SCP Containment Breach Mafia - Game Over

[SB]

Still think SB is scummy. Pretty much agreeing with stuff Raikaria said about SB while I was gonna, especially the tunneling. Before being called out he only posted 2 lines questioning NNR and nothing else.

I was in the middle of posting reads on other people anyway? I just posted it in chunks so it wouldn't turn into a massive wall and at the point I'd read up to none of the other posts have jumped out as suspicious.

BT and Dan's catch up content was fairly solid at a first glance but I want to see where they take it today, consider BT's only suspicion is dead and Dan didn't have any at all. I'm also not really fond of Dan's stance on NNR where he says he thinks he's kind of town but says he could be wrong and decides to let the lynch just happen, and similarly with Raitaki saying "NNR is improving" close to the lynch without saying how, it just looks kind of like he was doing damage control.

WRT Refa's Slot: After you've played a few games with him he tends to be transparent since he just tends to enjoy himself much more when he's a townie than as scum and nothing in his posts have been particularly objectionable. I can kind of see Vhaltz's "what if he subbed because he was scum" but it could've just as easily been because he was busy and he's had a similar activity pattern in town games before, so I don't really want to lynch him unless Sky happens to do something outrageous.

I'm not sure if Raikaria is as scummy as I thought or if I just got kind of mad. Probably a bit of both. Gonna reskim the thread again in a few minutes to look into BT/Dan/Raitaki further.

[Vhaltz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEoMI9BwHp4

^ click the link it will be glorious

[ActionDan]

Hi, I'm a self-watcher (it was passive), and was targetted and vanillized! 

The person in question has about 5 secs to explain why they choose me.

[Raikaria]

Hi, I'm a self-watcher (it was passive), and was targetted and vanillized! 

The person in question has about 5 secs to explain why they choose me.

Interesting.

Although 5 seconds is probobly a little awkward seeing timezones and everything.

I can think of reasons why I would vanillize you; but I did no such action.

Wondering how Valtz was an Insominac. It doesn't say it anywhere in his role. I can only speculate that someone in the game has the ability to grant others Insomina for a night phase.

Raitaki suspicions seem to have good basis. Still pretty busy will get around to looking at that properly after dinner.

[Raikaria]

Actually I think it's better to withhold on the Raitaki cases until Dorian is given a chance to give his cents. Maybe he explains the hive mind's processes better than Raitaki can.

Combined with Dan's revelation; yeah; I think here it's best to wait in the peanut gallery until the questions are answered.

[SB]

I procrastinated and went to play games instead.

Dan, did only one person visit you or what? This is important.

[ActionDan]

Let's say it's a distinct possibility that either one or more people visited.

[Dorian White]

The bell rang and the stalker, ... um diplomat appears.

This might be a disappointing first post but I saw enough misinterpretations about our SB case that we see our-self forced to clarify it once and for all.

The only real read I have I have is based on Raikaria's last post where he basically says that his case was bad because it was trying to generate discussion, which feels like he's trying to make himself unaccountable for his vote and he doesn't actually address my criticisms of it at all and try to rectify anything from it. ...

This was our starting point, and we can still say two things about it, even without looking at anything else. First it's highly speculative and secondly it's the ?generic day one Raikaria case?. And if we now look at the so questionable ?Last post? , which we interpreted as ?You have to start somewhere.?, then you see why we had to insist on a clarification, which turned out like this:

I'm pretty sure between this post and mine and Dan's responses it was implied as being pretty bad.

Aside from the hilarious fact that he's apparently unable to pinpoint the source of his ?only real read? better than ?it was implied somewhere?, is it a level of obscuring that we can't tolerate.
Now to everyone who still think that this case had any kind of valued, just one question. How does something that was nebulous implied somewhere any implication on Raikaria trying to give a specific impression?
Just as a hint, it doesn't at all.

And since we saw nothing that made up for that impression.

##Vote: SB

Well, with the pleasant matter out of the way will we have a quick break to gather our thoughts before we try to paint the big picture.

[BT]

The vanillizer wasn't me. It's possible the mafia have a vanillizer, but a village one may as well come clean now and not later.

