東方Project 15 東方紺珠伝 ～ Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.

[Nameschonvergeben]

How about you point out all the people or the place where they are agreeing with you instead of simply saying it, which anyone can do?

Read the thread

[Plastic Vortex]

New game with Reisen?

YESSSSSSS.

Hmm if the game is gonna involve Hoori, then perhaps Konohana Sakuya would make an appearance?? Konohana Sakuya is the mother of Hoori and was mentioned in Mokou's backstory. (unless it was Iwanaga hime)

Although I highly doubt that because if it has connections to the sea/moon, the goddess of Mount Fuji would appear.

[cuc]

New game with Reisen?

YESSSSSSS.

Hmm if the game is gonna involve Hoori, then perhaps Konohana Sakuya would make an appearance?? Konohana Sakuya is the mother of Hoori and was mentioned in Mokou's backstory. (unless it was Iwanaga hime)

Although I highly doubt that because if it has connections to the sea/moon, the goddess of Mount Fuji would appear.

Both Konohana-Sakuya-hime and Iwanaga-hime have been mentioned in last month's Forbidden Scrollery.

I don't think these mythological figures will appear in the games; rather, these callbacks, including Mokou in ULiL and astronomy in WaHH signify a general return of motifs from the Bougetsushou era.

[GoKonRin]

Doesn't seem like this has been mentioned in the thread after a quick read through.

The following paragraphs are in the first chapter of CoLA:

With the 12 volumes I have on hand, and the three volumes there, that's a total of 15 volumes combined. I have no doubt that this is a set of 15 volumes. The shikigami of the outside world are the same as the ones in Gensokyo after all. With computers, F represents 15, and F is the state wherein everything is compounded. It was written that when everything becomes F, the highest value is held. I think that it's natural for 15 to have power; even in ancient times, 15 meant perfection in this country. The same reason the full moon is also known as the fifteenth night. Computers must be familiars that have resulted from the ideas of the East and the beauty of the moon.

Marisa asked me what I was thinking about as she lined up the three books. Through Marisa's nonchalant actions, I realized something else. The numbers on the books, 13, 14, and 15, when lined up, makes 131415. If the 1 in front is removed, it then depicts the number that represents a perfect circle, 3.1415. This also means a full moon. And thus my theory that the familiars of the outside world use the power of the moon becomes truth. I wanted to research more in regards to the shikigami of the outside world, but to do that, I required these books.

Lots and lots of links between the number 15 and the moon

[Mikuru]

This is particularly interesting because Sakuya's name is written with the kanji 十六夜 -- sixteenth night. If ZUN is thinking about the above numerology, dare we hope for the truth about Sakuya to be revealed next game?

Also, sixteen is twice eight, and TH16 would be the third game of a trilogy, as TH08 was. Perhaps the variations in the playable character roster are all setting things up for another IN-like game -- the teams could be Reimu/Sanae, Marisa/Alice, Sakuya/Reisen and Youmu/Komachi. Now that would be awesome.

Now that it was mentioned, as much as I like her, I'm not the least bit upset that Sakuya dropped out. I mean, just look at her shottypes in DDC. One is broken, the other is useless. I do remember ZUN saying he can't think of a good way to show her ability in her shottype, even before DDC. So if it means someone more balanced gets a place in the roster, I'm all for it.

I'm perfectly happy with how her shot-type was handled in PCB. He should just go back to that

[snowflake247]

A possible but overly formulaic plot for Touhou 15 would actually be: a Lunarian in exile wanted to settle down in Gensokyo, and tried to make it better resemble her Lunar Capital home by creating seas in Gensokyo using the tide jewel.

That sounds a little like Marine Benefit in my opinion. (MB wasn't about a Lunarian, but the general plot was similar: someone creates a sea in Gensokyo and this causes an incident.)

I'm perfectly happy with how her shot-type was handled in PCB. He should just go back to that

PCB SakuyaB was awesome, probably my favorite shottype in the game (tied with ReimuB.) It would be great if ZUN made a shottype like that again.

