Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 15F

[jester147]

I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.

Aside from that... I'm stuck.

Spoiler:

I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle

I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels...
How do you farm money anyway? Grinding doesn't give me much. Also if you keep investing, how do you even achieve that 1 million money achievement then?

[CelestialFire]

I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.

Aside from that... I'm stuck.

Spoiler:

I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle

I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels...
How do you farm money anyway? Grinding doesn't give me much. Also if you keep investing, how do you even achieve that 1 million money achievement then?

20F Depths is the best place for money and exp. Just keep grinding there, you'll get 1 million soon enough.

[Serela]

I've finally got the drive to play LoT2 again, although I do most of the exploring not doing random encounters lol. ChenAya best team.

Aside from that... I'm stuck.

Spoiler:

I'm on The Great "C", but the MND ignoring attack is too much to handle

I'm checking gameplay video and then I saw their sky-high HP, this means I'm not that invested in library levels..

There's one thing that really trivilizes these guys;

Spoiler:

Bring out Hina. They're very weak to debuffs. Two or three casts and all five cookies will be -40~50% on every stat; likely even on just the second one, max Biorhythm only has like a 30% chance to miss on their atk and magic stat and like 15% on their speed.

[Lollipop]

I derped and walked into the FOE on Floor 2 with a level 6 team. And I won  :V So much for 'far too strong'

[Nyxnyx]

How many stone of awakening are there to find? Also what's this Jewel of greater awakening? Where can I find it and does it give a better subclass power?

[unknown_person]

How many stone of awakening are there to find? Also what's this Jewel of greater awakening? Where can I find it and does it give a better subclass power?

I believe that there are 12 of them, and getting all gives you the Jewel of Greater Awakening (through an achievement), which makes it so that you don't need Stones of Awakening to add subclasses.

One thing to note about Youmu: she does have low base MP, but is tied with Minoriko for the highest MP growth. This means post-game, she has pretty decent MP (and depending on the level cap, she can theoretically have a very large MP pool). Still doesn't make her that good, but interesting to consider.

[Nyxnyx]

Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.

[Kirin no Sora]

Quite honestly I'd rate Youmu as one of the worst characters. The fact that she's still pretty usable is a good show of how there's not any -awful- characters in LoT2, but yeah. Her attack stat isn't that high and she doesn't have any particularly useful passives or particularly good moves... and for some reason most of them cost at least twice as much mp as an equivalent move would cost on others. Slash of Eternity is only as good as standard good-damage single target moves, -Kogasa- should easily meet or exceed it's damage. You can sorta deal with that and use Meikyo Shisui if you sub Guardian for Efficient Concentration, but... her moves aren't really good enough to warrant it, her atk/passives aren't good enough to make subs that exciting either, and with her low MND she's not a particularly bulky attacker either as looots of them surpass her durability easily.

Maybe Youmu is someone who needs the Maintenance skill to help her. Either that, or some alterations to her spell formulas(like reducing the defense influence on all of her spellcards, both in general and with each Skill Level)...

[Validon98]

Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.

I don't remember where they all are myself, but two are only found in the postgame areas.

[Otaku]

May I ask what achievement it is, that unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening ?

[Kirin no Sora]

Hmm I only have 9 of them. Anywhere I can find their locations, at least the floors? The wikia seems to be missing 1 or 2 of them.

'Wikia', you say? Do you mean the Touhou Wikia?

[Nyxnyx]

I don't remember where they all are myself, but two are only found in the postgame areas.

Hmm I see, thanks for the info/

'Wikia', you say? Do you mean the Touhou Wikia?

Yup. But now that I know that the other 2 are in the postgame area, that makes it clear that the wikia is more or less complete.

[jaxter0987]

The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.

Also, I thought we were all in the know about how the Touhou Wikia < Touhou Wiki.

[Nyxnyx]

The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.

Also, I thought we were all in the know about how the Touhou Wikia < Touhou Wiki.

Well It's just my habit lol.

[Otaku]

The achievement of finding all 12 Jewels of Awakening unlocks the Jewel of Greater Awakening.

I see, thank you 

[Starxsword]

Maybe Youmu is someone who needs the Maintenance skill to help her. Either that, or some alterations to her spell formulas(like reducing the defense influence on all of her spellcards, both in general and with each Skill Level)...

Youmu doesn't need something as powerful as Maintenance, that skill is just ridiculous and brings anyone to god tier.

She would be fairly good if she can just get a buff on her Mental Concentration. Right now, it is about equal to the other concentrate skills, even though that is her specialty in Labyrinth of Touhou 1.
If the value of Mental Concentrate triples (12 MP gain at level 4) or allows passive MP regeneration (4 MP gain at level 4) upon taking a turn, she will be good.

