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Night of the Vampire Mafia
- This game is for 14 players, taking place in a vaguely Touhou-based setting, with the traditional day and night phases
- The so-called Night of the Vampire is the second night of the game, where traditionally, a human in the Human Village gets transformed into a vampire servant by the Scarlets in the presence of the full moon.
- On Night 1, there will be no normal NK by scum in preparation of the night that is to come. On Night 2, circumstances permitting, a non-scum player chosen by the scum will be transformed into a Mafia Goon, in place of the normal NK. This will be the only alignment change in the game. Furthermore, this act of scum recruitment will come before all other night actions on Night 2.
- On every night after Night 2, scum must conduct the NK whenever possible.
- Everyone will be notified in-topic on whether the scum recruitment action is successful or not.
- Days 1 and 2 will be 48 hours long. Subsequent days will be 72 hours long, including LyLO. All nights will be 24 hours long.
- If a majority is not reached by the end of the day, the person with the highest number of votes will be lynched. In the event of a tie, it will be settled by a coinflip.
- Voting for no lynch is allowed only from the third day onwards, and only once. On Days 1 and 2, town must lynch.
- Flips will be given in full by means of quoting the role part of the role PM, with a few exceptions caused by roles.
- Not all scum are necessarily vampires and not all townies are necessarily humans. Also, since this is very loosely-based on the Touhou Universe, any conceptions you might have on who is scum and not are strongly discouraged.
- Obvious etiquette, such as playing to win, not starting unnecessary fights, and not editing posts, should be observed.
- Each player must post once every 24 hours, lest they get prodded. Too much of this will result in a modkill up to my discretion.
- PM actions to all mods and co-mods (Me, Edible, and pesco) during appropriate times in the day.
- Have fun.
===
Still Alive:
1. Bardiche
2. Dormio
6. Hanged Hourai
8. UncertainKitten
13. huhwhat
14. K4U/Conqueror
Dead:
5. Lady Lamdadelta - Aya Shiremaru, Tengu Town Commuter Cop, lynched on D1
7. PX -Sakuya Izayoi, Town Night Hunter, Vampire, lynched on D2
9. Kiro - Kaguya Houraisan, of indeterminate role and alignment, killed on N2.
12. capt.h/Dorian - Eirin Yagakoro, human, Vanilla Town, modkilled mid-D3.
11. Chaore - Hong Meiling, human. Scum JoAT, lynched D3
10. Zakeri - Patchouli Knowledge, human Witch, killed on N3.
3. Schezo - Remilla Scarlet, vampire, Scum Recruiter/Godmother, lynched on D4
4. Shadoweh - Parsee Muzibachi, Vanilla Townie, killed on N4
Useful Links:
End of Day One (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660729.html#msg660729)
End of Day Two (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662936.html#msg662936)
End of Day Three (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg665266.html#msg665266)
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First?
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Fir-...
AHHHHH DON'T TAKE FIRST FROM MEEE!
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See, that's why you should have hydra'd with me, Shadoweh. We BOTH could have had first. But you just had to not.
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Boop /confirm Boop
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Firmdecon'd.
And by that I mean confirmed. In plain english. How you did not figure that out in the first place is -baffling-.
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Pantsu on head again?
Confirmed!
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Confirm every player !!
You know what you doing.
Confirming.
For great justice !!
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I-it's not like I'm confirming because you asked me to. I-I was going to do it anyway.
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Confirmed.
Now disaster take your course.
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Confirming that I'm alive and well, thank you.
...
Oh, I mean I'm here for the game.
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/conforming
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Confirmed.
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/confirm
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Woah~ Dancing in the shadow~
I kiss you.
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Woah~ Dancing in the shadow~
I kiss you.
TK~~~~~~~~
Get Chance and Luck!
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Headspin~
Knockin' On Heaven's Door.
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This topic was given birth as I laid to rest
After countless hours, I wander the dreamworld
Only to find my way back to the realm of the live
it is with this journey, still fresh in mind
That I confirm eight hours later.
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You took forever
##Vote: Zakeri
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OMGUS
##Vote PX
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##Vote: Dormio For blatant Chainsaw defense.
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WIFOM
##Unvote
##Vote Zakeri
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So uh, has the game begun already. How's about we wait for Affinity to confirm that.
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Misleading town.
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
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##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
Second on wagon, and unreadable voting pattern.
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##Vote Dormio for waffling. You don't need to change your jokevote to every single person who has posted, even when we can't be entirely sure the game has already started. Pick a target and stick with them, even if your votes are facetious. If you really do feel that every vote change of yours so far has been equivalent to something better coming along, you could at least explain why you're prioritizing the votes the way you currently are.
Quality ED1 case imo
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Wait. Hear me out on this. Affinity knows who the scum are, but he's not telling us.
##Unvote
##Vote: UK
:smug:
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Well if the game's already begun.
##Shoot: Shadoweh
##Vote: Dormio
Jokevote phase is now over. Discuss.
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Well if the game's already begun.
##Shoot: Shadoweh
##Vote: Dormio
Jokevote phase is now over. Discuss.
:V
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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Also, yes, that means when Affinity comes around, Shadoweh is dead.
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If the game really has started:
##Unvote
##Vote Bardiche
Fourth vote on me, seems opportunistic or something.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
What.
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Dormio: Is that a serious vote?
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##Vote Bardiche
I'd tell you how Affinity knows who the scum are but it's nice when scum claims Page One, so we'll start there.
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@Huh What: Yes, it is.
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CAN YOU AT LEAST WAIT FOR THE GAME TO START BEFORE YOU KILL ME GOD
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:toot: So how's vigging Shadoweh scum, UK?
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It's ok Shadoweh, you got shot by scum bard ^-^.
@Bard: Eh, well, the first concern is balance reasons. But, even disregarding those, town would never shoot Shadoweh in their first post. They'd shoot PX. Who is probably your scumbuddy, incidentally.
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##Unvote
##Vote: Bardiche
Because the last time you called your Meta and your target, you were scum.
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYY
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And that's PX bussing because he knows just how bad that looks~
Game solved, wake me up when Bard is lynched.
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No seriously, the game hasn't started, but uh, when it does I am town so please don't shoot me in the face? Seriously I would cry if you really did that to me before the confirmation phase was over!
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I promised before the game began that if I drew DayVig, I'd shoot Shadoweh. I'm a man who follows through on promises.
But no, break down how it is scummy. At this point no matter who I kill I have equal odds of hitting scum.
:toot: My meta is to end jokevote phase as soon as possible, I pulled the one move I knew would end jokevote phase IMMEDIATELY. How is that scummy?
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Because, yes, you have equal chance to shoot scum right now, but you also have the lowest chance to shoot scum right now.
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@ Dormio: Well then.
Out of the four people voting you, Bard was the one most obviously attacking you for the sake of getting discussion going (since he put you so much closer to a lynch and all). However, pretty much all the wagon hops onto you can be considered opportunistic as well - both PX and myself added to a fire by voting you for reasons that you were pretty much baiting with your votehopping, and PX for calling you second on the wagon while also starting a wagon on you notably made him scummy by his own logic. Despite this, you chose to attack the voter whose post could be attacked the most easily out of the three, showing lazy scumhunting on your part.
Perhaps the true opportunistic scum was you all along?
My serious ED1 case is now even more serious.
I'll comment on Bard when we can be sure he's, you know, not trolling.
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Oh, no, it's fine you shot D1. Your target just benefited scum more than town. Ergo, you are scum.
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Shadoweh hasn't even flipped yet, and you're already sure she's town? What makes you so sure she won't flip scum? Shadoweh as scum is harder to catch for me than, say, Durrmio, and like I said. Promised Shadoweh I'd kill her if I drew vig, not backing down on promises.
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@Huh What: Bardiche has claimed that he is being serious, ergo, I'll treat his current statements seriously.
I assumed it that, because the votes were made in RVS, they were null.
Also, worst way to go about being a dayvig, if he is a dayvig, ever.
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Well, we'll see how she flips. But, honestly, if she flips scum that doesn't absolve you. Easiest way to coast to endgame as a scum dayvig is to shoot a buddy. Your cred goes through the roof.
That said, I'd probably drop the case on you because that's more or less a conspiracy theory. But I'd make damn sure you didn't get an endgame clear, aw hell no.
If she's town you can die today ^-^.
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Actually...
Bard: You claim to be using your shot on Shadoweh as a ways to end the RVS and start discussion, but you yourself are not utilizing it that way, regardless of whether or not it actually killed her.
From the reactions to your supposed dayvig, who would you say is scum? It's odd that you're parking your vote on Dormio in the midst of all of this.
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I still think that taking a potshot would be the most anti-town way to be a dayvig.
Did I just get cut three times?
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@Dormio: Anti town doesn't mean scum. I use vigs the same way. His targetting was just awful ^-^.
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Okay fine, let's pretend the game started then.
Shadoweh isn't going to flip scum so don't get your hopes up. I like to think it doesn't take long for me to establish myself since when I was scum five people tried to lynch me immediately. I kind of thought you were kidding when you said that because it would be a dick move to do to someone. If you really did kill me I'd say you're way more likely to be Not Town then a Dayvig.
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Also:
##Vote UK
Your responses are pretty waffly. >:( Stop being Uncertain and make up your mind!
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You use vigs the same way, but his targetting was awful?
What targetting?
It's a shot fired before anyone has information about anything.
And, what? I really don't like your #46.
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Because, I dunno, I see it as you making an excuse for yourself to tunnel on Bardiche if Shadoweh flips town, which is the most likely outcome.
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@HW: Currently, I'd say PX and Durrmio are being most scummy right now. Durrmio for voting me for "opportunistic" (lol wut), and commenting on my actions without actually commenting on them! A grand "nothing" amounts to his opinion about the vig shot so far. Good with keeping my vote on him thus far, because claiming my action is anti-town while full-blow jokevote phasing isn't really a trait I like in my townies. I hate RVS. He does make a good observation on UK that I find agreeable.
PX is scummy for invoking meta, without motivating why that means I am scum now. Last time I said I'd kill UK if I were scum. I've been saying for a while I'd shoot Shadoweh regardless of alignment. How does this make me scum? It's jumping on what you expect to be an easy target due to a high profile move as opening. There's no motivation on WHY the action is scummy, or why meta demands I am scummy.
UK is being waffly and I don't get why she'd motivate shooting Shadoweh to be a pro-scum move, but she does tend to jump to conclusions without really motivating them much. Shadoweh is a good player as both scum and town, but her accuracy in making cases isn't so beneficial to town that I'd want to keep her alive - she's much harder to detect for me than someone like PX would be, for example.
As far as my current votes go, I'd lynch Durrmio first, and UK second. PX is all kinds of derrrrpppp, but I'm not sure yet whether he was being serious or not, given my action itself isn't the most believable action out there I'll permit some disbelief.
Until Affinity comes around to flip. :toot:
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Can't say much but I'm not taking this much seriously until Affinity comes around.
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Waffly? I dunno, I think I pretty clearly want Bard dead. I don't really see what's "waffly" about it?
What's hilarious is that Bard parroted that argument right after two people made it up using the power of bullshit ^-^.
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A grand nothing?
If you really did shoot Shadoweh I think you're using the davig (if that is what you really are) in the worst way possible, as well as ~*~bandwagons~*~, and ergo you are the scummiest.
And if Shadoweh does end up flipping, I want to ask how many shots/other limitations you have on the vig.
Also, whee cuts.
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@Dormio: Um, I don't really see that I need an excuse to tunnel on Bardiche. At all. He kind of writes his own grave himself.
So, wait. Bard is scum because he did something anti town...but I'm scum because I want to tunnel on scum Bard. I...what?
Also, awesome rolefishing bro. How about no? If Bard gets to L-1, sure, but right now? Yeah, not happening!
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@Bard: Fair enough.
I myself am not particularly fond of all the people throwing themselves at Bard's shot before Shadoweh has even flipped. With the exception of the moderator and Bardiche himself, nobody knows whether or not Shadoweh was actually shot until Affinity gets here and comments. Attacking Bard for how his shenanigans are scummy on paper is incredibly easy to do, and does not require the effort that needs to be put into actually making a case. Those who have no true opinions other than their vote on Bard are taking the easiest route possible while not providing any real contribution to the game, and I'd go as far to say they might as well not have any real "vote" at all because they're essentially using Bard as a tool to coast by until Affinity returns with our results.
Dormio seems to be the scummiest example so far, to the point where he's even keeping his vote down on Bard while attacking UK with a more valid case. I'm slowly finding myself more and more satisfied with my vote on him.
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Well, if he really did shoot Shadoweh, I don't think he's a town aligned vigilante. :/
Hence, I'd like to see if Shadoweh really does flip or not.
I dunno, everything I'm thinking of right now depends on whether or not Shadoweh flips.
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I think I could have worded myself better.
People who have cases on Bardiche that would suddenly be invalidated if his vig shot turned out to be a gambit are coasting and might as well not have any true case at all. It'd be fine if they were voting him over a more solid argument that can't later be instantly disproven by anything other than an informative role (ie, what I pointed out about him earlier before he responded), but as far as I'm aware nobody is doing that.
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@HW: Oh, I have opinions outside of Bard. I just don't see fit to divulge them yet. This entire process is a whole bunch of beautiful reactions to mine. Also, Dormio has a case on me? I must have missed it in all the failure to actually cite things that happened in this game.
I see no need to pursue whether Bard's shot was a gambit or not at this time, HW. I don't appreciate you bringing that possibility up.
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@Dormio: If Shadoweh fails to flip, then I'd no longer have an excuse to tunnel on Bard, right? So I'm still missing how my professed desire to see Bard die is scummy? Maybe you could try explaining again?
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In fact, I'll go so far to take a page from Shadoweh in JJBA, who took her page from Pesco in GDC.
UK, Dormio, PX.
Bardiche has been removed from the game. His body and flip were never found, and the mod has chosen that he will not tell us whether or not Shadoweh died and flipped for another 24 hours. In this hypothetical scenario, who would you switch your vote to?
Cut by UK. I apologize for being the one to state the obvious. I think that not letting people coast is more important than potentially causing people to think Bardiche's shot is a gambit when we've already gotten a fair amount of reactions from it.
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<_< Are you seriously trying to make the case that even if you oopsed and I 'happen' to be town I'm a good kill? That's insulting. My cases aren't accurate enough? Randomly shooting someone who's good at being town before you have any idea of their alignment is a pro-scum move because it means you shot a nightkill that could have been you, instead of a possible mislynch. I can't believe I'm having this kind of argument. I'm really insulted you would pretend this has any logic besides lulz kill Shadoweh. That's why I immediately doubt your alignment.
I'm not joking that UK sounds weird either, that was a quick jump from Scum!Bard to eh wait until Shadoweh's town flip. LET ME SAVE YOU ALL SOME TIME. SHADOWEH IS TOWN. DISCUSS.
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@Dormio: If Shadoweh fails to flip, then I'd no longer have an excuse to tunnel on Bard, right? So I'm still missing how my professed desire to see Bard die is scummy? Maybe you could try explaining again?
Words how do they work?
#46 looks strikes me as you trying to take a really safe route through this mess.
And scum like to play it safe, no?
@Huh What: The only problem with that is you're removing the results of most of what's happened so far in this game.
PX has even claimed that he's not taking anything seriously until Affinity shows up to say that the confirmation phase is over.
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This is SRS MAFIER, I therefore demand our lurkers come in and comment on stuff.
PX! Why does meta demand I am scum for following through on a promise? Jumping on an easy target is easy, but I want serious opinions here, so get in and motivate yourself. If your vote was a jest, move it somewhere more serious, or elucidate its progression to serious vote.
Dormio, how does Shadoweh's flip influence your read on UK?
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PX has even claimed that he's not taking anything seriously until Affinity shows up to say that the confirmation phase is over.
That's his problem, since he shouldn't even be doing that.
Guys, it doesn't matter whether or not the confirmation phase is over. If it isn't, then when Affinity officially ends it we'll just place our votes back based on what has already transpired. It's not like we're being sent new role PMs as soon as Affinity returns or anything.
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If Shadoweh does die, I'd be surprised. Like, blown out of the water surprised.
I see no need to pursue whether Bard's shot was a gambit or not at this time, HW. I don't appreciate you bringing that possibility up.
Translation: "I see no need to not having my vote being automatically justified. I don't appreciate you bringing in possible truths that go against my voting reason."
##Unvote
##Vote: UncertainKitten
Also, If you claim to have opinions on other people besides bardiche, you should post them, rather than just pretending to have them so you can backpedal later.
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You do realize the game hasn't started yet, right?
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Well, I never unvoted Bard, now did I Shadoweh? Nor did I say you flipping scum would make Bard town. In fact, I said that it would not really fix anything. I just said I would drop him today since I would literally have nothing I could reasonably expect him to be lynched on. But I'd catch him later in the game, when he's talked a lot, done more things that help scum.
Now, Bard has been removed from the game? Mm, tough call. For now, Dormio. I dislike the...opportunism he's engaging in. People start looking at me funny, and he's right there. Shadoweh DID say something "weird" was about me before he did, correct? He was also quick to jump on Bard. I expect if another viable wagon that isn't him crops up, he'll be all over that shit too. This is not mutually exclusive with Bard scum, since the Bard wagon was just becoming a thing when Dormio jumped on (IIRC he was the second vote.) I don't think he expected Bard's lynch to be a thing that will happen.
Cut by Bard bringing up something I agree with. PX deciding not to take this seriously reflects AWFULLY on him. To the point that Bard scum is less certain. I feel Dormio is weirder and, yes, I'm giving PX a slight derp pass. But I have my eye on him.
HW is also correct headed.
Zak is also hilarious. You're kind of bad at figuring out town UK, aren't you? Let's try this
Bard's vig shot being a gambit does not really change much.
I have different reasons for not encouraging considering Bard's shot a gambit
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@Edible: I dunno. We've started voting and such before the mod openly started the game before.
If we're absolutely not supposed to be playing without word from the mod, you could always close the topic until he arrives.
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@Bardiche: If Shadoweh does flip, and she shows up as town, I'm inclined to believe that both you and UK aren't town aligned.
Is she flips as scum, then my brain will be full of fuck and I'll go back to studying for a while.
@Huh What: It's kind of a big deal though.
Cut by Bledibleh.
Well, that's interesting.
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EBWOP: I should state that my reads are very subject to change, and are biased towards people who have actually, yanno, posted.
@Dormio: Oh? This is interesting. Please, tell me how I'd be scum with Bard if Shadoweh flips town? Though wait for me to get popcorn, this oughtta be good.
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Bardiche shoots a townie, you bus him for super credit, then you and your new scum buddy on N2 ride along on the magical town cred to victory~
Or something like that, anyway.
Apparently Bardiche's shot is fake, which is interesting, and results in me really not liking you.
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Equally interested in that explanation, Dormio.
Edible, just subtract however long we discuss this from day start. Barring things happening at D1 start, or a Night 0 existing, I don't think it'd change much.
Which is why I want the lurkers (I know Chaore has read this!) to unlurk and treat this game as if it has already begun and start coming in with observations and opinions. No reason to abstain from contributing immediately.
Note that Edible never received a list of who has what role so he can't flip anything.
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I think Dormio is scum with Bardiche, and that his plan is to have Bardiche shoot a townie, bus him for super credit, then he and your his scum buddy on N2 ride along on the magical town cred to victory~
(true case, 100% serious)
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Also if my shot is fake how does this incriminate UK?
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That's nice. First, what's confirmed Bard's shot as fake?
Second, you do realize that what you are proposing is the same thing I'm proposing if Shadoweh flips scum, right? i.e. YOU CAN'T ACTUALLY USE IT AS A CASE BECAUSE IT'S A CONSPIRACY THEORY THAT'S RATHER STUPID!
Now, both Bard and I would have the gall to do something like that, but that said, it's a dumb move. If Bard shot a scumbuddy, yes, it would have a big tactical advantage for town cred, but it doesn't last as long as you think it does, and it's not worth losing a member of your team in most cases. (If Bard had shot someone with less skill, this'd be slightly more likely, though honestly, I'd probably not have found shooting someone with less skill that scummy). Now then, you're proposing that I *bus* a scumbuddy, in a situation where meta dictates we accept Bard as ridiculous town. And that I get him lynched, and float on the town cred. That doesn't work either, for much the same reasons Bard shooting Shadoweh as a scum buddy would be an awful reason to lynch. Bussing doesn't even lend as much town cred as a vig shot.
tl;dr: Clarifying my earlier stance, I would not be able to lynch Bard on conspiracy theories if Shadoweh flipped scum. I'd have to look at this posting to find the scumminess. Following from this, your "case" on BardxUK has the same flaws.
So, as I thought, not worth my time.
...Bard, quit being reasonable! You're supposed to be my easy D1 scum lynch! How am I supposed to bus you if you keep sounding townie!?
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All that said, I'm beginning to get more of a THAT'S OUR DURRMIO vibe from Dormio, as opposed to scum intent. So, I'd probably vote PX if I weren't voting Bard.
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It being a gambit actually does change things. It means what Bardiche has been doing was creating a situation that forces people to react. What this means is that Bardiche is actually either Town or Scum, and this directly relates to Shadoweh's flip. The more people that post before Affinity comes, and decides which side they believe more likely, the better, but for now I believe I land on the side of Bardiche being town, and I believe that scum's first impulse would be to start a wagon on Bardiche. I have my reasons for believing this is true, but we won't know until.
I disagree with the sentiment that Bardiche and UK are the same alignment.
I do agree that PX's refusal to respond until Affinity goes against what I said above, and I realize he's being seriously anti-town
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In case what I was getting at wasn't clear enough already, I'd like to point out that even though Dormio's "theory" about Bard shooting a townie and have his buddy bus him could be applied to any one of Dormio, PX and UK to make them look like Bard's buddy. Only Dormio chose to apply it to the one who is probably the towniest of the three.
Seriously. <_<
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It mostly boils down to what I think of UK's #46.
It reeks of confirmation bias to me.
Oh dear god, how many times must you all cut me?
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UK: Really? I'm reading it as Scum Durmio pushing bad scum-motivated cases that link people together, like he did in BGoM. Only he did that with his buddies there, which I kind of doubt is the case in this game. <_<
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@Zak: It doesn't change how I feel about Bard, per se. I suppose it would change the facts I use to indict him. But, I did say it wouldn't change "much"
@HW: Well, part of my theoretical Dormio scum before was under the assumption Dormio does *not* expect Bard to get lynched.
@HW: It seems too utterly stupid. Perhaps I'm being blinded by derp?
@Dormio: Why is confirmation bias scummy?
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@UK: Because only scum know who's scum and who isn't scum?
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@Dormio: So townies never tunnel on people they are sure are scum? What scum intent is there in me making sure all outcomes result in Bard scum? You're not being very clear.
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WORDS ARE HARD LET ME STUDY MY BIOTECHNOLOGY AND BIOMOLECULAR SCIENCES IN PEACE.
What scum intent is there in me making sure all outcomes result in Bard scum? You're not being very clear.
Uh, you mean outside of setting someone up so that they look like scum, no matter what the outcome?
Because I'm pretty sure that by itself is pretty bad.
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As for the tunnelling thing, I dunno, it feels to me like you're playing it far too safe.
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Playing it safe? I'm not sure I understand. Tunneling always catches fire. Secondly, I suppose I should have amended what I said. If Bard is scum with me, what scum intent is there in making sure all outcomes make him scum?
I'm pretty sure you have nothing.
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Bussing to victory?
Insanity?
One or more of the above would be my guess.
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That usually means that you're wrong, Dormio.
Anyway, let me collate what you've told me as best I can. Please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. My 46 reeks of confirmation bias because Bard is scum with me. I am playing it safe in some way. I am bussing who would hypothetically be my only scum partner until N2. However, I'm still scummy if Bard isn't scum because my 46 is setting someone up as scum no matter what.
Um...did I miss anything?
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EBWOP: Ah, dammit, I misread. I thought you said "I don't know, one of those", not what you actually said. Still, having to resort to "insanity" as a reason generally implies something is wrong.
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#46 reeks of confirmation bias because you give me the vibe that you know that Shadoweh is not scum.
If Bardiche shot Shadoweh who was town, I think you're both insane and scum.
If Bardiche shot Shadoweh who was scum, I'm insane and need to rethink everything.
If Bardiche is gambit-ing, I think you're scum.
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All right, so, in the first case you freely admit that you are proposing a conspiracy theory. In the second case, you're admitting you're lost. In the third case...???
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In the third case, I think you were trying to set up a lynch on town(?)Bardiche and are scummy for it.
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[20:51] <Kitten4u> Why are you guys posting when A) the mod hasn't started the game yet and B) the co-mod said there was a reason he couldn't start the game yet?
[20:52] <Kitten4u> I guess I should be posting this in the thread itself
It seems pretty uncool to me. If the mods consider it kosher then I apologize for lurking like this, but I have no idea what made you guys think this was okay.
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Explain how the third case doesn't apply to you?
@K4U: I literally have no idea what is going on but I'm being attacked so I should probably defend myself sooooo...
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Explain how it does?
And I'm not quite sure what's happening right now in regards to the game, but stuff is happening so why not?
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You voted Bard before I did. You're still voting Bard, IIRC. By 46, I had not weighed in on whether Bard was scum or not in case of gambit.
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I haven't unvoted Bardiche because I thought Bledibleh's statement meant that all votes so far are invalid, ergo, no vote at all.
And with the #46, rather than Bardiche, I get vibes telling me that you know that Shadoweh is town. Which nobody, bar any scum and Shadoweh herself should know.
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I'm pretty sure I tend to assume people are town unless I'm calling them scum. Glad we cleared this up because now I know you're silly. I see no need to continue this conversation unless you have something new to bring to the table.
Also, I have more reasons to believe Shadoweh is town at the moment.
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What Kitten4u said. Seriously I would love to post it up and attack people since I'm apparently already dead, but instead I'm going to go cook myself something nice. Bard isn't even acknowledging I exist anymore, so I highly doubt he's lying. Having thought about it, my only reason for thinking he's not town for doing this is my alignment pm. He could just be a fucking jerk.
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If you think you're going to die, why not post up your thoughts before it happens?
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Because the game hasn't started yet and it's rude. You've already gotten my immediate thoughts about what's going on.
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Isn't somebody shooting(?) you in the confirmation stage also rude?
Also, you haven't said anything about UK or I, aside from mentioning that UK seems weird in #51 and #65.
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Rude isn't the word I would use to describe it.
I'm not going to comment further beyond that I hold to my amazing ED1 read of scum UK. If Affinity starts the game and he didn't count the action, ergo Shadoweh still being alive, I'll post more then.
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I look forward to this case. We can have another wall of text war where you're wrong ^-^.
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Votecount:
Hahaha just kidding, the game still hasn't started yet.
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Edible: Are we still allowed to post game relevant stuff?
Probably best to get an official clarification on this.
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Even if it is rude to start the game before the Mod arrives, I still think it's more pro-town to get your reaction to at the very least Bardiche's vig in before Affinity shows up.
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You're saying that like I didn't post anything in response to it. -.- If I'm going to die you could at least READ WHAT I'VE ALREADY SAID first. If voting someone in return for a vote is Oh My God You Suck, my response right now was Oh My God You Shot Me.
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That was more aimed at Kitten4u, who blantently said "No comment until Affinity says it's okay". Of course, the more you add, the better, but You're fine.
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The game hasn't started because I don't have the authority to do so, as the game may have any number of things I am not aware of that must happen mod-wise before it can actually start. Nowhere in the rules did Affinity say "the game will start as soon as all players have confirmed," and everyone here should have noticed when there was no official confirmation of such and two notices from a mod saying the game hadn't started. Why certain people are acting as if the game has started is completely beyond me.
Affinity is, of course, more than welcome to retroactively start it. But you'll need to wait for him.
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God, I make a rushed post, become busy, and what the hell happens.
UK: You start off with post 32, claiming that Bard is scum. And then calling the scum team with crap reasoning.
At this point, Post 37, I'm still assuming everything is a joke.
Here's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659043.html#msg659043) your reasoning to why you're voting Bard. Post 46 is you backtracking your previous statement that Bard is definite scum, to Scum if Shadoweh flips scum, but won't pursue until later, and instant scum if she flips Town. It looks like you're saying that you are sure he's scum, but you feel like waiting for him to dig a grave. Town wouldn't wait for a better reason to push a case. That's opportunistic, and scum would do that.
Post 71 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659100.html#msg659100), you say "Cut by Bard bringing up something I agree with. PX deciding not to take this seriously reflects AWFULLY on him. To the point that Bard scum is less certain. I feel Dormio is weirder and, yes, I'm giving PX a slight derp pass. But I have my eye on him."
Um... Bard never said that?
PX! Why does meta demand I am scum for following through on a promise? Jumping on an easy target is easy, but I want serious opinions here, so get in and motivate yourself. If your vote was a jest, move it somewhere more serious, or elucidate its progression to serious vote.
You're adding unsaid words to Bard so that when I flip Town, you can throw it towards Bard even though he never said it.
Bard: Reacted pretty calmly and rationally to the scum accusations and votes. If he is a vig? Not really how I would use a vig shot, but his explanation is understandable. Null, leading towards town
Dormio: ...I'm getting Deja Vu. Seriously. I think I did this in JK9 Mafia.... Thus, I'm giving him a Durrmio on this. Except why he's still voting Bard. You seem to have a better case on UK, so please enlighten us why you think a vig shooting on D1 is extremely anti-town enough to warrant a vote over everyone else.
EDIT: Holy WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY^15, cut 15 times. Reading more.
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Crap, I forgot
##Unvote
##Vote: UK
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Oooooooooor, maybe I fused what Dormio and Bard were saying? Bard was kind of poking at the fact not giving opinions was awful, but Dormio said it more clearly.
I'm not backtracking in 46. I'm saying that if Shadoweh flips scum, any case I made on Bard would be a conspiracy theory. I've explained this several times. Please learn to read. And town wouldn't waste it's energy pushing something that won't work, or even logically work. You're basically playing gotcha games and, once again, have nothing on me.
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Shadoweh flips MODKILLED
Bard flips MODKILLED
UK flips MODKILLED
Dormio flips MODKILLED
HW flips MODKILLED
PX flips MODKILLED
Zakeri flips MODKILLED
Now let's just wait for Affinity to open the game before people die for real. I don't have the full alignment/role distribution confirmed. I can't exactly open the game either.
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PX has even claimed that he's not taking anything seriously until Affinity shows up to say that the confirmation phase is over.
Try again.
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Well call me oldfashioned but I think that's every thing relevant for a game is supposed happened in said game, and since the mods said repeatedly that the game didn't even started yet, am I unable to see anything of relevance so far.
The only thing that could be seen as relevant is the supposed vig shoot but only if Shadoweh indeed flips at the begin of the game. I'm not sure about the actual probability but I think that an arbitrary chosen vig shoot at this time, cause that's what it is form me point of view, will most likely hit town and therefore disadvantage town. Needless to say that I consider such an approach as utterly brain bleeding stupid and I can't even speculate about any reason to do something like this. To be honest I don't even want to know why he did it, if he did it at all. Conclusion/Diagnose: batshit crazy
##Morphine: Bardiche
That's all I'm able and willing to say at the moment. Guten Tag!
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Day One
Traditionally, ever since the Scarlet Devil Mansion appeared suddenly out of red mist one day, the Human Village has been suffering periodically on nights leading up to a red full moon, with many ending up wounded and dead. Rumors say that the Scarlets turn a villager into one of their kind on the night of such a full moon through occult ceremony, and this time, it seems no different. With a council of 14 people formed up during a lull in the vampire attacks, the Village aims to catch the Scarlets and their servants disguised among them, and bring them to justice, eerily aware of the fact that they might have to face off with one of their own very very soon...
===
Game officially starts now. All votes before this post have been rendered void, and you can begin making relevant votes from this post onwards. Reason I did not want to start the game was because I wanted to make some clarifications to the rules on the first page (which have been done). Not too happy with PX voting someone while the topic clearly said 'Confirmation Phase', but I suppose the confusion is understandable, due to me being away for such a long time...
Day One still lasts for 48 hours, and will end on19th June,1400 hrs GMT +0.
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##Shoot: Shadoweh
So back to this...
##Vote: Dormio
... and this.
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PX...that says exactly what I said. So, why don't you try again?
All right, so that's how Bard will open.
If I had time now, I'd reread the game, but I desperately need to get work done. Right now I want PX dead, but I think that's at least 50% because he can't read and his condescending attitude about being unable to read is irritating me. The other 50% would be his insistence on posting to say that he wasn't going to react, which is kind of scummy.
This may change pending reread. Why yes, there is a suspicious lack of Bard in my needs to die list ^-^.
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Too much noise from all those earlier pages. People trying too hard to accuse the other posters when by my count, 7 people never posted in psuedo pregame.
How much we wanna bet Hourai got the scum role he's always wanted? Don't leave us hanging, fess up doll!
##Vote Hanged Hourai
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Not voting until Affinity comes around.
Still though, this UK wagon is laughable. "SHE'S SCUM BECAUSE SHE KNEW SHADOWEH WAS TOWN~"
1) If Shadoweh actually dies, it's almost guaranteed she's town. She was shot without making a single content post. It wasn't based on reads.
2) You'll notice that UK left room open for Shadoweh to be scum, buy still advocates Bard's death if Shadoweh dies. I agree with this. Shadoweh dies, regardless of alignment, Bard is lynched.
So no, UK isn't getting lynched today. Her reaction to the shot was pure 100% town.
However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .
If the shot turns out to be fake, I want to lynch Shadoweh. If Shadowehis scum, then so is Bard (due to distancing and Shadoweh's real non-reaction)
Shot Real: Bard dies.
Shot Fake: Shadoweh dies.
Edit: Vote: Bard
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Kiro! Is there a specific reason you?re voting Hourai? It comes off as a jokevote at this stage, and honestly it's no longer jokevote phase because we're skipping that this game.
Lambdadelta, why is Shadoweh's reaction scummy? What changed between the first line and the last line that you want to vote, and how does Shadoweh scum correlate to Bardiche scum, given the "distancing" would be an act of Shadoweh's to implicate me? I'm not sure I follow this line of reasoning. Your post narrows everything immediately to Shadoweh or me for a lynch target, ignoring flips and other people; reason out why a scum flip implicates scumBard, how a town flip implicates scumBard and how no flip implicates scumShadoweh.
No more buzzwords, time to back up your opinion, starting immediately. What about Shadoweh's reaction implies she thinks she won't die, and how is this scummy?
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However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .
I'm going to be really blunt with you again. Your ALMOST statements are still crap. If you really can't tell how utterly pissed off I was writing those posts then there's something wrong with you. UK's response was not 100% town, however. It's hard to make a judgement on who reacted the scummiest when half the game didn't post, possibly because it hadn't started yet. I cannot be bothered to start a fight that's going to be interupted by my untimely demise so you all can have fun with that.
Bard, since it didn't work the first time, you could at least have looked at what I posted before deciding it was still the right play. Maybe even shot one of the people that reacted, in your opinion, scummily.
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Ugh, should not be posting since ~*~work~*~ but I should address this. LLD, I get where you're coming from, but for the same reason I rebuffed Dormio, your arguments cannot be used. You are proposing that Bard shot his scumbuddy, *twice* now, to coast to endgame. You are further proposing that he'd do it again after drawing fire the first time, which means it's not worth endgame cred. As Shadoweh said, Bard could easily have reassessed his shot and looked townier for it. Is his shot utterfuckingly pants on head dicktarded still? Yes. Is it scummy? Not conclusive yet. In fact, I'd go as far as saying it's a null tell and will remain such due to circumstances.
Bard might be scum, but his shot won't be what indicts him.
Also, even if Shadoweh is scum, how would her reaction show her to have "known she wasn't going to die"? Please cite this for me, it could be important. The fake shot reasoning isn't as far fetched, though still dangerous and I don't think strong enough to determine the lynch.
I have other thoughts but, again, work.
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Bard: It is a jokevote. I'm not ignoring what happened in Page 2-5 though, rather, just treating it as incomplete. Most of it is predicated on whether Bard's shot is real or not so it's a lot of reactions that can crumble away because some people seemed to earnestly post as if it were real. And even with that, you all tunneled onto each other because you had no choice, almost half of us willingly did not post during all of that. Reaction fishing on just half the player base feels weird, it gives Scum fodder for mislynch cases even if most or all of the people arguing in the beginning are Town.
I guess if there's one thing that struck out the most to me, is Huh What's loaded scenario that let say Bard was modkilled and removed from the game in #64. Where is there any evidence that could happen or even be remotely considered? And UK decided to answer it straight up in #71 and of course, she's limited to considering only people who have currently posted without really questioning why HW would ask something like that. Independently, both the questioner and the responder gave me weird vibes.
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@Kiro: I felt the intent was townie in asking, because it was phrased in such a way to force people out of tunneling on Bard. I wanted it answered as well, and I figured the best way to GET it answered was to answer it myself. I don't think it was being proposed as "this is going to happen", it was more "This is hypothetical, please answer so we know your not Bard opinions"
And yes, no longer working, though will be running DnD shortly.
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The scenario was coined by Shadoweh to ask people to not tunnel on one person and instead look at the situation surrounding them, Kiro.
Your words and actions don't match up. You say you're not ignoring what happened in the pre-game, but at the same time you're blatantly posting a jokevote which serves absolutely nothing, despite me repeating my action to ensure its success this time around. Now, however, you point out something that is weird, which happened only after prodding. Why not open the game with that observation? Why did you decide a meaningless jokevote was better than responding to the situation at hand?