[Tiamat]

You say that, but, and I know this is kinda nitpicky, there is really no telling if she is pounding mochi or a spirit/ghost. Or ghost-mochi. I know it's mostly the face and the immediate thought of the return of the smug ghost from SA's title screen, but really, with this art style, you can only tell from context.

It's some kind of sperm youkai and Reimu is keyakking.

At any rate, like I said in the next post, the "Moon's power" is identified as the antagonistic force  in Reisen's story text, too.

While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I recall ZUN saying the Reduced to One and I recall it being in regards to Sakuya, but I don't recall any mentions of Lunarians during the fact (IE, any confirmation that Sakuya actually DID have a connection to the moon).  Is this recollection correct?  Been a while.

[Tengukami]

Lots and lots of links between the number 15 and the moon

That is really interesting. Really nice to see how ZUN ties in the literary narrative with the games, as always, but 15 is already looking promising.

[Nimono]

• I wonder if this game will have anything to do with the moon at all or if we are led astray. Lunatic =/= Lunar, Kingdom =/= Capital. Reisen is a good indicator that the moon is involved, but Youmu was also a good indicator for more ghosts in TD as well... Maybe we are just going somewhere craaazy? The colors would be good indicator, if anything. And ... Reisen fit's crazy quite well, too. She is the Lunatic Moon Rabbit after all (not Lunar)

I'd just like to point out that while "lunatic" may not directly be "lunar", both words come from the same base of "luna", moon. It appears "Lunatic" comes from an old latin word meaning "moonstruck", which means pretty much the exact same thing as "lunatic"; all relating to the moon due to, if I recall correctly, an ancient correlation between insanity and the moon. Heck, we've seen that in Touhou before- Stage 6B of Imperishable Night brings it up on a few teams! Knowing how all the English names still relate to the plot of the games, I would not be surprised if "Lunatic" in this situation referred to the moon.


Furthermore, ignoring the fact that the little story snippet we've seen thus far outright states the moon's power is behind the game's plot, the fact that Reisen's involved is absolute proof that the plot relates to the moon- note how the past 3 'guests' were involved because of a relation with the incident. Youmu in Ten Desires because the plot related to spirits, and thus affected her home, and Sakuya in DDC because she was personally affected- otherwise, she wouldn't have been involved! From this, we can then assume that Reisen's involved here because the incident relates to her background and/or her home.



Also regarding the title screen, I actually thought Reimu was holding a giant spirit paintbrush until I read the thread more!

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Heck, we've seen that in Touhou before- Stage 6B of Imperishable Night brings it up on a few teams!

There's also Imperishable Nights's Extra Stage flavor text, "The moon drives people mad".

[PK]

While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

I recall ZUN saying the Reduced to One and I recall it being in regards to Sakuya, but I don't recall any mentions of Lunarians during the fact (IE, any confirmation that Sakuya actually DID have a connection to the moon).  Is this recollection correct?  Been a while.

Was there a source for this thing? I looked in the wiki but there aren't any near the quote, despite being something apparently important.

[Raikaria]

ZUNart seems to have gone backwards compared to 14.

Return of Sanae and Reisen? Interesting.

But as per usual; I'm more interested in the new characters to analyze and such. I'm not too fussed about the old characters we know about already.

[Sixten]

So busy hunting for Uzuki (Kancolle's rabbit girl) that I completely missed Reisen stepping into the spotlight. Reisen is more awesome than Uzuki will ever be. You won't see me making an Uzuki fanbook.

Even if this is the first canonical appearance I can remember of Reisen with a gun, I feel like she's had the gun all along. It just feels right.

I was hoping Youmu would be playable in the game as well (think of all the new Youmu/Reisen illustrations that would appear), but you can't have everything. Youmu might still make a surprise appearance, you never know.

When playing Toho danmaku games I've always chosen Reimu by default. This time, it will be different.