I wanted to wait until SB addresses Raitaki, but that's probably not a big game-changer anyway. Here's why I did that - they're my suspects right now. That's where looking at the playerlist led me, and when I went back to look at the early interactions between the two, I noticed they're a little strange. Raitaki calls SB out for twisting words and probably jumped the gun quite a bit, but SB chalks it up to a difference in interpretation. Not the end of the world, but why does SB continue to ignore Raitaki after post #62, where Raitaki does nothing but press the point and accuse SB of more things (like not saying the case was bad immediately, and weaving something out of nothing)? SB clearly made rounds reading several players that weren't Raikaria, so for him to completely ignore Raitaki here (where he was also debunking SB's case, that SB was defending from Raikaria) is really fishy. Raitaki himself had weirded me out with his SB case and it's an appealing prospect that he was able to push it through because he was biased and knew his buddy was bad. The hard bussing / tunneling is weird, but at the same time he pretty much parks his vote there without pushing the wagon forward or addressing SB's newer posts, so it's possible. SB's post today continues the trend of giving Raitaki a low priority. He also completely missed my suspicion of Raitaki (how was this possible?) by saying my only suspect died, but I don't even know what to make of that one.

The most appealing scenario for SB-town considering all this is that he just forgot about Raitaki and focused on Raikaria, but again, considering the situation, it's really weird that it happened at all. It's not like SB wasn't paying attention to the game at the time, and it would make sense for SB-scum to focus mostly on the townie arguing with him and deliberately turn a blind eye to his buddy. This implicates SB more than it does Raitaki, because SB-scum could have just ignored Raitaki-town because he doesn't care, but Raitaki is scummy in his own right. Bonus argument: this is a pretty interesting point in the game to start procrastinating, but I guess I'm not one to judge. Bonus bonus: not very satisfied with how SB backed away from Raikaria.

That's not the only thing that makes me lean this way - there's also NK analysis. Vhaltz asking for doc protection while being Jailor is a very Vhaltz-y thing to do, but that thought hadn't occured to me until after I saw the flip - I had understandably forgotten some aspects of his play after... probably more than a year since playing a game with him. That wouldn't be the case for SB, or Refa, but Refa subbed out. It's not a compelling arguement, but it's the most compelling explanation I can think of for killing someone who was apparently an insomniac asking for protection. Thinking about it a little more, it could have been a strongman, but that's a little weird for an 8-man setup, and I thought I'd share, anyway.

I said the playerlist led me here, and that's because I'm pretty confident Raikaria is town, and (recently) I'm inclined to believe Dan. Not sure about Refa_Paladin, but SB citing meta / transparency and pronouncing Refa obvtown makes me lean town there regardless of SB's alignment. I'm cut by Raitaki's slot voting SB, so let's dissect that. Okay, voting SB off the bat instead of mulling over general things is a good sign, but why is there no followup on the rest of SB's play? It's just the same tiny-scope accusations based around the ED1 case. (Tiny-scope because yes, there was logic behind that case and it's your slot that's taking it to outer space.) To be honest, the post and its timing doesn't make me think "bus", and for now I'm not sure which of the two would be scum if it's only one of them.

Good thing we have two lynches. :fail:

Nah, I'll keep thinking about it. I may as well get this out there for now. Actually, reading the last few posts again, I don't know if Dan was vanillized and had his action canceled or was vanillized and got his usual results anyway. One more thought to add to the ramble train.

[Mitsuki]

"Dorian let me resize that picture properly" Votecount (1)

Dorian/Raitaki (1): Sky Paladin
SB (1): Dorian/Raitaki

Not voting: everyone else
You have 62.2 hours left in this phase!

[Raikaria]

I'm pretty confident that there is a good chance [If I had to put a number on it; 80%] that there is a scum between SB and Raitaki simply by interactions between the two. The issue is which of the two are scum; if either. [Town v Town slapfights in MotK are not unheard of...]

Liking BT's most recent post a lot. Basically most of what BT is saying is sensible and I agree with at the current time.

SB's reaction post to Dan's statement makes me a little curious. The fact he's asking for specification on how many people visited makes me think SB probobly did visit ActionDan; although a vanillaiser isn't always a scum move, and he may not have even been the vanillaiser. I guess we'll need to wait for SB to cough it up.

I mean; I've seen setups where they are town-sided and work as a sort of pusedo-cop. Like Masons except there's no quicktopic; they fail on a scum.