##Unvote
##Vote: Kiro
While Dormio's actions are certainly not town-minded, I can't in good faith vote it over your baffling actions, Kiro. Admittance of ignoring whatever's happened so you can jokevote is one thing that raises a frown, as jokevote phase doesn't serve town much when there's something very real to work with... Your secondary action of observing a "weirdness" would be fine, except you lend no opinions to the observation besides "weird". Is weird "scummy"?
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Kiro, I disagree with the first part of your post. It doesn't really matter if the shot is real or not. (I'm not getting my hopes up.) The immediate reactions are still valid, especially if the reactions were genuine. I agree that the rest of the group needs to post first but pure probability says at least one scum should have posted during all of that.
*cough*Istolethatscenariofromsomeoneelse*cough*
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Okay, NOW You Can Have A Votecount
Hanged Hourai (1) - Kiro
Bardiche (1) - Lady Lambdadelta
Kiro (1) - Bardiche
Not voting - Everyone else
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... and the gig's up. No, ##Shoot doesn't do anything. I'm not such a jackass I'd shoot someone out of the gates, anyway, Shadoweh.
Now that we've cleared up that ~*magical vig shot*~, Shadoweh, who do you think are scum? Kiro, in light of this news, how does this change your reads on people?
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...You're still a jerk. :<
I'll read later when I'm calmed down. I'm still mad at you!
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##Vote Dormio
Still reading him as scum pushing bad cases rather than derp. I don't really expect this to change. He still needs to answer my question as well. PX indirectly answered it when he switched his vote.
This isn't to say I'm pleased with PX, though. His UK case... doesn't really show me why UK is scum. I've read it, but I really can't see why her actions would be worth a vote at this point, even from what he pointed out. The entire case basically seems overly nitpicky to me, and nitpicking typically provides for weak cases that are not worth much at all. Given that PX gave up his Bardiche case in the same post, I don't think he has provided any believably decent content at this point. I would not mind hanging him if he fails to actually give a good explanation of why UK actually deserves to be lynched more than anybody else for the actions of hers that PX pointed out.
In other news, I'm not sure why Kiro is receiving ire suddenly. His reasons for considering the pre-game null don't really come off as far-fetched to me even though I disagree with him, and I don't actually see scum intent in his choice to wait for a larger pool of analyzable participants before voting. It's one of those "What would scum have to gain from doing this?" things, basically, and I'm taking it as a null tell. I guess that means that replacing in for Omba last game rubbed off on me. I do think he should at least be courteous and attempt to provide a serious vote while we wait for more of the playerbase to post rather than just leaving a jokevote down, however, since he has been prodded by other players for not doing so. It's not like it's entirely impossible that scum posted before the end of the confirmation phase, anyway.
I don't really have anything to say in response to Kiro's point about my hypothetical scenario because UK and Bard already answered that (correctly).
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Well, judging by Bard's latest vote on me, I'll say his shot was a gambit without having to wait for a votecount. Guess I'll cut to the chase which is what I would have done whenever we got mod confirmation that Shadoweh wasn't vigged. Cut by new posts: And yes, that's indeed how it went.
I think UK is most likely to be scum out of the early posters.
UK's thing in #46 is a bit weird. Starts off saying a Scum dayvig could just coast to victory by shooting a buddy. Not going to happen this game. Even if he were Scum, the Night 2 mechanic if successful turns everyone back to neutral reads. Bard could also very well be a Town vig doing whatever he wants, but converted by Day 3. Yet you give him the guilty treatment at the start. Your shortsightedness in this statement surprised me. It highlights an overeagerness to pursue Bard that I really didn't like which you affirm with your red statement in #71. What about now? Also, who you going to vote for now? You missed voting for PX if that was your intent to start the day.
I don't really care if Huh What borrowed a made up scenario someone else made copied from someone else. It's still a weird way to ask and HW copying it makes it seem like a loaded way of saying, "who would you vote for besides Bard?" Feels like a possible "trying too hard to be Townie" sort of a thing. And like I said, UK answered it straight up. She decided to relent right after #62 where she addressed HW and adamantly refused to provide opinions on those not named Bard. UK's giving and taking a little here and it's more of her weird Day 1 play that makes her hard to read as she shifts her reads. Looking at it, she relented because it looks like HW #64, Shadoweh #65 and Zakeri #69 all voiced suspicion at her. And she calls HW level-headed at that point in #71 but derides Zakeri for what I'm reading as something similar to what HW said. A bit of a double standard perhaps.
All of a sudden, I just realized a bunch of people are promoting scumpairs in this early part of the game. UK, Dormio #73, HW #77. WHY?!?!?! Damnit, stick to individual scum reads. You're all doing it wrong.
I'm going to think about HW's latest post and case a little more while at lunch.
##Unvote Hanged Hourai
##Vote UncertainKitten
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I've seen it happen before, Kiro. That said, I didn't consider the Night 2 mechanic, which is absolutely true. I really don't see how anything else is scummy. You say "weird" a lot. You don't say where scum intent comes into the picture. Honestly, that makes me feel uneasy about you. Usually your cases are fairly solid and say why someone is SCUM, not that they're weird. I'll admit the Hourai vote bugged me as well, but more in the sense it was distracting from potentially good information, and I feel if there is scum in the active posters before the game started, that move was specifically to defend them. I can't say for certain that's scummy. I can say for certain your case on me is awful, and possibly scum motivated.
I'll place a vote once I've reread, which will be sometime today, possibly this evening.
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UK: Well, let's go back to why you wanted Bard lynched. The only reasoning I see from you is your #43: "Oh, no, it's fine you shot D1. Your target just benefited scum more than town. Ergo, you are scum." Please tell me if that's a troll or serious answer.
Your stance essentially clarifies to a "Bard can still be Scum, but I won't be accusing him solely because of a possible vig gambit." I can read that as a bit of waffling on Bard. What I never really see from you is an explanation on how Bard could be Townie. So it's another straight tunnel by you at the time over a point bordering on paranoia (that a Scum Dayvig would coast). That's where I'm getting the Scum vibe from, that you're too eager to call Bard scum when he could be a Townie vig or a Townie gambiter. And answer for me how Huh What was being level-headed in #64 while Zak was being hilarious in #69.
I call it weird because I can still see you as Townie doing all this. Never seems to change. Still, it's good enough for a Day 1 case for me. I'm not seeing a case on PX as strong as you might be, Dormio's responses have felt Townie enough for me to not pursue now and Bard and Shadoweh have been defined mostly by the gambit which gets me nowhere right now.
Afternoon crunch right now. Mild suspicion on HW remains for me but I'll have to wait till evening to think about it more.
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HW #77
... was sarcastic. I was basically trying to show Dormio how his scenario worked with just about everybody who was voting Bard at that point.
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... was sarcastic. I was basically trying to show Dormio how his scenario worked with just about everybody who was voting Bard at that point.
I take a hammer and break my sarcasm recognition meter every time I play Mafia. My eyes tend to only parse /sarcasm at this point. Next thing I know, UK is going to tell me her #43 was sarcasm as well.
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Still feeling blah, but I feel like I should have a vote down at this point.
##Vote: huh what
huh whatty, what's your opinion on Bard's stunt? You seem quite happy to attack everyone for reacting to it without recognizing it yourself. That's really weird coming from you, Mr. Troll Hater. It's also weird that you'd use people voting him for his actions as saying they're coasting, since literally nothing else had happened yet. What else would they be looking at exactly?
I don't know how to explain why UK's responses give me a bad feeling. It's like a lack of caring, if she really believes I'm town I'd think she'd be more upset at me dying like that instead of forgiving Bard so fast. Your posts have a very 'oh well' vibe to them that I dislike.
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What the hell is this Pescar?
I'm out to kill contractors, not make more of them!
Also, freaking hell, 2AM (Well, 1:50 AM) day starts. :/
Try again.
Can't say much but I'm not taking this much seriously until Affinity comes around.
Uh huh.
Hey, Shadoweh, what happened to your UK case that was coming if you weren't dead?
I'm not going to comment further beyond that I hold to my amazing ED1 read of scum UK. If Affinity starts the game and he didn't count the action, ergo Shadoweh still being alive, I'll post more then.
You know, the amazing ED1 read of scum UK.
Speaking of which, I'm still of the opinion that UK is more likely to be scum than not.
In #43, care to explain how it benefits scum more than town?
As well, I still don't like your #46.
@Huh What: What's the question?
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@ Shadoweh: To be frank, there was nothing for me to react to from my point of view. It was fairly obvious he was gambitting and I don't think I could have given a proper analysis of his action in good conscience. I believe my words made it fairly evident that I thought his action was not worth attacking him over, however.
It's pretty obvious that I only expected people to stop coasting after some more content had popped out. At the time I nudged the people voting to give some opinions on players other than Bardiche, there had been a whole 31 posts since the start of Bard's gambit, and I would estimate that at least half of these were serious. There was already a fair amount of content to analyze outside of the vig shot, so the accusations that I attacked people for coasting on the Bardiche case when "literally nothing else had happened yet" are incorrect.
I am not really sure what you are voting me because of, actually. It looks like you're trying to catch me on hypocrisy, only the existance of said hypocrisy is debatable and I am not sure why you would even consider it scummy hypocrisy in the first place. The only other substance to your case is built up on a misrep. This irks me in the same manner that PX's case on UK does.
@ Dormio: See #64 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086). As far as I'm aware, all you did was sidestep the question by implying it was pointless in #66. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659092.html#msg659092)
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Explained 43 already. Shadoweh is a more capable player than most of you. There are better D1 no info vigs. Killing Shadoweh was at the least anti town, and DOES benefit scum more than, say, killing PX.
You still haven't reasonably explained why I'm scum. Also, Kiro's elucidation does not fill me with good feelings about him.
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@Huh What: Hardly anybody was talking at that point though. And that was kind of the basis for every argument at that point in time.
@UK: Like I said, you gave me the vibe that you knew that Shadoweh was town with far too much certainty.
Sorry, I'm a bit busy until later today. BABS final today in a couple of hours. After that, I'll be free for a while though.
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Hey, Shadoweh, what happened to your UK case that was coming if you weren't dead? You know, the amazing ED1 read of scum UK.
I don't know how you can take 'amazing' and 'ED1' in the same sentence seriously. I've tried to explain why ShoeCat makes me look funny at her. In any case I wasn't talking about making a case. I can honestly say I was not reading half the posts made at the the time.
huh what: Let me help you with the misunderstanding. Every time you say something was obvious, it actually wasn't. I don't feel you've answered my question to my satisfaction, so I'll try a different one. What do you think of Bard now? Do you find him more town or scum for his gambit and the way he handled his questionings? I'm also wondering what this other content you're referencing was. It's entirely possible I missed it.
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Bardiche's actual gambit is a null tell, in my opinion. I do, however, believe that town is slightly more likely to attempt to end the RVS than scum, since scum have to draw attention to themselves in the process, and if their attempt goes wrong, it's usually not worth the pay-off. I also feel his posting and his opinions have been townie enough.
Posts #28 to #58 all came before my accusations of coasting, and each of the meatier ones could have been analyzed for scummitude. Just because they spawned from Bard's gambit doesn't mean that they're the exact same thing - my qualms were with people who were choosing to focus on voting Bard solely because of his gambit and really no one else. Even ragging on Bard for something other than his gambit would have been acceptable, but everyone seemed to just choose to vote him for having potentially shot somebody.
So uh, why am I scum again? You keep making nitpicks about my posts, but you haven't explained how my actions have scum intent.
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Even if it is rude to start the game before the Mod arrives, I still think it's more pro-town to get your reaction to at the very least Bardiche's vig in before Affinity shows up.
Feel like I should still address this. Thing is, I don't care how pro-town or anti-town something is in that situation. I'm not going to game the system just because it benefits me. I'm still extremely disappointed that other people actually thought it was okay to do so.
1) If Shadoweh actually dies, it's almost guaranteed she's town. She was shot without making a single content post. It wasn't based on reads.
I agree with this statement.
However, Shadoweh's reaction to the shot was weird. Almost like she Knee she wasn't going to die .
And disagree with this one.
I feel like Shadoweh's response to the whole thing is extremely townie. If the shot was real there really was no reason to think that Shadoweh was scum in my opinion. If that had been a real vig shot, I agree that it would have been not only dickish, but legit scummy. It's not like a scum hitman would be completely out of the question, and Bard does enjoy is Refuge In Audacity and silly scum gambits. I wouldn't clear him on it making no sense as scum. He is absolutely wrong that he has an equal chance of shooting scum as town in that game. That implies that 50% of the game is scum, and if that were the case the game would be over already. :V Therefore, by sheer numbers chance, he has a higher chance of hitting scum and I find claiming otherwise to try to justify it scummy. I also really dislike how he was trying to justify that Shadoweh was a legit good target. Shadoweh herself sums up my opinions pretty well (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659088.html#msg659088).
That sums up my opinions on his pre-game shot. Now that it's been revealed to be a gambit...I don't have a problem with it. It justifies what he did in the pre-game phase because if anyone (especially Shadoweh) thought there was any chance of it being fake it would completely change how they reacted. I know how that is from my shot last game. ;P I'm actually really liking a lot of what he has to say right now. Not willing to lynch Bard.
Continuing to why I think Shadoweh's response is townie. It's pretty simple, she did exactly what I would expect from one. She posted her reads (as minimal as they were since only a few people had posted), she was visibly upset and she didn't immediately condemn the attacker (because it really did seem like something he would do). I really see no reason to think she's scum right now. LLD's conspiracy theory revolving around this makes me question her alignment. Not willing to lynch Shadoweh. Not willing to lynch LLD either, but I will be watching her posts closely. Oh, and LLD I would also like an answer to UK's question for you. I've looked through Shadoweh's posts and I don't understand where you're getting the "she knew she wasn't going to die" vibe at all.
So with that said, I don't find UK scummy either. Her thought process seems perfectly logical to me. Bard's shot was scummy before the reveal, why would she think Shadoweh was anything but town? Shadoweh's responses were extremely townie, why would she think she was scum? I'm not following the case on her at all.
So let's get to the people I AM willing to lynch shall we? :P
##Vote Kiro
Your entire case on UK is on stuff that was done during the confirmation phase. This is fine, but why didn't you bother to say any of this when you first posted rather than random voting? Why was seeing Shadoweh's flip/whether or not Bard was lying so important that you would basically not scumhunt until you got it? I'm also not really fond of the attack on HW either, particularly the mention of #77. I thought his next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659124.html#msg659124) clarified what he was doing there very well, so not being able to understand what he meant by it smells a little funny to me.
I am also willing to lynch Dormio. He's taking conspiracy theories to a whole new level, but there's more to it than that for me. For why I dislike the conspiracy theories, see HW's posts. He's said everything I would say about them. To add, his voting pattern (outside of the silly RVS votes) is terrible. So he was voting Bard because his vote was scummy and because Bard's shot was scummy? Okay, I can buy that. Later, he's still voting for Bard, but seems to think UK is worse. He says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659164.html#msg659164) that the reason he didn't vote for UK was just because votes didn't count. I believe that fakevotes have their own meaning, and I find not switching to the person you find the scummiest, even if you only have a fakevote, suspicious. Plus, now that he DOES have a real vote he hasn't voted.
Both feel like they don't particularly care about finding scum to me. I feel like Kiro is a bit worse. The vote on Hourai and then making a case on UK when he could have done that instead of random voting just smells so wrong to me.
Warning - while you were typing 3 hours have passed
orz. I think I deal with all the cuts though.
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@Shadoweh: Does "funny" and "bad feeling" equate to you thinking that UK is scum, or something else?
@Kitten4u: I didn't change my non-existant vote to UK because it was non-existant.
And I forgot to:
##Vote UncertainKitten
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One on every page
UncertainKitten (2) - Kiro, Dormio
Bardiche (1) - Lady Lambdadelta
Kiro (2) - Bardiche, Kitten4u
Dormio (1) - Huhwhat
Huhwhat (1) - Shadoweh
Not voting - Everyone else
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I didn't change my non-existant vote to UK because it was non-existant.
He says that the reason he didn't vote for UK was just because votes didn't count. I believe that fakevotes have their own meaning, and I find not switching to the person you find the scummiest, even if you only have a fakevote, suspicious.
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So Kiro, your case on UK is that she could be town just as well as scum, but since it's ~*weird*~ you're voting her?
HOW IS WEIRD 'SCUMMY', AND WHY THE HELL DO YOU WANT TO LYNCH SOMEONE YOU THINK IS TOWN?
Capitals so I'm sure you'll catch it. Ignoring people's attacks on you in favour of a wishy-washy "could be town could be scum" case doesn't really impress me, and it's certainly not town-minded.
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UK: You gonna tell me what you don't like about my case on you? Your comment to Dormio is that he hasn't explained how you could be Scum, but for me, you just have a bad feeling about me. My impression from that post is that I actually put forth a case that isn't exactly hogwash. You realize I can't update my read on you if that's all you're going to say when I have some feeling that you could be Town. Also, answer my question about HW and Zak.
Bard: No, weird is not always scummy. Weird means it's a point that needs public discussion. And no, I don't want to lynch someone who I think is Town. I said that I could see UK as Townie doing what she did. I'm not flat out saying that I have a Town read on her. Here's my caps in return: DO NOT MISREP ME. Whether I continue to see her as Scum or not will require some more back and forths between her and myself so I am waiting on her.
Doing the HW reread, there's some active questioning going on that looks good. I see why HW brought forth what he said in #64 because apparently he couldn't get through to UK on #61. I guess that copied case is more amazing than I give it credit for because he got UK to open up within the 14 minutes between #62 and #71. And I missed reading HW's #82 as a clarification that his #77 is sarcasm. Frankly, I couldn't parse that either. It's primarily that UK opened up to HW when she was all so secretive about her non-Bard reads that drew my first look at HW. I don't think I'd pursue HW if I decide to switch off of UK today.
K4U: Is that all your case is on me? That I didn't look like I wanted to scumhunt and because I expressed suspicion over something HW did that I clearly did not understand? There's not much I can respond to there that I probably haven't already covered now. I'll wait for the rest of the game to join in and if I'm still your top suspect by the Day's end, I'll worry more. You seemed to cover most everyone else in your post so I actually don't have a question for you.
To answer the jokevote concern from both Bard and K4U requires me making a personal attack. So here it goes. My jokevote is a counter-troll specifically aimed at Bard. For messing up the early game by reaction fishing through only half the player base when Scum were more likely than not willing to just sit it out and let Town trip over something that would not generate anything conclusive. You realize you singlehandedly shoehorned the entire Day 1 discussion to just the 7 or so players who bothered to post in the fake pregame unless someone willingly stuck their retarded neck in? Who are people voting? Only those first 7 and me because I'm of the retarded neck variety. But whatever. I am willing to take the heat and multiple cases thrown on me just so I can befuddle Bard back. And it was all too easy (hello Mr. Capslock) considering you said you hate RVS and jokevotes in #54. Whether I rue this action or not is my personal challenge for today so we'll see where it goes from there.
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I wasn't aware you had a question about HW and Zak. Restate it?
I've explained my bad feeling already. Town Kiro tells me why I'm scum. I'm getting the feeling Scum Kiro is telling me and the town why I'm "weird", and pretending that means scum. I'm not sure how this was unclear.
I've explained why I opened up to HW after my secrecy, right? I'm pretty sure I did, but in case I didn't, I decided that transparency was better at that point. Before I had thought I could get more reactions by holding back, but between HW exposing Bard *could* be gambiting (a possibility I had considered, but felt would be anti town to mention), and the fact that I couldn't come up with what reactions I was looking for, I decided to give an answer. I also wanted to see others answer, so I led the charge.
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And answer for me how Huh What was being level-headed in #64 while Zak was being hilarious in #69.
That's the question, based on things you said in #71. I didn't particularly like why 2 people wondering what your thoughts were led to one of them being called "good" and the other being called "stupid."
If your reaction fishing changed because you thought HW spoke the unspoken thing (hello Edible's signature), I could understand that better. And you did say that at the end of #62 and then kinda relented at #71 so I can see that change in thought process. I just didn't connect the dots because I expected you to announce a change in thought in the same post, not your previous one.
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I went ahead and reread your posts Kiro to make sure I wasn't being unfair (it did take me 3 hours and four rereads of that pre-game clusterfuck to post that after all), but I really don't think I am. My HW point is not my main point, and I don't see where you addressed my other concern in your previous posts. Why was resolving the Bard/Shadoweh thing so important that you couldn't start scumhunting right out of the gate? Because I see nothing in your case about UK that happened after D1 started. Would Bard being an actual vig/not being a vig change things that much? I don't really see anything in your UK case that would have changed. The HW point was just something that struck me as not paying attention. If that were my only point I would be voting for Dormio right now because it's not a strong point at all. I still felt it was worth mentioning though.
As for everyone else, don't worry I won't forget about them. I already feel like their lurking reflects poorly on them when we have so much to work with right now. But I can't really say anything about them until the actually post.
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IIRC HW wasn't calling me scum for it. If I'm incorrect, then I must have misread something. Zak calling me scum with his...special case was kind of hilarious, really. Particularly given the fact that Zak often calls me scum incorrectly (though that's not part of my argument, just a kind of funny thing I note in general).
OK, so, about that reread. I'll do it tomorrow morning. I am on FIRE when I mafia in the morning. Today's been too long and too much DnD and work and asgdfasagjanaaksajsdglija
For now, placeholder
##Vote Kiro
Things aren't adding up for me, and I'm comfortable placing this until I have more solid reads. That's...L-5 I think, if I can math at all.
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Opening nonspell go!
huh what:
An earlier thing that stood out to me about you was your semi loaded question in 64 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086). Things wrong with this are, Bards gambit now it seems, was a pretty big point that made up most of the game at that point. That, and nothing else really happened that wasn't almost directly connected to the gambit. Since half of the game had yet to report in, people could have just had null reads, not found anyone more scummy than Bard and his actions, no matter how easy of a case it was to make.
77's satire followed by 82's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659124.html#msg659124) what reads to me as more satire explaining it reads as strange. What comes out of it makes me uneasy since 82 seems to be HW giving UK a townie read, which is plausible. What had UK done at that point to make you think she is town? Also starts the "obviously trend".
Obviously trend continues with 144 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659608.html#msg659608) stating that he knew Bard was gambiting and that obviously there was much more before post 64 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086) that could have been talked about between the players that got loud enough to make noise in the confirmation phase to leave Bards gambit completely out. Except the part where the gambit was still a major part in all discussion at that point, so I'm feeling backtracking coming from 144 and 148's, huge waffle on Bard, which still hasn't answered how anything from the "obviously trend" which wasn't obvious or stated otherwise earlier, isn't deserving of scrutiny for what it is. Backtracking.
##Vote: huh what
I find myself heavily backing the idea from Kiro that pages 2-5 are incomplete and people are treating the game as just the people who made noise during that period. While it's nice to start making cases and all, people attacking others for not choosing someone who's already posted as scum when scum could be lurking are eyebrow raising; as well as the people who are already making scumpairs. I mean what the fuck?
More Kiro, is that I'm not following the case on him. His read to me is null at worst, reading more townie to me. His 154 is insightful and seems to have townie intend while clearing up some stuff and bring a pretty big piece to the table about how the game is about the 7 people who talked first thanks to the gambit, because at this point it seems like the flat out truth, though I don't want to touch him until I get a flip.
UK: Makes logical sense like always. I can't get a read on her so null until I at least get a flip.
Dormio: Lot's of people have given him scrutiny that I can see for awful votes, crazy theories, not matching words with actions. And he still disagrees with others who say that even if pregame didn't count officially, votes made show intent on what you think. Which is more bad logic to add to his actions not equaling his words. I'd buy the Dormio case but I want to see huh what's first.
orz more ~words~ when I has the time.
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OK. So...let me get this straight Schezo. I make logical sense. But...you don't see the case on Kiro. I am voting Kiro, and find him scum for the way he's attacking me. Further, my "logical" proposal was that pages 2 through 5 matter, even in the case of a gambit. So, what are you saying?
Secondly, you think Durrmio is bad logicking it up. Do you think his bad logic makes him scum?
Thirdly, I don't follow the case on Huh what. Could you elucidate it concisely for me? Tell me what posts are precisely scum intended, and why. It feels like you have inflated your case with "weird" stuff that's mostly null.
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##Vote: Dormio
Really...I. Really. You're still thinking UK is scum for, let me check... Ah, as you said in #83, how UK reeks of confirmation bias? Be great if you elaborated more with like, anything. I want to know if you still are just sticking to that for your reasoning or if you have -anything- else and why your view hasn't changed a bit over the last two pages. It doesn't help you're poking at Shadoweh for her UK read while not elaborating, almost as if you're waiting for a wagon to start so you can steal points.
I'm also not getting your big hate on #46 myself. Care to break it down, instead of throwing terms on it to try and make it look bad while not explaining why it's so terrible and scummy? I want to know why you're looking at that post and saying 'UK is totally god damn scum' since you haven't made a stink about any of her posts since then.
You're not even really pushing a case here, you're just trying to say 'this person looks bad' and hoping town takes a look at their actions and finds them scummy enough to look and start a wagon while trying to cover your ass here. That's not townie play, Dormio.
As for Bardiche's gambit and following- I'd really only have large issues is Bardiche actually went through with it, though I'd probably be a bit biased with him towards town because it's the kind of thing he does, but I'm honestly just filing it under Bardiche's rampant hatred of RVS. I think he needs to talk about his issues with it with someone. It's starting to get out of hand.
Shadoweh's reaction makes perfect sense for someone who just got vigged. I don't really think you could ask for more from someone who had to have serious doubts on if she was even alive anymore. In the same sense, I...kinda see UK's posts making perfect sense as a reaction to someone just getting shot within a few moments of the game. My only complaints are that she really could've used a moment to calm down and post something that wasn't as clear cut, but I fear she would've used her typical style of making everything black and white anyway, and that's not really anything particularly scummy.
Other than that, I'm going to give a stink eye to PX for trying to wander out of making a comment on Bardiche's gambit after making a meaningless post and 'sticking his retarded neck out' in response to the gambit. If you're going to say something, place a -vote- even, fucking write something more than 'WRRRY' over and over. And then don't curl into a ball when people expect you to say something and wait for the mod to force you to. Willing to see him die.
As for Kiro, I'm going to express dislike in how you're deliberately counter-trolling even if i get the intent and respect it. There's better ways to express dislike than trying to aggravate other players. Like using cuss words over and over and being unnecessarily mean! (look at me and my glass house). I seriously see no actual issue with him, and given a majority of the votes of him are based on the jokevote out of RVS alone I'd prefer not to see him lynched today.
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Why was resolving the Bard/Shadoweh thing so important that you couldn't start scumhunting right out of the gate? Because I see nothing in your case about UK that happened after D1 started. Would Bard being an actual vig/not being a vig change things that much? I don't really see anything in your UK case that would have changed.
I don't care if you say you're fair or not. Why are you appealing to me that you are? If I think you aren't, I will call you out on it and list examples of where I see it. The verdict is still open in that regard because you're primarily going on your feelings. There's little else I can do other than to just assuage your worry. That is a bit "unfair." Other than that, I have no issue with your line of questioning and your opinions are adequately covered.
To answer your above question: because even if I was 99% sure it was a gambit, there's no certainty until there is certainty. Until Bard or the mod confirmed something, it was unresolved. And until then, I wanted reactions from the other people that hadn't posted in the pregame. But I should have realized being one of the first ones to report in for official start means that I should have set the example and started scumhunting at the start rather than hope to find something from someone else. An error in judgement on my part. I really wanted to lurk though ED1 because I'm way more confident that there are more scum in the later 7 rather than in the first 7. But alas, I would look like a hypocrite if I did it that way. So I tried to take the best from both worlds (respond early while hoping I could get reads on others), and it quickly became apparent it wasn't going to fly. So I produced my case.
I guess there isn't too much new to UK's case other than she didn't suspect Bard at the start unlike during fake Day 1 and she only decided to place her first vote 12 hours into the day on me as a placeholder because "things don't add up." Leaving me hanging once again.
IIRC HW wasn't calling me scum for it. If I'm incorrect, then I must have misread something. Zak calling me scum with his...special case was kind of hilarious, really. Particularly given the fact that Zak often calls me scum incorrectly (though that's not part of my argument, just a kind of funny thing I note in general).
So the primary difference was one voted you and one didn't. Go more into why Zak's case was special then. Him getting you wrong in the past doesn't say anything about this current game. He could very well be right. I'll also see if Zak still thinks you're Scum. As for what I think of you now, I'm not sure. I can clearly see how Townie UK would have approached the fake Day 1 and it matches quite well, but real Day 1 is different. No PX case or vote has been produced, a bit of consternation at Dormio, but no real follow through with him as you seemed to be waiting for whatever I said and even after I have answered some things for you, there is a placeholder vote on me with no further questions for me to address. You were gungho throughout fake Day 1 so the mellowing out is a noticable change.
Also UK, since it was mentioned a bit in K4U's question, why did you drop Bard from your suspicion list at the start of official Day 1? How did things change there from when you first saw Bard try the fake vig during fake Day 1?
Cut: Whoa, some more players have arrived. Skimmed it all, will comment later. I need a gaming break.
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EBWOP: Probably didn't answer the following part too well.
Would Bard being an actual vig/not being a vig change things that much?
It could have. When the difference between the 2 is a person dying or not, it very well could have. I tried to withhold judgement on that as long as I possibly could.
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Was wondering when you'd ask about that. I wasn't actually 100% convinced of Bard scum at any point. But I acted like I was to see how people would react. That's what I need to farm pre game for. To see what reactions made sense now that I'm not in the moment. Of course, people are going to say I'm backtracking now. So be it ^-^.
As for being mellow today, let me put it this way. I woke up about noon. I had to complete more than an hour of work in an hour, to be ready for DnD. Then I ran DnD for fourish hours. Almost directly from that, I ended up playing DnD for 3 hours. I was free about 10 PM, but I still haven't really felt up to reading the game. I've been responding to what's happening now because I should at least try my best at that. But the rest of the good stuff will have to wait for me to reread. I *have* posted a short case on PX, about how his refusal to comment on fake D1 was simply awful. He should have just not posted if he wasn't going to react. So, essentially, I'm kind of taking it easy because I've been distracted throughout most of today, and will hopefully be smashing into scum with the fury of 1000 suns tomorrow. I wonder how much you'll get burned when I do that, Kiro ^-^.
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Ugh, tired, hungry, and eyes hurting posting, let's go.
Let me clarify my post 55. It was a rushed post, and I only read Bard's latest post after my last post. It was a direct response to Bard saying that my "case" on him wasn't serious.
Now...
Was wondering when you'd ask about that. I wasn't actually 100% convinced of Bard scum at any point. But I acted like I was to see how people would react. That's what I need to farm pre game for. To see what reactions made sense now that I'm not in the moment. Of course, people are going to say I'm backtracking now. So be it ^-^.
...Yeah no. Seems like a convenient way to hide everything you said pre-game.
I see no need to pursue whether Bard's shot was a gambit or not at this time, HW. I don't appreciate you bringing that possibility up.
Yes, because your entire case relied on if he was a vig.
Bard's vig shot being a gambit does not really change much.
I have different reasons for not encouraging considering Bard's shot a gambit
But... you... Fine, what reasons? All you have been saying about Bard is that he is scum if he is a vig. You haven't given any clue as to why you think he's scum for some other reason. At the same time, you're putting Bard off the "scum" list because your sole reason for voting for him would instantly become invalidated if he wasn't a vig. Which... yeah.
@Zak: It doesn't change how I feel about Bard, per se. I suppose it would change the facts I use to indict him. But, I did say it wouldn't change "much"
So you're saying you have reasons why Bard IS scum that isn't involved with his fake!vig... but you haven't said anything about those reasons. Your only case on Bard is that he shot someone instantly, his target was enough to validate him as 100% scum, and you say you have different reasons he's scum?
D1, you say this
Bard might be scum, but his shot won't be what indicts him.
So now you're saying that his fake!vig isn't the reason he's scum... SO WHY HAVE YOU BEEN DOING NOTHING BUT SAYING THAT IS THE REASON HE IS SCUM?!
Rageless version: You're saying you have a secret case on Bardiche while pushing another case on him, then trying to get the case you're pushing to vanish from everyone as it's getting invalidated.
##Vote: UK
@Chaore:
Holy god, did you not read my 115/116 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659249.html#msg659249). Also, WRYYYY is my "This post got cut" message.
Post more tomorrow when I'm not busy because I'm about to drop dead from hunger and sleep right now.
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Freaking hell.
I don't recall biology being this hard.
Whatever.
@Kitten4u: Well, I was thinking that it would be fine to continue discussing without votes, you know, since they were completely invalid.
But I really don't like it if you're going to try to use that to push a case on me.
@Chaore: Like I've said, it sounded to me like UK had far too much confidence that Shadoweh was definitely town.
Sorry, kind of out of it today.
Not to mention I got cut by PX!
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Have another one
UncertainKitten (3) - Kiro, Dormio, PX
Bardiche (1) - Lady Lambdadelta
Kiro (3) - Bardiche, Kitten4u, UncertainKitten
Dormio (2) - Huhwhat, Chaore
Huhwhat (2) - Shadoweh, Schezo
Not voting - Everyone else
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<---- Avatar is WAY too happy, see how nice I was going to be when this game started? :<
Was wondering when you'd ask about that. I wasn't actually 100% convinced of Bard scum at any point. But I acted like I was to see how people would react. That's what I need to farm pre game for. To see what reactions made sense now that I'm not in the moment. Of course, people are going to say I'm backtracking now. So be it ^-^.
Don't sound surprised when I call you out for a lack of conviction when you admittedly didn't believe in what you were saying then. Did you actually believe Bard's vig shot was scummy, yes or no, answer please.
And the only time I've personally experienced Zak calling you scum is when you were actually scum.
huh what: Do you remember that time when Bard ended the jokevote phase in Zombies? Which alignment was he again? Your explanation fails because it's a general statement about good town play that applies to anyone except the person you're applying it to. What about Bard's posting and opinions is townie to you? To me it seemed at the time like you were coasting behind Bard, but right now I can't really find a problem with pro-actively pushing us towards seriousness.
Kiro: Just seeing a case on you is weird enough to make me read and see what the fuss is about. After reading post #154 a few times I'm honestly confused how you feel about UK. If you have that much doubt perhaps you should take a look at the other suspects, then restate your case befire deciding if you still believe in it.
I don't think I would be willing to lynch Kiro, and he's right that we've polarized this game into vote the actives, just take a look at the wagons. Everyone on the current wagons needs to take a look around once the slowbies poke their heads out and decide if we're going to ignore them because they slept in. This is going to be a short day, so they had every reason to stay back and let us kill each other.
Dormio: Yes, Dormio, bad feelings relates to me being suspicious of someone being red flavored. I get that you think votes were invalid. That's the only thing I get from you. What do you think about me? How about Kitten4u? Got any updated ideas on why UK could be scum? She's posted a few more times, I think you can do better then a scumslip. Give me your opinions Kyubey Fox.
I feel so used. :ohdear: I wanted to start this game by voting for someone silly then trashing my image so I wouldn't look towny tomorrow, and instead I seem to be established as Obvtown again. I can't even appreciate this because by Day 3 it'll be in doubt all over again, so thanks, thanks alot! >.<
##Unvote
##Vote: Dormio
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Not too impressed with Kiro's "Hey I'm trollan" and calling half the game "retarded", and I'd want him removed from the game for that alone. It reminds me why I sat back the previous game because fuckall if I want to bother with people being strictly anti-town for the sake of bullying a specific player in the game. I had expected more of Kiro, but I am a poor judge of character.
"lolz im trolling" is not a valid excuse to take deliberate action counter to moving the game or even accomplishing any of the goals Kiro claims he set out to do, and if his personal goal here is to "befuddle" me, i.e. deliberately create uncertainty which is pro-scum, I will vote him as scum. In fact I would really like to lynch him but I'm sure there's personal bias now over how he's saying he wants to be a dick just because he disliked how I wanted to move out of RVS immediately. And if your intent is to make me regret playing again, good work, you've succeeded. Pat on the back.
Schezo, I'll need to quote you here. I find myself heavily backing the idea from Kiro that pages 2-5 are incomplete and people are treating the game as just the people who made noise during that period. While it's nice to start making cases and all, people attacking others for not choosing someone who's already posted as scum when scum could be lurking are eyebrow raising; [...] I mean what the fuck?
I read this as, "Please lurk until lurkers post", and while I know MotK has a hardon for lurking, waiting on lurkers is not a healthy action. Lurkers become apparent for not posting soon enough, and I could already jot down who are lurking heavily and who are active lurking simply for providing almost nothing. There's far more to post on than simply the seven that opened the game, and if you hadn't noticed no matter what happens, people always tunnel towards a specific group on D1. This is nothing new and you treating it as such is :psyduck:. Moreover, does that mean you think there are no scum in the seven who posted, or is it just bad to vote for someone who is scummy because there could be a scummier alternative in lurk? I see you vote Huh What who belonged to the first seven, why this disconnect?
More Kiro, is that I'm not following the case on him. His read to me is null at worst, reading more townie to me. His 154 is insightful and seems to have townie intend while clearing up some stuff and bring a pretty big piece to the table about how the game is about the 7 people who talked first thanks to the gambit, because at this point it seems like the flat out truth, though I don't want to touch him until I get a flip.
Okay, cite parts to support your opinion. Which parts are insightful and have townie intent, what is he clearing up and how is him stating the obvious about the seven players a "pretty big piece"?
##Unvote
##Vote: Lady Lambdadelta
Let's head to this piece of bafflement then. Lambda, please restate your logic on why both Shadoweh and I are scum, or at the very least on why I am scum. You're voting me despite saying you won't vote over a vig shot, that vig shot is now ~*fake*~. I don't like your logic of how I am scum if I am really a dayvig, and how Shadoweh is town if I am, BUT if Shadoweh isn't dead then she is surely scum, and if she flips scum then so am I.