[Maple]

Can someone say the name of this spell card? At least the part in katakana, the kanji being more complex that you can't see the strokes in this low res image. The best i can get is イーク[missing section]ツ[missing]ンク, someone could get to fill the blanks.

Edit: ↓ well maybe it was a recent addition to the op, i sure did miss it.

[Fastest Thing Alive]

Can someone say the name of this spell card? At least the part in katakana, the kanji being more complex that you can't see the strokes in this low res image. The best i can get is イーク[missing section]ツ[missing]ンク, someone could get to fill the blanks.

The enemy spell card in a screenshot is Bullet Sign "Eagle Shooting".

I assume its that.

[Tiamat]

Even if this is the first canonical appearance I can remember of Reisen with a gun, I feel like she's had the gun all along. It just feels right.

IIRC, the lunar rabbits in SSiB had guns.

[FLASH]

ha! i had a feeling we had touhou 15 coming and not another spinoff game! great news (yeah i'm late to the party) :derp: now what can i say that hasn't been discussed by everyone already...?

-it has to be really very different from the traditionnal games for him to speak of it as a "big thing" in such a way and going out of its way to say it's experimental in the game's announcment. curious to see what that means. what i think though, is that this one will be like this because it's the 20th anniversary game, like Fantasmagoria. i don't think whatever radically new gimmicks it have will carry over to the future titles (i hope the 6 level format at least remains there as it's part of the serie's identity at least for me).

-definitely enjoying Reimu's badass pose in the dialogue picture  i was like "damn", first thing i noticed lol! so far i like the art better than DDC in this one: it seem more like the hallmark ZUN-art, as it was at the time of TD. the DDC characters were just... weird. i don't know they weren't ugly or anything but they just seemed like something was a bit off compared to all the other games.

-couldn't care less for playable Reisen (sorry, i just don't find her character all that interesting. personnal preferences i guess, heh), but lots of you seem very hyped to see her in so good for you! plus she fits perectly for the games' theme so no problem.
but i call OBJECTION ! on breaking the rule of humans as main characters: touhou 15 is definitely looking to be a non-traditionnal game in the series, so i don't think it counts in that case. again, Phantasmagoria was also a full-number game, yet it had playable youkai, no 6 stage format, ect... because it was just a special case for the anniversary.

-one thing that i'm pleased to see though is ZUN revisiting the whole moon motif. story and atmosphere wise however it's one of the most striking, deep and intense part of the ZUN mythology in my opinion, i can't really explain why i think it just works well with his style of storytelling, atmosphere, characters ect... SSIB or IN for exemple are some of the best exemples of the spirit and atmsophere of touhou in my opinion.
also, i'm just telling you if the Watatsuki sisters are somehow into this, i'm gonna go ballistic or explode or something!  :3
though i only see them as extra stage boss. or even more likely: if they appear at all, they'll just have a cameo appearance in the ending and not as ennemy. even that'd still be cool though!

could this also mean the coming back of IN style music? with the glorious screeching trumpets and everything? yes please, ZUN, don't mind if you do! 


oh, and one last thing: for the Last anniversary in PoFV, ZUN did bring back an iconic PC-98 character, that used to be playable, had green hair, and was a fan favourite...
now let's see, who else could he bring back this time around.... hmmmm....  :V :V :V :V :V
(not a chance...)

[cuc]

While it would be really cool to have that connection finally explained, I feel like we won't ever get an explanation for it (similarly with that of Maribel and Yukari.) ZUN did say that it was so big that if he talks about that connection, then the games would all be reduced to one. Could just be ZUN being ZUN, but well...

"All games reduced to one" is a Western community myth. All ZUN said was:

1) In a pre-IN message on his bulletin board, he said he should also write down Sakuya's backstory, which of course he never did except providing a few theories in PMiSS;
2) Sakuya's IN profile mentioned that Eirin was slightly surprised when she saw Sakuya, but this element was not brought up in the game story itself.

