東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

[Drake]

Yet another thing:

Spoiler:

Ringo talks about "the Moon's style [of fighting], yet basically describes that you can't take a single hit, which is exactly the same as Spell Card Rules anyways. If I were to guess, I would say that 1) this is a way to reconcile the moon rabbits seemingly adhering to spell card rules, and 2) this seems to be a nudge by ZUN, in the sense of "Gee, what a 'coincidence' that the Spell Card Rules that may or may not have been drafted up by a mysterious unknown third party is similar to something from the Moon?!?!?"

[Maiden Synnae ミ☆]

Reisen's bombs give you several free hits but make your hitbox considerably larger while its active.

Oh, thanks! That will probably help me a lot since I only play for survival anyway. :V

I guess I'm getting too old and rusty on video games. Maybe I should retire, lol.

[not ZUNs wife]

Thinking about this further, I was starting to anticipate a curveball for Pointdevice mode. While I have no problem with it, I don't see ZUN letting the game just loop nicely all the way to credits.

Then it hit me. The final boss won't have any checkpoints, because their power nullifies the Ultramarine medicine. Of course it does.

[BB]

I feel like the threshold to get more bomb pieces should alter based on difficulty... it's very hard to get enough graze in Easy mode to get bomb pieces unless you leave everything alive long enough- and then you don't get the shooting bonus. It's also clear that a lot of rebalancing will need to be done to the length of each checkpoint, with the last one in Stage 3 being pretty much the entire second half of the stage.

Still, ZUN says he's still working on the system, so a lot of niggles will probably be ironed out by the Final release.

[aListers]

I'm very much enjoying this new pointdevice system. After completing ESOD on normal (as well as most touhou games at the time) I decided that a 1CC was what I needed to aim at to improve. Unfortunately I never got much past stage 4 with a 1CC. This has lead to me instinctively ragequitting whenever I die twice in quick fashion or for doing something really stupid. This new system has made a fun way of getting round that. The difficulty is a lot higher but it's to make up for the fact that you can try and try again. Thing is that it makes me really want to do that. I hope that they release the full game in the west so that I can buy it and play the crap out of it. This new system was exactly what I needed to get my skill back after suddenly finding out that I was terrible at touhou about a month ago. I hope that this new system is here to stay because I need it.

[Sagus]

Mother of hell this is hard. Even easy is quite above my skill level (which admittedly is very, very low). Freaking Doremy, what even are those spellcards

Spoiler:

Reisen's species is listed as human in Legacy in Lunatic Kingdom. It could be an error, but that is not very likely.

Spoiler:

Drake already explained the joke, but in addition to that, the very first line of the description portion of her profile refers to her as a Moon Rabbit. So... yeah.

[aUsernameIsFineToo]

I hope that they release the full game in the west so that I can buy it and play the crap out of it.

THIS.

If the release of DDC on Playism is anything to go by, we should all be looking forward to LoLK being released the same way once the full version is out. Hopefully that won't be too long after the disks start getting sold.

[Drake]

Thinking about this further, I was starting to anticipate a curveball for Pointdevice mode. While I have no problem with it, I don't see ZUN letting the game just loop nicely all the way to credits.

Then it hit me. The final boss won't have any checkpoints, because their power nullifies the Ultramarine medicine. Of course it does.

The Ultramarine Orb medicine lets you experience the potential future, not go backwards. I'm not too sure how that can be circumvented.

[Valar]

although Eirin has been referred to as Human since PMiSS

That's because Akyuu didn't know about lunarians and honestly thought Eirin (and Kaguya too) is human. PMiSS is not completely accurate.

[Drake]

Spoiler:

That's the whole point. She isn't -actually- human, just as Reisen isn't -actually- human. Despite being Lunarian and rabbit youkai, they choose to do human-like things (like the concept of "working") and essentially masquerade as humans. Eirin was just a case where she could fool people easily (although her behaviour is considered very weird, for good reason), while Reisen (as shown in FS) has to hide being a youkai but otherwise integrates with humans. As mentioned, this was a recurring theme throughout CiLR. I'm saying that ZUN is making a nod to all this (and also perhaps emphasizing Reisen being on the side of humans, against the other moon rabbits) by putting it in her profile. Obviously she didn't literally turn into a human.

[Sagus]

This is really important: If you get a checkpoint and pause the game and then just close the game. Or I guess even if it crashes for some reason. I you start the game again and select the same difficulty and character as before closing out of the game, it will ask you if you want to keep playing at your checkpoint. So you can actually play until like stage two, get stuck, close the game and try going further at a later time. This is awesome.

Edit: Further testing shows, the game can save a waypoint for each individual character, maybe even difficulty? And you can even quit back to title to save your progress for each individual player.