No, really, enlighten me here on how this scenario works out because I am not seeing it.
As for PX and Dormio, not touching those wagons because PX seems like he's at least trying and his case on UK seems to be fairly town-minded, attacking her on points that I agree look odd. Dormio I want you to post more. I'll withhold opinion on UK until I have time to sort through everything and get less annoyed with Kiro's "imma trollan :toot:".
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- Obvious etiquette, such as playing to win, not starting unnecessary fights, and not editing posts, should be observed.
- Each player must post once every 24 hours, lest they get prodded. Too much of this will result in a modkill up to my discretion.
- PM actions to all mods and co-mods (Me, Edible, and pesco) during appropriate times in the day.
- Have fun.
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@PX: So, essentially, the case on me now is that because I was reaction fishing I must be scum. Awesome. Yes, the gambit thing was a pain, but not for the stupid reason you stated, but for the reason /I've/ stated several fucking times at this point. Secondly, if you assume that my 100% scum bard case is not an actual thing, like I JUST FUCKING STATED, the red text becomes much truer. You're basically stuck on assuming I actually thought Bard was certainly scum, which is not the god damn case, and my red text actually backs me up pretty solidly there. Again, talking to Zak was continuing the illusion. And finally, my early D1 comment was actually going to be countered by me coming clean earlier after I reread the game, but that didn't become a thing that happened.
How about you get your head out of your a-, I mean, tunnel, and try actually scumhunting rather than, once again, playing "gotcha" games with facts you can't actually support. You've only given opinions on me. I demand you tell me who is scum outside of myself. Now.
And now I'll do that reread, though I'm already in an awful mood. It'd be one thing if the people attacking me actually did things that made sense but...uh...so far Kiro is the closest one to having anything that can remotely be considered an accurate "case" on me, and even that is based on me doing "weird" stuff.
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OK, so, first thing that sticks out is Dormio's vote on Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659023.html#msg659023). What was your opinion of the vig shot at the time? You clearly were able to react to it. But instead of even acknowledging it, you just choo choo with some RVS reasoning. I do not like this.
Second thing is Bard pressing me on why he's scum. I'm actually not sure about the intent here. If I had given a more decisive answer to start with, his continued pressing would be bad but, as it stands, I think it's null, possibly slight scum, because I *did* explain why I "thought he was scum", and he chose to ignore it.
This is Dormio (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659045.html#msg659045) continusing to not provide much of a town/scum opinion on the dayvig. Which is actually really weird in retrospect. (Also no comment on my totes awesome "case" on Bard)
OH! Shadoweh, you're still alive (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659059.html#msg659059). I asked about this at the time. How I was supposedly "waffly". Please answer that now that your demise isn't a thing that's going to happen.
OK, this is all kinds of weird from Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659068.html#msg659068). Dormio and PX are scummiest, but you'd lynch Dormio first and UK second. Further, my wafflyness never IS explained. Please to be doing that. Even with your ~*~derp~*~ caveat on PX, this post looks extremely awkward, particularly given the "Well should could be town because *meta*" part.
And then PX is being awful about not taking it seriously. Though I'll grant I misread that at the time as "I'm not going to take [the entire pregame phase] seriously". Suppose it had been a serious shot, PX. How would you have reacted to Bard? To people voting Bard? OH WAIT, I JUST ASKED SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE YOU WERE CHOO CHOO TUNNELING ON ME.
So, let me get this in a row here, Dormio (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659074.html#msg659074). How does Bard's anti town dayvig make him scum? I couldn't ask well back then because of my own "stance" on the subject. But I'm serious now. Also, why would you rolefish Bard's ass for no reason?
@HW 59: Just want a clarification. Do you think Dormio attacking me but voting Bard has any relation to my alignment? This isn't very clear.
@Dormio 60: [[citation needed]]. WHY Wouldn't he be a town vig?
Dormio 66: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659092.html#msg659092) [[citation needed]]. You continually explain how it's a "playing it safe"
Zak 69 is still hilarious, particularly given the ~*~new facts~*~.
Anyway, after all that what I'm getting by page four is that Dormio thinks I'm scum because I thought Shadoweh was town. He also uses a lot of rhetoric and vague statements to push this. I'm honestly kind of seeing where HW gets Dormio scum here.
PX 115: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659249.html#msg659249) This is just awful but it's town awful. You think I misrepped Bard in relation to you, when it was an honest mistake. Further, I'd state that if I tried to implicate Bard because of things he said about you, I'd probably be pretty quickly caught by, yanno, people READING THE POST IN QUESTION. Your other point is a gotcha game that misreps ME. No, I just couldn't reasonably push a case on scum Bard vigging scum Shadoweh (FOR GOOD REASON IT TURNS OUT BECAUSE I TOTALLY FORGOT THE N2 RECRUIT).
Actually, I do have one issue with it. It sort of reads a bit like "Huh, I need to call someone scum. Oh, someone is voting UK. I should vote UK. This is the best motherfucking idea I ever had. Oh...but how will I make her scum? Hmm...well, if I assume she's scum, posts X, Y, and Z look scummy. AM I DOIN IT RITE?" Let me be charitable and just say no. No you are not, PX.
Hmm, I'd like Dorian to post again, more fully about the other players. More importantly who he thinks is scum. His first post is mostly a waffle and it doesn't make me happy.
LLD: Now that I've remembered that a clear would only last until D3, had the shot been real, would you still advocate Bard scum if Shadoweh scum? What if Shadoweh had flipped town? Further, do Bard and Shadoweh still need to die with the fake shot? I also want my earlier questions answered, but you'll get to those.
Shadoweh 142: I hope things make more sense NOW. Course, had you actually flipped I'd still be pissed at Bard, even if I didn't think he was scum. Hmm, did HW fail to react to the vig? I thought he DID react with his gambit comment (which wasn't the best but not the worst). I kind of feel like he's been coming from a pro town place, trying to create information on intent as much as possible.
Shadoweh 168: I think the vig would have been mostly a null tell, had it been real. I'd probably have considered it slightly scummy, but not 100% lynch Bard now scummy.
Bard 169: What has changed between LLD's initial post and now that is causing you to vote her? She hasn't posted any reaction yet.
(Also, a bonus for PX! More hinting I was reaction fishing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659082.html#msg659082))
tl;dr forthcoming.
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First, EBWOP: Dormio 66 should be you constantly FAIL to explain, sorry.
##Unvote, Vote Dormio
I still have awful, awful vibes from Kiro, but as for cases I can actually support, Dormio is key. Most of his game has been spent attacking me with vague things that sound scummy on the surface but don't really have any meaning. It's just rhetoric that sounds pretty, and I've had to press him for post after post to even TRY to get him to say something substantial. So, no, sorry, we're not accepting that. The scum intent is fairly clear, in that getting someone mislynched on questionable reasons is fairly good for scum, and using awful arguments that look good on the surface makes more sense as scum than town. Further, he attacks Bard in the same way, calling his vig shot "anti town", but never actually explains why Bard is scum. Finally, his posting today has been mostly disregarding things that happened today, and clinging to his tatters of a pre game case.
Shadoweh, Bard, HW and PX are probably town. I don't want any of them lynched today. And GOD I hate to admit that last one because I don't wanna be stuck with PX all game.
I don't have a second scum yet, and I'm almost certain they're in the people not posting (assuming it's not Kiro).
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EBWOP: Sorry for the spam but Dormio is now at L-4.
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:]
Hi I'm not dead. Expect a post shortly.
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Alright, woke up but now I'm still hungry. :(
I forgot to mention that I'm not gonna push what I was saying towards the end of the UK section of post 115, since I would be calling you scum for tripping over words and that would be silly.
UK: If you are reaction fishing and your 100% Bard!scum feeling is fake, then my entire case is invalidated. Which was pretty much why I didn't like it. But I'll let that go for now.... Anyways, you said you have reasons why Bard is scum that's not vig. Is that real or not? If yes, then state them.
Lady Miyo: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659454.html#msg659454) Yeah... that's not why the UK wagon was there. That was DURRMIO'S reason why he's voting her, but nobody else was saying that. Also, that Bard vote seems really weird considering your post was condemning Shadoweh. Also, you're using scumpairs on ED1. Who is scummy individually, not as a pair?
Uh crap... got to go and I'm gonna be busy for half the day, so I'll leave with this.
##Unvote
##Vote: Lady Lambdadelta
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I would like to add my opinion here but I?m unfortunately only able to say, you lost me!
My opinion about gambles: Scum can use them as provocativeness, to test out situations and to hide/deform your opinions to make an read more difficult.
Town use them to get reactions but such reactions are provoked and read-wise at best questionable.
And about Bardiches gamble I have to say that it's so incredible ridiculous that I'm simply lacking the standards to do something with the ?reactions your gamble produced?.
##vote: Bardiche
For being the prima causa of 6 pages headache causing crap.
And now this:
Not too impressed with Kiro's "Hey I'm trollan" and calling half the game "retarded", and I'd want him removed from the game for that alone.
That's odd cause I've seen two posts that give me the "Hey I'm trollan" impression here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659020.html#msg659020) and here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659431.html#msg659431), so you can make two out of it cause I call the whole game "retarded", guess who I think is responsible for it. You literally kicked me out of me train of thoughts before I even had a chance to get in.
And now to something that is hopefully 10Km away from any kind of gamble, before I lose the last bit of motivation I?ve left.
Kro could you clarify your case on UK, I have troubles to define which points you find weird and which scummy.
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OK, this is all kinds of weird from Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659068.html#msg659068). Dormio and PX are scummiest, but you'd lynch Dormio first and UK second. Further, my wafflyness never IS explained. Please to be doing that. Even with your ~*~derp~*~ caveat on PX, this post looks extremely awkward, particularly given the "Well should could be town because *meta*" part.
I am a derp and changed my mind three quarters through that post. Your waffliness is Well, we'll see how she flips.
, which felt like backtracking from "you're definite scum" to "you're scum if Shadoweh flips town", and felt like a weakning of your case on me. There's no should could be town because meta, I'm permitting PX's attitude there because it was an unbelievable opener?
Dorian's just voting whoever he dislikes most on a personal level so I'm going to ignore him.
PX are you seriously just bandwagon hopping and following me. What the hell?
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...*she could be town. Referring to:
UK is being waffly and I don't get why she'd motivate shooting Shadoweh to be a pro-scum move, but she does tend to jump to conclusions without really motivating them much.
The but I tend to jump to conclusions part.
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Thinking out loud. I meant that that made the read a lot more closer to "standard UK regardless of alignment" than actively scummy, because you do have a habit of not explaining things you think are obvious, whereas I have a habit of not finding the obvious, well... obvious.
What do you think about PX and Dorian's latest posts?
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Dorian bugs me but I'm not sure what to make of him. Like...I heavily disagree with his vote, and the reasoning bugs me. I don't get a feeling of scumminess from his post. I...literally have no idea how to approach it.
I honestly didn't bother reading PX's post because I figured it'd give me a headache. Reading it, it's kind of awful. PX, I post the same question to you that I did to Bard. What has changed since LLD's post?
Speaking of that, HEY BARD!
Bard 169: What has changed between LLD's initial post and now that is causing you to vote her? She hasn't posted any reaction yet.
THIS IS STILL A THING!
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Yeah, I think Dorian's just upset. I... can gather why you would be upset, and I'll stick to lurking out the RVS in the future. This radical approach thing is obviously not doing any favours, as I never meant to upset people. That said, I'd like it if he could look past his entire personal grudges and move on to an actual vote on an actual scummy person or at least support why I am scummy for doing what I did.
What changed is that I no longer want to pursue Kiro. Out of the people who posted before, I'm not getting scummy vibes so hard; you're the only one I'd be undecided on and I admit to waffling on that point. My gut feeling thinks you understood what was up halfway and hence dropped suspicions, but you changed that story and I am unsure what to belief. I want to make up my mind about you in the days to come.
So Kiro is not my target for the day as my perception of him is too coloured right now, and most who posted before aren't presenting very hard scummy vibes. I can see the effort on Dormio's part and find that I understand where he's coming from; I don't feel that he is very scummy in his actions, or nothing he's said really sticks to mind as being really scummy. Same goes for PX, although his latest follow-up vote to me is suspicious considering he didn't acknowledge LLD before.
LLD's actions struck me as weird, and much more than a vote calling for her lynch this is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion.
So, I maintain that Kiro is being very scummy for reasons cited before but I cannot in good faith vote him and state that it is my earnest and undiluted opinion, as I am very much peeved that he would deliberately aggravate people and sour their game in response to an unintentional souring of his game. His actions to troll me (capslock don't indicate anger or frustration on my part) are a deliberate method to obstruct normal town-actions, as this passage: I am willing to take the heat and multiple cases thrown on me just so I can befuddle Bard back. And it was all too easy (hello Mr. Capslock) considering you said you hate RVS and jokevotes in #54.
shows that he has no interest to do what interests town most, he just wants to take potshots at me.
Which is cool and all, but it does mean I can't trust that I think he's truly scummy or that I feel he's being such a dick he should just be lynched for my own benefit. I'll revisit it later when I'm less annoyed with myself for being such a poor judge of character.
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I see LLD's actions as weird and not well thought out, but I don't find them scummy. This could change if she ever gets to, you know, actually posting. Yours and PX's votes make me frown a lot. PX's moreso, though I feel you never really telegraphed this change, even if I can accept you don't want to pursue Kiro right now because of colored reads. PX's change is completely untelegraphed, and pretty much makes me instantly doubt my town read on him. While his "cases" on me were awful, they still felt like ~*~righteous town~*~, particularly about the mistake I made regarding his statement of disinterest earlier.
In Dormio's case, I don't really see the "effort" that you're claiming he's putting forth. I see the exact opposite, honestly.
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He's been posting a lot to argue with you, which seems to me like a lot of effort to put into it. Why do you feel he's been lazy about it?
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Let's all play nice now okay people?
UncertainKitten (2) - Kiro, Dormio
Bardiche (2) - Lady Lambdadelta, Dorian
Kiro (1) - Kitten4u
Dormio (4) - Huhwhat, Chaore, Shadoweh, UncertainKitten
Huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Lady LambaDelta (2) - Bardiche, PX
14 alive, 8 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 20.5 hours
Not voting - Zakeri, Hourai
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Because while he's been reiterating his arguments, they've still been in vague terms, over and over. It took forever to get him to outright SAY what he thought. Not to mention he was trying to float "THAT WAS ANTI TOWN" as a legitimate reason for lynching you in this scenario.
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So, I maintain that Kiro is being very scummy for reasons cited before but I cannot in good faith vote him and state that it is my earnest and undiluted opinion, as I am very much peeved that he would deliberately aggravate people and sour their game in response to an unintentional souring of his game. His actions to troll me (capslock don't indicate anger or frustration on my part) are a deliberate method to obstruct normal town-actions, as this passage: shows that he has no interest to do what interests town most, he just wants to take potshots at me.
Which is cool and all, but it does mean I can't trust that I think he's truly scummy or that I feel he's being such a dick he should just be lynched for my own benefit. I'll revisit it later when I'm less annoyed with myself for being such a poor judge of character.
Yup, you figured it out. I can indeed be petty like that. It's hard acting the good guy all the time. Why do you think I take all these long absences from the forum every now and then?
I know full well the circumstances regarding your gambit are not all your fault. If people wanted to start talking, there's nothing I can do about that. I was unhappy that it seemed to benefit Scum due to how it played out (regardless of your or my alignment). And it's a legit strategy if that's how you want to play it. But I didn't want to accept that so I did what I did. And to save my own retarded ass, I had to admit what I did.
I claim the instigator in this game's unpleasantness and will accept any punishment the mods/forum mods deem fit. I don't intend to be playing any more mafia games in the future now that I have set fire to my bridges. The anger has passed and I will get back into the game in my next post unless the mods determine I be replaced/modkilled.
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Yeah, I think Dorian's just upset. I... can gather why you would be upset, and I'll stick to lurking out the RVS in the future. This radical approach thing is obviously not doing any favours, as I never meant to upset people. That said, I'd like it if he could look past his entire personal grudges and move on to an actual vote on an actual scummy person or at least support why I am scummy for doing what I did.
I'm glad that you see it that way, it's a game after all and there is no need to make an personal issue out of it. No offense meant nor taken. And the vote was to just to vent off frustration sorry about that.
##Unvote
##Vote: Kiro
To press for the clarification.
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Checking back in. Let me read back up.
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First of all, Bard, Kiro, ShoeCat, everyone gather around, group hugs. <^_^> Shadoweh's still alive, we don't need all this hostility between us and the trolling and the counter-trolling, you were all being naughty but we have good information to look at now, so don't fight for the sake of fighting, okay? It's distracting. And.. Kiro, I'd be really upset if you did that. People get heated and stupid gambits come and go. I don't see how this is a burning bridges DIE FOREVER kind of a thing, let's all just get back to playing mafia, okay?
I think I'll post this now before I continue trying to make words related to the game. I'm not really happy unless everyone is having fun, so stop not enjoying spending time together. >:<
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Suddenly, 4 hours later! I like distractions too much. =w=
Regarding Bard's fake vig, it may just be me being biased knowing for sure, but it was obviously fake, and at the least, not going to kill upon the game starting. And I even find his following actions erring on the townie side. The whole point was to generate discussion and he followed up on this by attempting twice to get more people in on the discussion. So yeah, he looks townier to me.
But I don't like the line he made saying that the confirmation phase time could be subtracted from D1, as that gives less real time for hunting.
Regarding Dormio, I don't actually find him to be scum right now. I have a hard time buying into his scum intent. I consider him null for the time being. But actual hunting had better start soon because all I see is response to questions and throwaway comments with a generally weak case based on a "vibe." He's bad, but I don't find it scum bad.
Schezo, I find some disconnect and a little fencesitting on his opinion regarding Kiro. In the same paragraph in which you call him townier looking, you add at the end that you don't want to touch him until a flip? This looks like a way to set up a case for later, but not for now? I would like some clarification on this, because, as of right now, you have the wiggle room to go back and forth between an opinion of him based on a vague statement, which I don't like in town. What kind of flips?
His thing about Dormio looks really weak, as it is unoriginal, restating a lot of things, and does not explain how he is scummy and scum motivated, instead of just bad, and gives the feeling of being able to move his vote there later in the future if he needs it.
##Vote: Schezo
Chaore seems to be punishing bad play, but his train of thought seems logical enough that I won't make a big deal about it for now. I would like scum opinions on people other than the arguably easy cases of Dormio and PX.
To me, PX was being bad, but not scum bad to me. His pushing of his case recently, especially with the presence of other, arguably easier, wagons to get on give me townier vibes.
Then PX votes LLD is urgh and null once more, and Dorian is voting Bard for being a headache? Uhhh, other people and why Bard is scum for another reason than fake vig? If that's really what you think he's scum for, then are there any reactions that stand out to you at all?
Cut by Shoulder Parrot
Uh, are you clearing Bard or what or I have no idea what you're doing.
Welp, guess I'm going to get this first post of the day out there.
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Right so, the big was fake, and so the information based on it is null.
I didn't like Shadoweh's reaction to being shot, because I thought she would be the kind of person Who would freak out if someone shot her on the first page of the game. It didn't seem all that genuine to me, but I'm no longer willing to make a case on it.
I can't tell if PX is being horrid again, or if he's actually opportunistic scum. He's hoping around on wagons like a frog. I would suggest that a real vig be left to take care of him, and that we focus out lynching somewhere else.
Unvote; Vote: Schezo
That exchange you had with UK a page or so back was awkward, and I don't think you ever answered her questions. Would you please do that for me?
@UK: I'm no longer of the opinion that we can determine Bard's alignment from the shot, by I still have a massive -twitch- about Shadoweh.
@Bard; Your answer to Uk's question was pretty bad. You stated that you were giving up on Kiro'a wagon, and searching for another. I made one post at the time you had voted me. You didn't react at ALL to that post. You never mentioned it or anything, or even attempted to determine my alignment from it. What suddenly sprang to mind as "scum" about that post? I assume that your vote means you assume I am scum based SOLELY on that post, soI'm interested in hearing this answer.
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OK. So...let me get this straight Schezo. I make logical sense. But...you don't see the case on Kiro. I am voting Kiro, and find him scum for the way he's attacking me. Further, my "logical" proposal was that pages 2 through 5 matter, even in the case of a gambit. So, what are you saying?
Secondly, you think Durrmio is bad logicking it up. Do you think his bad logic makes him scum?
Thirdly, I don't follow the case on Huh what. Could you elucidate it concisely for me? Tell me what posts are precisely scum intended, and why. It feels like you have inflated your case with "weird" stuff that's mostly null.
To be more specific, I mean these questions.
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Was I being hostile, Shadoweh? A little to PX but as far as I can tell I'm chill with Bard and my issues with Kiro more stem from him possibly being scum. I didn't think I was fighting with him.
Dorian's vote for Kiro should have more elaboration because I really don't get where it's coming from at the moment.
HH's post looks solid.
@LLD: Has Schezo posted since I asked him questions? Also, Shadoweh is...probably town. I have a reason to believe this. Not sure what to make of Bard at the moment, waiting to see how he reacts to you.
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Also if anyone is to blame for unpleasantness it would be me since I uh, overreacted just a little to what Bard did. So yeah. Anyways!
Hourai it has been like four hours, post something you little red doll. You have a grand total of nothing for us to look at. If you have something post it now and just post more later, we need SOMETHING to look at now. Wow you cut me by posting and now I have to read it. >:( I totally can't tell what you think after reading that. Can you add a post just summarizing who you think is scummy looking right now?
UK, while you're busy bashing on PX, could you answer this question instead?
UK: If you are reaction fishing and your 100% Bard!scum feeling is fake, then my entire case is invalidated. Which was pretty much why I didn't like it. But I'll let that go for now.... Anyways, you said you have reasons why Bard is scum that's not vig. Is that real or not? If yes, then state them.
I think you've bashed on people who voted you long enough for now, what do you think of Chaore and Hourai? And a little bit. I honestly don't think PX deserve the deriding you're giving him right now for trying to push a case on you, it doesn't sound that bad to me, even if I'm not as certain of bad vibes from you as before.
I will throw in that I'd like to see if LLD actually follows up on her amazing case on me before attacking her, but the post alone was awful reasoning. I would like her to answer my favorite question about the hot scum Shadoweh on scum Bard gambit action she proposed. Why would scum DO that?
STOP CUTTING ME! I.. what?
I didn't like Shadoweh's reaction to being shot, because I thought she would be the kind of person Who would freak out if someone shot her on the first page of the game. It didn't seem all that genuine to me, but I'm no longer willing to make a case on it.
This sentence doesn't make sense. You thought I would be the kind of person who would freak out. I freaked out. Why am I scum? I have more posts then this you can look at. Do any of them supplement your suspicions?
I don't think Dormio has posted yet! He should tell me about everyone and who he thinks is scum when he gets back. :)
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You didn't freak out...?
Your next post was a vote and calmly posting reads... I thought.
Show me where you freaked out, and I'll retract it etc.
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I'm pretty sure I answered that question. By the fact I'm not voting or even implying I think Bard is scum in any way. And in fact have him as a town read?
I'd think that would answer things on it's own.
And no, PX's case on me is awful, the fact you think it has any merit is depressing. But I'll leave it at that.
@LLD: Pretty much every post was Shadoweh feeling incredibly demotivated about getting jerkvigged by Bard...
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You know how my brain sometimes does that thing where it suddenly stops working? Yeah, it's doing that right now. For those that don't know (since we have a couple new people here) for almost a year now I've had constant headaches and other attention and mental issues that have left me in a state of what I consider constant derp. Sometimes, it gets worse and I quite literally turn into a drooling idiot that can't even control her own limbs. I can still read the game, so it's not quite as bad as it was in Zombies, so I don't think I'll have to replace out. Just a heads up.
I'll make a real content post later. I need a while to eat and then to read some things.
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I'm pretty sure I answered that question. By the fact I'm not voting or even implying I think Bard is scum in any way. And in fact have him as a town read?
I'd think that would answer things on it's own.
And no, PX's case on me is awful, the fact you think it has any merit is depressing. But I'll leave it at that.
@LLD: Pretty much every post was Shadoweh feeling incredibly demotivated about getting jerkvigged by Bard...
Demotivated wasn't what I was expecting, and what I was -twitching- about.
I expected yelling and WORDS.
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Eh, it's about what I *would* expect from her. I mean, seriously, why bother if you get shot by page 1? I'm not even sure I'd bother if it had already happened.
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Can you add a post just summarizing who you think is scummy looking right now?
Schezo, as my first, where my vote is and for stated reasons.
Chaore, as a distant second, for objectively taking only easy cases.
Somewhere far off, Dorian, for I have no idea what he's thinking, or his thought process, or his priorities, or anything, which I find anti-town, but more posts would easily clear this up.
That's all for now, I'm afraid.
Gonna get this response out there.
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@Bard; Your answer to Uk's question was pretty bad. You stated that you were giving up on Kiro'a wagon, and searching for another. I made one post at the time you had voted me. You didn't react at ALL to that post.
Are you sure about that? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659464.html#msg659464)
I assume that your vote means you assume I am scum based SOLELY on that post, soI'm interested in hearing this answer.
Are you sure about that? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660102.html#msg660102)
LLD's actions struck me as weird, and much more than a vote calling for her lynch this is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion.
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Neither of these state that I am scum.
Though, I realize I worded my statement poorly. I meant to aya that no where do you ever talk about my alignment.
So you're saying your vote is a pressure vote?
This is implying that you had no other scum reads to be voting?
Who's scum Bard?
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Oh, and Hourai is town. Bro-est of bros.
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UK(160 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659866.html#msg659866)):
1. I agree with you on every front but your Kiro case on how you make logical sense. I didn't say pages 2-5 didn't matter, I agreed that they were incomplete. I would like for you to explain your Kiro case for me again since I can't really read what's there.
2. Yes, I believe Durrmio's back logic makes him scum.
3.
64 is bad because at that point, by taking a large part of the game away from everyone, huh what scum is essentially making the few who posted, make bullshit cases on each other over nothing. People naturally comment on what is there, and when there is nothing, people will either post weak cases on each other at that point or else null reads. Yes, by 64, Bard was the main thing going on and taking that away when few people had posted and may not have had solid reads yet was bad.
Obvious trend is bad because he states things he considers obvious after the fact that they happen and leaves him room to be vague like he is in 59 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659077.html#msg659077). I'm reading this and I cannot see how he can later call it, "obviously it was a gambit by Bard". 144 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659608.html#msg659608) is again just justification for the Bard vig, removal of a major talking point, which I disagree with. I already explained how forcing a handful of players to make cases on each other when they could have null reads/ not see scummy is bad and attacking them for that is a silly easy thing for scum HW to attack them for.
Bard(169 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659987.html#msg659987)): The first quote goes hand in hand with huh what trying to get everyone to attack each other over nothing if we hypothetically take your gambit out of the equation and I already explained why this is bad. And I don't understand how it is disconnect to attack someone who had talked as opposed to say just Hourai for not saying anything yet. (edit: oh wait a minute)
Kiro stating the obvious when I got the feeling that the rest of the game was missing it while scum could easily just be sitting back still going, "Yep, they're falling over themselves backwards". Yes I think there are scum in the first 7. Second question after, I know I saw the first 7 treating each other as if they were the only ones playing and asking each other to make cases that could be weak, null or non existent when still there are people who haven't checked in is reaching a bit. If people have found a case and person that seems scummy, by all means go for it, just keep the tunnel vision off, which some people are already putting on. Demanding that people make cases when they could read something different, not see scummy stuff is bad. I don't see how it's disconnect that I find someone scummy now as opposed to opening reads on people who were being demanded to make a case.
I don't think people realized to treat the 2-5 pages as incomplete and telling people that, "hey, people are willingly not posting right now, you can't treat this as normal game" seemed like a townie thing for Kiro to do. His logic seems sound with stuff like:
No, weird is not always scummy. Weird means it's a point that needs public discussion. And no, I don't want to lynch someone who I think is Town. I said that I could see UK as Townie doing what she did. I'm not flat out saying that I have a Town read on her. Here's my caps in return: DO NOT MISREP ME.
Makes clear concise sense and getting misreped makes me question how solid the case on him can really be since I still don't get UK's case on Kiro either and would like for her to clarify what it is exactly.
His case on UK is pretty clear and concise and I can understand the points he's making, and the rest of him seems to be actively scumhunting as well as responding to points in a calm and collected way that people are raising against him, so I really have no complains about him.
LLD: Yes, I'll answer everyone at once, see above.
Hourai cut: I can't read Kiro for shit when I play games with him, he always looks town. I'm getting town reads on him now and I would like to see someone die/ flip and see how their connection to Kiro may change that.
And after everyone has smashed the Durrmio case to kingdom come, I can't post an original read on him. Durrmio bad logic is scummy! Fuck. I agree he is scum, just not as much as Huh what right now, which needs addressing.
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It's the fact that Kiro has mostly had tunnel vision on me for being "weird", not scummy. I'm not getting a strong scumhunty vibe from there. I'm getting more of a "Let's see what will stick" vibe.
Anyway, how does your fence feel, Schezo. Comfy?
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As for what's happened between this post and last post:
@Kiro: 'slong as "troll Bard" is no longer your objective I'm cools. You're making me sound like the bad guy.
@UK: Hmm, I just read back on Durrmio. I agree that he is not putting in as much effort as I *thought* he was. I realise the exchange starting here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659023.html#msg659023) is the one you reference when you mean he wanted to get me lynched based on whether or not I had actually vigged, it being an anti-town move to him. I glossed over this before because my own view is that no move is strictly anti-town unless the intentions behind it are, but I ever assume people look at the action rather than the intention.
I also realise that Dormio calls you on confirmation bias (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659125.html#msg659125), but at the same time, says that she is likely to flip town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659066.html#msg659066)... thus affirming what you thought at the time as well. This double standard raises my frown and I would enjoy an explanation for this disconnect in beliefs.
Dorian, who do you think are scum, and what clarification do you want from Kiro? He already promised Real Content on his next post, why do you feel a need to park your vote on him? Right now it looks like you're stalling for time to actually do anything, and while I can sympathise with a ragevote on me, I cannot accept that it renders you inable to post any reads on anyone.
Shadoweh is unreadable so far. Shadoweh, who do you think are scum, so we can start giving blood for the blood god?
Hanged Hourai is surprisingly well-worded. I do want to know why he labels PX and Dormio the "easy cases". I think you're downplaying the Dormio wagon as being easy more than it actually is, what "easy" wagons could PX have jumped onto? Why are you defending him anyway? Most of the post reads fine to me, but I'd like these questions answered.
Cut by words, responding in next post.
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Neither of these state that I am scum.
Though, I realize I worded my statement poorly. I meant to aya that no where do you ever talk about my alignment.
You never mentioned it or anything, or even attempted to determine my alignment from it
You mentioned, explicitly in your next line, that I "never mentioned it or anything". This wasn't so much as an accusation as it was simply pointing things out, but I grow wary of your immediate attempts to cover it up, rather than just own up to having missed the post.
So you're saying your vote is a pressure vote?
This is implying that you had no other scum reads to be voting?
Who's scum Bard?
Yes, and I very much want you to finally respond to the questions asked. Attempting to diffuse the need to by turning the wheel to me is uninteresting. As such, I have no other scum reads to be voting except for you. You're scum. My case on you is pressing hard-to-follow logic, refusing to explain your reasoning, attempts to diffuse needs to answer by attempting to direct heat to the attacking party, over-defensive excuse making to what could have been explained as a simple oversight and misrepresentation of my reasons to no longer pursue a Kiro case. HINT: It's not because I have "given up on a Kiro wagon".
Answer the questions now.
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Bard has pointed out something interesting that makes me uncomfortable with LLD. I look forward to her answers.
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Pretty sure I answered the question.
Maybe I'm not the only one who's having a hard time reading?
Your question was about why I thought Shadoweh was scum potentially? Lack of RAEG at you for the vig.
Your fake vig is generally null, now that I think about it.
Any other questions you want answered?
Oh, and by "never mentioned it" I mean "never mentioned anything about how my posts affected my alignment" until now.
Only now, when PRESSED do you commit to calling me scum. It's interesting, but it's fitting with the rest of your play this game, so I'm going to treat it like I'm currently treating your vigshot.
UK, I'm going to trust you on Shadoweh for the moment, if you have something that you really think makes Shadoweh town, I'll keep with it.
Schezo's response was satisfactory.
Unvote; Vote: huh what
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Vote Count
UncertainKitten (2) - Kiro, Dormio
Kiro (2) - Kitten4u, Dorian
Dormio (4) - Huhwhat, Chaore, Shadoweh, UncertainKitten
Huhwhat (1) - Schezo, LLD
Lady LambaDelta (2) - Bardiche, PX
Schezo (1) - Hourai
14 alive, 8 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 17 hours
Not voting - Zakeri
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Bardiche's actual gambit is a null tell, in my opinion. I do, however, believe that town is slightly more likely to attempt to end the RVS than scum, since scum have to draw attention to themselves in the process, and if their attempt goes wrong, it's usually not worth the pay-off. I also feel his posting and his opinions have been townie enough.
Posts #28 to #58 all came before my accusations of coasting, and each of the meatier ones could have been analyzed for scummitude. Just because they spawned from Bard's gambit doesn't mean that they're the exact same thing - my qualms were with people who were choosing to focus on voting Bard solely because of his gambit and really no one else. Even ragging on Bard for something other than his gambit would have been acceptable, but everyone seemed to just choose to vote him for having potentially shot somebody.
So uh, why am I scum again? You keep making nitpicks about my posts, but you haven't explained how my actions have scum intent.
Who sees something wrong with this post?
I spy with my little eye, a really terrible last line.
@Huh What: Please explain how people were "nitpicking".
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@LLD: What makes HW's posts different from mine asking the exact same thing? And Bard's earlier? In fact, I'm fairly sure I've accused PX of nitpicking my posts without finding scum intent.
Why the double standard?
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Ergh, needed to go run a bit and cool off. Head's a bit messed up.
Bard: You're not the bad guy. This is Mafia and I overreacted in a bad way. Maybe my last post felt like I was reaching out for attention or some stupid shit like that. Me being petty, selfish, stubborn or all of the above. I think it'd be great if you and I could talk on TS after the game is over. And I'm not going to troll you or anyone in this game anymore; I can't do it right anyways so I'll quit while I'm behind.
Anyways, time to reread.
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Triple posting is town etc.
I can understand Schezo a little better since his latest post, but there are still some things I want to call to question.
First of all, we have differing views of Huh What's actions. I'm an idiot neanderthaler now, why does Huh What's "let's look at people notBard" incite people to attack eachother over nothing?
getting misreped makes me question how solid the case on him can really be
I call it weird because I can still see you as Townie doing all this.
Kiro never calls UK scummy. He calls her "weird"; he follows up by saying the above quote. How is it a "misrepresentation" to misunderstand this as him meaning that "UK is town, but weird town"? A misunderstanding is not the same as misrepresentation, and just following off of Kiro's words rather than making your own observations doesn't do you favours.
His case on UK is pretty clear and concise and I can understand the points he's making
My biggest problem here is that Kiro doesn't really have an outright "UK is scum" case. He says nearly literally that he needs more interaction to determine whether she remains his top scum choice or not, and not once claimed his vote was on definite scum.
Gah, cut again.
While I read LLD's response to me, please be so kind as to rehash why Huh What is bad and why we should be voting him, preferably with explanations why your interpretations of his actions are correct (or why you feel them to be), and why you feel that the case on Kiro is weak based solely on an arguable misrepresentation.
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Capth replaces Dorian efffective immediately. Dorian may be required to replace back into the slot when capth is away from 25/06.
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Pretty sure I answered the question.
Maybe I'm not the only one who's having a hard time reading?
These are the questions I submitted, and the answers I found in your posts. I trust you to correct me when I err.
Lambdadelta, why is Shadoweh's reaction scummy? Answer: It didn't fit how you thought Shadoweh would react.
What changed between the first line and the last line that you want to vote? Answer: I can't find it.
How does Shadoweh scum correlate to Bardiche scum, given the "distancing" would be an act of Shadoweh's to implicate me? Answer: I can't find it.
Reason out why a scum flip implicates scumBard, how a town flip implicates scumBard and how no flip implicates scumShadoweh. Response: I can't find it.
This is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion. Response: Schezo has an awkward exchange with UK, and he didn't answer her questions.
Hourai is town for being a bro.
Shadoweh is twitch.
New question: What about Schezo's exchange with UK is awkward, and how does this make him scum?
Why do you maintain a massive twitch over Shadoweh? Answer: You expected YELLING and WORDS, when Shadoweh claims she was pretty livid.
I'm calling you scum because you're attempting to evade answering anything in favour of attempting to push me into divulging "who are scum?" when I have been pretty open about my current thoughts. It's not townie to be avoiding answering questions, or being over-defensive to a simple oversight. This also happens when Shadoweh claims she was pretty demotivated and upset over getting fakevigged: you defend by saying that that wasn't what you expected, you expected RAEG. You keep backpedaling from what you really meant, and to top it off:
Oh, and by "never mentioned it" I mean "never mentioned anything about how my posts affected my alignment" until now.
A third revision, except:
You never mentioned it or anything, or even attempted to determine my alignment from it
You explicitly said "never mentioned it", where "it" refers to the post, as your sub-clause is a mention that I never attempted to derive alignment from it. That's a trap statement, there was no alignment to derive from your singular post at the time, particularly because we were not armed with your reasoning yet.
We still aren't.
Verdict: Lambda is scum.