That said; it is at the same time more likely to be a scum PR than a Town PR; depending on the number of PR's in the setup. With scum only having Bi-Nightly kills powerful scum roles would not surprise me.

Finally there's the chance that Dan is just lying about being Vanilla'ed in a gambit to get a mislynch but if that's the case it should become apparent soon. It almost seems like SB and Dan are reaction testing each other with their exchange. Also if he were to do this I'd expect him to do that in D3; not D2; since scum could kill N3.

Also seeing as Valtz died after calling for a Doc I guess there is no doc. But two protective roles in a game where scum has bi-nightly kills seems overkill anyway.

Unanswered questions need to get answered before I can make my picture. I think the Dan/SB interactions will be a strong indication of Raitaki/SB.

Also I kinda like Dorian's recent post. Much clearer in what he's getting across than Raitaki.

[Dorian White]

We knew that we should have gone to write our opinion post before refreshing the thread but whatever, this is way to good to let it pass.

So BT, can you tell us what SB has promised you or blackmailed you with to bring you to use ?Vetinaris methods? against me?^^
Honestly, harping on a early vote, that had to be flawed/forced based on the time it was made and was bound to be withdrawn based on who it was on. Oversimplifying the case of you ?suspect? that it hurts, nitpicking on words while ignoring the actual matter.
And now, interaction tells without flips? Na, the only reason why you didn't surpassed SB by now is that Vetinari wasn't scum and was actually scumhunting, even if it was in a halfhearted ?I'm in no position to care? kind of way.^^;

[Raikaria]

For the sake of the rest of us can you please explain what Vetinaris methods are Dorian?

[SB]

Apparently trying to mafiapost is conductive to GETTING AMBUSHED BY THE REAPER AGAIN WHY

Yeah, I was the one who targeted Dan last night. I asked about the number of people who targetted mostly for the sake of trying to force reactions out of other people who around, but meh. My role is kind of awkward and now that I think about it I should've probably used it on N2 instead considering there's no nightkill but hindsight is 20:20 I guess.  It's a weird 1-shot Cop/Vanillaizer hybrid where townies lose their roles and the mafia don't. If they're Vanilla to begin with, I keep my shot. I chose Dan because he's a difficult read and if he's town there was a good chance that scum might try and force a mislynch on him for inactivity.

Looking at the other players, BT is looking better than when he was Townest, it feels like he's posting now to catch scum rather than just because he needs to get the posts out there, even if his early activity levels were fairly similar. Raikaria is a bit better on the reread too and I think I was getting too emotionally charged and it screwed with my judgement, but if he isn't scum I'm not sure who else would be? Sky Paladin passes for now based on previous Refa posts but I want to see some content out of him soon, and BT and Dan are town. I'd rather lynch elsewhere first though consider PoE isn't always the most reliable thing.

##Vote: Raitaki/Dorian

Pretty sure this slot is scum. Raitaki's Day 1 is weak, his Day 1 is basically spent harping on me because of a difference in interpretation while saying "yeah lurker lynches are good" but never really makes an attempt to differentiate between their posts so much has how often they've posted and really this post just seems to admit he was testing the waters around Dan's lynch. The only time he wavers is for the sake of consolidation where he goes for NNR and even then he looks as if he was doing damage control even before the flip. Today Dorian is back on me but I feel like if Dorian and Raitaki were town they still would've talked at night and discussed the game beyond "man that SB sure is a maflord" and Dorian is essentially regurgitating the case Raitaki has been pushing since ED1 rather than taking a look at what I've posted as a whole.

@BT, scum could've been given a Strongman kill or something to that effect, or have simply shot Vhaltz anyway and taken a risk that the doc would wifom away from Vhaltz (which I probably would've done had I been in the doc's shoes.) If you think Raitaki and I are buddies, do you think he's deliberately pushed me almost exclusively throughout D1 when in Serela's game he was perfectly capable of spending his time murdering townies instead? Considering the amount of hate I got at the time it would've been a risky move to do so too unless he really wanted to be a Serial Killer?

[ActionDan]

it's nice to know that I'm confirmed town.

And I wasn't a self-watcher.  I certainly did have a role that was vanillized though.  If you guessed, "makes people insomniacs", you'd be right.  If you guessed that flavor wise, that I'd be a book, you'd probably be a scum rolecop.