Edit2: Yes, every difficulty can also have his own save. So you can have a Reimu on hard in stage 3 and a Reimu on easy on stage 1 and a Marisa on normal in stage 2 all saved at the same time.

Just noticed this, but this"save" feature also restores your power to the amount it was when the checkpoint was made if you exit and load the save. So, even if you die so much that you run out of power, you can just exit to the main menu and load the save again to get it all back.

[Ozzy]

Just noticed this, but this"save" feature also restores your power to the amount it was when the checkpoint was made if you exit and load the save. So, even if you die so much that you run out of power, you can just exit to the main menu and load the save again to get it all back.

I thought that your point item value also went down from reloading waypoints. Does exiting the game reset that too?

[Sagus]

I thought that your point item value also went down from reloading waypoints. Does exiting the game reset that too?

Just did a quick check; as far as I could see that value does not go down at all when you reload a waypoint. Unless it goes down one at a time, which I didn't really die in a row enough to see.

[Tengukami]

Yet another thing:

Spoiler:

Ringo talks about "the Moon's style [of fighting], yet basically describes that you can't take a single hit, which is exactly the same as Spell Card Rules anyways. If I were to guess, I would say that 1) this is a way to reconcile the moon rabbits seemingly adhering to spell card rules, and 2) this seems to be a nudge by ZUN, in the sense of "Gee, what a 'coincidence' that the Spell Card Rules that may or may not have been drafted up by a mysterious unknown third party is similar to something from the Moon?!?!?"

Ha! That would be a telling origin story.

Also it seems the graphic problem a few of us have seen is in Stage 2. I also got the giant, floating hitbox in the middle of the screen, persisting through spellcards. It's kinda neat looking though.

Grazing on Easy (best I can manage on Pointdevice, still struggle with Normal Legacy) I can second is hard, for exactly the same reason BB mentioned. Except during spell cards, when graze goes off like a Geiger counter. I hover at around three bombs throughout. Getting point items by shooting at bullets that consequently spray more bullets at you adds to the fun.

Just did a quick check; as far as I could see that value does not go down at all when you reload a waypoint. Unless it goes down one at a time, which I didn't really die in a row enough to see.

Also handy to know!

[Nolegs the Cat]

Lunatic in this game is completely bonkers :V

Oh, and Sanae's shot type... just, pure, pure undiluted awesome.

Too bad Reisen's shot-type isn't very good, though.

Also, grazing stops point/power items from falling.

[Tengukami]

I guess where grazing is concerned it might be feasible to go virtually pacifist, bosses excepted, if you blast your way to 4 quickly enough. There are some replays on the High Score board on HME that I'm going to take a look at.

[SomeGuy712x]

Hmm... Are the Pointdevice checkpoints that come immediately after a spell card not actually saving the points gained from that spell card bonus? I noticed that if I bit it on the pattern following a spell card that I captured and got the bonus for, my score was a few million points lower than I think it should've been at when I restarted from the checkpoint.

[HertzDevil]

Also, [Doremy's] theme keeps making me think of Alice's PCB theme.

Yes, they have nearly the same chord progression in the intro, as does Ran's theme and Reisen herself's theme. It is quite refreshing to see ZUN bring that back from the previous games.

I dare say that every track in LoLK is better than the respective track in DDC that appears at the same location (except perhaps Ringo's theme).

[Nolegs the Cat]

How long does Reisen's bomb last?

[Totalheartsboy]

How long does Reisen's bomb last?

I wouldn't exactly call it a bomb, but it lasts as long as you don't take many hits.

[TresserT]

How long does Reisen's bomb last?

Until you get hit. It's like SA Nitori or DDC SakuyaA, but you can get hit up to three times. It does not cause a screen clear and gives very little invincibility frames.

[Nolegs the Cat]

Until you get hit. It's like SA Nitori or DDC SakuyaA, but you can get hit up to three times. It does not cause a screen clear and gives very little invincibility frames.

... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.

[ふねん1]

So I just spent a bit of time with this game, and hoo boy is this leaps and bounds harder than DDC's patterns, which is saying something. And I've only seen Stage 1 so far. Trying to learn how to do stuff without bombing is a fair challenge, but those "flying-V wisps" are giving me real headaches. May have to steal a strategy from someone else who's already figured out an easier way to manage them lol. I can definitely see this being one of those games like DDC where I use the patterns to really push the limits of my skills and/or serve as a warm-up after a hiatus, though perfecting stages and other survival challenges may remain out of my reach without more dedicated practice.