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Anyway, what Bard pointed out is she's engaging in her favorite tell that she uses in mafia on MS. "Why me instead of X". She didn't have the X before. I still want Dormio dead, but an LLD lynch would not make me feel bad.
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Starting the reread from Schezo's #159: Seeing you putting forth the case on HW kind of makes sense from my initial suspicion of HW. I think that also explains why I really didn't like UK much. I felt UK gave HW a clear with my earlier question to compare the difference between HW and Zakeri. But I'm not really sure that HW is actually giving a Town read to UK in #82 like Schezo claims. Which is why I'm getting a bit hung up on my UK case. Part of the case I want to make on UK is that she's being a buddy with HW. However, it's not good practice to push a scumpair so early. And looking at her individually, things continued to make less sense for a Scum UK. That being said, I understand your case on HW and will think about it more after I finish rereading. No recent posts from HW either. I'd bump him up as more suspicious than UK now.
As for Schezo himself, I can understand Schezo's points and the so called fence-sitting that he has on HW vs Dormio and Kiro vs UK seems realistically Town enough to me. A quick question to Schezo: how does Dormio fit into things if HW is Scum?
PX reads like lazy. Votes UK, has to be convinced that UK's Bard suspicion was fake and throws the second vote on LLD? Despite it all, I don't see how the vote on LLD fits into a Scum PX intent. He has none of his own weight behind that vote so if LLD actually flips today, I think people would be on PX regardless of what LLD flipped as. Feels more Townie.
Dormio needs more content and to explain his stances better. I could see why people are pegging him as Scum and UK being Town as a result for trying to push UK for minimally explained reasons. What's getting me hung up on Dormio is that his reactions to the early vig gambit seem like genuine Townie rage at Bard for what's going on. His complaints about #46 seems like Townie effort (his #66) to look into how UK could be Scum and builds on his eventual real Day 1 case on UK. Considering how vague and (for lack of better word) dishonest UK was about her reads, I think Dormio didn't really have Scum intent in his attacks. Waiting for his latest cases.
The UK case has pretty much dried up for today. Her early actions match that of her Town play and her overall questioning has been reasonable, even in regards to the case on me. The case on her was never very strong, so yes, I felt I got pigeonholed into having to make a case on someone I wasn't very confident about being Scum and that all of the first 7 are in fact Townies. I had to work and find something, got the little bit on UK and HW, and then it led to my troubles. How I should have started the Day was just to say, I'm not feeling Scum in any one of the first 7, state why, and that I would rather wait to see what the later 7 have to say. Which is hypocritical because I am one of the later 7 as well. Hence the throwing off of my game and my overzealous rage at Bard.
LLD: Getting hung up primarily on how you expected Shadoweh to react to the fake vig is odd. Perhaps a bit lazy. And pushing that forth as a case is also weak because Shadoweh has no way to objectively defend it. There isn't much else to your day's activity. She's blatantly bad about some things like "Hourai is town," doesn't make sense from a Scum point of view. The HW vote is... agreeable in a sense. My read on her is she's lazy. And her initial thing regarding Shadoweh is weird to start the day with. But almost a little too crazy to be sneaky Scum that she had every opportunity to be with how the Day began. I'm not sure she's the right one; answering Bard's questions will determine if I'm ok with her lynch.
So here I go, contradicting myself all over again. I can go for the HW lynch today. In your #136, there's a very generic statement calling Dormio scum. PX point is alright, but I will disagree since I currently read PX as Town. And you deferring to Bard and UK answering your hypothetical scenario is lazy at best. I still don't know why YOU used the words that you used. The only other real point to note is that he doesn't really address me at all after I had made my initial case other than that whole sarcasm thing. You didn't really seem to state an opinion about me or UK after that, instead spending time replying to Shadoweh about how you're trying to get people to comment about reactions to Bard's gambit away from the gambit itself. I'm basing my case on HW as to how lazy his case on Dormio is, a bit of bystandering during the whole vig ordeal and questioning, but lack of giving hard opinions as his real Day 1 case shows. I think Schezo covered the intent part fairly well: that by asking people to consider other people besides Bard, that it wasn't a fair question to ask because half the people hadn't commented ingame yet. It's obvious anyone respnding would limit their opinions to only the first 7 and that's another reason why I disliked UK straight up answering HW's #64 scenario without considering the later 7 people. He needs to show up, restate why he wants Dormio lynched and address what's going on in game now.
##Unvote UncertainKitten
##Vote huh what
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Sleep is for the transient people.
Sorry for not being around for the latter half of yesterday.
Anyway.
@UK 172: I hadn't parsed Bardiche's vig shot at the time, seeing as how I got cut by it.
Second thing about me, I was still thoroughly confused, but I was leaning more towards not-town.
I was entertaining the notion that Bardiche might have been a SK. I tend to go crazy when I'm tired.
"Playing it safe?" Well that's what I think you were doing.
@Shadoweh 168: Thoughts about you?
I don't think that you're scum You don't have a mic, ergo, you're not interesting to me.
Thoughts about Kitten4u?
I really don't like how one (out of two) of the points she used against me in her original case on me was that I didn't utilize my non-existent vote in the confirmation stage when she didn't even participate within said phase of the game.
I really don't know how to word this right, but you know, if you're going to call me out on gameplay in the confirmation stage, maybe it would have been better if you hadn't stated your disapproval of us posting during that time?
I mean, you ask us "why are you posting", meaning that you believe all gameplay aspects to be invalid, right? Yet you're the one that tries to call me out for not using fakevotes.
Bleh, words how do they work.
She hasn't said much after that, outside of her spat with Kiro.
In summation, I don't like Kitten4u and am leaning towards scum-aligned for her.
@Bardiche 207: If you had really shot like that, you would have had the lowest chance possible to hit scum.
It's just that, the way UK tried to set up your lynch if Shadoweh were to flip town, and the way she went about it made me feel that she knew it would have been guaranteed that Shadoweh would flip town.
Something like that, anyway.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Oh fuck you Kiro.
brb reading.
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More rhetoric, lovely. I appreciate the explanation of your failure to parse the vig shot. I don't like it, but at least I got it out of you.
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@Schezo: I disagree that my question would have caused people to attack others over nothing. At the very least, the attacks would be on the levels of typical ED1 cases. It's not like every single post aside from Bard's gambit was completely perfect.
I think it was pretty obvious why UK looked like the best of the three Bard voters at that point. PX was derping around and Dormio was attacking UK while keeping his vote on the largest wagon.
I never told anybody to ignore Bard's gambit completely or leave it out of discussion, and it irritates me that people keep implying I did so. I never waffled on Bard, either - his actual gambit and his choice to end the RVS are different things in my mind.
What about Bard's posting and opinions is townie to you?
They seem logical to me and read fluently. It's obvious not a perfect town read, considering that it's D1 of all things. I just think he's more townie than not.
@HW 59: Just want a clarification. Do you think Dormio attacking me but voting Bard has any relation to my alignment? This isn't very clear.
It suppose it could, but that was not what was going through my head when I wrote the post. I was mainly seeing it as "Dormio is attacking other people while staying on the wagon that currently has the largest chance of going through".
@Huh What: Please explain how people were "nitpicking".
"People"? The only person voting me at that time was Shadoweh. You act as if I was a major target or something.
Regardless, as far as I can tell, Shadoweh's case consisted of: - huh what attacked the people reacting to Bard's stunt despise not giving a full-on reaction himself
- huh what accused people of coasting when nothing else had happened yet (not true)
- Apparently something that she needed to know my opinions on Bard to solve?
Only one of these things is scummy, and it is also a misrep. The first point looked more like Gotcha Games to me than a legitimate point, since I should not have needed to react to Bard myself to pass judgment on those who did. Her question about my opinions on Bard still baffles me, since as far as I can tell they did not actually affect her case, and it seemed like she was trying to find something else to hang me on with that question. I do not know how not having entirely clear opinions on Bard would be scummy, since there was still evidence towards my actual take on the matter and he was clearly not a major target of mine at that point regardless. It's not like I had no clear opinions at all.
I still prefer a Dormio lynch above all else. A majority of his game has been spent tunneling on UK over weak points and invalid conspiracy theories and yet refusing to let go. He seems to be focusing on her way too much, which seems odd considering how weak his jabs at her are. I've been weary of people who come across as making shotgun attacks by being nitpicky rather than actually posting solid cases this game in general, and Dormio has possibly been the most notable example of this so far. If one ISOs his posts, it becomes pretty evident that while he has a large amount of points against UK, none of them are particularly overwhelming or convincing. UK has already defended herself pretty thoroughly so I don't intend to go through and attack Dormio's points, but as far as I can tell they pretty much speak for themself. It seems to me like Dormio is scum who made a weak earlygame case and is clinging to it while failing to provide substantial content regarding other players.
I dislike Shadoweh and PX too, as their initial votes were weak even for ED1 cases, and their later voteswitches come completely out of nowhere and seem rather out of place. It looks a lot like they just gave up on their past cases without actually explaining that they were backing down. As far as I am concerned, they are pretty much in the same boat right now. PX looks worse to me on paper since his Lambdadelta case makes just as little sense to me as the one on UK, but my gut tells me that Shadoweh is scummier because her switch to Dormio is seriously reminding me of when she backed off onto Sect during ED1 of Balanced Game of Mafia. I would be willing to switch to either, though, and I am not sure why so many people are giving Shadoweh free passes (really, guys, it's not like scum!Shadoweh couldn't have possibly been nervous about a town!Bard shooting her).
Why are people suddenly calling Hourai town again?
Cut by Kiro and Dormio. I guess if I wasn't a notable wagon earlier in the day I am now, sigh. I'll respond to Kiro later, was about to go do other things.
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@HW: Shadoweh's reaction to the vig shot isn't why I'm clearing her, actually.
Also, what's wrong with Hourai?
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Oh. Derp.
I don't think anything is wrong with Hourai, I just don't understand why Lambda would suddenly go out of the way to say that Hourai is town. He looks more null to me as is. (It also now occurs to me that Bard was quoting Lambda and was not actually saying that Hourai was town himself.)
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@HW: But, I believe I *have* said Hourai is probably town. So why take issue with LLD and not me saying that?
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All I recall you saying is that his post is solid, which in itself would at least be more explanatory than just "Hourai looks like town".
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You might be right. But yes, I have a town read on Hourai right now.
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It takes time to get infinite townie motivation back when you get shot down, hold your ballot boxes! >:( You know what I've realized? Day 1 is full of walls of text.
huh what: 'logical and reads fluently' isn't a reason to clear someone as town or scum, you're just complimenting his posting style. All three of those things you've listed were scummy. I fail to see how you ignoring the big thing happening and shooting at startled targets is accusing you of a gotcha game. I find it more likely that as scum you would avoid making an opinion on the OMG VIG SHOT because it would make you less of a target. Shooter vs shootee, as it were. Asking about your opinion on Bard had a clear town motive, I wanted to see what you thought of him and your reasoning for getting there so I could read your pattern. It annoys me you would accuse me of questioning you to fish for something to hang you by when after you answered I stopped voting for you. I seriously dislike your case on me, and seperately I think it makes you look scummy to me again.
I have no idea what I looked like from the outside when I voted Sect, but are you saying my vote on Dormio looks bad because you think Dormio is scum and I'm tapping my partner? I'm pretty sure it was the jump OFF of Sect that was horrible. I see no reason to stop bussing Dormio for townie cred right now. I'd like clarification of this.
Dormio: You appear to have hidden your thoughts about K4u under my name. Your refuting of what K4u said on you isn't based around disproving how scummy your action was, but trying to prove she did it too and worse and therefore it was okay when you did it. No, it wasn't, and your defense is scummy as hell. And I think Kitten4u just might have told us why she hasn't posted again yet and it's a stupid point to hold against her.
ShoeCat, why are you sniping? You've been posting tiny tidbits of wisdom, can you explain your LLD read to me further? I don't think I'm processessing the 'Me instead of X' thing properly. My brain still hurts, explain it like I'm four years old.
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@Shadoweh: Hidden? I thought I was being fairly straightforward.
I fail to see how I can defend myself from Kitten4u's accusations of not using my non-existent vote other than saying I believed that the action was moot at the time.
What I'm holding against her is the fact that she asked us why we were talking in the confirmation phase, which (unless I'm horribly mistaken) means that she also believed all gameplay factors to be invalid at that point, yet she holds the fact that I didn't change my vote that doesn't exist from Bardiche to UncertainKitten.
Also, what's with the sudden lashing out at me supposedly attacking Kitten4u for not posting again? If you read, you'd see that the last comment was about the fact that she's said very little outside of her non-vote case on me and the small spat with Kiro that I still need to reread.
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So ITT UK calls me out on a tell that I use extensively, but IGNORES IT WHEN I POINT IT OUT ABOUT HUH WHAT .
And it was pretty obvious too. I pointed out the line for you.
Tell me UK, speaking of "double standards" here's a few questions for you:
1) Where did I ask "why me"?
2) Why did you ignore huh what's blatent use of this tell, yet call me out for it?
(Oh and about YOUR double standard comment; I actually didn't notice that you did that, but you're just as bad for doing it)
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All I recall you saying is that his post is solid, which in itself would at least be more explanatory than just "Hourai looks like town".
"His posting is solid" is basically the same as saying nothing. Obviously if I'm calling him town this early on, it will be based on, you know, his posting.
:roll:
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Question for Dormio. When did UK become scummier than Bard to you? Can you either link to the post or give general post number range if you don't remember?
I'm going to get a massage and hope that helps my headache. I'll comment on everything else once I get back.
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@Kitten4u: It started nagging at me after #49, then I changed my mind after Bledibleh posted. (#70)
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Your pressing of Bard reads a lot like "Why me?" The only thing missing is the instead of X, which gets filled later with your thing about HW that basically makes no sense.
I don't see any instance of HW using the tell.
That said, it's an awful tell. Only reason I'm using it on you is because you're the one who often uses it. People's tells tend to apply most to themselves.
@Shadoweh: The why not X tell is one LLD uses with dubious results on MS, where someone is under fire and saying "But X did the same thiiiiiiingggg! Why not THEEEEEMMMM". Oh, huh, would you look at what LLD is doing right the fuck now :O
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Your pressing of Bard reads a lot like "Why me?" The only thing missing is the instead of X, which gets filled later with your thing about HW that basically makes no sense.
I don't see any instance of HW using the tell.
That said, it's an awful tell. Only reason I'm using it on you is because you're the one who often uses it. People's tells tend to apply most to themselves.
@Shadoweh: The why not X tell is one LLD uses with dubious results on MS, where someone is under fire and saying "But X did the same thiiiiiiingggg! Why not THEEEEEMMMM". Oh, huh, would you look at what LLD is doing right the fuck now :O
By your logic UK, I should be stating that your use of Meta in this case makes you scum, because you hate meta so much?
Your argument is very weak, and something you have never advocated to my knowledge before.
I can't help but wonder what the motivation behind it is.
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@Shadoweh: Hidden? I thought I was being fairly straightforward.
I mean how it's literally right under 'thoughts about Shadoweh'. I thought you were asking me about K4U at first. I supose before I go all chainsaw defending I should make sure I like her post first.
Also, what's with the sudden lashing out at me supposedly attacking Kitten4u for not posting again? If you read, you'd see that the last comment was about the fact that she's said very little outside of her non-vote case on me and the small spat with Kiro that I still need to reread.
Because Shadoweh x Kitten4u forever Because you're implying she has little content because she hasn't spammed a thousand times and you completely ignore any of the content in her post that didn't have the word Dormio before it. Is there anything actually wrong with her post? Can you point out anything besides the one morsel you latched onto to disagree with? Whether she disliked people posting before the game started or not, I think it would be more anti-town if she pretended that phase never happened, don't you?
Kitten4u: I think all I want from you is an update of your case on Kiro after his explanation (he was trolling), as well as reads on other people, especially Schezo. At least half of your post is a love note to me about how townie I reacted (why thank you <3) but I'd like to know more about what you think about them other people.
People I've forgotten exist: Zakeri, Chaore. Zak I'm pretty sure hasn't posted since the game started and should have been prodded by now. Chaore posted a decent amount of reads, so I'd just like him to get back in here and update his opinion on PX now that PX has posted more :words:
ShoeCat: Oh. Uh, but I'm doing that right now with Dormio. Literally, that exact tell, like, look at what he's saying about Kitten4u and his actions. I'm personally more bothered by how she seems to have completely ignored Bardiche's last post with some questions and a case she should probably respond to. HEY LAMBDA, SOMEONE MADE A CASE ON YOU THAT YOU SHOULD PROBABLY RESPOND TO AND ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT.
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Bardiche's actual gambit is a null tell, in my opinion. I do, however, believe that town is slightly more likely to attempt to end the RVS than scum, since scum have to draw attention to themselves in the process, and if their attempt goes wrong, it's usually not worth the pay-off. I also feel his posting and his opinions have been townie enough.
Posts #28 to #58 all came before my accusations of coasting, and each of the meatier ones could have been analyzed for scummitude. Just because they spawned from Bard's gambit doesn't mean that they're the exact same thing - my qualms were with people who were choosing to focus on voting Bard solely because of his gambit and really no one else. Even ragging on Bard for something other than his gambit would have been acceptable, but everyone seemed to just choose to vote him for having potentially shot somebody.
So uh, why am I scum again? You keep making nitpicks about my posts, but you haven't explained how my actions have scum intent.
The bolded is where it exists, for the kittens who are blind.
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Hello everyone!
I?m still completing my LLD and Huh What rereads, but in the mean time, I do have some reads on K4U and Schezo.
K4U:
##Vote Kiro
Your entire case on UK is on stuff that was done during the confirmation phase. This is fine, but why didn't you bother to say any of this when you first posted rather than random voting? Why was seeing Shadoweh's flip/whether or not Bard was lying so important that you would basically not scumhunt until you got it? I'm also not really fond of the attack on HW either, particularly the mention of #77. I thought his next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659124.html#msg659124) clarified what he was doing there very well, so not being able to understand what he meant by it smells a little funny to me.
While attacking Kiro in itself is fine, I find two of the points in your attack on Kiro strange. Namely, I disagree with your reasoning that choosing to wait until we knew whether Bard?s vig was real is scummy, and I disagree with your conclusion that Kiro using a joke vote in the standard joke vote phase is scummy. I understand why you don?t consider it optimal play, but joke voting immediately after the non-standard confirmation phase and wanting to know whether a vig is real or not before commenting on it both strike me as null tells; I myself may have done the joke vote regardless of allignment, and I would definitely have waited on the vig. A lot has happened since that post; could you explain your Kiro vote some more, in light of his play since your vote? Right now, I find you somewhat suspicious.
Schezo:
In your last post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660223.html#msg660223), you talked about the other players a lot. However, you didn?t mention the player you?re currently voting for, Huh What. You?ve posted twice (not including a short, null confirm), and in the only post since your vote you don?t have any follow through on the player you are voting for. Furthermore, it?s all somewhat passive. Yes you?re telling us your opinions on other players, and you tell us their actions are ?bad?, but you aren?t telling us whether you find the players themselves to be town, null, suspicious, or scummy. While I understand not having the best reads on day 1, I don?t know which players from your most recent post you think are suspicious and scummy, and which players you think are town. It give you a lot of flexibility. With the Huh What wagon gaining speed, I would like to hear what you think of his more recent play. I find the lack of commitment on reads, and the lack of follow through on Huh What suspicious.
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I already used meta on Kiro. Might as well not stop now. Don't you hate meta too? Seems you're driving at it too. Looks like this will be a rather meta game~
@Shadoweh: Like pointing it out about Dormio? Well, I am voting him already soooo...
If you meant you were saying "Why not Dormio instead of me", first, I didn't notice that, and second, I'm more comfortable applying the tell to LLD than anyone else because she uses it herself. That implies to me that, as scum, she would engage in said behavior.
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So LSD's reaction is to pretend it doesn't exist. :U That's basically an admittance that everything is true.
So, can I convince the rest of you to lynch her as well? I get the entire vibe and jig about your current cases, but here we have someone who thinks they're too good to respond when called out on scummy actions, and who votes Huh What without ever elucidating reasons. Even PX is better than this, you can surely agree.
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My thought process with the distancing should be pretty clear. A fake vig shot is seen generally as null (that's how I'm treating it). If you shoot Shadoweh as your scum buddy, it provides some small kind of buffer between the two of you. I retracted the logic, but that was my thought at the time.
I no longer am pegging for Schezo. I was worried about some of the things UK asked him (they were my thoughts as well) so I wanted them answered.
Bardiche continues to attack the rhetoric of my one line, even though I have now explained to him several times what I meant. That's his case. Rhetoric attacks. You want me to respond to that? How?
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So LSD's reaction is to pretend it doesn't exist. :U That's basically an admittance that everything is true.
So, can I convince the rest of you to lynch her as well? I get the entire vibe and jig about your current cases, but here we have someone who thinks they're too good to respond when called out on scummy actions, and who votes Huh What without ever elucidating reasons. Even PX is better than this, you can surely agree.
Oh yeah, because I made one post that wasn't directed at your case, and you can jump to this conclusion.
@UK: I like what you said there. Here, let me show it off for you.
"You're using meta too".
So essentially, you didn't answer my attack. Instead, you chose to deflect it away from yourself and not answer to anything.
This is noted.
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@Bard: Well, I remember doing the same in Zombie Apocalypse and I was town, so I can't say it's necessarily scummy. Hmm, did you answer her about why she's scum though? I forget. Just link me the post if you did. Further, I'm fairly sure she DID explain why she though HW was scum. Her reasoning just wasn't that great.
@LLD: Why are you retracting the logic? I mean, it has been illustrated how wrong it is, but I'm curious what caused you to reconsider.
As for "deflecting", uh...no? I'm pointing out that we're both using meta, and that it's not something you can indict for. I'm not sure I entirely understand how it's "deflecting" to say "Hey, look, we're both using meta. This has no bearing on our alignments". Can you tell me how using meta makes me scum, LLD? Without using it yourself?
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Goat Count
Uncertain Kitten (1) - Dormio
Kiro (2) - Kitten4u, Dorian
Dormio (4) - huh what, Chaore, Shadoweh, Uncertain Kitten
huh what (3) - Schezo, LLD, Kiro
Lady Lambadelta (2) - Bardiche, PX
Schezo (1) - Hourai
Not voting: Zakeri
With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in 11.5 hours or so.
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@Bard: Well, I remember doing the same in Zombie Apocalypse and I was town, so I can't say it's necessarily scummy. Hmm, did you answer her about why she's scum though? I forget. Just link me the post if you did. Further, I'm fairly sure she DID explain why she though HW was scum. Her reasoning just wasn't that great.
@LLD: Why are you retracting the logic? I mean, it has been illustrated how wrong it is, but I'm curious what caused you to reconsider.
As for "deflecting", uh...no? I'm pointing out that we're both using meta, and that it's not something you can indict for. I'm not sure I entirely understand how it's "deflecting" to say "Hey, look, we're both using meta. This has no bearing on our alignments". Can you tell me how using meta makes me scum, LLD? Without using it yourself?
Because you have used it yourself, to explain a reason why you suspect me, but your OWN STANCE ON META contradicts this statement.
Your stance on meta is not classified as meta, unless you know it has changed coming into this game.
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That's kind of ludicrous, LLD. When have I said, in this game, that I oppose meta? Please, show me a post where I said "meta is bad". And if it's not in this game, it's meta.
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That's kind of ludicrous, LLD. When have I said, in this game, that I oppose meta? Please, show me a post where I said "meta is bad". And if it's not in this game, it's meta.
UncertainKitten, answer this question for me.
Do you support the use of Meta as the basis for a case?
Say it in red.
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I'm not sure you can count, there's more than one there.
And you're absolutely right, it isn't at all about you ignoring things while claiming you're not ignoring them, or you backpedaling on more than one occassion, or you now voting Huh What without ever communicating your reasons clearly, or you pushing terribad logic to justify tunneling on Shadoweh and I, or you attempting to avoid scrutiny by casting doubt on the one attacking you (once more with misrepresenting what my attack on you entails), refusing to motivate your cases on who are scum, pulling magical town reads out of your high hat (and then reacting with a troll when asked about it), being generally trollish in responses to anything, and stalling from doing anything until pressed, as evident in how long it took between pressure vote and your final poor attempt to continue evading answering any of the questions I started out voting you on, alongside pretending that I am voting you for nothing more than "rhetoric".
How many votes are you looking to gather before you'll finally get that you need to motivate your cases and answer to people's cases on you, especially when your claims about having dealt with it already are proven not to be true?
How I want you to respond is look at the questions I bolded and summarised for your convenience, and respond to all of them to the best of your ability, so as to finally grant the rest of us an insight in why you think the things you think, without trying to insult people, and without attempting to claim you already answered them. Yes? Got it? Go.
@Bard: Well, I remember doing the same in Zombie Apocalypse and I was town, so I can't say it's necessarily scummy. Hmm, did you answer her about why she's scum though? I forget. Just link me the post if you did. Further, I'm fairly sure she DID explain why she though HW was scum. Her reasoning just wasn't that great.
There's a major difference here though: in Zombie Mafiers it was a bullcrap case propagated by scum, but this time, I'm not lying when I say she's been passing off as "I answered all questions, can't you read?!" when she ignored most of them and passed off the entire first post with "Well I thought Shadoweh was gonna RAEG :|". After spending your entire first post going "omg ShadowehxBard scum OTP", I think you should have more to say than just "Well I thought meta". Apparently Shadoweh going "Bard is a fucking asshole" wasn't enough rage.
And yes, her case on HW is terrible. There are plentiful ways to articulate what is bad about him, but first voting and later going, "OK, there is this ooooone liiiiiiine please explain" isn't exactly the paragon excelsior of scumhunting. It's lazy and it smells of quickly attempting to throw the attention to someone else.
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Also, UK, everyone else, for convenience I told Lambda why I voted her twice (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660260.html#msg660260) in this game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660233.html#msg660233).
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@mod Zak needs a prod.
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Bardiche's new case on me consists of discrediting me with Ad Hominem and "your arguments are lazy and stupid".
So, you still have nothing Bard? Good to know.
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At this point, I am no longer using meta
You've claimed you are using the tell on HW. That means, in this game, you believe scum are more likely to use the "why me" tell. In this process, you have directly used it yourself. As for the meta argument we just had...
The meta is what allowed me to notice you were doing it in the first place
@Bard cuts: Thank you for the links. Going to look now.
@LLD cut: ##Unvote, ##Vote Lady Lambdadelta
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Bard's links are incredibly acceptable. Answer them or die, LLD.
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You dodged my question. Do you or do you not support Meta as the basis of a case?
Did you or did you not use Meta to create this case?
Does this, by your own fucking principles, not invalidate your arguments?
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See? :U That's what I mean. Stubborn insistence to avoid answering to things, despite there being evidence (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660400.html#msg660400) to support my claims. Further attempts to discredit by claiming I call her arguments stupid: no, I call your case terrible, because it isn't very good. I could write up a case on Huh What if I really wanted to, and I could find a fair more points to hold against him than one line in this entire game; therefore, lazy.
"How do you want me to respond?!" I give her an answer, she still refuses. Textbook anti-town. Now can we please lynch the scum in front of us first, and then look at the other scum?
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I answered your question. If you aren't going to read the answer, then there's not much else I can do. You're splitting hairs and trying to pretend you have something on me. You don't.
Now. You dodged my question. Please get to answering it.
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UK, these links both attack my Rhetoric, which I discounted as a load of bullshit.
So I'm not considering them valid. You would though, considering it coincides with the rest of your play this game.
I'm being misrepped now by Bard. I asked how you want me to answer allegations against my Rhetoric.
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If you're being misrepped by Bardiche, show us how. Insisting that he's using rhetoric, and scummy for it, once again, is you engaging in something you yourself admit is scummy.
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If you're being misrepped by Bardiche, show us how. Insisting that he's using rhetoric, and scummy for it, once again, is you engaging in something you yourself admit is scummy.
...
That's not what I said and you damn well know it.
I'm saying he's only attacking me based on MY Rhetoric.
The both of you are now twisting my words massively, and I can't tell if any, one or both of you are scum, or if you're both just playing pants on head.
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It's quite amusing that you'd call me playing pants on head. Explain what you mean then. As it stands, I completely fail to understand how you are absolved of answering Bard's reasonable questions.
At this point, it's either that or the noose. What possible pro town intent could there be in not making things clearer to us?
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This is incredibly incredibly frustrating.
I'm not going to stick around and get steamrolled by two people running over me at once, when I refuse to raise my voice anymore.
I don't even know what you want me to ANSWER any more. I've answered pretty much every god damn question I have been asked, and you're still looking for something. So either you're pants on head (in which case you missed my answers or just don't understand them) or you're deliberately missing my answers or trying to misrepresent them (that's happened a few times) to steamroll me.
So you give me in point form everything you want me to answer that I HAVEN'T ANSWERED, and I'll answer it.
Be warned, if I find a question THAT I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED, I'm going to spam the link to the post in which I answer it at you out of frustration. >.>
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I'd love to join this LLD wagon if only Dormio could say something to convince me he's townie, which he's utterly failing at. Since Bard asked earlier, and my headache has finally gone away enough to read people's posts, I'd support a lynch on Dormio or huh what, with a Chaore fastball for popping in with a bunch of general reads and ducking his head back under, but I'd probably want him to make a second post before wagoning him.
I also can't tell where you've actually answered anything asked of you, Lambda. You have a bad habit of just not addressing things as either alignment. I don't see this twisting of rhetoric you're talking about. I agree Bard and UK should restate their questions so you can at least try to answer them this time.
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Well, I want you to answer all the questions Bard could not find answers to in his initial post. Given he conveniently linked the post and bolded the questions, this shouldn't be an issue.
Secondly:
1. What do you mean by Bard attacking "your rhetoric"? Cite it, show me how his case is invalid
2. Show us precisely how you're being misrepped by Bard, and give us the correct version of things.
I think those are all I need right now.
@Shadoweh: LLD has become more scummy than Dormio. I have not forgotten Dormio. Could you show me the case on HW again? If you stated one, relink it please so I can assess.
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You may note that my attacks on your "rhetoric" are moreso based on that you saw the need to revise a statement so many times.
Original:
You didn't react at ALL to that post. You never mentioned it or anything, or even attempted to determine my alignment from it.
Revision #1:
Though, I realize I worded my statement poorly. I meant to aya that no where do you ever talk about my alignment.
Revision #2:
Oh, and by "never mentioned it" I mean "never mentioned anything about how my posts affected my alignment" until now.
Per Lambda's revisions, the original should read as:
You never mentioned anything about how my posts affect my alignment, or even attempted to determine my alignment from them
Like, what, do you honestly want me to declare you scummy or town over ":toot: Shadoweh is scum for not raging enough"? The point I hold here against you is the need to revise your original statement so much, given the new and old statements say completely different things and it's weird you'd justify missing a post with revisions. Or, y'know, the original complaint that I didn't react at all which spawned the entire controversy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660192.html#msg660192).
Cut. Lol okay.
* What changed between the first line and the last line of your opening post that you wanted to vote, i.e. what convinced you my vigshot was scummy?
* How does Shadoweh scum correlate to Bardiche scum, given the "distancing" would be an act of Shadoweh's to implicate me? I.E. what reasoning do you employ to support that someone vigging randomly would be scum if his target would flip scum?
* Reason out why a scum flip implicates scumBard, how a town flip implicates scumBard and how no flip implicates scumShadoweh. So far your only response to this has been ":toot: Shadoweh meta", despite not knowing her well enough.
* This is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion. Or: Who do you think are scum, and why do you think they are scum? I'm still lost on how Huh What is scum. Citing a post and bolding one line doesn't make it nearly as obvious as you think it is.
* What about Schezo's exchange with UK is awkward, and how does this make him scum? You obviously voted him for it, and even if his response is now satisfactory we never learn what was wrong with them in the first place. So what made you think he was scum at the time?
* Why do you maintain a massive twitch over Shadoweh? This is after you concluded the vig shot was a nulltell, so surely you have reason to still suspect her.
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Oh, and Lambda, if you think you've answered a question already, don't spam a link. Just answer it again and try to be clearer because if it wasn't sufficient the first time it's not going to be sufficient a second time. Being obstinent isn't going to help us figure you out if you're town.
ShoeCat: His response to my case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660344.html#msg660344) seriously put me off. I feel like he's been acting defensively towards me ever since I voted him the first time. My post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660379.html#msg660379) is a more direct rebuttal.
Also, seriously, this.
After spending your entire first post going "omg ShadowehxBard scum OTP", I think you should have more to say than just "Well I thought meta". Apparently Shadoweh going "Bard is a fucking asshole" wasn't enough rage.
I like to think I don't normally start swearing at people who target me. :/ You guys make me seriously wonder about my attitude sometimes. Amusingly, I'm pretty sure I know how scum me would have reacted. I would have laughed. If I were the bad guy it would have been pretty amusing for town to randomly kill me. Likely I wouldn't have said that, but I think my posts would have had an amused tone, instead of what you got. NotAmusedShadowehCat.jpg
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Hmm, what's HW's case on you? Um...hmm...I think for now I just want to leave it at "I disagree with parts of your counter to HW's rebuttal", since I see no need to give him a full out defense. I also don't see him acting defensively, but I could just be braindumb.
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Vote: LLD
You know, I really don't understand your case on Huh What right now.
So uh, why am I scum again? You keep making nitpicks about my posts, but you haven't explained how my actions have scum intent.
I would like you to explain how Huh What?s request that Shadoweh explain why she thinks Huh What is scummy is a scum tell. More than that, I disagree with your current attacks on Bardiche and UK, and I don?t like how adverse you are to answering their questions. I do not agree that Bardiche is attacking you over your rhetoric. Frankly, I think you?re just throwing mud at your attackers to get out of explaining yourself, and I think you?re the most likely scum at this time.
I would like to apologize to Schezo. He did mention huh what in his previous post, although I still maintain that he is passive, and not really pushing his lynches. Schezo, what do you think of Huh what's post-confirmation play?
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EBWOP:
##Unvote
##Vote: LLD
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@Shadoweh: PX has actually said anything? Seems like passive defending and pulling off UK once he realized that he didn't actually have a good case and throwing his vote on someone else quickly. Not anything big. It doesn't help he runs away without so much as an -inkling- of a case on LLD, just 'hey sup explain yourselves whoops gotta run have a vote'. Hes asking her questions, but not explaining why she's scummy. Hes running and hiding from saying anything more than...actually saying anything. Still wouldn't mind him dying.
Dormio has similarly not made me like him any god damn more. His answer to why he hated that one post so much, 'She seemed to convinced of town shadoweh'. That's it. That's pretty much his entire case along with... 'Playing it safe'? Which is not a scumtell. Here's something I've had brutally drilled into my head from multiple people my first few games- town wants to live just as much as scum. Wanting to live is not a scumtell. You still haven't elaborated -anything- larger than your non-existant case from -before the god damn game started-. This is...terrible, and I really want him fucking dead for it. This is refusing to scumhunt for no reason and trying to get away with it.
Other than those two- I'm going to say I see nothing really wrong with Huhwhat, he seems to be pulling along rather nicely and I don't see anything wrong with his posts, and I'm kinda surprised he has so many people on him already- Though I am kinda curious why he thought Bardiche was always gambitting, I may just be kinda stupid but I wasn't exactly sure if it was, first looking at it.
LLD on the other hand earns a badge of disrespect for running away in the middle of questioning instead of calming down and trying to properly respond to her attackers. I see what's bad about her disliking Shadoweh's reaction based on poor meta for a player she's played with... for only a few games and perhaps doesn't know all that well, and generally I dislike using Meta myself. But she's not casting her vote for it, so I'm not going to really pick at that.
She has however, not used her vote well and overall her vote seems to be mishandled with similar no-cases. LLD, Make a case. Explain why your current vote is scum please. I am a dumb rabbit and can not comprehend the immortal mind of the witch of certainty, please explain a bit!
I'd like LLD to respond and explain a bit before I decide if I'm happy with seeing her die or not, because I'm having trouble reading into her current posts.
Edit: Cut by Capt. H asking for generally what I want to see as well. Huhrm.
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I dislike this. Lambda isn't going to be back to answer any of these questions before her lynch goes through at this rate and there are far too many people who haven't noted she exists. It would only prove that UK and Bard are a terrifying tag team. Chaore, knowing this, do you want to see Lambda flip now?
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I am tempted to unvote before I go to bed to at least stave off any quicklynching before she can respond.
I don't *think* I have to do that though. How many hours left in the day again?
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I dislike this. Lambda isn't going to be back to answer any of these questions before her lynch goes through at this rate and there are far too many people who haven't noted she exists. It would only prove that UK and Bard are a terrifying tag team. Chaore, knowing this, do you want to see Lambda flip now?
If Lambda doesn't return in time I would -not- wish to see her flip. It'd essentially give town nothing to really work with and I have a bad feeling as you said, that people would just focus more on UK and Bard over the flip. It'd be a waste of a player, and usually when I give a person a question and want them to speak again, I want them to speak again before I say they're scum. I want LLD to speak again before I say I want her to flip or not, I'm having trouble understanding even the basics of her post and I want something I -can- understand from her.
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Day One starts here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659430.html#msg659430). We have approximately ten hours from my count. We're not playing by no-lynch rules, the majority is going to be lynched no matter what. If you two aren't willing to lynch her right now, who -are- you willing to lynch?
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I'm sorry, I can't post tonight. I've been staring at this for hours and nothing is happening. I can barely understand it. So I'm going to go ahead and ask everything this now. I'm not as dead as I was in Zombie Mafia. I can still read the words, it's just extremely difficult for me to understand them. This means increased posting time for me and decreased ability to word, make myself understood, actually find scum and just general performance.
##Unvote
Should I seek a replacement, or should I try to stay in the game?