[jaxter0987]

I honestly think Youmu's problem is that she relies too much on stay in fighting power without having the defensive stats to actually stay out in the frontlines. Practically all her skills promote nuking with her high cost spells on one turn, concentrating the next turn, and then nuking again. Desperation and Regeneration work together, and Mental Concentration and Meikyo Shisui work together, keeping her MP, HP, and buffs at a good level to maxmize her damage.

Even if she has the balanced defensive stats to be a bulky attacker like Kanako, Youmu just requires too much effort.

[Serela]

The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.

Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.

But regardless, in postgame with endless corridor skills and triple stat boost scalings, she should be nice enough. Maybe?

[Kirin no Sora]

The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.

Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.

But regardless, in postgame with endless corridor skills and triple stat boost scalings, she should be nice enough. Maybe?

...and that's why I actually suggested the Maintenance skill before. Her spell formulas and MND stat are bad enough that Maintenance becomes needed for Youmu to actually pull off a bulky attacker build without altering her attack formulas or stats. I do recall that that was the reason that Nitori has the skill, since it was stated that she wouldn't be able to keep up otherwise.

Still, that's a lazy man's way of solving it, and I would rather not be lazy on this sort of thing.

First off, I had stated before that her spellcards should ignore some of the enemy's DEF. To expand on that, how about each of her spellcards ignoring half the enemy's DEF at Lv 1 and 10% more DEF for each level above that? Would that work attackwise, seeing as DEF piercing attacks are a valuable thing in this game?

Defensively, it's hard to think of something that can help her outside of Maintenance or buffing her defensive stats(You know it's bad when Youmu's MND is at the same base number and growth rate per level as Chen's DEF). Maybe Guts could be a good skill for her to have so she would have a chance at not being one shotted?

[Starxsword]

The issue with Youmu is her attacks are high-cost except they -aren't even good- compared to the moves of almost all the other attackers, and she's a bulky attacker with passives for that kind of build except her mnd is awful so she's not really a bulky attacker compared to the others either. Even if she had better mp regeneration, she's weak.

Her MP gimmick would be neat if her attacks actually warranted it, but her skills are just bad (Slash of Eternity has massive delay but isn't stronger than standard good single targets, and her multitargets have high DEF influence which becomes increasingly bad as time goes on) and her attack stat isn't particularly high.

You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.

If her MP gimmick is buffed to say either 12 extra MP regen or 4 MP regen when she takes a turn works, then, she can actually use the high MP attacks regularly. Even if the formula so so, at least she'll be able to use those attacks and gain buffs from her Meikyo Shisui.
With this, she will be a decent character, especially with her new skill set. But without any changes, I'm not sure if even her new skill set will save her from being mediocre.

My build for Youmu is pretty much either Monk, Strategist, or Healer and go Meikyo Shisui, never using any special attacks. As Monk Subclass she will gain +16% buff, along with 14% HP recovery per turn which is pretty decent.

[jaxter0987]

You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.

What are you talking about.... She recovers 10 MP per Concentrate at max level Mental Concentration with base MP recovery. The only spell that forces her to Concentrate twice after using it is God's Slash of Karmic Wind and that's easily fixed by +1 MP recovery equip.

[Starxsword]

Yeah, it is easily fixed by a +1 MP recovery, but that means you need to use it instead of another equipment. There aren't any equipment with MP recovery that I would use with Youmu.
Unfortunately her best skill, with damage to delay ratio is God Slash of Karma Wind. Her other skill, Slash of Eternity's delay is just insane for not that much better damage.

[jaxter0987]

Yeah, it is easily fixed by a +1 MP recovery, but that means you need to use it instead of another equipment. There aren't any equipment with MP recovery that I would use with Youmu.
Unfortunately her best skill, with damage to delay ratio is God Slash of Karma Wind. Her other skill, Slash of Eternity's delay is just insane for not that much better damage.

What are you using for her Main Equip instead? Orb of Eartihin and Jogurt Doll are pretty easy MP recovery equips...

[Nyxnyx]

What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.

I'm on floor 19-20 btw.

[shadyangel]

What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.

IIRC i was using Kasen and the Udonge+Yuyuko combo with Aya. I only used Alice pretty much once, against the final boss to stack HVY, but I'm really interested to see her capabilites in the expansion.
Im also interested in  Remilia, because as of right now, she feels like someone I don't want in my party.

[Serela]

You can build Youmu tanky (HP Youmu) enough to be in the first slot. You pretty need to just use regular attacks, since not doing so will bring her MP down to below max breaking her ability to gain stats.
It also means any time you use a skill, it takes 2 turns of concentration to get back all your MP assuming you maxed that concentration skill, which is a no go for me.

If her MP gimmick is buffed to say either 12 extra MP regen or 4 MP regen when she takes a turn works, then, she can actually use the high MP attacks regularly. Even if the formula so so, at least she'll be able to use those attacks and gain buffs from her Meikyo Shisui.
With this, she will be a decent character, especially with her new skill set. But without any changes, I'm not sure if even her new skill set will save her from being mediocre.

Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?). You could sub warrior and have someone cast Magic Circuit on her to keep Meikyo Shisui going, and the damage+delay would be okay, but I still don't really see it being worth your time when you could have someone much more useful using up that slot instead. Maybe postgame with her eternal corridor and the Blood Sword for HP drain on normal attacks that would work, actually, but Remilia and Iku would be stiff competition for this job with their own endgame stuff and far stronger normal attack bases to get through DEF/MND with, plus they wouldn't need magic circuit to make their passives functional.

And yeah, if you're willing to Concentrate, her mp really isn't an issue; only Wind of Karma etc costs more than 10 and if you really want to use it, you can use a main equip. If you're fighting a single target boss that isn't weak to WND (a pretty uncommon boss weakness from what I remember...) she'll likely do about the same or more damage with Present Life Slash to be honest, with it's lower def influence. But at that point, you're not a whole lot worse off just using warrior normals. And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)

[Monothemeerp]

What's a good mage for floor wiping in you guys opinion? I feel only Sanae and Suwako hit hard enough to do the job. I tried building Alice and Marisa to do the same but they just can't cut it. Even with the same Mag they fail to one shot people.

I'm on floor 19-20 btw.

I usually adapt my trash cleaner party to hit the enemy's weakness (for example using Patchy for Princess Undine on the fire floors).

Yuyuko always works with her DTH and SPI is a decent enough element, plus she has a defense-piercing attack so that helps. Honestly, usually the mage you've invested the most in should cut it. I never had much trouble with floor trash wiping in LoT2, so... yeah. I've actually never tried an offensive build with Sanae, how effective is it? (I'd imagine Yasaka's Divine Wind would definitely benefit from it as well)

[Nyxnyx]

I usually adapt my trash cleaner party to hit the enemy's weakness (for example using Patchy for Princess Undine on the fire floors).

Yuyuko always works with her DTH and SPI is a decent enough element, plus she has a defense-piercing attack so that helps. Honestly, usually the mage you've invested the most in should cut it. I never had much trouble with floor trash wiping in LoT2, so... yeah. I've actually never tried an offensive build with Sanae, how effective is it? (I'd imagine Yasaka's Divine Wind would definitely benefit from it as well)

Sanae does a great job. Especially on the dark floor before the heaven, her spirit nuke wipe anything out in 1 hit except the purple gem that's weak to wind since it resists spirit. Just put a Kasen or Nazrin on the front line to finish the job.

But Sanae is bad on floor 19-20 since people there resists spirit so yeah.

[RegalStar]

If you're not averse to adjusting members, each stratum have popular elements to be weak to, so pick some characters with decent multi-target attacks in those elements, make them all Monks with Fast Dash and fire away.

[Kirin no Sora]

Huh? But... if you're using regular attacks, her damage is going to be abysmal; not even close to being worth activating Meikyo Shisui (it's nice, it's not god. Monk+Strategist puts you at 100% forever which is sweet, but if you're normal attacking what's the point of having those buffs?). You could sub warrior and have someone cast Magic Circuit on her to keep Meikyo Shisui going, and the damage+delay would be okay, but I still don't really see it being worth your time when you could have someone much more useful using up that slot instead. Maybe postgame with her eternal corridor and the Blood Sword for HP drain on normal attacks that would work, actually, but Remilia and Iku would be stiff competition for this job with their own endgame stuff and far stronger normal attack bases to get through DEF/MND with, plus they wouldn't need magic circuit to make their passives functional.

And yeah, if you're willing to Concentrate, her mp really isn't an issue; only Wind of Karma etc costs more than 10 and if you really want to use it, you can use a main equip. If you're fighting a single target boss that isn't weak to WND (a pretty uncommon boss weakness from what I remember...) she'll likely do about the same or more damage with Present Life Slash to be honest, with it's lower def influence. But at that point, you're not a whole lot worse off just using warrior normals. And... hey, wait a second! If you're concentrating every other turn, you're instantly doing half the damage most other characters can pull off, because you're wasting half of your turns doing the same or less damage than they would. zzzzz. This is why Youmu is bad. If you have to concentrate every other turn, the fact she does the same or less damage as everyone else suddenly turns into doing effectively half their damage. But yeah in end-postgame she'll have a huge damage up to make up for that... albiet it's gimmicky so she'll still be meh, but, vastly more usable. (Plus in postgame you can sorta fix her MND and make her tankier. Or just tweak her HP harder for regen, but.)

*blink*

I got it! Youmu needs Grand Incantation as a skill to buff her damage so that she can hit harder(she'll be using concentrate every other turn, so it makes sense). Would that work?