I'm not sure I'm sold on Pointdevice Mode though. Having the waypoints is cool for practicing something later into a stage without having to restart all the time, but unless you can do something similar in Practice Mode itself in the full version, it may well become obsolete like Tengukami suggested (it would be easier just replaying that stage instead of trying to work your way to that point in the main game). Plus, one of the main reasons someone might use this feature for practice would be to find a way to score that 1 million points for a bomb fragment, but you need to trigger the next waypoint to find out if you succeeded, meaning you can no longer restart that waypoint and continue practicing (don't get me wrong, being able to pick and choose from multiple waypoints would be kinda broken, so perhaps this is more of a necessary evil). Also, am I the only one who finds it odd that there's no option on the pause screen to restart from the beginning of Stage 1 in Pointdevice Mode? Kinda compounds the whole unwieldiness of it as a way to practice specific spots of the game. I've honestly been doing most of my playing in Legacy Mode for that last reason - I don't have to go all the way back to the main menu if I want to study how to get a bomb fragment, or even learn how to handle the transitions between a stage section and a (mid)boss attack (yes, those are a thing). And I need to burn the earlier sections into my memory anyway.

About the graze gimmick and points-for-lives:

WELCOME TO SUBTERRANEAN ANIMISM, IN SPACE!!!

But SA has fragments-for-lives. :/

[Tengukami]

I'm not sure I'm sold on Pointdevice Mode though. Having the waypoints is cool for practicing something later into a stage without having to restart all the time, but unless you can do something similar in Practice Mode itself in the full version, it may well become obsolete like Tengukami suggested (it would be easier just replaying that stage instead of trying to work your way to that point in the main game).

Just to clarify, I point this out to say the gameplay for Pointdevice likely has something to do with the narrative. Ditto the reason you can't resume the stage.

[SirSlarty]

I don't like Marisa but her profile pic in LoLK is really pretty especially for ZUNart.

[mauve]

I was watching a friend play on stream last night and he noted that Pointdevice Mode felt like playing a romhack with save states, all the way to the music coming back to the same place every time.

Which I can totally see. It does give the same vibe of throwing yourself at something until you get through well enough for the next thing.

[SomeGuy712x]

How long does Reisen's bomb last?

It lasts until you get hit 3 times (like others said), or until you clear the stage you're on. I noticed that upon clearing a stage, any remaining shields I had were gone at the beginning of the next stage.

[TresserT]

... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.

Oh, that might have been misleading. It clears bullets in a small circle after getting hit, but it doesn't do a full screen clear. You know when you die in Len'En? It's kind of the same, just with less invincibility frames.

It's not as great as it sounds. Plus Reisen is kind of meh as a shottype.

Eh, while I'm here I'll describe all the shottypes. Reimu is TD Reimu. Because the patterns in this game are so dense it can be hard to move around the screen. Her homing is extremely useful because of this. Her bomb is standard Fantasy Seal. As usual, her only "weakness" is that there are gimmicky shottypes that are better than her.

Marisa is DDC MarisaB, but with Master Spark for a bomb. The lasers are not piercing. She's strong and her focus shot does splash damage, but she has no range. Typical Marisa. And like I said, the patterns get really dense so Marisa will have a lot of trouble during stages.

Sanae's unfocused shot is like UFO SanaeB, her focused is like UFO SanaeA. Unfocused, she shoots slow moving frogs in a spread, and the frogs do splash damage. Focused, she has pseudo-homing. She fires snakes vertically. Once the snakes reach the height of an enemy, they move horizontally and hit that enemy. She can't hit enemies below her. (It's the same as UFO SanaeA). Her bomb is the same as UFO SanaeB's, the really long and really powerful one. I personally can't find any weaknesses with her.

Reisen's unfocused shot is a spread type. It's somewhat similar to MS Yuuka or IN Yuyuko- the individual bullets are strong, the spread covers a wide area, but you can't really shotgun with it. Her focused shot is a weak piercing type. Her bomb is like SA MarisaC or DDC SakuyaA, but it has no time limit and you can get hit up to four(?) times before the bomb ends. That said, it only clears a few bullets around Reisen and it gives very few invincibility frames so it's not as broken as it sounds. It's not noticable first but at full power Reisen will be doing much less damage than the other shottypes, and her bomb deals no damage at all.

[Mero]

... So it's pretty much clip deaths be-gone?
Not sure if that's broken or not

Though the fact each bomb essentially transforms into... 4? extra lives probably/definitely is.

it also makes Reisen's hitbox considerably larger, so I don't think it is that broken

Speaking of shottypes, the fact that Reimu's needle streams don't completely hit bosses bugs me like you have no idea

[TresserT]

Speaking of shottypes, the fact that Reimu's needle streams don't completely hit bosses bugs me like you have no idea

Story of my life T_T That's pretty much why I don't use Yukari in Subterranean Animism.