I suspect this will last at least another five days. 5 - 10 is typically how long it lasts and I cannot predict how long it will last this time. During that time I can't promise quality. I will do everything in my power to get 1 really good post every 24 hours, but I'm not even sure if I can promise that I'll deliver that. If I have another day like today then it just won't happen. I just feel really bad about even considering to drop when I might actually be able to do something.
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Day One starts here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659430.html#msg659430). We have approximately ten hours from my count. We're not playing by no-lynch rules, the majority is going to be lynched no matter what. If you two aren't willing to lynch her right now, who -are- you willing to lynch?
We have 8 hours and 45 minutes left according to the votecounts, not 10. Day 1 ends at 10:00 EST, according to the mod updates.
@K4U - even if you can't be around, can you place your vote somewhere we can use it? We don't have much time left, and the biggest wagon is only at L-3.
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@Shadoweh: I'd lynch her now if day ended right now. I just want her to get something out there in case we're wrong. Because as it stands, there's a lot there that's not helping us. Hell, that's the crux of the case, isn't it? She's saying a lot of stuff but none of it really helps town.
Ugh, with 10 hours left, I'm not going to risk unvoting. I'll be up in 8 hours though, so I'll at least be around to change my vote if necessary. ...in fact, I am pretty much sure that LLD will not get back before deadline. Ah...fuck.
OK. I want her dead enough so I'm willing to accept that, even though I'm rather unhappy with it.
@capt. h: OH, lovely. Well, I'll be up for one hour before deadline.
@K4U: Well...given night is about to fall...you should know in about 24 hours if posts are going to be a thing that happens, right? If you don't feel you can do a decent post every 24 hours before night ends, I think replacing out would be best for you. No need to add ADDITIONAL stress on top of your headaches.
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@Shadoweh: I would prefer to see Dormio lynched, Thus why my vote is currently still on him as of this moment.
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Dormio #220: While I can agree with some of your points, including your suspicion on K4U being reasonable enough, you're still not doing anything regarding your UK case. You're not even questioning her and her motives, just responding to people. Since it looks like UK is not going to be lynched today, let's see who you'd vote for instead.
HW #222: Just wondering, you're saying that early on, Dormio had voted Bard while going after UK because he was the largest wagon during the fake Day 1 and was keeping it there because it "has the largest chance to go through." Now your most updated case is because Dormio is tunneling on UK and refuses to let go even though UK's wagon is far from the largest now. That he's stuck on UK. I don't know, just feels like you aren't giving enough consideration that he could be fumbling Town. The Shadoweh accusation feels a bit of a reach though, why is her switch (was it from you to Dormio?) more of an indication of bussing rather than her having Townie intent? Her vote to Dormio had about as much content to it as your initial one. Why is she "bussing" at this time when Pesco's votecount right above at #167 shows it would have put Dormio in a tie with UK and myself? Your words "look" good, but something feels a bit off. The Dormio case is reasonable, but the Shadoweh one feels poorly researched and the PX one follows that same tone as well. I'm not feeling bad about keeping my vote on you right now. If Dormio flips Scum though, my case on you is probably shot because you're the first vote on Dormio today.
Regarding LLD: Why is the conversation there devolving into some tell that I don't fully understand and something about UK using meta? And the snippy answers are confusing me. Humor us and just answer Bard's #264 in a straightforward manner.
Holy shit, capt.h looks like he might be using my template. Thanks for providing me my first smile of the day. The mentioning about Schezo's #205 looking a little like he's not emphasizing the HW case and possibly cheerleading the Dormio one is indeed something to note.
At this point, if I can't get the HW lynch, I think I'd prefer Dormio over LLD despite how much I'm not liking either wagon. Dormio is lurker-ish bad while LLD is in-your-face bad. I can see why LLD as Scum would refuse to engage in conversation, but she's being so stubborn and over the top on some things that it just doesn't look like smart Scum play when she could have chosen a not-so-conspicuously-weird first case at the start of the Day. Her play is just baffling in general but that kind of behavior I would probably see more as a Townie doing it. I really can't remember her play as Scum Mai from MHM because I saw her through rose-colored glasses when I replaced in and don't recall her early play. Dormio at least I have an easier time seeing as Scum even if I don't really think he is; his actions can fit the mold of a bumbling Scum unable to build a case. Guess I'll wake myself up at deadline as well and see how it goes from there.
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Kiro: On scum!LLD, the first thing she did was randomly declare someone town and stubbornly push cases involving weird scum pairings on people. It wouldn't take long, I recommend you go look at her ED1 play involving her arguments with Gumshoe to see good examples of what she was doing. And I think you should remember scum!Dormio just fine.
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A little over 6 hours remain by my count. I can't do the votes on my phone.
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There is no way in hell I'm going to be awake for that. My vote is where I want it to be today. There better be more posts from people when I wake up!
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Bleh.
So basically, I can't have either of my Kitten lynches.
Main wagons are me, Huh What, and LSD, huh.
BRB rereading Huh What and LSD.
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Ugggggggggggh I'm seriously derping from lack of sleep. BUT SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK SO I WILL GET THIS POST OUT.
There were many things I forgot to post yesterday, the LLD thing being one of them, due to desire to sleep.
I'm dropping the UK case because I seriously failed to read and basically have no case. The whole thing was based on weird parts that she explained as reaction fishing, and I'm not going to argue over a subjective topic, as that would get nowhere.
The LLD vote was because I was rushing a post before I had to go, and LLD stood out to be, considering that REALLY weird post. Bard pretty much explains it.
LLD's actions struck me as weird, and much more than a vote calling for her lynch this is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion.
Dormio... I see as really derp Durrmio. He's been playing really defensively and I see his pre-game as mostly derp. I would like to see him scum hunt in the future, but I don't think he's the right lynch for today. Null read.
Lady Miyo: Pretty much everything has been said about her? I'll repeat that my initial vote was because she stuck out to me as weird immediately.
Right so, the [v]ig was fake, and so the information based on it is null.
Yet you say this and continue to see Shadoweh in a bad light based on her reaction to the fake vig.... That quote is really bad, as how does a fake vig suddenly make everything that happened null? Everything else, not answering questions, trying to push people as scum but not explaining why, as if you're trying to push us to make a case so you can ride on that later. Keeping vote here.
Bard: I already I saw his vig shenanigans as null, and his scum hunting is pretty easy to follow... and pretty much what I would be thinking.... Town
Oh god, I'm dropping dead from drowsiness. I'm pretty sure I'm not going to wake up before deadline, however, I will post more whenever the next day starts.
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LSD: Her opener was kind of terrible.
"If Shadoweh dies, then she's dead. If she doesn't die, then she should because." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659454.html#msg659454)
Also calls the reactions from Bardiche's fakevig as "null" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660192.html#msg660192), though she seems happy to talk about (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660205.html#msg660205) Shadoweh's reaction (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660212.html#msg660212) some more.
Also votes for Schezo with minimal reasoning, calls his argument with UK "awkward". Doesn't even point out what gave her that feeling, or what that feeling really meant.
Random statement that Hourai is town out of nowhere. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660220.html#msg660220)
Why did you even do that?
Later activities are mostly defending one's self and arguing with UK over meta.
Huh What: Nice way to not comment at all about Bardiche's gambit. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659042.html#msg659042)
Huh What's actions during the confirmation seem to be mostly him trying to get people to stop discussing Bardiche's gambit and talk about... What exactly?
I dunno, I didn't really like it, considering how he talks about carrying on with the information from the confirmation stage (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659094.html#msg659094).
Out of the two, I think that LSD looks scummier, and so.
##Unvote
##Vote Lady Lambdadelta
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Screw you PX.
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Waxing Gibbous
Dormio (3) - huh what, Chaore, Shadoweh
huh what (3) - Schezo, LLD, Kiro
Lady Lambadelta (5) - Bardiche, PX, UncertainKitten, capt.h, Dormio
Schezo (1) - Hourai
Not voting: Zakeri, K4U
With 14 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.
Deadline is in 4.5hrs. LLD is at L-3.
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Hey. Hey Guys. Guess what's in a half hour? THAT'S RIGHT, DEADLINE!
So, I know we have plurality lynch rules in place, but you know what's cooler than getting a plurality lynch? Getting a MAJORITY one. Three more votes people! Come on scum, here's the PERFECT BUSSING SPOT for your buddy!
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17 minutes left!
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Wow. This is literally the worst deadline I have ever had the displeasure of being a part of. No scrambling, no nothing. Just dead silence because people couldn't get their act together for a full majority lynch. Awesome, dudes.
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Let's not be snippy now. We're in a busy period, so more silence than regular is normal.
I still support an LLD lynch.
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Knowing that, we probably should have been getting a lynch together 12 hours ago. Rather than still deciding to make wagons. But, what's done is done. We're not letting this happen again.
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Agreed.
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Deadline lynch, shaddap
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WARNING WARNING WARNING A HUGE MOON IS APPROACHING FAST
Dormio (3) - huh what, Chaore, Shadoweh
huh what (3) - Schezo, LLD, Kiro
Lady Lambadelta (5) - Bardiche, PX, UncertainKitten, capt.h, Dormio
Schezo (1) - Hourai
Not voting: Zakeri, K4U
Lady Lambdadelta was deadline lynched! She was Aya Shameimaru, Town Commuter.
You plan to convniently slip away on N2 to retreive your equipment and return on D3, in order to give a good and honest account of the situation there. Therefore, after the end of D2 and before the start of N2, everyone will be notified in the topic that you have slipped away on N2, and are unavailable both as a target and an initiator for night actions.
On N3 onwards, you have your camera, and are allowed to use it once every other night (e.g N5, N7) to investigate a target. However, due to your extraordinarily fast and free nature, any protective role (such as a doc protect) will not work on you whenever you decide to investigate someone the same night.
It is now Night 1. You have 24 hours to do whatever it is you do at night.
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(http://i56.tinypic.com/2q8vvrs.jpg)
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Though there may be an unnatural chill in the air, no one died last night. The night of the red moon slowly approaches, however....
It is now Day Two. Deadline is on 22nd June, 1400 hrs +0 GMT.
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@MOD: What's going on with Zakeri?
To the rest of the game, I regret nothing. LLD's continued unhelpful attitude towards the end did not help matters.
Schezo, Hourai, I'd like to hear your thoughts on the LLD train now if you could. You missed all the excitement yesterday, alongside a few inquiries, Schezo.
Dorian, I'd like you to post an updated chart on who are scum. Your vote isn't even listed in the votecounts, imagine! You made two posts yesterday so it's a trivial effort to find out what you last posted, but since one post was "I am annoyed with Bard" and the other is a pressure vote, you pretty much girded by Day 1 with zero contribution. I'd like to see you make up for that today.
##Vote: PX
What was up with that vote following me, did you ever explain that? Of all the people on LLD's wagon, you were the only one that didn't quite bother ever stating any reasons, or sufficiently good reason that they stuck to mind. Jog my memory, why were you on LLD again? What was up with the weird votes following me?
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As i was reading the game, I noticed UK was pissing me off a lot fro some reason. So, I figured It's do an ISO read of her, and every time I felt like I wanted to run outside and punch a squirrel in it's acorns, I instead copy and pasted a part of the quote, and note the number of the post it is in. Let's see if anyone notices a pattern~
62 - Also, Dormio has a case on me? I must have missed it in all the failure to actually cite things that happened in this game.
71 - Zak is also hilarious. You're kind of bad at figuring out town UK, aren't you? Let's try this
108 - (In responce to Shadoweh promising a case on her) I look forward to this case. We can have another wall of text war where you're wrong ^-^.
117 - You're basically playing gotcha games and, once again, have nothing on me.
123 - Right now I want PX dead, but I think that's at least 50% because he can't read and his condescending attitude about being unable to read is irritating me.
138 - I can say for certain your case on me is awful, and possibly scum motivated.
155 - I've explained my bad feeling already. Town Kiro tells me why I'm scum. I'm getting the feeling Scum Kiro is telling me and the town why I'm "weird", and pretending that means scum. I'm not sure how this was unclear.
158 - IIRC HW wasn't calling me scum for it. If I'm incorrect, then I must have misread something. Zak calling me scum with his...special case was kind of hilarious, really. Particularly given the fact that Zak often calls me scum incorrectly
158 - ##Vote Kiro
Kiro 162 -So the primary difference was one voted you and one didn't.
171 - How about you get your head out of your a-, I mean, tunnel, and try actually scumhunting
171 - It'd be one thing if the people attacking me actually did things that made sense but...uh...so far Kiro is the closest one to having anything that can remotely be considered an accurate "case" on me, and even that is based on me doing "weird" stuff.
172 - Zak 69 is still hilarious, particularly given the ~*~new facts~*~.
Granted, it died down as the bandwagon progressed onto LLD, but this is the kind of stuff that irks me about UK's play. When someone makes a case on her, she puts them in one of two categories "Scum" or "Stupid", and I would not be this angry at her if my Role PM stated that it was the former. She doesn't elaborate on what is wrong with the cases on her or if she does, only vaguely and throwing out buzzwords like "Gotcha games", yet is always trying to punish the case maker. The thing is, this wouldn't nearly be stupid if she would approach the cases on herself in a town manor, such as detailing why they are wrong. The only case she's even bothered to explain is wrong was PX's case near the end of the day.
Another thing that Irked me is that She just discredited my calling her scum by saying "Zakeri is Always wrong about me!" This had me actively dejected until Shadoweh pointed out that the only case Shadoweh experienced this was the case I was actually right. So, I took a look back into previous games, and I found only two games where UK and I Both played as town. The two games I found so far were MotK Mafioso Mafia, which I didn't make a case on her at all, and RKS Mafia, in which while I did make an offhand comment about her alignment, I didn't pursue it. Now, I'm not trying to put up a Seven for Seven Fallacy up here, but the thing is, UK is trying to use what is basically a lie, or more generously put an imagined truth to discredit me.
As for the Wagon against LLD, UK doesn't look too bright here, either. I noticed from the Back in forth between her and Bard that UK (Starting from 180 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660091.html#msg660091))starts with her Semi-defending LLD as "nonsensical, full Null-tell." She makes some banter with LLD, and watching Bard's case evolve, suddenly Notices something magical (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660235.html#msg660235) that makes her worry, and later reveals that that magical thing is A Meta read (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660264.html#msg660264) from another website. This results in the heavy dual tag team beating heavily down on LLD until she can no longer even think properly enough to figure out what questions she's suppose to be answering. This breakdown occured so late in the game that LLD had no choice but to just accept the bandwagon on her as it floats off into the deadline. I can understand Bardiche's line of thinking, and the way he reacted to LLD, but UK makes such a sudden shift for little to no reason that I can even grasp.
@Uncertain Kitten: Please tell me what "Why Me instead of X" is. Why it counts as a scumtell for LLD, and how it even still applies if there is no supposed "X"?
I would also like to ask Capt. H what his other targets besides Schezo are/were before day one ended and how they changed with LLD's flip. He is the second most scummy on the wagon, and his case on LLD is "Because she was mudslinging" Which to me means he was probably trying too hard to find a reason Bardiche hadn't already covered.
##Vote: UncertainKitten
Cut: Here's your answer, Bardiche.
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Edit: I almost forgot:
Kitten4u! Do you still maintain that your case on Dormio, as you presented on Day One, is 100% Valid? I need this question answered before I can make a case on you.
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Triple Posting, Town, Etc.
Dorian, I'd like you to post an updated chart on who are scum. Your vote isn't even listed in the votecounts, imagine! You made two posts yesterday so it's a trivial effort to find out what you last posted, but since one post was "I am annoyed with Bard" and the other is a pressure vote, you pretty much girded by Day 1 with zero contribution. I'd like to see you make up for that today.
Dorian isn't playing anymore. He was replaced with Capt. H, Who leaped onto the LLD wagon. What, were you gone all day one or something?
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Totally wasn't posting D1. Derp. That's why he isn't listed on the later votecounts.
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Thanks for not making me Quadruple Post, Bardiche.
I don't like HW for dissappearing later in the day. That last post I have from him is 148, which means he either did not post, or only posted complete fluff the rest of the day after that. That was also the point before Schezo, Chaore, and other lurkers came out of the wordworks, so I really want to see an updated opinion.
The cases made on Kiro yesterday were bad. They basically extended from the complete inability to realize that whether Bardiche's fakeVig was real or not, and whether Shadoweh would flip town or scum could have a drastic affect on Kiro's reads. Kiro at the time didn't know this, and even if you make the argument that in the long run whatever happened wouldn't have affected his case on UK, you would have to prove that Kiro did know that ahead of time. In other words, in order to prove the case on Kiro was even valid, you would need both a Time Machine and a Lie Detector.
I don't have strong suspicions of Dormio now. I did notice someone point out that Dormio was making no effort to make new cases and was just coasting along and responding to people's questions. I'll be keeping an Eye on him as the day progresses. Schezo also feels like Scum coasting, but his posts are actually contentful, so I don't know if it's sour meta or anything that should be held against him.
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Bard: capt. h. replaced Dorian, IIRC. So, capt. h's posts are what you're looking for.
Zak: LLD's X was HW...or so I thought. Turns out I was reading "Who is scum" as "why am I scum". Which means if I had been smart and reread, I'm not sure I'd have pushed LLD as hard. As for that being meta, only partially. Yeah, she uses the tell a lot off site, which is why I noticed it here (or thought I did). But, uh, you kind of missed the part where she was saying she was using the tell on HW. So, no, I'd argue that's not pure meta. Sorry?
Her later refusal to answer questions did not help her case though. As for you being wrong about me, I'll admit I completely fucked up there. I was essentially thinking of the game where you were wrong and you were scum...and...uh...the game where you were town and I was scum. So, yeah, sorry about that, heat of the moment, etc.
As for LLD, continued refusal to answer questions was fairly up there. When I voted her, it was because she was dismissing Bard's case with what was essentially completely untrue observations. That pushed her over Dormio for me since it felt like discrediting.
Anyway, Zak, your case is uninspired, and honestly just you attacking me because you don't like my playstyle. Step off and find scum, please. And yes, if you're voting me you ARE scum or stupid. Right now you're stupid. Don't make yourself scum. (Your later post about Dormio and HW is good to this end ^-^)
Anyway, my plan for entering today is lynching Dormio, honestly. That said, I do want to reread both HW and Dormio after work, since I'm fairly sure one of them IS scum. Still...kind of sure PX is derp, but Bard's observation does bug me a lot.
So, for now
##Vote Dormio
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EBWOP: Allow me to clarify that I do not think Zak is actually stupid as a person. He's actually fairly intelligent. When I say stupid or scum, I mean that the act of voting me is a stupid act, or a scummy act. Right now I feel Zak did a stupid act. I apologize if you thought that I was calling you the person stupid.
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Stop Calling Stop Calling I Don't Wanna Count Any Votes
PX (1) - Bardiche
UncertainKitten (1) - Zakeri
Dormio (1) - UncertainKitten
Not voting: Everyone else
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
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I could have sworn Day 1 started around 8:30 AM my time. Missed the supposed actual deadline by about a half hour.
There's not that much to glean from LLD's mislynch it seems, due to how obstinate LLD was in general. About the only thing I can really conclude is that I think Bard's reasoning to pursue LLD looks Townie enough.
I see Zakeri bringing up a case on UK. Glancing over it, I both agree and disagree with it. I disagree that UK didn't elaborate what was wrong with the case on her for Dormio and myself. Dormio didn't really have a fleshed out case (better doublecheck if she said that herself) and I was highlighting odd behavior without giving enough conviction as to how it made her Scum. On the other hand, I can agree with a variety of your other points. The point against you is definitely something I didn't like about her and I will assume the past history you stated regarding your games with her is accurate. And I'm sure UK will respond to your inquiries about her shift to LLD. UPDATE: She posted. Kind of what I imagined she would say. Will think about more later.
Checking out Dormio's #284: Very reportery, just a breakdown of stuff without explaining why it makes either LLD or HW scum. But bleh, I believe he's done this kind of "analysis" as Town before. I'll need to doublecheck later. And he feels like one of those "easy to push for mislynch cases" ever since the gambit occurred. Not really confident that he's actually Scum. At least in BGoM, his first few posts seemed ok (by accidentally bussing his buddies) before he imploded if that's anything to base a meta off of. In any case, he does express some suspicion on HW so I do wonder who he will pursue today.
I don't see anything that happened at the end to make me change my case from HW right now.
##Vote Huh What
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Lunch break post. I need to redo my reads after work:
To reply to Zak, yes, I did jump on the LLD wagon. I didn't have time to properly complete my reads when I replaced in, and we didn't have any sizable lynch wagons with only 14 hours to a Sunday morning deadline, so I selected the scummiest person of the three wagons to vote for. As PX said, Dormio's play could have been explained by him being Dormio, and I was very uncomfortable with the Huh what wagon - during my read through of him, I found he was consist in his logic, was for a while the only vote on Dormio who became the largest wagon yesterday for a time, and I don't think there would have been anything scummy about his scum hunting methods had it not been confirmation phase; in which coasting-by consists of not saying anything rather than Dormio's play. LLD's refusal to answer questions directed at her, but rather attacking Bard for "attacking her rhetoric" won out at the time.
At a glance, Dormio looks suspicious to me, but I have to do a proper reread of his posts after work. I agree with huh what's case on him; frankly, while there are many things to attack Bardiche for, his vig shot was not sufficient until proven real or fake. Once again, Dormio being Dormio (like last game, where he attacked LLD for the miller claim similarly as town) means that I'm not sure about him yet.
Once again, my read on Schezo hasn't changed; I would very much appreciate if he would post.
While I do agree that the cases themselves on Kiro are bad, I found Kiro himself fairly suspicious, and I plan to do a read-through of him tonight. However, a good part of his early game was more reactionary than scum hunting, and he doesn't shape up until 219 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660322.html#msg660322), in which Huh what becomes a wagon through his vote. I'll know if I find him suspicious, scummy, or neutral after my read-through.
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Here's the Thing: I still don't understand the switch when it occurs. Are you saying you thought LLD was being defensive, saying "Stop looking at me, go look at this person?" As oppose to her going "Who do you think is scum besides me?" or "If you think I'm scum for this, why do you not realize other people are doing the same?"
How does using the same meta tell against HW make her Scum for it? Were you saying you were accusing her of Hypocrisy? That because she was using it as a scumtell, you figure that validates it's usefulness as a scumtell, and therefore can be used against her? Or was it due to the Argument you had with her on if Meta tells were useful, and therefore by her invoking meta on HW, you were then allowed to invoke Meta on her?
I understand that once you got on to her case, it snowballed from there and went to a bad place that no one fully had the reigns in hand to. This is why I'm asking so many questions about why you got on her case in the first place. I'm trying to find Townie intent, or at the very least some town-based logic in your post to counteract the vast amount of Scum intent I saw. You practically barreled and helped propel the case on her, and I can easily see Scum UK looking at the clock, looking at Bardiche, and noticing LLD isn't completely all there, and the suddenly deciding to shift it into maximum overwagon.
Anyway, Zak, your case is uninspired, and honestly just you attacking me because you don't like my playstyle. Step off and find scum, please.
You're doing it again~
Trust me, if I was uninspired, I wouldn't have had to make, like, three EBWOPs just to remember to talk about the other people who I had any sort of solid reads on.
And I'm attacking this so called playstyle because it benefits Scum UK more than it would benefit Town UK. Making something like this part of your meta gives you the excuse to brush off almost every case made against you while at the same time giving you reason and leverage to attack the people who are scumhunting. Basically, this style you have actively either demotivates, or aids in the lynching of people who are being pro-town. Additionally, you should be abandoning this style as town since the town that attacks you feel either discouraged from scumhunting in general (by you calling them idiots for being wrong, rather than understanding) or just causes them to tunnel harder as a result of obstinacy (basically what I'm doing right now). Additionally, this also gives Scum a semi-free pass, since they know you're barely glancing over anyone who isn't attacking you, and are more likely to coast by simply by just appealing to your better side and calling you town.
Cut: Okay, Apologizing for the unintentional Ad hominid does quell my rage somewhat. You should at the very least try to stick to phrases such as "Wrong choice" or "Bad idea", something that doesn't imply that you think they have permanent brain damage.
@Capt H: I'm going to reread your posting with that in mind and come back later. That's pretty much the same reason why I'm giving Dormio a pass for his jump on the LLD wagon.
@Kiro: Just for the sake of ease, Could you repeat the case you have on HW?
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I can't help it if every case made on town me is terrible. I'm not going to play around and pretend I actually give two shits about your case, honestly. I'll answer it because I'm bored and honestly don't feel like working, but it's really not worth the time I'm investing into it.
Anyway, I feel that people create scumtells by examining their own play and determining what they do as scum that they don't do as town. Fairly logical premise, right? So I do feel hypocrisy in scum tells does make a "scum tell" valid for that person alone. Because it stops being a scum tell and starts being self admitted scum intent.
Are you saying you thought LLD was being defensive, saying "Stop looking at me, go look at this person?"
Yes, this is what I thought, essentially. I assume that's the basis *she* uses for the "scum tell".
I'm not entirely sure what you mean about her using Meta on HW. As far as I know she never did. She DID, however, try to use meta on me saying I hated meta (which I generally do, and hey, look at the LLD wagon which even only had a PARTIAL basis and meta and look how wrong I was!). More hypocrisy, though as I'm fairly sure I said back then, it wasn't scummy hypocrisy, it was just her being difficult.
As for my playstyle, you have absolutely no understanding of how it works if you think that it's merely attack those that attack me. That's how it starts, because it's the easiest way to narrow my focus. I know I'm town. Therefore, there is a little scum intent in people voting me, particularly for bad reasons, which are pretty much all I've had thrown at me this game. Including your reasons, which were flat out bad. However, as more information manifests, I do look at the people coasting around, calling me town. Trying to judge my playstyle purely by my D1 is extremely foolish of you, honestly.
Finally, let's call in Dr. Meta again because I haven't had enough of that this game. When have I EVER accurately known when deadline is without getting it wrong at least twice because I can't read times? To propose I of all people would look at the clock for anything is quite funny really. (No, I don't expect you to take this as a serious argument against how you outlined my intent, it just amused me to point this out given how bad a habit I have of greatly miscalculating deadline)
Though, I will state you asking questions DOES come off as pro town. Especially considering it's something that PX and Dormio seemed to miss in the whole casemaking process.
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Restating the case on HW:
He was amongst the people that were posting during the initial Bard gambit. There were indications that the mods hadn't opened the game up and thus, the longer the discussion went on without any confirmation that the vig was real or not, the more it felt like Scum could use any of that early discussion as fodder for mislynch later (regardless of what Bard's alignment is). HW's #64 was a borrowed, but still rather loaded case to get people to consider who else would be Scum besides Bard. It sets up a false scenario that shrunk the focus of the early Day 1 to just the 7 people commenting early on. And while asking such a question, I felt like he was bystandering through that phase.
When actual Day 1 started, he gave a 1 liner to explain his Dormio vote. Felt quick and lazy. He does expand on it much later, but mentions secondary cases on Shadoweh and PX. The Shadoweh case came out of the blue and made no sense to me because he accuses Shadoweh of suddenly jumping to Dormio as if wanting to bus him. No other real supporting evidence for her being Scum. And there's no indication he considered Shadoweh had Townie intent to vote a person he was already voting who also hadn't flipped yet. Are you suddenly scumpairing it up now after you criticized Dormio in the fake Day 1 about doing a pairing? Also, the timing doesn't seem quite right for a ScumShadoweh bus due to Pesco's votecount before showing it only tied up Dormio with UK's and my own wagon. It potentially sets up dissatisfaction with Shadoweh whether Dormio flips Town or Scum. The suspicion on PX is null because I think most everyone who talked about PX said the same thing.
I am seeing all this as subtle Scum intent. I think it's more pronounced than Dormio's floundering, Bard's gambit, UK's playstyle (although my opinion on that didn't change till midway through Day 1), LLD's obstinance, or anything anyone else has done at this point.
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Capt: Your vote post for LLD doesn't mention HW or Dormio in it. Just Schezo. Your post before mentions that you still had to Reread both LLD and HW. I only have your word to go on that you evaluated the three wagons fairly, and I'm not feeling sympathetic towards that end seeing as how you just said you needed to reread Dormio again. I am satisfied enough with your answer to consider the vote largely null, though.
UK: Okay, so you used her being Defensive as a Scumtell that applied directly to her being scum. The part I'm not confused about is her trying to argue that you don't like to use Meta, yet used it anyway. The Part the confuses me most is where HW enters into the Meta Equation. I'm going to try rereading the argument again to see if that clears up somethings. LLD accuses HW of using the same bit of Meta you claim she's using, You then accuse her of staying true to the Metatell because her feeling that it's a tell somehow validates your read. She then Shows you where exactly she felt HW was being over defensive, but you then got so caught up in her using a tell you thought you had on her against someone else that it didn't even matter if she was right because she was scum. The Argument then devolves into you and LLD accusing each other of using meta, not wanting to use meta, whether meta is helpful, the botanical effects of meta, the metamorphing power rangers, and whether or not someone using meta is scum because their meta doesn't coincide with any previous game meta.
The fact that the Meta ended up being "Said person is too Over-defensive", which I would classify as a scumtell (something that applies to scum in general) As oppose to a Metatell (something that applies to a single person as scum) the fact that you went into an Argument about meta of all things just goes to show that you have a lot of history together.
Okay, so is this version I cooked up in line with what you feel/claim to have happened during the argument you had with LLD? And that your explanation for why it went that way was because you made a mistake in thinking she was over-defensive which would make her definitely scum. And that, as a result of her trying to argue her way out, you simply fell victim to confirmation bias as a result of the way she argued against your using Meta in the first place. This is, I think the closest I can get to a town line of thinking for someone in your position, so if there's anything you can add or change to this, Please do so.
Arguing the clock point is futile, since there's any number of factors could affect the validity of the statement ranging from your selfmeta of not knowing deadlines to deadline realization not being a major factor behind the sudden shift to someone in the scum quicktopic saying "Deadline's in 12 hours, should we have someone push on a new budding town wagon?"
Kiro: You're going to have to rephrase this, because I'm parsing it as "Because HW tried to extract opinions out of people who were posting." In fact, don't bother, because I'm sure no matter how you phrase it, I don't see any scum intent behind it without it devolving into the too townie fallacy. I also fail to see how HW's actions was what caused the focus to narrow down to the people who were posting, rather than a combination of Cat, Food, and Fish all telling everyone to shut up because Our Great Yam-a hadn't arrived and the fact that it's impossible to make a case on people for trying to Lurk through the confirmation phase and have it taken seriously. Your other points are valid, and make me raise my eyebrow towards him, though.
Colours are for fun and profit.
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Oh hey I slept right through the post-game day start depression. Why are people clearing Bardiche and UK for that wonderful bandwagon yesterday? I don't know if you're all blind, but I saw alot of 'I have no regrets.' Let me just spell out to you how badly you as town should feel about what just happened, Bard.
THAT WAS OUR COP. A COP WITH AN INNOCENT CHILD-LIKE PART THAT TOLD US SHE COULDN'T HAVE CHANGED INTO SCUM. We just lynched the cop WITHOUT GIVING HER TIME TO CLAIM because you two were too busy pushing her for being FRUSTRATING and anti-town. Yes, anti-town was the words you used, it's almost like you pushed the lynch based on policy for frustration! And you were both pleased to go along with this after literally arguing her into the ground until all three of you were making arguments based on LLD not wanting to answer because omg rhetoric, Bard upset she wasn't answering questions you could not be fucked to restate instead of linking to a post over and over, and UK bashing her for some meta tell that she uses to CATCH scum.
All three of you were acting like children. Unfortunately one of you already flipped town so my question has to go to Bardiche and UncertainKitten. Go back, actually read how badly you were tunneling, and just answer me this. What the hell were you thinking?!
No, seriously, I want this answered. You're either big-headed town or scum taking advantage of how your gambit threw everyone off their game to sit pretty and throw mislynches and I want to know which it is, and unlike the rest I think your scummy actions could actually have scum intent.
##Vote: Bardiche
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Well, you see, it's kind of hard to get a claim from someone when they disappear 10 hours before deadline, and there's pretty much no chance of them coming back BEFORE deadline. Oh, not to mention that fact that she had, like, three votes on her at the time. Tell me, had we asked her for a claim while she wasn't even the leading wagon, what would you be saying now? It's all well and good to say in hindsight we should have gotten a claim. THAT'D HAVE BEEN PRETTY FUCKING SWEET. But look at the activity before deadline. Look at the activity while most of us were asleep. Do you honestly think that was a thing that would have happened? What would you have had me do? Switch my vote to Dormio and leave it to coin flip? I very nearly did, yanno.
I think that my exchange with Zakeri is fairly clear in what the hell I was thinking. And yes, I was wrong. Being wrong happens.
Finally, you'll have to tell me where I EVER fucking said I have no regrets. As far as I know, I never said that, nor do I feel it. I'm not going to mope about how wrong I was, though, if that was what you were expecting. That's how scum win, by demotivated towns. So I'm just rallying back into the fray.
@Zak: I'd say that the confirmation bias happened once she started attacking Bard for vague reasons that made no sense, and refused to elucidate them because we were pissing her off. But, otherwise, I THINK it makes sense, what you've put there. Like, I saw LLD try to attack HW for something weird, then I saw her "Who is scum" comment toward Bard. I interpretted that as "Why am I scum" and said I noticed this, and wanted to see how she reacted to something Bard asked. I forget how she reacted but IIRC I thought it was unhelpful. So I said that she seems to be engaging in what is usually her favorite tell. Her rebuttal was the whole meta conversation, which I agree was wasteful. Finally, we got towards the late part of the argument where I voted her because Bard was asking reasonable questions and I found his care reasonable, while LLD was just saying that supposedly Bard was using rhetoric or attacking her rhetoric, and just repeating this over and over despite multiple askings for her to show us what she meant.
Now I have to get back to work.
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Let me open by stating I don't intend to response to you right now, Shadoweh. Unless you're playing it up, I think your emotions are taking the better of you for now, and in the process make you overlook a crucial fact surrounding the matter, misremember two crucial factors and ignore a fourth factor. The hints I give here are that I disagree with your perception of whether Lambda was given time to claim, whether I was making arguments based on omgrhetoric, whether or not I restated my questions twice and what you said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660496.html#msg660496). Revisit these points and if you find afterwards you're still of the same opinion, I'll rebut.
For now, though, I took the liberty to examine the reason people got on the LLD wagon. I admit I can find nothing on UK except for the meta tell, which was lost to me in the great vortex of that wagon. I examined capt h's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660547.html#msg660547) reasons and they strike me as sound, Dormio's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660665.html#msg660665) reasons consist mostly of a report of her actions and what I feel to be a rehash of what I already said. There are no original observations or arguments from Dormio to join the case, which I will note here as scummy.
Dormio, please elucidate why you felt your vote was best placed on LLD at the time, and what principle point pushed her scumminess over Huh What's for you, given you were considering both these cases. (I note with amusement that both were counter-wagons to your own)
As for PX, I do not look favourably upon him. His opening post contains no mention of LLD (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659925.html#msg659925), but when I vote her, he follows along (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660076.html#msg660076), despite that nothing had changed between the two instances in LLD's posting status. I myself was guilty of the same, but I believe I sufficiently communicated my motives.
PX, I would like you to communicate your motives in heading to the LLD vote, and why you believed her to be scum. "Bard explains it" is not a sufficient reason.
I also admit some unease over UK agreeing with not only an observation on LLD, but now also on PX. Frightful, considering I am not often agreed with.
Cut. By Jove we truly are a tag team by this stage. D:
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Well, you see, it's kind of hard to get a claim from someone when they disappear 10 hours before deadline, and there's pretty much no chance of them coming back BEFORE deadline. Oh, not to mention that fact that she had, like, three votes on her at the time. Tell me, had we asked her for a claim while she wasn't even the leading wagon, what would you be saying now? It's all well and good to say in hindsight we should have gotten a claim. THAT'D HAVE BEEN PRETTY FUCKING SWEET. But look at the activity before deadline. Look at the activity while most of us were asleep. Do you honestly think that was a thing that would have happened? What would you have had me do? Switch my vote to Dormio and leave it to coin flip? I very nearly did, yanno.
I wouldn't have actually faulted you for asking for a claim then considering the time factors, but it was obvious to me how she was getting pushed ahead. Yes, I would have pushed for Dormio, that's where my vote was wasn't it? I tried to bring up the issue when there were still people here with time to think about this and change their minds. I didn't expect much activity at deadline either, especially since it was earlier then it should have been. If you count the hours it was more like a 46 1/2 hour Day 1.
Bard, I don't think you were making arguments based on rhetoric, I think you pushed her documented stubbornness in being unreasonable too far without looking around you and realizing your argument had devolved into 'no u'. It was a bad lynch and I want you to realize this so you don't do this to your next target. I think you're still tunneling. Scum could have easily avoided the whole wagon just to stay away from the whirlwind of OMGUS, is there a reason you don't want to consider anyone off of it? We need to broaden our questions to include the people who weren't part of the lynch to get them involved too. Even if Dormio (or insert victim here) is scum there's more of them out there.
Dormio, who do you currently think is scum? If it's still the kittens, can you try to find something you haven't already stated about them as reasoning? I get that you didn't like UK's #46, and I get you don't like the point Kitten4u was pushing on you about voting in the confirmation stage. If they're scum you'll be able to find more motive in the rest of their posts (or post in K4u's case, but I already asked you to look at what she said about other people.)