[ActionDan]

so, SB, why not come out with being a vanillizer immediately.  I'd know if more people had targeted me etc. so it wouldn't have served any purpose to delay with you knowing I was town.

[SB]

I wanted more people to weigh in on the Vanillaized claim before I said anything, but nothing really stuck to me unfortunately.

[ActionDan]

I remember having a power whereby I vigged town and vanillizerized scum.  It was shitty.  yours is kinda shitty as well for a town power by the same token.

When you got your result back what was your immediate thought?

[Raikaria]

it's nice to know that I'm confirmed town.

And I wasn't a self-watcher.  I certainly did have a role that was vanillized though.  If you guessed, "makes people insomniacs", you'd be right.  If you guessed that flavor wise, that I'd be a book, you'd probably be a scum Roleclop.

I knew there was a 'makes people insomniac' in the game :3

Dangit SB you ruined my potential chance of nighttime fun.

Anyway; I don't think SB would have come clean in this situation; especially in such detail clearing Dan if he was scum. And since Raitaki/SB interactions makes me think one of those is probobly scum [And I'm not really alone on this opinion]...

Basically; what BT and SB have said about Raitaki makes sense to me. While some of what Dorian said I like; a lot of what Raitaki said I do not really like the look of; especially with the outlook I now have on SB due to the whole Actiondan thing. I don't really like how Raitaki pushed SB.

I'm willing to vote Raitaki/Dorian at this point.

#Vote: Raitaki/Dorian

 I'm a bit curious about Sky_Paladin's slot too. Wonder what will come from him without happy pills or drunkposting.

In before this is a crazy gambit from SB and Actiondan. I'd laugh so much if that was the case.

[SB]

I remember having a power whereby I vigged town and vanillizerized scum.  It was shitty.  yours is kinda shitty as well for a town power by the same token.

When you got your result back what was your immediate thought?

"Time to wait and see if Dan claims Vanillaized" because I only knew you were town from when you claimed that part.

[Dorian White]

Imperial and Royal Opinion Post

Refa Paladin:
They are both a blank page to us. Rafas opinion still puzzle us, he put both SB and Raikaria on his town list, given that our reads are opposed were we quite interested in a more specific explanation on that matter but it seems this wish will stay unfulfilled and he did nothing that stood out to us, maybe aside from the fact that his last content post give away that he had no idear what our SB case actually was but he wasn't the only one with this problem.
There is nothing we could say about Paladin right now.

ActionDan:
We have no idea why we still bother with this guy. We are quite sure that anyone else would have been lynched for sure, solely for the mere fact of not having a single scum read at the end of day one, yet we see his only real day one post called ?good? or even ?solid content?. :facepalm:
Nonetheless are we quite interested where he intent to go with his capricious claim today.

SB:
We think we made our-self clear. He's our main suspect so far and procrastinated doesn't change that. (we still have to read his leatest post, we'll come to it in good time.)

Raikaria:
We had quite a debate about him with Raitaki. Where Raitaki considered Raikarias push against SB as town intended and agreeable, were we kind of sceptic about the mud fight they had on page three. We still suspect SB far more than him, so we will trust in Raitakis judgment for now.

Dorian/Raitaki:
We are Austria and Raitaki is Hungry.

BT:
We already addressed him and we will wait till he addresses our concern before we say more.

This game feels like a 1. May demonstration, and we found us surrounded by different shades of red.
Now let's see what SB has to add.

[Mitsuki]

"I'm making another one because someone's at L-1" Votecount (2)

Dorian/Raitaki (3): Sky Paladin, Raikaria, SB (L-1!)
SB (1): Dorian/Raitaki

Not voting: everyone else
You have 59 hours left in this phase!

[Dorian White]

Oh, that's what I call a turn of events, putting me at L-1 where I had barely time to explain myself. If you want to play like that, fine.

YOU GOT 25 MIN. TO UNVOTE OR MY NEXT POST WILL BE A SELFHAMMER!

[Raikaria]

You're lucky I decided to check one last time. Far too soon to end D2. We have 59 hours; not 6.