[TresserT]

Honestly, I'm really curious now. Does ZUN even remember that it's the 20th anniversary? I haven't heard about him commenting on that subject anywhere. And IIRC he almost forgot about the 10th anniversary, though that could be my brain making things up. Is it possible that this is just another game?

[cuc]

Those are the kind of things he won't forget. Yes, he talked about it more than once in the monthly Nikenme Radio stream.

ZUN calls this game "the game for Touhou Project's 20th anniversary (not really)".

[game2011]

To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon

[Flandre5carlet]

"All games reduced to one" is a Western community myth.

So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...

could this also mean the coming back of IN style music? with the glorious screeching trumpets and everything? yes please, ZUN, don't mind if you do! 

Yes please, give me more of the glorious ZUNpets!

[Helepolis]

To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon

Was already mentioned.

So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...

Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V

Also regarding Sakuya, ZUN will never explain her like he barely explains stuff, especially now that Sakuya isn't even playable for this game. Damn you ZUN :V

[Flandre5carlet]

Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V

Well, I usually verify the stuff I read there by checking the source, or looking up the original material - for example when I read the unsourced claim that Akyuu described youkai as stronger than they actually are in the Perfect Memento, I read the entire thing to find where that claim was.
It's just hard to find material on an unsourced statement about something ZUN allegedly said, so I figured I should just take their word for it.
But turns out they just made it up for whatever reason.

[game2011]

Was already mentioned.
Wikis have never been a reliable source in general. Never blindly trust :V

Doesn't mean everything it says cannot be trusted.  You can't, like, accuse it of being unreliable and lying when it says the Earth is round, can't you?  It's still one of the best sources of information for first timers of certain subjects.?

And didn't see the "sea thing" earlier when I wanted to make my post, even though I searched, albeit not seriously...

[Starxsword]

So, first, Mokou playable in Urban Legend in Limbo and now Reisen (first playable non-human in main game) Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom.
That seems pretty crazy. So, what are the rest of the Eientei crew up to?

[the old guy]

Youmu is perfection personified! the game has to be really good for me to consider playing it without Youmu in it.

I'm Youmu fan too, but i really hope that your just joking, because as awesome as she is, even Youmu isn't perfect. (The girl's a HALF-GHOST, and yet somehow she's AFRAID of half of her!)

As for the game itself, it sounds it like it will be good, and...
.....that's all i have to say about it.
 \:V/

[cuc]

To add more likeliness that this game is both water and moon-related, check out the word "ultramarine" in the Japanese title.  It comes from a Latin word meaning "beyond the sea." On the moon, certain parts of it are called "seas" by astronomers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_maria_on_the_Moon

First of all, everyone who read SSiB knows the moon seas are composed of real water in Touhou. Or more accurately, the seas in the "fantasy" version of the moon are, because that's how people imagined it.

In addition, I gotta point out, "ultramarine" was just the word I chose to translate the color 紺. Color words are generally tricky to translate between cultures. The memory-recalling jewel was supposed to be 紺碧 in color, which is a dark blue color, used to describe the oceans, the evening and dawning skies, and gems. I knew the etymology of "ultramarine" (having just read about it a few weeks ago), I knew it's safe to use a word that suggests both the sea and lapis lazuli, while another option, "navy blue" is too modern (originating from British Royal Navy uniforms).

[Tiamat]

So that part of the wiki is just... made up? Geez... And here I thought it was supposed to be reliable...

Where is that statement of "Reduced to one" in the wiki in the first place, anyways?

[Flandre5carlet]

Where is that statement of "Reduced to one" in the wiki in the first place, anyways?

On Sakuya's profile, under Relationships > Residents of Eientei. Speaking of, I went ahead and added a citation needed note to it...

Also, ZUN said that "if I talk about the relation between these two, then the games would all be reduced to one, so I left it out". On how this will be portrayed in future works is uncertain.