Kiro, what do you think of Hourai and Chaore's contributions so far? For someone that's been pushing a case based on narrowing the suspect lineup, you seem to be narrowing it yourself and not considering the outliers as suspects. The people who were uninvolved with the early escapades were you, Dorian/capt.h, Chaore, Kitten4u, Hourai, Schezo and I think LLD, so your suspect pool is like, five people. Who out of these do you think is most likely to be scum?
capt.h needs to give us his re-reads but I'm willing to wait for them before questioning him further. Right now I'm dissatisfied because alot of his posts aren't based on his own opinions. I expect that to change soon enough.
From Chaore, Schezo and Hourai I'd like to see another post today and comments on the LLD lynch, as well as:
From Chaore, an updated opinion on Kiro as well as opinions on UK herself since your case on Dormio is based around his attack on her.
From Schezo, similar to Kiro, since you point out huh what's narrowed focus I'd like you to give more opinions on the six five names that weren't here, and who do you think is scum now besides huh what?
From Hourai, capt.h has replaced in for Dorian, please give opinion on his post. Also, who do you consider the 'easy' cases right now?
I'm sure I'm missing someone but whatever. It's opinions time and I feel woefully unfulfilled from yesterday. I want to know what's going on in those beady heads of yours! Also holy not being cut a thousand times for once! \o/
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Well...um...I actually want Dormio's flip because I feel it will lead me to the other scum if he is indeed scum like I suspect ^-^;. Of course, I still have to look over HW and I'm temporarily not working so I should get to looking over both HW and Dormio at some point in the very near future.
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Hey Edible Do You Think We Could Get Sarcasm Tags, Not Particularly Related To This Game But For General Use Vote Count
PX (1) - Bardiche
UncertainKitten (1) - Zakeri
Dormio (1) - UncertainKitten
Huhwhat (1) - Kiro
Bardiche (1) - Shadoweh
Not voting: Everyone else
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
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I take it then you revisit your thoughts regarding the accusation that I "could not be fucked to restate my questions" (I have twice), or that I "did not give her time to claim" - I assumed that the latter was a natural following and that I needn't prompt people to roleclaim when at death's door. I see this assumption is imperfect. Also, I would like to point out I did not call Lambda anti-town so much as that I also called her scum and listed my reasons.
I don't let go of a case until I receive my answers. There was no personally justifiable reason to exclude Lambda from my personal list of Needs To Die, and so I chose not to move off of her. I still maintained clarity of what was going on around me, I am just not in the habit to harm my own case by spreading myself thin and questioning multiple people.
The reason I aim at the people involved in the Lambda scenario is because it is my personal sentiment that they have the strongest reek of scum, for the reasons provided. I will light on others when appropriate.
To light on such interesting scenarios, you ended D1 voting Dormio without ever ambitiously arguing your right. I detect no attempts from you to sway people to your opinion, or no ambitious ones. It's a weak push on Dormio, and the fact you are not pushing him now seems suspect, given he jumped on Lambda's wagon with ill justification, as I pointed out myself. In fact I would go sofar as to boldly take a page from Lambda's book and instead turn to my accuser, as you once again provide no reason for people to follow your vote.
Who are scum? Why am I scum? What are the reasons you can provide to back up your opinions? You've done fairly none of it thus far, so perhaps it's time to scrutinise you. What are your present thoughts surrounding Dormio, and how do you feel about his LLD vote?
Cut. Damnit UK. Get on TS for serenade.
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As for PX, I do not look favourably upon him. His opening post contains no mention of LLD, but when I vote her, he follows along, despite that nothing had changed between the two instances in LLD's posting status. I myself was guilty of the same, but I believe I sufficiently communicated my motives.
PX, I would like you to communicate your motives in heading to the LLD vote, and why you believed her to be scum. "Bard explains it" is not a sufficient reason.
Something actually did change between all of his posts. I'll give you a hint: It has to do with his voting pattern and the cases he makes.
Also, I don't think scum would take the chance of actually saying something like "I'm not going to bother restating every detail of the case on somebody that was already made a few posts ago" There's a lot of benefit to not looking like you're plagiarizing somebody else compared to the effort it takes to make it look like you're not. It's not so much a scumtell as it is a nulltell that people floundering around and looking for cases to make would turn into a scumtell.
And yes, I was wrong. Being wrong happens.
Well, I guess that settles it, then.
##Unvote: UncertainKitten
##Vote: UncertainKitten (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,5363.msg308484.html#msg308484)
Sorry, but Once bitten, twice shy. The more I look and reread through the whole LLD argument, the more and more I sympathize with LLD. This might just be a side effect of hindsight, but the fact is the whole argument is pants on head, and I can not just shake the feeling that at least half of it was fueled by Scum-trademark town-lynching crap-logic. The whole case started out with Bardiche calling her out on thinking someone who was Obvtown was scum because Ms. Obvtown did something that she would have done as town. It's the kind of question that would raise enough eyebrows for scum to leverage the beginnings of a case off of, and calling LLD out on defending herself in a scummy way when she really wasn't, and even going so far as to call it meta just to sound like you have a justifiably strong belief in your case just plain looks like scum pushing bad cases before anyone can realize they are bad. Not only that, but you both had ten hours to think about it, and look it over, but you didn't. You waited until she flipped town, then shrugged your shoulders when no one was around to provide a counter argument. UK is worse than Bardiche, because this is stuff that she should have been able to catch in her own rereads, but she sat in a puddle of confirmation bias, and didn't even think about it until she had to come up with a justification for letting the lynch slide.
Basically, at this point, UK is Either Scum, or Someone I want out of the game. Which is to say someone that I want to lynch, or someone that I need lynched. So yeah, this whole thing was pretty much wasted time, but at least I can say I tried to understand Town intent.
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OH GUESS WHAT I WAS JUST KIDDING ABOUT READING PEOPLE IN ISO GUYS
My dad is a fucking cocknozzle who just makes plans without regards for god damned ANYTHING anyone else is doing. So I will be away for the next two and a half hours due to my dad's dickfuckery.
@Zak: That's nice. Have fun being not only wrong but quickly joining the douchebag group yourself. Sorry, you don't get to pull the "she's either scum or someone I want out of the game because she hurts my feelings". Own your fucking vote, Zak. You're voting me because you think I'm scum, and you want me lynched for NO other fucking reason. You're not going to be able to backtrack out of this one. So own your motherfucking vote. NOW.
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Oh, right, one thing I take issue with. 8 of those "ten hours" I had to think about it were spent sleeping. When I woke up and got online, about a half hour before deadline, there was almost NO ONE AROUND that I could feasibly asked to have changed the wagon. So yes, I tried to see who I could rally to making it a majority lynch and got answered by crickets. By the time I started thinking that maybe, just MAYBE LLD wasn't scum, I had about 10 minutes to decide if I wanted to tie Dormio with LLD or just keep on pushing. Neither is a really amazing option, honestly. And then overnight I *really* realized where I had made my mistake.
Secondly, where did I ever claim to be rereading during that 12ish hour period when the LLD wagon got steam? In fact, I am fairly sure the only things I reread were linked posts. I'm not sure what you expected me to come up with during rereads I didn't actually make, and have no idea why you are asserting this when it has absolutely no support in reality?
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she's either scum or someone I want out of the game because she hurts my feelings
pftt bwa ha ha.
Do you really think I'm that petty?
Let me clearify for you.
I want you out of the game because you are either someone who is scum
...or refuses to hunt scum.
Granted, There's not much one can do after they go to bed, but the fact is you didn't take the time to consider if you were wrong. If you can't approach a situation from the point of view that the person you're voting is town, that's one thing, but when you choose not to, that's when your vote goes from earnest but wrong townie to scum pushing bad cases.
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Bard, I think there's enough noise between you, me and UK that I want to actually be able to hear the voices of the other eleven players in the game before getting into more fights with you. You didn't restate your questions until the argument had devolved and you were asked to, and yes, prompting people to claim is a thing you should do. Especially since you threw her off that cliff so hard. I can quote where you specifically said 'anti-town' if you like, but you should ISO your own posts and see that. I'm sadly more convinced you have town intent now. Unless you plan to shoot me again or make a case and vote I'm going to ignore you now. Dormio's answer to my question will determine if I go after him again or not.
##Unvote
UK: That's a useless statement. I would hope the person you're voting is someone you suspect is scum. While you do that I'll be over here prodding people in case he's not, okay? And cut it out, seriously. If you don't want town to be demotivated, quit demotivating people, no one likes being yelled at and you could be swearing at someone on your side.
Zak: Okay, I think you should relax too Zakky-chan, come on, group hugs. <^_^> I understand you think she's scum, and she should cut out the personal attacks, but no one needs to be out of the game. You believe in your case, don't you? She's either scum or she's not to you, and if she's not you can't justify voting for that if you're town. Who else do you think is scum again? Let's look at someone that isn't also hitting your rage sensors.
oh my god stop cutting me
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U: So instead of raging at Shadoweh I'll propose we lynch Schezo because meta demands he is scum AMIRITE
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But wait, based on meta, Zakeri survived N1 and ergo, he is also the scum.
Game over.
BRB writing serious post.
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Welp, Haha and I have caught the scum. Game?s over, let?s lynch and get it over with folks.
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Pfft, you're funny.
Bard:
215 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660251.html#msg660251): Looking at just half of the player base and then being demanded to answer a question over nothing incites them to attack each other because he takes away almost all of what happened pregame so far and ask, "Who would you switch your vote to?" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086) implying, attack someone.
I might be missing something here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086) but I read
I think UK is most likely to be scum out of the early posters.
that along with a vote as Kiro calling UK scummy.
I feel the Kiro case is weak because I still don't fully understand the reasoning behind it. And when I asked UK this is what she gave me.
It's the fact that Kiro has mostly had tunnel vision on me for being "weird", not scummy. I'm not getting a strong scumhunty vibe from there. I'm getting more of a "Let's see what will stick" vibe.
So I'll just ask again since I still think UK has a case on Kiro. Can you do the whole links to posts and analysis on scum intent because I still can't find it just off of that.
Kiro:
219 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660322.html#msg660322): Dormio fits into things when huh what flips scum is that I think they are distancing each other since at the very beginning I think huh what is bussing Dormio to keep the heat off him if we went that way yesterday since Dormio had already dug himself a huge hole with his pregame play, and has done nothing to make me think better of him.
huh what: I'm still not impressed by his responses since I made my case on him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659861.html#msg659861) and more here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660223.html#msg660223) and I still believe my reasoning stands for why I want him lynched. You can disagree with me but I still think that making people vote others along with the obligatory "why" while factoring out a huge part of the day effectively since not seeing Bards flip would make most of the things he did null along with people's responses to it if they never found out. The way you word you 64 states this, and if he's a dead man with nothing to be gained by pursuing, nobody will pursue it.
##Vote: huh what
Shadoweh: LLD reads will come later since I'm running out of time for this post.
I still think Dormio is scum with huh what. I would like for Hourai to say what he thinks about me now since his attack on me was based off of my one post and I don't know if he still thinks I'm scum or not. I can't make anything out of capt h until he posts a case and Chaore is just kinda there, but I don't see anything wrong right now.
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Also I'd post seriously right now but I'm raging pretty hard because every game I get "Oh, okay, I'll just do this! ^_^" and then get ignored. It's so much sadfaze because everything makes perfect logical sense to me, except when you reason in a completely different world from the rest it's always so AAAAAH WORDS ARE HARD WHAT IS ENGLISHinsertkoreangibberish一不做二不休。
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@LLD Lynch: Normally I'd be angrier, but I get -exactly- what was going through the minds of the players on this wagon. LLD looked terrible if only for her play style and huge post that seemed to be essentially a ragequit over accruing suspicion. I can not -honestly- say I blame every one on the wagon for this lynch only because at the time I was thinking there was something wrong with LLD and -actually- considering switching to her. I wanted more from her before I made that decision, but I was considering that decision. I can't say that this wagon was terrible and made from a pack of idiots without calling myself an idiot. I can say this wagon however, should've been better thought through and players frankly started it too late to properly think it through.
@Shadoweh: Kiro's continued to go along without any real suspicions, and I don't see anything wrong with anything he's done recently. He spent a bit longer than I would earlier apologizing for the counter-troll bit, but he makes logical sense. I don't see any scum intent coming from him, and though I don't share his suspicions towards Huhwhat, I don't find anything blatantly wrong with his case. The only thing I don't really like is his reasoning for Dormio over LLD is more 'Scum wouldn't play badly'ish, so it kind of looks more like a reason for sake of a reason- I'd like it if he clarify what he meant there a bit- Why is the fact it's 'Not smart scum play' to play like LLD did a clear on her, Kiro?
As for UK, I'll say it in red in regards to the departed. I do not believe Uncertain Kitten is scum. Townies are not perfect, and the only thing I really see at fault with UK is her decision to lynch LLD. I don't give her much blame for that, even if I'm not liking the whole tell shenanigans that started it. Attacking someone for what she sees as poor reasoning and subsequent fleeing of the entire game does not seem like a terrible reason to vote someone, and it's an action I think town would have taken. I won't say it was necessarily the smartest action, but it was an action I see with town intent.
As for Dormio, Speak the hell up. It's a new day and you have a game you should be playing- Both you and PX were on a townie lynch wagon, and I want to see what you two have to say about it. I especially want an explanation for your vote, seeing as I do not call 'this is what they did, they are scum' as a case, because you need to EXPLAIN why things are bad. PX may not have even tried to make a case, but you're not much better off. I want to know what the hell you were thinking.
PX- Everyone else seems to have already said this, But I want you to explain why the fuck you thought it was a good idea to parrot someone for a case.
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I've actually been giggling a lot lately, so if I've gone mad, it's certainly not the rage version.
I'm doing a bad job of phrasing "Uncertain Kitten should be lynched because she's trying to help scum" if people are starting to argue semantics. Here's a question: Is the major part of my case on UncertainKitten wrong or invalid? Do I sound like I don't believe she's scum? If either of these things sounds like valid complaints about my case on her, then please say so. Otherwise I'm happy with my vote. I'm not angry, and I'm trying to be understanding. If my forceful and aggressive manor of replying makes it sound like I'm angry, then I apologize, since I'm not and I doubt anybody here will ever try to manipulate Appeal to Emotion. Please don't discount everything I've said on that basis alone.
Welp, Haha and I have caught the scum. Game?s over, let?s lynch and get it over with folks.
I hate seeing this quote. I hate it so much. You could tell me the cake is a lie a thousand times, and it still wouldn't be as annoying as seeing someone claim the game is over, town wins as if it was as easy as holding up a sign pointed to someone who couldn't properly speak. In fact, I'm even more certain that Dormio is town just because of this. Just because Bardiche is trying to point a finger towards someone who is not being typographically elegant. For the second time in a row. Bardiche, if you believe Dormio is 100% Confirmed town, please state in detail what scum intent you see in his posts, and why it is something that scum would choose to do.
Yes, I realize the hypocrisy I made just now, but I still maintain that I can't be wrong just for the sole reason being because of how angry I sound.
As for Alternate suspicions, Bardiche has jumped into second place among the people who voted for LLD. Of course, I don't feel he and UK would be scumpartners in this case, but I'm taking the things he says with a grain of salt. As for the rest, I still feel Capt H is more suspicion than PX, whom in turn is more suspicious than Dormio. Of course, the major problem with having a deadline lynch is that the meat for my most favorite grilling technique is dry and rubbery.
K4u's not voting at the end of the day struck me as scum hypocrisy, which is why I asked her if she felt her case on Dormio was valid. Then I went and read the post where she unvoted, and felt ashamed of myself for jumping to conclusions. She's still bad in that she's a null-read, but she's not exactly the first person I'd go for in the event that UK is suddenly vigged and I have to wait until after the next lynch period to find out what she flipped.
I've been outlining major points in my reads on the others as they update, which is infrequent since no one's been posting. I'm also going to admit my readings on Schezo and Huh what are becoming stale, HW especially.
Cut: Bardiche, I can sympathize with that feeling right now. Still doesn't change my current reads right now.
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Well, that sure as hell wasn't clear in what you said. As for not hunting scum, you are so full of shit your eyes are brown. Just because I've been busy doesn't mean I haven't been doing the best I can. I've been providing a fair amount of reads. Do I have a stupid list on every player in the game? No, that's a stupid way to do things. Will get to those ISOs sometime this evening.
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##Vote Dormio
I think I'm willing to keep following this case, considering how yesterday ended. The way he trailed onto the LLD wagon does not look good. In the post where he switched his vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660665.html#msg660665), a majority of his points against both Lambda and me seem simultaneously forced and minimal. His Lambda points mainly just seem to cover what's "weird" about her rather than scummy (his mention of Hourai which I already pointed out especially), and they even border on IIoA near the end. I am finding it difficult to consider his reasons for voting Lambda to even be a case. Regardless, both of Dormio's attacks in that post continue the trend of his cases coming off as weak shotgun attacks, and I resent the implied notion that I was trying to get people to stop discussing Bardiche's gambit when I was trying to get people to look in more directions than just the gambit, not to stop looking at Bardiche's gambit entirely. There is a difference between the two, for fuck's sake. It looks like he wanted to support both wagons, but lacked solid cases on either of us. It is also interesting that despite seemingly choosing to compare the two possibilities, Dormio jumped on the wagon that had more support and was arguably easier to ride on at the time. Obviously Town would do this too if they thought Lambda looked the worst, but considering that Dormio seemed to suspect both Lambda and myself in his post, it makes me rather wary. I second Bardiche's request for Dormio to inform us of the turning point that made him pick LLD over myself.
My opinions D1 tunneling on UK are still a thing, by the way. I don't particularly feel like restating them, but they can be observed here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660344.html#msg660344) so people know I haven't actually dropped them.
Comments on the rest of the Lambda Wagon: - Definitely willing to see PX lynched now. His vote on Lambda basically seemed to be relying on the points of others. When he returned, most of his comments about his Lambda vote were just "everything else has already been said by people and/or Bard", and considering that the post where he originally voted Lambda looked a lot like it was utilizing Bard's points as a springboard, it appears to me that his case against Lambda was a classic case of parroting being used to get a townie lynched. What's worse is that he never really had any other opinions on who was scum near the end of the day. PX. Now that Lambda is dead, who do you want lynched, and why do you think they are scum?
- capt.h's late-day actions seem somewhat odd, which irks me. Considering the way he implied he was going to dig up dirt on LLD and myself in post #238 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660440.html#msg660440), it seems odd that his next post would just jump on to the Lambda wagon and not give opinions on me. I was under the impression that he was re-reading myself and Lambda because we were both major targets at the time, and as such I am curious where capt.h's vote would have been had he not come in late in the day where voting for the wagon he preferred to see lynched was ideal. Would it have still been on Lambda, or would he have been voting Schezo? I'm having trouble reading capt.h from what he has posted so far and I believe it is making me rather wary of him, which is why I want more from him. As is, I can't tell if he had townie intent in voting Lambda or if he was taking advantage of a growing wagon, but circumstances around his vote are making me consider the latter.
- I'm having trouble reading UK's vote on Lambda as scum-intended due to a lack of Dormio's flip. It looks to me like she just switched her vote out of frustration after Lambda constantly deflected her pressure. If Dormio is town as well as Lamdba, then I can't particularly see what scum would have to gain from switching off of a solid stance on one townie just to join a wagon on a player who less people had turned their attention to at that point. As such, I'm not reading UK's switch to Dormio as scummy unless Dormio flips scum. This isn't to say I'm clearing her, I just... don't really consider her jump on Lambda to be a scumtell from the information we have. Though actually, even in the case of a Dormio scum-flip, I would have trouble buying that UK and Dormio hard bussed eachother all ED1, so even then I might just figure that her jump onto Lambda was legitimately based on emotion. I've found myself agreeing with most of her other play so far.
- As for Bard... why are people attacking him again? His case on Lambda was reasonable and I don't see scum intent in it. Shadoweh's attack on him looks a lot like paranoia to me.
I am pretty sure that I have a fairly large amount of posts attacking me right now (mainly from the same people), so instead of taking the time to go through them and write a bunch of response paragraphs that don't really get us anywhere, I'm going to ask the people to suspect me to use bulletpoints to ask me the questions and/or points they want to see me respond to. This post is long enough as is.
Not really interested in continuing to go after Shadoweh at this point since my previous attack was mainly a D1 case I was trying to use to get responses from her, and now that we have a flipped wagon I find that there are more pressing issues than the way I was reading her D1 behavior (the PX case was similiar before Lambda's flip, but he pretty much ignored me, so). She doesn't feel as shifty to me today, either. I know there were a lot of questions about my case on her, though, so I'll still answer those if they are pointed out to me. I'll say right now that I didn't intend to push Shadoweh/Dormio as a scumteam, and that her switch to Dormio just reminded me of BGoM ED1 because it looked like she was giving up on a case without warning to press an easier target.
tl;dr Top scumpick is still Dormio, but PX and capt.h look iffy to me as well and need to elaborate on their stances, PX moreso.
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Ehhh, in hindsight, I don't really mean to say that UK's jump on Lambda was based on emotion.
@_@ I don't really know what the terminology I'm looking for here is, though. I'm kind of tired of writing at this point.
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Okay, uh.
BASICALLY, what I meant to say is that I was under the impression UK's displeasure with Lambda was amplified by the way Lambda was dodging the constantly dodging the questions of both UK and Bard, because, well, I would probably be irritated if somebody dodged my questions. <_< This isn't to say that what Lambda was doing wasn't scummy, but the circumstances of UK's vote made me think she was snapping back at Lambda. I don't know how UK actually was thinking in the situation, though. I guess it'd be nice if UK explained how that went down.
... I wrote the UK and Bard parts of my post last, when my brain was fried. I think it shows.
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Um...hmm...well, I did think she was scum, and her continued refusal to answer my questions just cemented it in my mind. And yes, I was getting irritated with her, though I kind of channeled that into trolling her slightly by just switching my vote without (additional) explanation. So yeah, I probably did contribute to her response which was bad on my part. The meta fight also irritated me because she was being so hypocritical and dragging it out when it was a PRETTY MUCH USELESS POINT.
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Zakeri, you realise I was referring to Schezo x Zakeri Scum OTP based on the joke we invoked regarding meta, right? I never said I thought Dormio was 100% Confirmed Town, in fact you'll see I actually look at him rather unfavourably.
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I actually meant to say "100% Confirmed Scum" not town in that post, in case anyone was wondering why I was trying to ask somebody to make a scum case on someone they thought was town.
Still, I hate that phrase because of the complete arrogance associated with it, and I blame spending all day arguing and correcting typos for the fact that I even took it seriously.
But yeah, Meta sucks. Mafia is actually one of the few times where my inability to notice details in individual behavior that's not as blunt as "Always votes the Mod first, regardless of alignment." actually makes me feel handicapable.
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Well, I finished my rereads.
First off, Schezo, I would very much appreciate your explanation for why you think Dormio is scum with Huh What. Your Dormio case is a little old and it would be helpful if you updated it. Your original Dormio case was
Dormio: Lot's of people have given him scrutiny that I can see for awful votes, crazy theories, not matching words with actions. And he still disagrees with others who say that even if pregame didn't count officially, votes made show intent on what you think. Which is more bad logic to add to his actions not equaling his words. I'd buy the Dormio case but I want to see huh what's first.
I would like you to expand this case - could you show me where you consider his logic bad and his actions not equal to his words? I do think you are suspicious, but that may be a content thing - I'll say right now that I don't agree with the current Huh What cases, and your Dormio case needs more explanation.
When I read Huh What, the only thing I find suspicious about him is the way he deflects attacks. Otherwise, I'm having trouble understanding the cases on him. Making people make cases on eachother strikes me as a town move, and Kiro's claim that if forces town to only focus on the first seven players only makes sense to me if Huh what wasn't himself one of the first seven. I get a fairly town read from him.
When I read Dormio, I almost immediately notice how reportery, passive, and non-commital he is.
Bleh.
So basically, I can't have either of my Kitten lynches.
Dormio, I don't recall your push for a K4U lynch. Honestly, it barely looked like you were even pushing for your UK lynch though. Besides "confirmation bias" and the fact that you thought UK playing it safe during her confirmation phase, I don't think there was much of a case as the day goes on. I would like you to explain your stances in light of recent events. Right now, I think you are fairly likely to be scum.
##Vote Dormio
UK - I dislike the way you made fun of the cases people threw at you in the early day. I don't think I like your LLD case - mind you I liked Bard's case enough to vote LLD, but you kind of hopped onto Bard's case with a meta argument that I have trouble seeing since I don't know LLD's meta. Most of your play today was defensive, and I would like to hear your cases. I think your Dormio case should be restated. I think you are suspicious.
Oh, right, one thing I take issue with. 8 of those "ten hours" I had to think about it were spent sleeping. When I woke up and got online, about a half hour before deadline, there was almost NO ONE AROUND that I could feasibly asked to have changed the wagon.
According to the "last active" logs, Dormio, myself, UK, and Bardiche were all around at the time of the lynch.
Hourai - While we do have your reads, it would be nice to have the specific things your scumpicks did that you found scummy. although I do like your Schezo case.
Schezo, I find some disconnect and a little fencesitting on his opinion regarding Kiro. In the same paragraph in which you call him townier looking, you add at the end that you don't want to touch him until a flip? This looks like a way to set up a case for later, but not for now? I would like some clarification on this, because, as of right now, you have the wiggle room to go back and forth between an opinion of him based on a vague statement, which I don't like in town. What kind of flips?
His thing about Dormio looks really weak, as it is unoriginal, restating a lot of things, and does not explain how he is scummy and scum motivated, instead of just bad, and gives the feeling of being able to move his vote there later in the future if he needs it.
##Vote: Schezo
Chaore seems to be punishing bad play, but his train of thought seems logical enough that I won't make a big deal about it for now. I would like scum opinions on people other than the arguably easy cases of Dormio and PX.
I would very much appreciate updated reads on Schezo and Chaore. Especially with Chaore, I would like to see examples of where Chaore pushes bad play as opposed to scummy play. My read of you is suspicious, but it's due to the lack of content rather than the content itself.
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Sure, I'll get to restating the Dormio case when I actually ISO him, but the short of it was that he attacked me in a vague manner that sounded good but had no real meaning, and when pressed just restated things that sounded pretty without substance. And the fact his contributions yesterday were essentially arguing with me.
Secondly, who reads the last active logs anyway? It seems like a dumb and unreliable way to do things
Thirdly, my hop onto LLD was more than a meta argument and I'd appreciate you not misrepping me, thank you.
Foruthly, at this point I'm falling enough behind so I might just want to do a full reread, which would be better done tomorrow morning because I reread better in the morning. I'll see if I can do those ISOs after World of Darkness though, when I should be in a good mood.
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Secondly, who reads the last active logs anyway? It seems like a dumb and unreliable way to do things
Actually, I do, once in a great while. It's good when you want to see which players aren't here at all, and which players are on the site but lurking anyway. I happen to like it, especially with lurkers, because it's not something I expect most players actively think about when they play.
I don't use it often, but it has its place.
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OK. If players don't think about it, then how is that a counterpoint to what I said? I still wouldn't have that knowledge. Also, I need to be good and stop checking the game until I'm done with WoD >=[!
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Zakeri, I'd like to note I don't think Dormio is 100% scum. There's a reason my vote isn't on him and why I'm just asking him for clarification of his motives.
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I don't really believe that taking activity times seriously is proper form. Sometimes, people can have the time to read new posts on the forum but not have the time and/or the mindset to commit to writing a Mafia post.
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OK. If players don't think about it, then how is that a counterpoint to what I said? I still wouldn't have that knowledge. Also, I need to be good and stop checking the game until I'm done with WoD >=[!
If players aren't thinking about their last active logs, then it means that their actions are performed on the assumption that no notices them.
Basically, they can be used to smoke out the active lurkers, players that definitely have time to play the game, but are choosing not to post anyway.
For example Hourai's last active time was about 25 minutes ago. Thus, the fact that he hasn't posted in mafia since day 1 is far more suspicious than if he had not been active for say, 20 hours, when he made his last post. Because we know he had time to check the forum, and choose not to post in mafia anyway.
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Derp spelling and grammar
EBWOP:
If players aren't thinking about their last active logs, then it means that their actions are performed on the assumption that no one notices them.
Basically, they can be used to smoke out the active lurkers; players that definitely have time to play the game, but choose not to post anyway.
For example Hourai's last active time was about 25 minutes ago. Thus, the fact that he hasn't posted in mafia since day 1 is far more suspicious than if he had not been active for say, 20 hours, when he made his last post. Because we know he had time to check the forum, and decided not to post in mafia anyway.
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@Capt H: I will inform you after game why holding this kind of behaviour to players is strictly unfair and unhelpful regardless of alignment of either yourself or the player. For now, I can say that you should focus on matters at hand rather than use a forum feature to grant you a game 'edge', for all that you may consider it thus.
I was writing some long, ranting post here in further response to Zak but I can't do it without going on and on about how weak it is to claim Dormio town because I am supposedly singling out those who are not "typographically elegant"... But you know what? Fuck it. If that's what you want to lynch me for then go right the fuck ahead. If that's how you guys want to play, with "I'll ignore you :U", "people are town because you consider them scum!", then please do me a favour and lynch me the fuck already, because that is not a game I signed up to play.
Since I did sign up for Mafia and I don't feel like huge ragefests I'm going to just pretend Zakeri's piece on that doesn't exist and that he just considers me scum after UK, for which I submit a request for particulars on why this is so. If it includes the words "typographical elegance", then spare yourself the effort as I won't read it.
@Schezo: I see your point better now. I still disagree with your interpretation, but I follow completely how you arrived at your conclusion, so I'm not inclined to hold it against you. Huh What has posted more since the pre-game. Is there anything in his recent responses that make you feel he is scum, and if so could you motivate why they would serve a scum Huh What profile? I don't believe I've seen your reasons for a case on Huh What beyond his activity in the pre-game phase.
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I have no brevity. Rejoice! TL:DR: Dropping HW, voting PX, really want to vote K4U.
Kiro: You're going to have to rephrase this, because I'm parsing it as "Because HW tried to extract opinions out of people who were posting." In fact, don't bother, because I'm sure no matter how you phrase it, I don't see any scum intent behind it without it devolving into the too townie fallacy. I also fail to see how HW's actions was what caused the focus to narrow down to the people who were posting,
That is indeed how I imagined some people would see it. I'm not sure if his #64 falls into the realm of Too Townie though. Whatever his alignment, I don't think he was trying "too hard" on that post. It was part of my initial case, which you asked for disclosure on, but I think so many people are disagreeing on it there, that it's up to player interpretation and I will label it as null.
I am a little confused as to Schezo pushing the above as the primary reason for his HW's Day 2 vote in #326 without really mentioning any of the later parts of Day 1. I can agree with his point, but I want to see an update to that read after HW's latest stuff especially considering HW is going for Dormio again. Why are you in particular still going for HW before Dormio if you think both are Scum? To me, it seems like your reasoning is that you think HW will slip away on Town cred if Dormio flips Scum today? Can't truly happen due to our Night 2 mechanic. How does HW attempting to bus one of his buddies as early as true Day 1 really help him all the way to endgame? You realize how much Town cred he would have gotten in Day 1 only to make it so much more likely he'd be put near the top of "possibly converted players" by Day 3? He'd be dropped down to neutral or maybe even lower than that. All at the seemingly unnecessary early loss of one of his buddies. Based on new posts, I want to see if HW is still your vote for today.
HW's #331 says all the good stuff and it does soften my Scum read on him quite a bit. He makes all the notable valid updates to his Dormio case, reasonable suspicion on PX and a good point on capt.h. The Shadoweh clarification I'm a bit unhappy about. You wanted to propose a weak meta based suspicion on her just to get reactions from her? Didn't really look like it at the time. It was a poor attack and thusly, she reacted negatively to you as well. Your statement is a backtrack but as much as I want to get on your case about it, I don't think it's that major of one because you didn't really pursue her further or vote her at all. I think your latest post is solid and am going to drop my case on you for now.
Chaore: The reason I put forth that LLD vs Dormio comparison was because I was on the HW wagon and needed to have something to my name in regards to a possible flip from one of them before I woke up from deadline, and missed. The "not smart Scum play" point is where I tried to balance the WIFOM from someone doing Refuge in Audacity with the circumstances currently in the game. Basically, there is no need for Scum to be outlandish in Day 1. Especially in this game. Stay low, have the field sort of reset in Day 3 and then work from there. That's how I decided on rather putting Dormio over LLD. Dormio by comparison was not outlandish, but bumbling and that made him more likely to be Scum to me. Oh, where's your Day 2 vote? Suddenly, my ok read on you has turned into a not-so-ok read.
Shadoweh asked what my opinions were on the later 7 so that's what follows here. As for her, she became a little harder to figure out with the temporary rage on Bard and also possesses no vote now. But ugh, I can see her as Town being like that due to stress. Same as Chaore then.
While Hourai's case on Schezo didn't go anywhere, I didn't think it was a bad vote as he outlined the one issue I currently have with Schezo. That's enough for me to leave him alone for now.
While I do agree that the cases themselves on Kiro are bad, I found Kiro himself fairly suspicious, and I plan to do a read-through of him tonight.
Despite this not seeming to make any logical sense, I am going to parse it as you having a bad feeling about me then. Why you decided to even bring this up, I'm not sure. Regarding you, I initially thought your change to LLD felt Town even if it turned out misguided, but it was a bit sudden now that a few people have pointed it out. And your predecessor's vote was on Bard for anger at his gambit, then me as a prod. Not really much for scumhunting early on, but I think we expected Dorian to be demotivated before the game even began. Let's see what you got for us later.
PX isn't around, K4U isn't around. They along with Zakeri were the people I was leaning towards possible lurkerscum. At least Zak now has Day 2 content which I can at least see Town effort from even if I'm not sure the continued UK case can go anywhere or is correct. PX literally just parroted Bard and bandwagoned on LLD. Could it be lazy Townie? Yes it could. But ergh is it bad, and definitely worse than Dormio. K4U has nothing past my rage point. Argh, if I really want to go for gut, I think K4U is one of the Scum. Minor things like appealing that she tried to be as fair as possible in her rereads is the infamous ScumKilga tell of buttering me up and boy does it make me nervous from my Townie perspective. The other part is the comment about the Dormio fakevote thing. Feels like a minor cheerleading of the Dormio wagon that was picking up around midday which is bad news if Dormio flips Town. Could I get anywhere with a K4U wagon today if she posts minimally or not at all? Probably not. I will state that she is my top case at the moment, but I can't in good conscience vote her until she returns. I do want her to note this when she rereads later. In the meanwhile, I believe I have settled with PX as my second choice for worse-than-Dormio's effort and straight parroting onto a mislynch wagon. After that, possibly a toss-up on Schezo and capt.h. Future points will probably shift my opinion on these 4. As troublesome as Dormio's trying to catch up and post is, I still think he's probably Town because he has looked like too easy of a mislynch target since the game began.
##Unvote Huh What
##Vote PX
@mods: Please give us a status update on K4U and whether she will continue to play or not if she goes past her prod deadline.
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GUESS WHAT WENT UNTIL 1 AM, LEAVING ME WITH AN HOUR OF WORK WORK TO DO MEANING THAT THERE IS NO CHANCE IN HELL ISOS ARE HAPPENING!
(I'll reread tomorrow morning and give a full post on who I think is scum outside of Dormio. I swear for reals. Today was really awkward because of things going wrong)
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Sorry Kiro, I didn't have a strong read on you on reread so I didn't bring it up. I decided that a lot of your early game behavior was null - for example the joke vote and the waiting to see if Shadoweh would flip were both null tells to me. After the apology post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660153.html#msg660153), I wasn't able to get a solid read on you. Most of what you say sounds town to me right up until you explain your vote; I'm not sure I like your voting patterns or at least the explanations behind them. I've already stated that I disagree with the Huh what cases from yesterday, and I don't know what to think of this new case on PX.
From 219:
PX reads like lazy. Votes UK, has to be convinced that UK's Bard suspicion was fake and throws the second vote on LLD? Despite it all, I don't see how the vote on LLD fits into a Scum PX intent. He has none of his own weight behind that vote so if LLD actually flips today, I think people would be on PX regardless of what LLD flipped as. Feels more Townie.
I would like to know what changed your town PX read to a scum PX read since this post. Right now, I'm undecided on your read, which is why I didn't bring it up with the others.
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Bard, I apologize if that offended you, it's not what I intended. I just can't answer your questions about other people when the only ones I think I've had a dialogue with are Town and I'm tired of us tearing each other apart. I don't think this argument about active times is productive either. I agree Zak should outline his suspicions of you better.
Zak, have you lost it?
I've actually been giggling a lot lately, so if I've gone mad, it's certainly not the rage version.
Oh, okay, you really have lost it. How does your scumsuspicion of Bard relate to his early game play? Same goes for suspicions of UncertainKittan. If I understand your case on both of them it revolves around the wagon itself. I'm not sure what your scum meta is, but if it involves going off-topic to rage about game concepts I'd say you're playing to it. I'm not saying your case is invalid, but you're playing a little oddly to be taken seriously.
Schezo: Your suspicion of huh what and Dormio being scum together is based on them attacking each other? What do you find individually bad about Dormio though? Scumminess by association is too easy to fake.
This is really irritating me. There is a noticable lack of PX, Dormio and Hourai in this thread. The same goes for K4U, but at least I know why she's not here and I'm sure it'll be fixed one way or the other. The rest of you, what's your excuse? GET IN HERE. I'm still waiting for a UK reread for today, and I'll be quite cross if it's more disparaging of people's ability to play. That won't help us catch scum.
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Arrangements for K4u's replacing are in place should she declare it.
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I have the eye of the tiger and my brain is still lost somewhere on Planet Kitten. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG? So I don't have to put this disclaimer on everything I type, I have very little confidence in my ability to read right now, so let me know if I missed something. The only reason I'm even bothering to post this is for out of game reasons that are important to me.