#Unvote

[Raikaria]

To make it clear; I still don't like Raitaki's D1; and I still feel that by D1 interactions Dorian/Raitaki is the primary suspect. But it's FAR too soon to end D2; or even think about it.

And Dorian; it's far too soon to even talk about self-hammering. If someone actually quickhammered you at this point with 59 hours left they would get ripped apart like a rabbit thrown to a pack of wolves D3.  Even if SB put you at L-1 with 59 hours left there is absolutely no justification for threatening to selfhammer. Especially in such a small window. Threatening to selfhammer in that situation is horrendously Anti-Town but also not a scum move.

As I said; you; and the town; are lucky I'm still awake and decided on one last check.

[SB]

Raikaria, you were the one who put him at L-1 but the votals are just out of order...

Dorian's AtE is horrendous and makes me want to lynch it harder. I don't think Dorian would flip out that much at their buddy's vote, so maybe I need to look into SkyRefa again?

[Dorian White]

Now that this is cleared, can the rest wait till tomorrow, cause it's half past 12am and I'm too pissed off  to post anyway.

Also, who said that taking town as  hostage wouldn't work?^^

@Raikaria: the point is that I don't function well under pressure, so it was either I gat the time I need or we get over with it right now.

[Sky_Paladin]

Hi Dorian,

I want to know why your response to pressure was "I will self-hammer" instead of some other alternative, like claiming or defending yourself. 

You posted a small wall where you commented on all of the players yet neglected to find any of them scummy.  It looks like a giant appeal to emotion, empty content post. 

As such, I'm pretty happy to leave my vote where it is, because it seems that you are scum. 

[Raikaria]

Raikaria, you were the one who put him at L-1 but the votals are just out of order...

Dorian's AtE is horrendous and makes me want to lynch it harder. I don't think Dorian would flip out that much at their buddy's vote, so maybe I need to look into SkyRefa again?

I was not aware at the time that I was putting at L-1; and I also did not expect that sort of reaction.

Also; thinking about it overnight; I must echo what Sky_Paladin said. Your response to being put at L-1 was not to defend yourself; or to claim like a reasonable townie would; it was to threaten the town. It almost seems now like the action of a scum player who had given up. Indeed; a caught scum may self-hammer to end discussion early; that's of benefit to scum.

That and self-hammering with 59 hours left as town is blatantly not even playing to your wincon in any way; shape or form. Which means you should be scum; at least there is one possible justification for such an action.

So; you know what? I don't care if you don't work well under pressure. I'm putting you back at L-1 because your actions there were incredibly anti-town. Threatening to selfhammer in that form is an action that has 0 benefit at all to town.

Outright saying you were holding the town hostage dosen't help your case either.

#Vote: Raitaki/Dorian

[BT]

After recent events, I'm pretty confident in lynching Doritaki first. SB being scum vanillizer and claiming vanillizer/cop while cleaning Dan is a bit on the silly side - not impossible, but not likely. I don't think they're both scum pulling a gambit and I'm much more confident lynching the guy whose opinions I dislike and whose behavior fits scum in their position. It could be as easy as Doritaki/Sky - Sky hasn't done much apart from jumping on the wagon and Dorian hasn't claimed or done something radical that'd change the course of the day, instead offering to self-hammer without claiming. He's quick to badmouth me and Dan among others in a way that gives the impression he's just looking for bad things to say and not looking for scum, at least not rationally.

Dorian: If SB's scum, what say you about his claim and Dan's slot? The only thing you have to say about Dan in that regard is that the claim is interesting - but he's claimed insomnia-tor and vanilla-ized. Does not give the impression that you're focusing on the important bits. It might also be worth talking about why the Raitaki part of the slot didn't post more of your thoughts/arguments during the second half of D1.

As for my reads, right now everyone but SB and the lurkers are varying levels of null.

We had quite a debate about him[Raikaria] with Raitaki. Where Raitaki considered Raikarias push against SB as town intended and agreeable, were we kind of sceptic about the mud fight they had on page three. We still suspect SB far more than him, so we will trust in Raitakis judgment for now.

Interesting stuff. For someone who feels like it's May 1, more could have been done throughout the game aside from visiting the thread once in a while to remind everyone that SB is scum for an ED1 case taken out of proportion.

It would be nice if Dan shared his thoughts as likely confirmed town.