

RegalStar · « **Reply #135 on:** December 05, 2015, 12:20:31 AM »

I'm OK pretty much whenever. Where is the draft taking place? Also we need rules and banlists.

And also I'm pretty sure the draft for LoT1 is pretty much stopping at end of main game too. You could try to go beyond but Eiki is not going to be fun without Komachi.

Ryin · « **Reply #136 on:** December 05, 2015, 12:45:53 AM »

Quote from: RegalStar on December 05, 2015, 12:20:31 AM

And also I'm pretty sure the draft for LoT1 is pretty much stopping at end of main game too. You could try to go beyond but Eiki is not going to be fun without Komachi.

You should try that sometime. Eiki is actually a lot easier if you don't spend half of your turns trying to keep Komachi alive. Just accept you're losing one character every 5 turns and make sure that you're losing the right characters. She doesn't have nearly enough HP for Last Judgement to be an issue.
Unless you're talking about a Komachi with enough HP to survive Bar of the Ten Kings. Which is kind of a lot.

I'm fine with any stopping point, really. And I guess we could set up a Discord server, too? I've never used that, though.

Edit: made the thing and sent PMs with the link for both of you.

jaxter0987 · « **Reply #137 on:** December 05, 2015, 02:21:41 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on December 04, 2015, 08:01:03 PM

I forgot to mention you guys could also draft the subclasses too for extra spice. Diva probably gets universal ban :V

I mean, Diva is only really OP if Aya is still up on the board but since she's not, no subclasses really needed to be banned. Hexer would have if they hadn't nerfed how Hexer Hina worked.
Also, unless there was a way to get access to all the subclasses from the very beginning, drafting subclasses would basically be a toss up between drafting the subclasses you get early so you get early access to them in your run, or drafting the good ones and being screwed out of the early game.

RegalStar · « **Reply #138 on:** December 05, 2015, 03:42:14 AM »

Draft done.

Bans - Iku (Universal), Renko (RegalStar), Rinnosuke (Ghaleon), Okuu (ryin)

RegalStar: Meiling, Minoriko, Yukari, Keine, Cirno, Kanako, Komachi, Suwako, Orin, Youmu, Maribel, Yuuka
ryin: Remilia, Rumia, Sanae, Tenshi, Yuugi, Alice, Eirin, Chen, Suika, Aya, Flandre, Mokou
Ghaleon: Ran, Reimu, Mystia, Patchy, Reisen, Wriggle, Kaguya, Eiki, Nitori, Marisa, Yuyuko, Sakuya

The full BP save that Pesco posted: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11564.0;attach=26887

Ghaleon · « **Reply #139 on:** December 05, 2015, 05:41:41 AM »

fun fact: Nitori was one of the later picks, lawl.

RegalStar · « **Reply #140 on:** December 05, 2015, 06:04:40 AM »

Quote from: Ghaleon on December 05, 2015, 05:41:41 AM

fun fact: Nitori was one of the later picks, lawl.

I would've picked her earlier if not for the fact that I totally forgot that she actually wasn't banned. :V

Ghaleon · « **Reply #141 on:** December 05, 2015, 06:26:18 AM »

I actually picked her pretty naturally when I would have anyway just cuz I was so panicked about survival without china/remi =P

jester147 · « **Reply #142 on:** December 05, 2015, 08:42:25 AM »

I'm kinda lost. So do you guys do a character draft and race, or is it something else?

This thing seems kinda fun.

Pesco · « **Reply #143 on:** December 05, 2015, 09:07:33 AM »

Just draft the characters and go do a playthrough with them. No race. Nobody minds if you don't finish since the fun part is the draft and figuring out how to make your party work thereafter.

Ghaleon · « **Reply #144 on:** December 05, 2015, 09:08:06 AM »

no race, we just decide to do it together but we take turns picking characters... so for me it was something like:
player1: china
me: (shit)
player 2: remi
me: SHIT! I mean (shit!)
player #? Ghaleon you get to pick 2 now
Me: (can I pick those 2?..*mumbles*), uhh..reimu and ran (I think those were my first 2)
note each player cannot pick ones others already have, which is partially the point. We also took turns banning each character beforehand. 2 of us banned renko and rinnosuke because we don't like how they kinda change how the game is played alone under certain conditions, and one banned okuu cuz she sucks and didn't want anyone to suffer having her.

Interestingly enough this made me pick characters I otehrwise hate like reisen and sakuya...the whole thing feels like every character I feel is good or op or whatever... it makes me feel like I 'earned' them by sacrificing others I like. I dunno. it's neat.

jester147 · « **Reply #145 on:** December 05, 2015, 09:32:42 AM »

Seems fun, would like to try one someday.

Then again I still have my "my favorites" team run, that is still stuck in 8F/9F.
Speaking of 9F... I never encountered Nitori. It's a New Game+, but I think she would still appear somehow, or it's just me being totally unlucky.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #146 on:** December 05, 2015, 10:01:02 AM »

Just had the most hilarious finish against 3F Komachi. Everyone died except Rin, Cirno and Nitori, so I just spammed Cat's Walk, Icicle Fall and Extending Arm and still managed to get her after a speed debuff and a few lucky SHKs. Amazing.

Ryin · « **Reply #147 on:** December 05, 2015, 02:21:07 PM »

Just to clarify, Okuu doesn't really suck. But her niche is too specific for draft runs and we already have three more popular mages with fire spells.
I'm already using Okuu for the playthrough I'm finishing and I know I'd be he only one who would choose her in the drafting, so I banned her because I wanted Mokou this time around (and I knew no one would choose her, too. so I didn't bother choosing her until the end).
Okuu's niche is being a bulky fire mage capable of playing stay in and dealing ok damage or runaway with her self buff in case you can't properly buff her for some reason. She's also almost as fast as Orin to make up for the lower burst. Giga Flare is also one of her important spells. It might not be as strong as Kaguya's or Eiki's but it's still very sufficient for when you specifically need defense piercing.
So yeah, too specific.

Monothemeerp · « **Reply #148 on:** December 05, 2015, 03:25:03 PM »

Already up to 7F! So far I'm pleasantly surprised by Nazrin and Rin.
Also, I wish I could've gotten Sakuya. I'd have all the Extra Attack users and it would be hilarious.

RegalStar · « **Reply #149 on:** December 05, 2015, 06:08:22 PM »

Up to 3F now. I mostly DTH'd the bosses I encountered but Youmu I decided to actually fight. I thought that having a team with many late-game characters would actually make it more difficult than normal (it certainly made floor clearing a lot more annoying), but it turns out that not being stuck with as many squishy characters that need help to even survive a Flashing Cherry Blossom is more helpful than I thought, since I could help the backline recover SP by just having four sturdy character in the front and play stall for a bit.