Kitten4u! Do you still maintain that your case on Dormio, as you presented on Day One, is 100% Valid? I need this question answered before I can make a case on you.
Short answer: yes.
It's not a very strong point, but between that and "what huh what said" it made him pretty suspicious. I realize that based on comments I can now actually understand that I have been too vague. I'll get to that in a minute.
I mean, you ask us "why are you posting", meaning that you believe all gameplay aspects to be invalid, right? Yet you're the one that tries to call me out for not using fakevotes.
Quote me on where I said this because I don't even see where I even implied it. I said that posting this much during the confirmation phase was disrespectful to the mod and gaming the system and that I wasn't going to post during the confirmation phase because it made me feel dirty. Considering I was actively using the stuff that happened in the confirmation phase in my reads and criticizing Kiro for not doing so immediately I don't even understand where you got this from. Gameplay elements are ALWAYS RELEVANT. Especially votes, which have more meaning than just getting someone lynched.
Anyway, back to those specifics on why Dormio is scum. Let's start with the huh what posts I liked so much. Have I mentioned I like his posts lately?
In case what I was getting at wasn't clear enough already, I'd like to point out that even though Dormio's "theory" about Bard shooting a townie and have his buddy bus him could be applied to any one of Dormio, PX and UK to make them look like Bard's buddy. Only Dormio chose to apply it to the one who is probably the towniest of the three.
Seriously. <_<
UK: Really? I'm reading it as Scum Durmio pushing bad scum-motivated cases that link people together
@ Dormio: See #64. As far as I'm aware, all you did was sidestep the question by implying it was pointless in #66.
I suppose it goes without saying that I consider HW's question in 64 completely valid, helpful and not at all scummy like some people seem to think it is.
Put into Kitten4u words, I felt Dormio was scummy because he didn't really seem to care about finding scum (as I said in the bottom of my post). This manifested itself in a case that I think he doesn't really believe in. This is evidenced by how weak the push was and that he didn't even consider it worth voting for. That's why the lack of fakevote bothered me so much. Even if the vote wouldn't actually push her towards a lynch it has another meaning. There was so much apathy I couldn't believe he actually thought UK was scum.
This was from ED1. I consider this pretty good for an ED1 case. I don't really know why people are screaming at me for finding his lack of fakevote suspicious, but I'm going to blame that on me for being too vague. Hopefully this clears things up.
I have more to add to this now, because I am seriously regretting not voting him at deadline yesterday. There is no push for a UK lynch yesterday at all. There's not even a push for me. There isn't a push for PX who he also says is scummy and he never bothers to say anything about anyone else. There is no attempt to scum hunt here. Hell, even at the end of the day I can't even tell if he's calling HW scummy. If it weren't for the vote I wouldn't know if he thought LLD was scummy either. And unless I'm missing something his content today has been a grand total of nothing. I really can't believe he cares about finding scum at all.
##Vote Dormio
And before people ask, yes the lack of fakevote bothers me. No, I don't consider it damning. It was an ED1 case and I felt like the lack of fakevote really showcased what was bothering me. As usual, it's not the exact actions that I look at, but what I see behind them.
And Dormio, that half answers my question I guess. Does this mean that as of post 73 you thought UK was worse and would have voted her?
Now for Kiro. I really wish that people would stop doing irritating, unhelpful things on D1 because it totally screws with my mind.
I don't care if you say you're fair or not. Why are you appealing to me that you are? If I think you aren't, I will call you out on it
That's exactly what I thought you were doing and I thought you were wrong. So I stated that and pointed out where you were wrong and reasked the questions from my previous post that you hadn't answered yet. I was a little frustrated by that because last game a few of my questions (that I considered perfectly fair and valid) never got answered presumably because you and capth considered them unfair. I really didn't want that to happen again, so I said you were wrong and stated why. Why is this a problem?
Namely, I disagree with your reasoning that choosing to wait until we knew whether Bard?s vig was real is scummy
I agree and after reading his response I realized how stupid this point was and retract it completely.
and I disagree with your conclusion that Kiro using a joke vote in the standard joke vote phase is scummy. I understand why you don?t consider it optimal play, but joke voting immediately after the non-standard confirmation phase and wanting to know whether a vig is real or not before commenting on it both strike me as null tells; I myself may have done the joke vote regardless of allignment, and I would definitely have waited on the vig.
I suppose that's nice for you. I read it as scummy for similar reasons that I considered Dormio scummy: apathy. Lots of ED1s are incomplete. Before last game I didn't even typically check in until 24 hours later and I know I'm not the only one. There was good stuff there and stuff that he apparently had opinions on, but didn't bother to comment on until called out. I find this suspicious. The trolling excuse isn't really satisfying to me...but this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660249.html#msg660249) reads as genuine to me, so I'm willing to sigh and call it null.
I don't have much to say beyond that. His later posts don't impress me, but they don't make me hate him either. Not willing to lynch him anymore at this point.
Shadoweh asked for my read on Schezo at some point iirc. I think he's town. I don't agree with a lot of the things he says, but he doesn't really smell like scum!Schezo to me.
As for other people, I dislike capth's hop onto the LLD wagon for reasons people have already mentioned. Sorry, I'm getting kind of tired, so I'll probably start to be a bit more vague here. If you need clarification ask for it. The thing that bothers me the most is that he had no prior suspicion of LLD and he didn't mention Dormio, who was also a valid wagon, at all. He sort of mentioned HW I guess by saying he disliked the way LLD had attacked him, but more mention on HW would have been nice too. Willing to lynch him.
PX is a thing, but I don't think he's scum.
My town read on UK is faltering a bit. Not willing to lynch her, but I don't like her interactions with the LLD wagon. I am now uncertain leaning town.
Bard and HW are still looking pretty town to me. I'm really liking Zak's posts as well, so I think he's town. Shadoweh still looks town.
Kiro, Hourai and Chaore are uncertainties for me.
I think that's everyone. Sorry, I don't really have the energy to elaborate.
And other comments. I'm not real happy with the LLD wagon. I feel like the only points that wasn't "LLD is LLD" are her weirdness with Shadoweh and trying to declare her scum because she wasn't angry enough when she seemed pretty angry to me, and her unwillingness to elaborate on HW.
@Zak Re: my unvote at the end of the day.
Yeah. I hope I can ask all of you to trust my character as a person enough that you would believe me when I say I wouldn't make something like this up? It's not due to lack of effort that I wasn't able to type up a decent post in the second half of D1. I was having a lot of trouble understanding the posts, and I felt like it would be bad form to vote for someone when I barely had any idea what was going on. I regret not moving to Dormio now, but hindsight and all that.
Warning - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I'm out of gas. I will not be addressing the cuts because I have not read them. I don't think I physically CAN right now. Anyway, yes, I will be replacing out. Affinity said I could hydra with whoever replaced me, so I can still answer questions then. Thanks for putting up with me long enough for me to get this out. Sorry I can't stick around.
@Mod: To make it official, I am indeed requesting a replacment.
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Conqueror hydra-replaces Kitten4u effective immediately. Only Conqueror will be posting.
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Hi. Confirming.
Posting just to cut PX. :trollface:
Real post will come tomorrow once I'm not feeling half-asleep.
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Boat Count
PX (2) - Bardiche, Kiro
UncertainKitten (1) - Zakeri
Dormio (3) - UncertainKitten, Huhwhat, captH
Huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Not voting: Everyone else
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
30.5 hours remain
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What was up with that vote following me, did you ever explain that? Of all the people on LLD's wagon, you were the only one that didn't quite bother ever stating any reasons, or sufficiently good reason that they stuck to mind. Jog my memory, why were you on LLD again? What was up with the weird votes following me?
Alright! Take two on this post! That's what I get for deleting it. Count this as rage.
I was skimming with limited time and saw LLD's post as strange. She cleared UK by calling the wagon "laughable", copying only Dormio's reasons for voting UK, when he wasn't even voting for her, and using an objective read to clear her. And then she uses another objective read to call Shadoweh scum if she doesn't die to a fake vig. And then proceeds to vote Bardiche. I wanted her to do a better post.
As for why I continued voting her at the end, do you want me to rehash what everybody said that I agree with? Otherwise, her scum hunting really seems like a tactic that would aid scum a lot more than town, since it consists of "Look at this. Something is wrong. Do you see anything?", then waiting for someone to post an actual case. This would allow her to jump on with that reason easily.
NEXT
I'd prefer if people would stop focusing on only the people on the LLD wagon. Since it wasn't a hard lynch, scum would have no reason to jump on the most popular town wagon unless one of their scum buddies was a counter wagon.
NEXT
I really like this Huh What case.
I was trying to get people to look in more directions than just the gambit, not to stop looking at Bardiche's gambit entirely. There is a difference between the two, for fuck's sake
I myself am not particularly fond of all the people throwing themselves at Bard's shot before Shadoweh has even flipped. With the exception of the moderator and Bardiche himself, nobody knows whether or not Shadoweh was actually shot until Affinity gets here and comments. Attacking Bard for how his shenanigans are scummy on paper is incredibly easy to do, and does not require the effort that needs to be put into actually making a case. Those who have no true opinions other than their vote on Bard are taking the easiest route possible while not providing any real contribution to the game, and I'd go as far to say they might as well not have any real "vote" at all because they're essentially using Bard as a tool to coast by until Affinity returns with our results.
Right, but this quote looks like you're saying that people might as well not vote Bard for his gambit, which would leave us right back at RVS bullcrap cases that happen in every game.
I'm sad that Shadoweh stopped mentioning Huh What. SHADOWEH, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HUH WHAT CURRENTLY?
Durrmio's pre-game was super derp and I could see Town doing. Now to see what he's been doing since then.
Okay, he's not really looking scum to me, but I'd like to see him start scum hunting.
And at this point I'm really failing to read and think properly. Currently stuck between Huh What and Dormio, but Huh What looks the better of the two due to :effort: and :scumhunting: . Will vote Dormio if he fails to produce. Reads are susceptible to change when I can properly read tomorrow.
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I'd prefer if people would stop focusing on only the people on the LLD wagon. Since it wasn't a hard lynch, scum would have no reason to jump on the most popular town wagon unless one of their scum buddies was a counter wagon.
I read this as "I am scum and my buddy was on the LLD wagon as well".
I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what I meant in the second quote. Not much else to respond to because, well, you barely have a case on me. <_<
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Actually, fuck it.
I am realllllllly tempted to switch to PX now. Attempting to lead us away from analyzing the flipped townie wagon is just argh. I'm going to have to re-read him tomorrow and decide if I want him dead even more than I want Dormio dead.
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Actually, I lied about waiting until tomorrow. I ended up writing a quick post anyway and want questions answered when people decide to pop in. A lot of this is from a quickish read, so ask me if you need any clarifications.
Dammit Dormio stop posting in Hatate Quest so I can ISO you properly.
First off, I'll just go ahead and say that I disagree with K4U about Dormio.
I think Dormio's switch to LLD over either of the Kittens was actually a relatively townie move, because it put him on a lynchwagon that would actually make a difference, as the end of the day was approaching. The sudden jump is a bit derpy, yes, as he had said almost nothing about his new target beforehand, but I don't find it immediately scummy seeing as LLD only became a wagon near the very end of the day. That said, the complete lack of content on D2 is pretty terrible. Null tell, leaning very slightly town because his actions on Day 1 actually feel to me like he's trying to think things through instead of just jumping on easy wagons. I want people on his wagon to explain to me why his actions here are scummy instead of standard Dormio incrediderp. It sure would be nice if Dormio posted too!
Instead, I want to focus on something that's been bugging me all game. Sorry for kicking K4U in the face. :<
##Vote Shadoweh
I realize that the fake vig shot probably took some sort of emotional toll, but I feel like Shadoweh has just been coasting since the early game. Shadoweh, you constantly ask other people for their reads and ask clarifying questions from other people on their actions, but I never see you make any sort of conclusion from them. The only scumspicion I see is the D2 vote on Bard, and that's a vote that seems to be based on a flip that neither Bard nor anyone on that wagon could have known.
Some questions for you then. What do you think of Dormio? You apparently liked his case enough by the end of D1 to have a vote on him over the LLD wagon you would have "loved to join" otherwise, so I want an update of your opinions on him. Also, could you give some of your current scum reads?
More to come while I read other people.
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Warning - while you were typing 31 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I started writing this around 10 hours ago.
What the hell happened?
Ugh, rewriting the entire post is annoying.
First of all, end of day, it was obvious I was not going to be able to get anything happening against either kitten in that window.
I mean, people didn't even show up to the deadline anyway.
As for that post about LLD and Huh What, I don't think that Huh What is scum.
I simply made that post to better organize my thoughts about LLD and Huh What.
Whatever.
@Kitten4u (Now Conqueror): Again, the only thing I can say about the not voting for UK in the confirmation stage is that I think differently to you regarding that.
I did not actively push for you on D1 because I wanted to see you say more words.
IE. Your opinion on the relevance of the confirmation phase, and full reasoning for not participating in it.
"This is evidenced by how weak the push was and that he didn't even consider it worth voting for." <- I really despise that. Like, really, really hate it.
And, hey, if you want to apply that logic, does that mean that half the playerlist don't care about the game at all?
You know, since you were all there, but refusing to post?
But I think I'm digressing here.
Basically, I think you're being hypocritical there and only looking at the facts that convenience you, and are scummy for it.
And regarding the fakevote question: At that point? Probably not. Because I thought that Bardiche was also scum at the time. Though I probably would have swapped somewhere during the argument with UK if it had been during the day.
As for the other kitten,
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Stupid "Preview" button is stupid.
Writing up the another post now.
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oh hai Conqy welcome to the game what do you think of.. oh. :<
70% of my considerations of people right now depend on what I think of Dormio. I would really like it if DORMIO COULD POST SOON AND ANSWER MY QUESTIONS so I can evaluate if I still think he's as bad as I did on Day 1. You're right, I do feel like I'm coasting, probably because I feel like I can~ Also because it's a waste of time to establish myself as ultra town now when I'll have to establish myself again tomorrow. I am having serious issues getting scum reads. Right now I'm suspicious of Chaore for no discernable reason (I think it's literally because everyone seems to be ignoring him), Dormio because his holding onto an early point and never letting go is suspiciously like my little buddy, UncertainKitten for the same kind of coasting you're accusing me of combined with how I think her content is suspiciously related to how much the person she's talking to wants to vote for her, and you.
Yes, that's right, your slot is suspicious to me because I'm not sure why K4U went out of her way so much to tell me how towny I am. Conqy, what do you think of my reaction to being made dead? Do you not think a member of town expressing no sense of loss at a powerful town role is awkward considering how badly it set us, that is town, back this game? It's true I contemplated LLD, but I stayed where I was because I tried to follow the argument and literally had no idea what was going on with it.
PX: I'll let you know when Durrmio posts.
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Alright, PX.
Frankly, PX looks pretty terrible. The most recent post not only doesn't contain a vote, but actively waffles between huh what and Dormio, even though PX himself says that he doesn't think Dormio is scum. Then he says huh what looks better than Dormio...leaving him without a scumread. :wat: The case on huh what is pretty minimal, too. Pretty willing to lynch PX, but I want to discuss with Kitten first. I also have to trudge through this LLD vote reasoning a few times more, because I'm not completely getting it right now. Probably the time.
Well, Shadoweh, I suppose you wouldn't believe me if I said that I thought the dynamic you had with Bardiche in the confirmation phrase was suspicious. For someone who supposedly believed she had just been vigged, you had surprisingly little to say about Bard's alignment. In your position, if I had just been vigged right out of confirmation. I would have been calling for Bard's head, but I suppose that's just a playstyle difference. I do think that your anger at being "vigged" was real, but I think it was scum anger. ;) The "loss of power role" point is interesting, but seeing as I never thought about it that way while I was watching events unfold, I wouldn't really expect any townies to think from that perspective, and I think scum would actually be rather miffed at their..."luck".
I'm not exactly happy about UK, especially that little dance with the LLD wagon yesterday, but at the very least she felt somewhat engaged in active questioning, whereas I always get the feeling that you're trying to stand off to the side. I'll have to reread UK later anyways.
...And it looks like you answered my question, but it's all rather barebones. :< I guess I can wait for Dormio...or whatever. But really, can you expand on your suspicions a bit? I want to see something more than one-liner explanations.
@Dormio - I'm dropping the fakevote issue because I think it's silly. But I want to see you make some actual cases on people. Otherwise, you'll keep slipping down my list.
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As for the other kitten, #49,
I don't think you ever answered:
You use vigs the same way, but his targetting was awful?
What targetting?
To reiterate, why was the Bardiche's target so awful?
If you did, could you please point out to me where you answered it.
#71: Why did you only single out PX? Why not the other people who weren't posting at all?
Also, insult people -> dissuade them from making cases on you -> ??? -> profit.
Regarding #49, apparently it was answered in #145.
And I find it really weird how you answered it. You said you'd already explained, and the general vibe the post gives me goes with the whole "try to dissuade them from making further cases on me through how I talk" thing.
If you really did explain this earlier, could you please link it?
Also, "I wasn't actually 100% convinced of Bard scum at any point." (#164) is really interesting to me.
You admit yourself in that post that you're backtracking. :/
Also, I'd consider it a pretty terrible thing and I really don't like how much flak you give PX for restating it.
I mean, just because you say it first doesn't make it any better.
Also goes with the "try to dissuade them from making further cases on me through how I talk" thing.
Also, I believe I've said this before but I'll say it again. To explain the "playing it safe" thing, it looked to me like you were setting up your cases so that you could get either Bardiche or Shadoweh regardless of the outcome.
#181. Whee let's say nothing about Dorian.
Also, you accuse me of not expanding my case on you Day One, yet your view of LLD went from "I see LLD's actions as weird and not well thought out, but I don't find them scummy." to "obvscum, lynch" based pretty much entirely on the single tell of "why not X".
You say as much at the beginning of D2 (#303) where your explanation of why you were on the LLD wagon is "avoiding questions" (which is done through said tell) and "oops I misread".
#308. Whee I'll only answer questions that I feel like answering.
Ugh.
inb4IgetinsultedheavilybyUKforthispost
@Shadoweh: Can you please restate the questions or link where they are?
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Gddmt.
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Dormio, it's a little hard to pick out what you think from that. >_>
Can you summarize in a paragraph that make a concrete point? Also, who are you voting?
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UK is scum. :)
Um, to sum, basically.
- Really weird in D1.
- Disliked me for not expanding on my case on UK, or something, when the only thing UK had on LLD to lynch was basically "LLD is using this tell", only to later say "Oops, LLD wasn't using the tell, I misread."
- And "Whee I'll only answer questions I feel like answering." (#308)
IIRC I'm voting UK.
I swear I was.
##Vote Uncertain Kitten
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Well, Shadoweh, I suppose you wouldn't believe me if I said that I thought the dynamic you had with Bardiche in the confirmation phrase was suspicious. For someone who supposedly believed she had just been vigged, you had surprisingly little to say about Bard's alignment. In your position, if I had just been vigged right out of confirmation. I would have been calling for Bard's head, but I suppose that's just a playstyle difference. I do think that your anger at being "vigged" was real, but I think it was scum anger. ;) The "loss of power role" point is interesting, but seeing as I never thought about it that way while I was watching events unfold, I wouldn't really expect any townies to think from that perspective, and I think scum would actually be rather miffed at their..."luck".
So you're basically picking up Lambda's case where it left off when she died? Okay, let's clear this up then. After I realized he was seriously considering me dead, what did I call for exactly?
Shadoweh isn't going to flip scum so don't get your hopes up. I like to think it doesn't take long for me to establish myself since when I was scum five people tried to lynch me immediately. I kind of thought you were kidding when you said that because it would be a dick move to do to someone. If you really did kill me I'd say you're way more likely to be Not Town then a Dayvig.
Oh look I wanted Bard's head. OBVSCUM AMIRITE. Then later I cooled down a bit and realized this was just my anger at being taken out speaking and I retracted that. Why would calling for Bard to die be a town tell anyways? I got the impression early that he's town and he's driving the game forward. After Lambda flipped I started to worry it was an EVIL PLOT but his answers were as townie as I can ask for. Maybe normal people don't look at it that way but to me, we just shot town in the foot and we seriously need to get our act together instead of this torrent of rage we've been filled with.
For Dormio: Here's my questions for you, I -think- you did what I asked.
Dormio, who do you currently think is scum? If it's still the kittens, can you try to find something you haven't already stated about them as reasoning? I get that you didn't like UK's #46, and I get you don't like the point Kitten4u was pushing on you about voting in the confirmation stage. If they're scum you'll be able to find more motive in the rest of their posts (or post in K4u's case, but I already asked you to look at what she said about other people.)
For PX: You can have a prize!
##Vote: PX
You have no scum reads in a post that wants so badly to be you making a case on someone. I don't see how you can say you think Dormio is town then say you're going to vote for him, and you really look like you forgot there were other people playing this game. It's weird that you ask me about huh what and seem to want to vote him then don't want him lynched yourself. Huh what.. I'm not sure what I think of huh what. I don't think I support the case on Dormio anymore. I actually agree with alot of what Dormio's saying right now. This leaves me looking negatively again at huh what's posts, but I'll sleep on it before a reread.
Dormio: ""This is evidenced by how weak the push was and that he didn't even consider it worth voting for." <- I really despise that. Like, really, really hate it." What do you hate about it?
"Also, I believe I've said this before but I'll say it again. To explain the "playing it safe" thing, it looked to me like you were setting up your cases so that you could get either Bardiche or Shadoweh regardless of the outcome." Can you provide an example of each of these happening?
Can you provide a summation of opinions on the rest of the players in the game? Is no one else suspicious to you right now?
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Dormio: ""This is evidenced by how weak the push was and that he didn't even consider it worth voting for." <- I really despise that. Like, really, really hate it." What do you hate about it?
Basically, I think you're being hypocritical there and only looking at the facts that convenience you, and are scummy for it.
Because, you know, with that kind of logic everybody that didn't post during the confirmation phase should also be under scrutiny for refusal to participate in the game when there was "ALWAYS RELEVANT" (#351) stuff going on.
"Also, I believe I've said this before but I'll say it again. To explain the "playing it safe" thing, it looked to me like you were setting up your cases so that you could get either Bardiche or Shadoweh regardless of the outcome." Can you provide an example of each of these happening?
My beloved #46, where Bardiche should die if Shadoweh flips town and Bardiche should be under scrutiny if Shadoweh flips scum.
Uh, strike the Shadoweh part. That was a mistake. I'm tired.
Making another post for the 3rd question.
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So you're basically picking up Lambda's case where it left off when she died?
Not really. I don't recall much of her case right now anyway.
Why would calling for Bard to die be a town tell anyways?
It's not that I think calling for Bard's head is a town tell so much as it seemed to me at the time that your actions didn't really match up with your supposed belief that the vig was bonafide (when I thought it was a pretty clear fake). Anyway, this is getting kinda nitpicky, and I'm satisfied enough with what you've put out since my last post.
##Unvote
##Vote PX
Sleep time for now, more tomorrow. Suffice to say I'm not satisfied with his explanation for his jump on LLD and his lack of content since then.
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To clarify on the mistake, I somehow mixed up one of LLD's posts with UK's. :fail:
Can you provide a summation of opinions on the rest of the players in the game? Is no one else suspicious to you right now?
Oh, hey, an opinion post.
Bardiche: I believe he is town, and ergo, I'm not interested.
Dormio: This is me. :)
Schezo: Lynch, obviously rolled scum again. Dunno, think he's town for now.
Shadoweh: Probably town, ergo, you're boring to me.
Hanged Hourai: I forgot he was playing. Just like in every other game. orz
PX: ##55 -> #119. That always struck me as odd. Backtracking, or something?
D2 Vote whar?
Jump from UK to LLD in D1 was kind of awkward.
"If you are reaction fishing and your 100% Bard!scum feeling is fake, then my entire case is invalidated." (#176)
Also in that post, the reason for voting LLD: "You're looking for scumpairs, not individual scum."
Latest post is all kinds of "lolwut?" that's been called out by everyone else already.
Slightly lighter shade of red than the kittens.
UncertainKitten: Probably scum, go die.
Kiro: Leaning towards town.
Zakeri: Leaning towards town.
Chaore: CHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN. Er, I mean stop posting in CDO so I can read you in ISO. :V
Leaning towards town.
Dorian/CaptH: Dorian G. saying that he couldn't see the confirmation phase, bar the supposed vig shot if Shadoweh actually flipped, as relevant (#120) was all kinds of weird to me. Unless I'm misunderstanding what that meant.
On capt. h, ROLE SHENANIGANS that last online stuff isn't cool. :/
Also of note, his cases seem rather fluffy.
Lighter shade of red than PX.
huh what: He's done a couple of weird things, but I'm inclined to lean towards town.
K4U/Conqueror: Probably scum, go die.
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Counting Votes Instead Of Going To Work
PX (4) - Bardiche, Kiro, Shadoweh, Conqueror
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (3) - UncertainKitten, huh what, capt. h
huh what (1) - Schezo
Not voting: Chaore, Hourai, PX
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
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Hourai gets a prod.
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:]
Hi I'm not dead. Expect a post shortly. I'll try to aim for less than 4 hours this time.
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@Dormio: I'm not going to try to pull anything out of that bloody mess you made. It's absolutely unreadable and I still have the game to reread. If there's anything you want to ask, post it in bullet point format, with spaces, and clear formatting.
The concise version of your case seems to be, once again, someone using that word "weird" rather than telling me why I'm acting with scum intent. Then misrepping me on LLD, because while I initially PRESSED LLD for the "tell", I actually VOTED her for being manifestly unhelpful and obstinate in the face of reasonable questioning, which felt like it had scum intent, and finally, something that I always do because most of the questions I get are dumb as fuck and huge noise generators?
A+ CASE THERE DURRMIO!
I'm...just not even going to bother. Go play with your blocks Dormio, the adults are talking.
@Shadoweh: To be clear you support Dormio's case on me? Despite how, once again, the reasoning is vague rhetoric with no actual support?
Anyway, I see nothing else to respond to, so I should probably do my reread now. I am honestly getting incredibly frustrated with how awful Dormio is being, despite several times being called out for this same exact shit. I don't know about you, but I'd like to think when I'm told that my reasons for voting someone are vague, involve a lot of rhetoric and very little actual explanation, and also have no basis in reality, I'd try to re examine my points and MAYBE make myself clearer. But you just continue to choo choo with the same awful case. When pressed for opinions on other players, you post a fucking amazing IIoA list. To be honest, I don't see my vote going off you during this reread. But I'll try to give you a chance.
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I don't have anything entirely new to add just yet, but I still feel the need to respond to Bardiche.
I already said in one of my last posts that I shouldn't have taken your joke thing seriously and argue about whether you believe someone or other on Dormio is the truth or not. I don't want to lynch you, and if I did, it would be for your case on LLD, not because other people are trying to borrow each other's cases on the easy targets (which is what I think is happening with regards to Dormio's case.) I was confused when I was assuming you were targeting Dormio, because your joke post came right after his post, used that annoying phrase, and did not original make direct references to who you thought was scum (I notice you late claimed you were joking about it being Me and Schezo due to meta, which was not anything close to something I would assume from skimming over those posts).
Basically, calling people out for attacking people for not being Typographically elegant means that I feel they are attacking a person based on their inability to defend themselves, while using their inability to get across who they think is scum against them. That's largely how I feel the case against LLD went down - people raged so hard that it became impossible for the two sides to even read each other, and the side that was bigger won out due to majority rule.
That said, Bardiche, you should really stop raging over the fact that no one is willing to listen to you. This is a game where you're encouraged to read through and give your own opinion. This is a game where you're suppose to play devil's advocate in a group effort for everyone to drop what's false, and leave behind only the truth. That, and the fact that you're voting somebody because he was the only person willing to listen to you on day one. That's certainly not a nice reward for taking your words at face value, which you seem to be encouraging.
Cut: :( UK, please don't be angry.
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I was raging because my method of scumhunting is to ask people for justifications about their actions and explanations of their thoughts, and if suspicious people go "Well I'm not going to respond lalalala bard doesn't exist lalalala" and everyone else goes "there is absolutely nothing wrong with this", it means I am forced to abandon who I think is scummy because A) he doesn't want to respond and B) no one cares. This probably means that my target isn't considered scum by a majority, and while I'd love jumping on the popular trains and putting in no effort, that's not how I like to roll.
I don't care if people disagree whether or not the people I look at are scum, but at the very least I'd expect people to respond. :\ You know if everyone just ignored any question I'd ask them I'd be pretty much forced to just jump on a popular bandwagon. And when it takes raging for people to respond I'm sort of :toot:.
I pushed a case on LLD initially to follow my manifesto and get explanations from her so she became readable. You know how that turned out. When I ask questions and people refuse to respond, I assume they cannot give an answer, and if you act thoughtlessly then you're derp, but if you act anti-town and cannot give an explanation for it I assume you're scum. Since LLD proclaimed herself a good Mafia player I assumed she was not derp and hence manifested my prodvote into a serious vote. And until the very end I was given no reason to ever let up on her because she never satisfied the reason I voted her despite being online quite a lot. It didn't need to devolve into what it became, but she could've replied in the first post, rather than go "who is scum bard?? omg you only call me scum when pres'd k, already answered question learn2read" (paraphrased heavily).
I'll respond to other things later as I have stuff to do urgently. I'll be back in an hour and then I'll examine PX's response (he responded right) to people's votes on him and decide from there.
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First, to answer questions about my thoughts on the LLD wagon, it was hard to follow due to a lot of frustration and meta stuff, but in the midst of it, I saw a shining gem in the clutter. T'was a crumb. A crumb crumbing her role, which I then believed would be a townie power role. So yes, I did not like the wagon. The difference in playstyles between the players and how it wasn't based entirely off of horrible logic make it understandable how it happened. Out of the people on it, Bard seems the least scum-motivated and logical. Some of the plain wagoning is suspicious and will be addressed.
Chaore-
I really dislike how he opens up Day 2 and he only still has the same 2 people on his scum list and then doesn't vote either of them. He isn't actively pushing either of his picks and I find him pretty scummy. I can't even see any voice of suspicion outside of those two for the entire game. This is something I really don't like. Why did you not vote either in your D2 post if you still found them both even scummier than the day before?
Schezo-
His pushing for his scumpick is very unimpressive as it doesn't even take anything new to update his case. It is literally borrowed from D1 and does not really bother to add anything new And now his scum opinion on Dormio is very unimpressive as it originally was unoriginal due to everything being said already, and now, he still is not pushing it, but leaving himself open to get on the wagon if a need arises. He is not actively pushing his lynches and seems to be coasting along without much scrutiny.
I feel fine placing my vote here once again.
##Vote: Schezo
Update your opinions and cases.
I'll get around to other people and questions later, as I feel I ... need to get this post out there. :dragonforce:
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EBWOS
hurr
"seems logical and the least scum motivated"
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@Dormio: Let me get that straight, that post was just for your benefit? Not a case at all? So you basically voted for a townie to get lynched, and didn't even leave a case or reasoning why. The only thing you've done is actually post a case after a full game day and a half, and that's really not making me look favorably on you right now. This is 'target player, make case later' at a ridiculous -full game day- length. I'm pretty sure I still want you dead. ##Vote: Dormio
@PX: Are you and Dormio competing for who can look the scummiest or something. It is -really- hard to tell. Okay so you atleast bothered to try and say why you thought LLD was scum, I am glad you at least bothered to answer. This is however, not exactly what Bard said. This is also not an excuse to have not posted it earlier, PX why did you never give this reasoning at all? You had plenty of time. At this, you never said you wanted a better post from her and NEVER ASKED. Why are you revealing what would have been a logical reasoning, IF YOU HAD POSTED IT A FULL GAME DAY EARLIER? Also, No. You don't get a free outsie from being on a town wagon because it deadline lynched. Also no you spent a full game day, Get the fuck back here, don't put it off longer. You're not even asking more than just asking Shadoweh to make your fucking wagon for you. God the fuck damnit, can I vote two players?
@Hourai: Oh hey. You still exist. I love the town logic in 'they didn't vote immediately they MUST BE SCUM'. Lift that from Kiro? I held off voting because I wanted the two to post and explain what the fuck they were thinking so I could decide which I liked least. As it turns out they decided to wait a FULL DAY to get those posts out. PX atleast explained a logical reason, even if it came FAR too late and is suspicious for thus, though Dormio basically says 'no reason lol, just made that post to organize my thoughts'. I like Dormio least for that.
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@Shadoweh: To be clear you support Dormio's case on me? Despite how, once again, the reasoning is vague rhetoric with no actual support?
Okay, I've seen you throw this word around a lot lately, and I get the feeling that I'm missing something about your arguments, so I looked up the definition.
Rhetoric is the art of persuading people by speaking and (later) by writing.[1] People can be trained in this skill. It is the art or the technique of persuasion, used by orators (public speakers).
So the reason why Dormio's case is bad is because he's ... trying to persuade? What? That's not right. I know I'm missing something. Regardless, now that I know this definition, I'm going to change the words "Typographical Elegance" to "Rhetoric" and "Easy case" to "using bad rhetoric"
Again, UK is using the case that just because someone is using the word "Weird" to describe actions that "Are clearly not town, but might not also mean completely scum". This shows that Dormio actually has a bad rhetoric. I've already discussed what this means.
Armed with my new knowledge of the word, I decided to reread the huge Day one Argument yet again. It's amazing just how much of a spiraling black void of logic it is. It gets stupider and stupider every time I read it. So the excuse UK has now is that by the time she actually voted LLD, it was because she wouldn't answer Bardiche's questions.
Bardiche Grills LLD, then LLD Responds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660465.html#msg660465) by saying that Bardiche's case largely involves Ad hominid, and Attacking her Rhetoric. UncertainKitten then Votes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660466.html#msg660466) and, one post later, denies the fact that LLD's response to Bardiche's case was valid. After Being forced to repeat herself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660479.html#msg660479) saying that Bardiche is attacking "Her Rhetoric" Uk then responds by Calling LLD Hypocritical scum because LLD is admitting to attacking Bardiche's Rhetoric (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660481.html#msg660481). At this point, I'm discounting "But she was being Obstinate towards Bardiche, and I thought that was scummy!" as a valid point. UK was misrepresenting LLD's responses, and attacked her for somebody else having a case on her. I don't honestly see how UK could possibly believe She was voting for scum when she couldn't even be arsed to read her posts.
She's asked to justify why Bardiche's case on her was bad, and asked to answer Bardiche's questions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660504.html#msg660504). The thing is, She already answered that he was attacking her for not being able to make sense, not because she showed any scum intent.
*What changed between the first line and the last line of your opening post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659454.html#msg659454) that you wanted to vote, i.e. what convinced you my vigshot was scummy?
This question is confusing, because it points out the discrepancy between the lines "I'm not voting until Affinity gets here" and "Vote: X" The "What convinced you about my vigshot was scummy" part is a valid question, but the original question as it was stated just tries to discredit her ability to remember what she wrote half an hour ago when she started making the post and after talking herself in circles around whether she thought the shot was scummy or not.
* How does Shadoweh scum correlate to Bardiche scum, given the "distancing" would be an act of Shadoweh's to implicate me? I.E. what reasoning do you employ to support that someone vigging randomly would be scum if his target would flip scum?
This and the next question are asking her to justify saying something that was made in a post that the above point establishes that she wasn't all there. Bardiche's remaining questions largely involved picking apart her weakest post, and forcing her to give answers that would either result in "I'm totally braindead, never listen to me for the rest of the game" or "I'm totally braindead, and I'm going to keep being braindead." They were loaded questions.
* This is a vote for her to get on her suspicions post-haste and update it with a reasonable thread of logic so we can deduce how she arrived at her conclusion. Or: Who do you think are scum, and why do you think they are scum? I'm still lost on how Huh What is scum. Citing a post and bolding one line doesn't make it nearly as obvious as you think it is.
This question, and the following two are just simple asking her to clearify her cases. These are the best questions Bard had against her, but the fact that these points are last means that they were retroactively added onto his questions, and still demonstrates that the biggest part of his case on her was because she made one derp post.
Bardiche was attacking LLD because she was an easy case to make for, was also a case on someone that was unpopular at the time (I remember, Bardiche said he loved starting cases like that.), And the lynch pulled through because LLD, instead of doing something scummy like suddenly withdrawing and answering these stupid questions politely, decided that since Bardiche was attacking her for her Rhetoric that he was scum making and pushing a bad case because she was a townie. UK leaped onto the case with the use of meta, and stayed on by ignoring her responses to herself and Bardiche.
Given what I've uncovered about UK's meta recently, I'm almost certain the real reason UK was so focused on LLD at the end wasn't because Bardiche's argument had any sort of merit to it, but because LLD was trying to argue against UK, and she just latched on to anything to make LLD look bad.
Cut by Bard: So you admit that you wanted her lynched because instead of huddling up like a good scum and apologizing for earning slight ire from a single townie, that she instead thought you were scum for pushing a bad case on a townie. :justasplanned: I think you need to work on the "when people don't answer questions, I assume they're either bad at mafia or scum." Because a lot of good scum will know better than to not be completely cooperative when a townie is grilling them.
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In the interest of appealing to the Crowd at large:
UK is Scum because she:
- Used a poor excuse to shift her perspective to LLD
- Voted solely to support a case she did not make, and gave no evidence that she even read.
- Misread her posts, and used these misreadings to attempt to make her look more scum.
- Her only defense against these claims is "I was wrong."
These are all things that betray scum intent.
I'm not holding her lack of readings against her, because she's managed to find a new excuse for each and every one of her posts.
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PX, as was said before, I am equally unhappy with the request to look at people not on LLD, because that seems a request to stop voting you. :U I can understand why you would want that but I am as yet unhappy with your response.
Alright! Take two on this post! That's what I get for deleting it. Count this as rage.
I was skimming with limited time and saw LLD's post as strange. She cleared UK by calling the wagon "laughable", copying only Dormio's reasons for voting UK, when he wasn't even voting for her, and using an objective read to clear her. And then she uses another objective read to call Shadoweh scum if she doesn't die to a fake vig. And then proceeds to vote Bardiche. I wanted her to do a better post.
The reason I take issue with this part is that you say you were skimming, had limited time, saw her post as strange. There is nothing wrong with this turn of events, except you posted inbetween your LLD vote and LLD's post. At first you made no mention of it, but switched after I voted her. I asked for the correlation between these two events, if there is one - why did you not raise the issue before, given you must already have seen it in the previous post?
As for why I continued voting her at the end, do you want me to rehash what everybody said that I agree with? Otherwise, her scum hunting really seems like a tactic that would aid scum a lot more than town, since it consists of "Look at this. Something is wrong. Do you see anything?", then waiting for someone to post an actual case. This would allow her to jump on with that reason easily.
This is acceptable reasoning, and I understand when everything's been said already... but can you rehash what everybody said that you agree with in specific? There are reasons for jumping on LLD that are weaker than other reasons, and I'd like you to lay bare exactly what reasons others gave compelled you to stay on her case.
UK, can you elucidate for me what your case on LLD was? I looked at you favourably for long now but I admit it is still lost to me.
Dormio, I am unsufficiently impressed with your response. In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660665.html#msg660665) you weigh both of them, stating LLD is the least scummy, and noting a particular oddity about Huh What you reportedly dislike. Your account of LLD is that her opener was terrible, but no other opinions. Please restate what principle point made LLD scummy to you.
Zakeri I really want to respond seriously to you, but all I get out of your post are attempts to rile me up. Are you trying to provoke me by acting like a dick or is that just imagination on my behalf?
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Zak has shown me I used a word wrong, and spent a wall of text beating this point to death. I'm amazed at how you can use so many words to be so utterly useless. What I meant by "rhetoric" was Dormio was repeating things that sound good on the surface without actually explaining why. What I meant, I think, was the use of buzz words. He uses buzz words and has no substance. Does that help clarify things for you, Zak of many useless words? Anyway, when LLD was saying Bard attacked her rhetoric, my reason for saying that was bad was because she was using that "rhetoric" I was talking about to do it, and I figured that's what she meant. She was using buzz words to attack Bard who she for some reason was saying was attacking her buzz words. This kind of gels with the fact I ask her SEVERAL TIMES to explain how Bard is attacking her rhetoric.
Give it the fuck up Zak, you have nothing on me and you're wasting fucktons of effort not telling us ANYTHING about your intent besides really wanting me lynched. I tire of it.
@Bard Cut: ...huuuuuuuuuuuuh. You know, I have to wonder the same thing regarding Zak and me. Because it's WORKING if that was his intent.
As for my case on LLD. Started at "Why are you being hypocritical with your tell? You asked Bard why you were scum, and now you use that "tell" on huh what. Erroneously." (Turns out I was half wrong here). Then as she became obstinate, I noticed you had questions for her. She refused to answer them. So, when I voted her, it was for the above, and "Why do you refuse to answer our reasonable questions? All I'm asking is you explain why Bard is wrong and answer his questions." In addition to this, I had read your case and saw your point of view, though I probably wouldn't have voted if she had just answered the damn questions. From there it just become a vortex of stubbornness and awful.
Also, I'll be posting my reread now, just needed to explain why Zak has his head so far up his ass he's got hairballs.
Oh, lovely, a concise case
1. OK? Yes, I was mistaken.
2. Lol no. You should learn that whole reading thing, given how great you are at writing. My vote on LLD, ONCE A FUCKING GAIN, was that she was refusing to answer reasonable questions. Your apparent density is irritating me and I had to clear out about three different very mean things I wanted to say.
3. OK? Yes, I was mistaken.
4. OK? Yes, I was mistaken.
Look, you've said things, and done a lot of IIoA and misrep, but you've failed to actually show why I'm scum. So let's try this. Who's scum with me, Zak?
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And the worst part is that's not even my reread wall. This is:
Once more unto the breach, except this time with a flip. I'm mostly going to try to keep to new observations since last time I did this I already went through how awful Dormio was.
...did I ever point how how awful PX is by continuing RVS and then deciding not to take things seriously? Also, I think Dormio questioned me about why PX over everyone not posting. Mostly because PX WAS posting and being useless. There were any number of reasons for people not to post. PX's sucked.
Huh, I just noticed HW 42 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659042.html#msg659042) implies the gambit thing out of the gate. That makes me feel slightly worse about him. Not sure how I feel about his Dormio case at this point.
Oh, right, you know how I said I already explained it, Dormio? When you kept harrassing me about 49 because you can't read? RIGHT FUCKING HERE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659032.html#msg659032)
HW 66 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659086.html#msg659086) IS actually kind of bad in retrospect. I feel kind of dumb for answering it with, like, 3 people posting. That said, I did have reads so I guess it didn't seem so weird to answer but...yeah, this is going to start a tunnel. Do not like.
Dormio 75 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659108.html#msg659108) WAIT WAIT WAIT! So, you're not only proposing the bus theory here but...you even ACKNOWLEDGE the Mark of the Wolf mechanic? WHAT THE FUCK DORMIO!?
You know, I'm beginning to get the impression that this 5 page pre confirm phase does nothing but force you to focus on the people who were posting. I mean, I still am fine with my observations, but I think from now on I'm going to ignore it as a thing in my rereads.
Kiro 137 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659512.html#msg659512) is slightly alarming. Dormio made the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT. I don't understand why he doesn't get mentioned for doing so.
HW 144 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659608.html#msg659608): My problem with it now is that it still locks people into focusing on the half of the playerbase that posted, rather than waiting for everyone to post. That leads to a lot of confirmation bias in general.
OK. So here I'm getting short of breath and my eyes are crossing. I have no idea why but I guess I'll try to press on...
Bard 169 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659987.html#msg659987): Keep an eye on this. Shadoweh just put Dormio to being tied with Kiro wagon. Bard jumped off Kiro wagon and onto LLD, which pushes the Dormio wagon in the lead. Given the lack of telegraphing his LLD vote, this makes me feel like something weird is going on, but without flips I have no idea what.
HH 175 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660060.html#msg660060): OK, seriously, this the first of two times you do this. What the hell are you doing that exempts you from posting more frequently?
PX 176 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660076.html#msg660076): OK, everyone is right, what the fuck is this? First you get off me despite me doing something you don't like, then ask me questions I already answered. Then you follow up with an ill explained vote on LLD. Why did you vote LLD then?
Dorian's first post is utterly useless, as discussed.
UK 181 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660095.html#msg660095): I am fairly sure PX never answers this. If he does, I'll
Hmm, Bard, I don't think I ever really piggybacked any point of yours on PX. I actually stated PX was weird fairly soon after he made his LLD vote post. Yes, you questioned him first asking about his bandwagon hop, but once you pointed out PX made an awful post I asked a more specific question that wasn't necessarily in line with your own. But yeah, stuff.
I'd poke Dorian about "what clarification" but GUESS WHAT HE WAS REPLACED :V :V :V
Hourai 191 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660187.html#msg660187): This post is a lot worse than I remember it. Much of it is fence sitting, some defending Dormio just as vaguely as Dormio attacks people, a weird attack on Schezo and...uh...no commentary on LLD? You're Chaore prod in particularly looks fence sitty as hell. What did you actually think of Chaore then?
Shadoweh 195 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660204.html#msg660204): Answering you now Shadoweh, my opinion of Chaore is he made a solid post, and that he needs to make more of them. And that Hourai's post feels odd, to the point I need to revisit it once we have flips. Also, Dormio never actually did that thing you asked him, sooooo.
Schezo 205 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660223.html#msg660223) makes me kind of happy about Schezo. The start of his post is echoing a lot of what I'm saying in this post. This is a good thing. However, his points about myself and Kiro feel weird, especially given that he seems to be setting it up so that only one of Kiro and I can be town. Which is weird at this point in the game.
Dormio 220: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660337.html#msg660337) This is Dormio not really doing what Shadoweh asked of him. His case on K4U makes sense, and also Shadoweh asked him for opinions on everyone.
HW 222 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660344.html#msg660344): OK, yeah, his defense was bad. He misreps Shadoweh's point about the coasting, since as far as I understand it the real problem was forcing people into a case box on like, the four people that had actually posted that were not Bard. I'm not really sure the reaction part was particularly scummy. Anyway, I can kind of see where Shadoweh is coming from. That said, I notice he still actively posts reads after his defense...though his case is on his counterwagon. Hmm.
HW 226 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660370.html#msg660370): LLD is right that "solid post" reads just about the same as saying he's town.
PX 283 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660652.html#msg660652): That weird post that you NEVER MENTIONED EVER BEFORE EVER THAT OCCURRED AT THE START OF THE DAY? Uh, what? No, seriously
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m303/ValetVisuals/Random/chenwhat2.jpg)
Tell me again. What changed between her not posting and you voting? Bard voting her?
I have to stop here because MotK is lagging the fuck out.
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tl;dr: (I got to the end of page 10)
Hmm...I think I want to see either Dormio's or PX's flip at this point. PX possibly first to confirm if his vote for LLD was an intentional counterwagon effort. The only thing that pokes holes in this is that the HW wagon was also a valid counterwagon. I dunno, I can come up with things but I need a flip first.
##Unvote, Vote PX
FoS: Dormio
FoS: Huh What
None of them look good after my reread, though HW looks the best out of that set. Honestly, I partially have a bad gut read on him and can only justify it a little. I'd probably put him at null, slight scum. Also not liking HH as much as I did. If HW were to turn out scum, HH is who I'd turn to first. SINCE EVERYONE LOVES STUPID LISTS WITH COLORS! I have questions for people in the big post I'd like answered that I'll gladly restate if necessary.
Bard
Shadoweh
Kitten4Conquerer
Kiro
Zakeri
Chaore
Schezo
Hanged Hourai
capt. h.
Huh What
PX
Dormio
PX IS AT L-2!!!!!
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Quadruple posting for the fuckin win: I will hopefully not be posting for the next four hours. I have work to do. I should have started 2 hours ago, but FUCK YEAH MAFIA.
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EBWOP: So, my bard cut response kind of got put typed after I typed the Zak thing, but I didn't scroll all the way down so it looks weird. Assume that the Bard cut response is after the explanation of the intent with that post.
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It's a great day to be sick at work. When I started typing, I felt like crap, but as I'm finishing up, I feel better. These horse pills really do work.
Quote from: Kiro on June 18, 2011, 11:42:10 pm
PX reads like lazy. Votes UK, has to be convinced that UK's Bard suspicion was fake and throws the second vote on LLD? Despite it all, I don't see how the vote on LLD fits into a Scum PX intent. He has none of his own weight behind that vote so if LLD actually flips today, I think people would be on PX regardless of what LLD flipped as. Feels more Townie.
I would like to know what changed your town PX read to a scum PX read since this post. Right now, I'm undecided on your read, which is why I didn't bring it up with the others.
Wow, I did say that and it came up almost exactly as stated. It's hard to derive Scum or derpTown intent from a vote with no reasoning. At the time, putting no weight on his vote felt like a dumb thing to do and that he would avoid doing so as Scum. But in #283, he explains his vote by first parroting Bard at the beginning. Then he says more after a quick paragraph about Dormio. The part he quoted in LLD's 192 is actually the first thing LLD really said after she came back. It's a bit of a misrep because LLD stated that things concerning the vig are null while PX asked her how it makes "everything that happened null?" Even if the vig dominated early discussion, I don't think LLD had intended to mean everything, just the deal with Bard and Shadoweh. He's getting on semantics over the very first thing she said and not really addressing the later stuff, covering it all in a catch-all statement. This went from being lazy to being lazy and not really parsing LLD and searching for basic points to keep his vote on her. And the one he mentions isn't really a good one. This is where I decided it fit Scum intent.
Re Dormio: the phrasing that you worded suspicion on HW just so you could make a better comparison to LLD is very frown inducing. If you thought HW wasn't Scum at the time, you should have had no reason to phrase it like that, just say "I think the HW wagon makes no sense" and vote LLD. But ugh, you say it so straightforwardly that it doesn't actually feel like a Scum excuse. Your UK thing is pretty stream of consciousness and is such a mess to read. But if anything, at least they're your original points and you're sticking with your 2 scumpicks even if they are hardly that popular.
Not digging Conquerer's switch from K4U's Dormio vote to Shadoweh just for coasting. It almost looks like the same argument LLD initially made on Shadoweh. That she didn't react in a Townie enough way to the vig which is not really something she can defend. Also not sure where your stance on Shadoweh coasting has evolved so that you decided to drop Shadoweh and go for PX. What parts of Shadoweh's last post are you ok with now?
Shadoweh: If you're not comfortable with a Dormio lynch anymore, why is HW the one you want to look at more? What about K4U/Conquerer or UK or capt.h?
I think those are the only questions I actually have at the moment. I do think Conquerer and Shadoweh need to answer those questions. How they took some time to talk to each other, don't really square away any of the issues they have with each other and then both vote PX feels like an awkward exchange.
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@Shadoweh: To be clear you support Dormio's case on me? Despite how, once again, the reasoning is vague rhetoric with no actual support?
GUT! But no, I support his 'vague rhetoric case' because if you'll recall I had the exact same bad gut reaction that he did to you. I dislike how overdefensive you're being. You don't seem to be trying to prove anyone's case against you is wrong, but trying to act like anyone attacking you is incompetent and their words mean nothing. And until now this has been your main contribution, defensive painting of your enemies as bad mafia players. Now that you've posted something that isn't 'lol u r rong' I can actually ask you questions about your intent.
Bard 169 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659987.html#msg659987): Keep an eye on this. Shadoweh just put Dormio to being tied with Kiro wagon. Bard jumped off Kiro wagon and onto LLD, which pushes the Dormio wagon in the lead. Given the lack of telegraphing his LLD vote, this makes me feel like something weird is going on, but without flips I have no idea what.
Can you explain how this fits into your view of Bard being 100% townie? How would PX's flip assist you with your feeings on this? And if you think PX's vote could have been a counter-wagon effort, in whose defense was he wagoning for?
Kiro: What? I'm going to look at huh what because it was requested of me. I haven't decided if I'm going to make a case on him again. My reasoning is that As for pursuing one of those others, see above. Kiro, if our votes feel like awkward jumps onto PX, how does that make you feel about PX himself? It's the wagon you're currently supporting. I have issues with so many people but at least I understand what they're thinking. I don't understand PX's train of thought or how he got to only considering two players if he thinks one of them looks town in the first place.
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How can I prove something wrong when it doesn't even have logical backing!? I've stated several times why Dormio is wrong. I've shown several times why Dormio doesn't make sense. He just keeps on trucking with awful logic and it DOESN'T MAKE A DAMNED LICK OF SENSE! The person closest to having a case on me is Zak and if he'd get out of his tunnel for two damned seconds he'd realize how what "betrays scum intent" is JUST AS EASILY a townie being wrong, because that's what I am. Further, at least I'm still posting reads and telling you who the fuck I think is scum in my "overdefensiveness". This game is giving me a damned headache and I can't even fucking work because of it. (Still trying though)
Anyway, turns out he DID telegraph on LLD as he links later, and I once again misremembered. I failed to edit that. Since he DID telegraph having problems with LLD, that statement becomes a lot less applicable. And again, I'm not sure how it would have gone with my Town Bard read. It just felt so extremely weird I had to point it out. It still has weird points, but they aren't AS weird as they were when I initially read that.
As for PX counterwagoning, I lean slightly towards Dormio, since Dormio's wagon was the lead wagon. That said, I can't explain why he wouldn't have just jumped on HW in that case. Something is missing here, but I feel PX's flip will show us if we need to look at those two wagons or look away from the D1 wagons. Or at least not give them as much weight. I'm FAIRLY sure PX will flip scum, and that will imply that his buddy is somewhere in Dormio/HW. His LLD vote just does not make sense otherwise. I don't know what to think, just that I have a bad feeling his vote was at a critical point, even if it wasn't precisely a swing vote.
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EBWOP: SHIT! It just hit me. PX jumping on the HW wagon would have tied the wagons (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going off brain fried memory) That'd make it a minor swing vote. At the time, Dormio looked somewhat like he was going to be lynched, so PX voting HW would have been suspicious in retrospect if Dormio flipped scum. So, voting the harmless wagon was probably the "safest" option for scum PX.
The problems I have with this though is one, yes, I'm proposing a scum pair. And two, that would require PX to actually think about his actions, which is a dubious claim given half the case on him is how dumb his cases on myself and LLD were.
Ugh...though now I can think of a slightly more contrived way PX is scum with HW! *head desk*. Look, I want a PX lynch to narrow my focus. HW and Dormio both look worse if PX flips scum. People on PX's wagon looks worse if PX flips town. I also don't have a feeling the latter will occur, but I do recognize it as a possibility still. I...feel so close to grasping what I'm looking to say, but I'm coming up frustratingly short...
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Counting Votes Instead Of Working
PX (5) - Bardiche, Kiro, Shadoweh, Conqueror, UK
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (3) - huh what, capt. h, Chaore
huh what (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Hourai
Not voting: PX
PX is at L-2
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 18 hours
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It sounds like it would help you if you made a more concrete case on Dormio and Huh what seperately. If it seems to you PX is likely to flip scum and one of them is his buddy, then you should be able to figure out if one of them is scum on their own. Schezo seems to think huh what and Dormio could be scum together, so I'd have to ask you if a town flip on PX would truly quell suspicions going towards those two.
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Re: Reading huh what - I totally lied so far, he seems pretty huh whatty to me.
@Dormio: Let me get that straight, that post was just for your benefit? Not a case at all? So you basically voted for a townie to get lynched, and didn't even leave a case or reasoning why.
I think you are misrepresenting Dormio here. Can you please show me where he said he thought LLD was town, either before or after he voted for her?
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Not necessarily quell, but make it less likely. Dormio has an intersection of being on the current PX wagon and being a possibly party defended by PX's vote, so he wouldn't be completely cleared. (Really, no one would be, just that it would be far far more likely that there is at least one scum on the PX wagon at this point, if PX is town. The fact that everyone currently on the PX wagon is either myself or in my green list should give you an idea of just how little faith I place in PX flipping town)
Anyway, I don't really know how to make the case more concrete on Dormio. Literally all he has done is spent every post of his saying how awful I am. The one or two times he DOESN'T, it's making a...weird case on K4U I still don't get. He doesn't even answer your question until, like, halfway through D2 where he posts an IIoA list of his opinions on people. I don't feel this is town behavior. He's not even examining his case on me to understand why it's so bad. He's just restating the same points over and over until people give in. It's gotten to the point I've had to do the same because he gives me pretty much nothing new to work with.
HW is trickier. I see now why his little "Bard is dead, who is scum" thing isn't as town intended as initially thought. I can also see where his defense against you was a bit defensive. I also don't really know what he thinks outside of Dormio scum. So, I guess what I want from him at the moment is to tell me who he thinks is scum and why, besides Dormio. As I said, rereading HW's posts gave me a bad feeling. I just don't know how much of this is gut and how much of this is longing to go along with a lynch that a lot of good players support (like yourself, Kiro, etc.)
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The first post was made at midnight, so I forgot to mention the LLD post.
So for what reasons I agree with the LLD case, mostly this post, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660260.html#msg660260) the refusal to answer reasonably questions.
Captain Dorian:
Your D1 consisted of calling Schezo and K4U suspicious (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660440.html#msg660440), and then calling LLD scum without giving a read on anybody else. Your K4U read, you say you understand her case on Kiro, but disagree with it. Why does that make her suspicious if you understand her line of reasoning? The Schezo read, you're clearly not reading his post correctly.
At a glance, Dormio looks suspicious to me, but I have to do a proper reread of his posts after work. I agree with huh what's case on him; frankly, while there are many things to attack Bardiche for, his vig shot was not sufficient until proven real or fake. Once again, Dormio being Dormio (like last game, where he attacked LLD for the miller claim similarly as town) means that I'm not sure about him yet.
But this was pregame, where there was nothing to vote each other for except random shit, hence RVS. Also, I don't think that's HW's case on Durrmio at all.
Your D2 posts consists of calling a lot of people suspicious, with Dormio as "reportery, passive, and non-commital" and "fairly likely to be scum". Please, show examples of this.
...Reading your post, you don't explain why people are suspicious, except for two noticeable people: Dormio and UK. And they come with reasons other people stated already. It looks like your LLD case, and the reason why it looks wrong as said by Zak. "Which to me means he was probably trying too hard to find a reason [Insert Someone's Name] hadn't already covered."
tl;dr: Asking people for updated reads, giving people really waffly reads without explanations, and the ones you do you give generic reasons that others have used.
##Vote: Capt. H
Shadoweh:
I'm sad that Shadoweh stopped mentioning Huh What. SHADOWEH, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HUH WHAT CURRENTLY?
God, this game is killing my brain, so I'm cutting up this post and putting the rest of it in another post to be made somewhere in the near future.
EDIT: CUT BY EIGHT POSTS, GOD DAMMIT IT PESCO STOP FUCKING WITH MY ACCOUNT SETTINGS!!!!!!
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PX. That doesn't answer my question. When you voted LLD here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660076.html#msg660076), at 176, Bard's 217 here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660260.html#msg660260) did not exist. Literally NOTHING had changed between LLD's post and your post. She had not even reacted to Bard's case. Please answer my question. Why did you vote LLD without any telegraphing of your vote, and why did you unvote me if my provided reasoning for why your case was wrong is something you didn't like?
You're intent is completely unclear and despite being pressed SEVERAL TIMES you've failed to make it clearer.
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@Kiro - Call it "just for coasting," if you'd like, but it felt to me at the time that Shadoweh was just hanging around and asking questions without making any real conclusions out of them. I can see scum intent pretty easily in that. The reaction to the vig shot bit was a minor point added as a clarification, and I'm a bit disappointed that people are using that as the meat of my case when that wasn't how it was intended. Once Shadoweh responded and actually put out a vote, that alleviated my concerns enough that I'm not going to consider her a priority for today.
In other news, K4U is a bit displeased I dropped her Dormio case and is pointing some stuff out to me about Dormio that is making me a bit uneasy about him. Dormio, does your UK case honestly boil down to "being weird D1" and not answering questions? At this point it feels like you're trying too hard to hold on to a case you can't really support. I want you to expand your case if you apparently still believe in it, or at least state it in a form that doesn't read as IIoA. >_>
K4U also agrees with me that PX is looking worse now that she can read his posts, but now I have to read this new PX post to see if this changes anything.
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1) Already answered -.-
I was skimming with limited time and saw LLD's post as strange. She cleared UK by calling the wagon "laughable", copying only Dormio's reasons for voting UK, when he wasn't even voting for her, and using an objective read to clear her. And then she uses another objective read to call Shadoweh scum if she doesn't die to a fake vig. And then proceeds to vote Bardiche. I wanted her to do a better post.
2) You would have just used that point to justify everything you did, and just spout how the case was invalid. I was not going to spend time and energy arguing over that. So I just dropped the entire thing.
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Fair enough on 2, 1 doesn't explain anything. You had many opportunities to read LLD's post. You posted several times after she had posted. What made it suddenly magically strange, conveniently when a wagon on LLD seemed possible? You refuse to explain this still.
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Because I really have to stop posting after midnight. I meant to talk about the LLD post in the previous post, but forgot to. Also, one vote a wagon does not make. Are you accusing me of making the wagon, building the wagon, starting the wagon, or jumping on for no reason?
Also, I forgot this.
CAPT. H: Thoughts on me considering I'm the leading wagon currently
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You were either the second or third vote. Fairly sure you were the second. While it might not have been a wagon per se, it had still become a viable place to put your vote.
I'm not satisfied with your answers but I'm not going to get anything else out of you.
What I'm accusing you of is building the wagon in a way that could be trying either to build a counterwagon or to avoid supporting the two likely wagons for some unknown reason. Given how much your play appears to have scum intent, I'm going to guess that unknown reason has something to do with Dormio or HW.
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Okay, I hate everything.
Let me rewrite my the second half of my post (#363 stupid preview button) for your viewing convenience.
- Firstly, in #71, why did you single out PX, and only PX, for not taking the confirmation phase seriously when there were several people who weren't posting at all?
- Secondly, it feels as though you're being overly aggressive in order to discourage people from making cases on you. I get this feeling from the way you insulted PX for calling you out for something that you yourself admitted to doing, and from your #145, and your #373 response to me, as well as when you call people stupid and refuse to answer questions.
- Thirdly, I asked you about your "I use vigs the same way" (#49) comment, you ignored me. Later in #145, you state your explanation and claim to have said it already. If you really did say it another time between #49 and #145, could you please link it to me? Because, otherwise, I believe it was another lie to demoralize anybody that attacks you.
- In addition, in #164, you say yourself that you are backtracking regarding Bardiche. PX tries to call you out on this. You insult him for it. Why does the fact that you yourself stated it make it any less scummy? For example, if I were to leave a miserable pile of WIFOM in a topic, but leave the disclaimer "btw, I'm going to use WIFOM", does that make it completely fine?
- I still heavily dislike your #46, and your final response to my D1 accusations was "I see no need to continue this conversation unless you have something new to bring to the table." (#102). And people wonder why I was never satisfied with the outcome of that.
- Also, your "I will only answer questions if I feel like it" in #308 is all kinds of bad. You've spent the entire game pushing around your lynches whilst refusing to look at what the other townies have to say to you, bar the super obvious stuff or things that you'd look terrible for not answering. Anything that you can find an excuse for, you refuse to answer.
- During D1, you kept giving me shit because I didn't expand my case on you. Hey, look, your LLD switch, what reasoning did it have again? "LLD used this tell, which usually means she's scum." What other reasoning did you say you had, again? #303, LLD was "avoiding questions". Hey, guess what? The supposed tell that LLD used is for avoiding questions. So your entire reasoning for jumping to LLD consisted of "LLD used this tell." Oh, and to make everything better, in #303, you state that LLD, in fact, did NOT use the tell, and you just misread her. Hypocrite.
- Oh, hey, your latest post. (#401) And you give me shit for going into conspiracy theory land. "Yay PX is probably scum, let's fling some shit on Dormio and Huh What for no goddamn reason.
Also.
inb4IgetinsultedheavilybyUKforthispost
@Dormio: I'm not going to try to pull anything out of that bloody mess you made. It's absolutely unreadable and I still have the game to reread. If there's anything you want to ask, post it in bullet point format, with spaces, and clear formatting.
The concise version of your case seems to be, once again, someone using that word "weird" rather than telling me why I'm acting with scum intent. Then misrepping me on LLD, because while I initially PRESSED LLD for the "tell", I actually VOTED her for being manifestly unhelpful and obstinate in the face of reasonable questioning, which felt like it had scum intent, and finally, something that I always do because most of the questions I get are dumb as fuck and huge noise generators?
A+ CASE THERE DURRMIO!
I'm...just not even going to bother. Go play with your blocks Dormio, the adults are talking.
Totally called it.
Now, going to be writing another post for whatever happened whilst I was sleeping.
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Oh, and does anyone want to place bets?
Will UK actually respond to my post or will UK just degrade and insult me again.
I think I'll put my money on the latter.
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Oh, prime example of the second point from UK.
Give it the fuck up Zak, you have nothing on me and you're wasting fucktons of effort not telling us ANYTHING about your intent besides really wanting me lynched. I tire of it.
"Your entire post was meaningless and you are stupid for even trying to cast doubt on how obviously townie I am."
That pretty much sums up that post, does it not?
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Also, regarding UK's #383 comment about my #75.
Uh, so what?
Is there anything bad about me acknowledging that a gameplay element that the mod has given us plenty of warning about will probably be in effect?
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Or we go about this civilly-ish.
So, Haha, can you respond why you thought LLD was scum? Subtracting the reports?
I'm re-reading thread to go see if there's scum slipping through the seams by just being generally glib. Lurkers everywhere, everyone's scum. PX saw what happened to Lambda and spends a lot of time answering questions it's like we need to do that song and dance all over again but let's not words are hard Haha save me :(
##Unvote
Lynching and OPINIONS SCUMS EVERYWHERE will have to wait until I'm done re-reading.
UK calm down, Haha stop baiting her, Shadoweh what absolved Dormio of your attention for the day since you were tooting for his lynch PRETTY DURN HARD the other Day and then you suddenly went after me because RAEG and all these wrong things about it and then you hang around with no vote until page 13 where you bandwagon hop teh PX GUT VOTE TIME because wth.
I'll provide a coherent case but this is mostly gut, amplified by how she opened the day voting me, then let that vote go, SPENDS MOST OF HER TIME REACTIONARY INSTEAD OF ACTIVE and then votes PX at a time his bandwagon is growing rather strong. I don't want to lynch PX because he made posts I felt were town-motivated in D1 and this feels like a terrible repeat of LLD except less attempts to divert the wagon and more inattentiveness.
Also Shadoweh is scum for I don't think I support the case on Dormio anymore. I actually agree with alot of what Dormio's saying right now.
after pushing for his lynch sew hard the other day just what changed besides that Dormio isn't the popularest anymore? :toot:
##Vote: Shadoweh
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EBWOP I'll post a coherent case after I've slept, hopefully before deadline and otherwise, well, deal with it. :toot:
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Counting Votes Instead Of Something
PX (4) - Kiro, Shadoweh, Conqueror, UK
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (3) - huh what, capt. h, Chaore
huh what (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Hourai
CaptH (1) - PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 16.5 hours
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Haha stop baiting her
And two, that would require PX to actually think about his actions, which is a dubious claim given half the case on him is how dumb his cases on myself and LLD were.
Because UK isn't doing the same thing.
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Be a better man. :(
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Well, maybe I wouldn't insult you if you produced actual content rather than the same bullshit.
1. I "singled out" PX because he actually posted except it was only to say that he wasn't going to do anything serious. So, basically, he clearly had no objections to posting game stuff in the confirmation phase, yet he still was treating the game like it was in RVS. No.
2. Show me any questions I have actually refused to answer as opposed to just saying I don't HAVE to answer them but will anyway. Secondly, if the foo shits, wear it. And you and PX are covered in foo shit right now.
3. I stated it back in 43, and you chose to ignore that. I relink it in my wall post. If you're going to ask questions that have already been answered, you should probably ask more relevant questions.
4. Doesn't make it fine, I just said I literally didn't give a shit if people said I was backtracking. I never actually said I was backtracking, merely that people would call it such. PX deciding to jump on this LITERALLY THE POST AFTER I SAID THIS just proved my point. He wasn't scummy for that, he was scummy for continuing to push an awful case despite the fact he seemed to accept this was a thing I was saying. The majority of his "case" was pretty much broken with that statement, yet he posted it anyway as if it was still relevant, not even outright saying "I don't believe you" when I said I didn't believe Bard was scum.
5. I spent all of D1 answering your scatterbrained "accusations". You basically spent the entire day showing over and over you had no idea what you were talking about with regards to me. I've shown you SEVERAL WAYS the "confirmation bias" in 46 wasn't scummy. You instead decided that you'd engage in your own confirmation bias. In addition, with the fact I didn't actually consider Bard scum, 46 suddenly contains a lot less meaning, now doesn't it?
6. [[citation needed]]. While that was a thing I've said, I've never actually refused to answer any questions. Prove me wrong (protip, you can't).
7. Uh, no? That's not what happened at all. The "tell" I used on LLD was hypocrisy regarding accusing HW of something she herself appeared to be doing. It wasn't avoiding answering questions, it was "why me" posting. What got me to vote her WAS avoiding reasonable questions, which is something she actually did. Where am I a hypocrite again? Oh, right, Dormio land where you can accuse me of "not answering questions" with no actual real backing up of said things.
8. Let's see, 401 observes wagon behavior, observes people who have been acting independently scummy, and comes up with a theory that might explain a connection, based on defending a potential scumbuddy, i.e. NOT bussing for cred and killing half of your scumteam.
Your post that proposes a conspiracy theory that BY NECESSITY CANNOT WORK observes one person who ~*~might~*~ be independently scummy, in your worldview, bussing someone else, in a game where bussing cred literally only lasts until D3, kills half your team until N2, and FUCKING
ACKNOWLEDGES
THE
FUCKING
RECRUIT
MECHANIC
THAT
HAPPENS
ON
NIGHT
FUCKING
TWO!
Answer. That. Fucking. Question. I. Asked. In. My. Wall. About. That.
What. The. Fuck. Were. You. Even. Thinking?
Much headaches later, that should address every shred of bullshit you've been trying to stick to me.
Dormio cuts: Whatever on Zak. I've addressed his points time and time again. If he's going to woohoo tunnel on me, so fucking be it.
*head desk* about your 75.
HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES HAVE I GONE OVER WHY BUSSING FOR CRED IS NOT A GOD DAMNED VIABLE STRATEGY IN THIS FUCKING GAME!? BY ACKNOWLEDGING THE FUCKING MECHANIC YOU FUCKING UNDERCUT YOUR OWN
GODDAMN
CASE!
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU NOT REALIZE THIS!?
@Bard: Yes, I know I should calm down but it's pretty fucking hard when the people attacking you are using the worst bloody logic and I'm literally losing brain cells by responding to their every point because the points are JUST SO BAD. And no, this isn't discreditation because I've fucking SHOWN how they are bad and for god's sake asdgnhjaerhn' bfeasn.ekvearbfuld
@Dormio: Merely observing exactly what people will try to undercut my case on PX with. Probably in a nicer way.
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EBWOP: Rather, I'll be undercut in a nicer way. Yeah, I was a bit cruel to PX. Honestly, I should probably just not look at this game til later tonight because I am so livid I've stopped caring about being civil. You'll excuse me if I try to avoid posting for a couple hours.
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I'm here, PX.
Captain Dorian:
Your D1 consisted of calling Schezo and K4U suspicious (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660440.html#msg660440), and then calling LLD scum without giving a read on anybody else. Your K4U read, you say you understand her case on Kiro, but disagree with it. Why does that make her suspicious if you understand her line of reasoning?
My day 1 (not Dorian's) was only about 14 hours long, 8 of which I spent sleeping, which limited the amount of scum hunting I could do. Furthermore, the fact that I understood K4U's line of reasoning does not mean I agreed with it. I did not consider the case adequate.
I disagree with any case on Huh What that uses his creation of a false dichotomy pre-game, because he was one of the players that was in the first 7. By definition, a scum flip on him would nullify the theory that he was creating a false dichotemy by showing it wasn't false. The forcing players to focus on the first 7 players argument is, in my view, outright disproven by his scum flip since it proves that he was right about forcing focus on the first seven players.
In response to when Dormio was passive and non-commital, I will say I did not like this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660337.html#msg660337). I will be updating this read after I do a closer reading of his more recent posts.
I reported on five players in my 337 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661708.html#msg661708) PX, only 4 I consider suspicious. My Hourai and Schezo reads were incomplete and indeed partially fueled by a lack of content, which is where the suspicion comes from. I'm still not sure of those two. Hourai claims he saw LLD crumbing her role (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662126.html#msg662126) - I would like him to point to which post LLD crumbs her role in. I don't like the implication that he knew it was the wrong wagon all along, considering he wasn't here. In addition, he never actually answered my request that he explain his Chaore case -
I would like to see examples of where Chaore pushes bad play as opposed to scummy play.
I actually think he looks quite a bit worse now, somewhere between suspicious and scummy. While I like that he has original points on Schezo and Chaore, if he can't show me how LLD was crumbing her role, he will probably become my top lynch.
Honestly PX, I'm not sure I want to go for your lynch, if only because your case on me is one of the strongest you've made in a while. It's still wrong, but I get the sense that you tried, and you bring up original points. Admittedly, you were not one of the players I reread yesterday, so I will have a more solid opinion of you tonight after I finish my rereads, but you are not a high priority.
Warning - while you were typing 11 new trains have been choo chooed. You may wish to review your post.
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UK stop cutting me so I can get my other post out of the way gddmt.
1. Okay, so PX is bad for that reason, why not the others?
2. This is different from 6. This one isn't about not answering questions, but instead the way you've been trying to discourage anybody that has a case on you with emotive words.
3. 43, huh? You mean the post where you stated it, but no explanation whatsoever?
4. "Hey guys, this thing I'm doing might look like a certain behaviour, but it really isn't and if you call me out for it I will fucking kill you."?
5. If you really didn't consider Bardiche to be scum, #46 looks a lot more like that thing you said you didn't do.
7. And "why me?" posting ISN'T avoiding questions?
8. Because "What I'm accusing you of is building the wagon in a way that could be trying either to build a counterwagon or to avoid supporting the two likely wagons for some unknown reason. Given how much your play appears to have scum intent, I'm going to guess that unknown reason has something to do with Dormio or HW." is so specific, am I right?
I'm stupid and durr hurr and how do I words. So, can you explain to me exactly why acknowledging the game mechanic was bad? Can you tell me how I invalidated my own thoughts?
Making another post for 6.
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6. Actually, I'll concede this one.
I was also mixing up my second and sixth point.
I still stand by everything else though.
Now, to finally go make that other post.
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Firstly, all the flak I'm getting for my jump onto LLD at the end of D1.
I was not particularly looking at either of them throughout the day, because I believed that both were more likely to be town than scum.
However, there was like an hour left in the day, and the wagons could have easily been tied so that the lynch was decided by a coin flip.
I really didn't like the sound of that and did a quick read through both LLD and Huh What. Naturally, it was pretty rushed.
Out of the two, I concluded that it was more likely that LLD would be scum, and so I moved my vote to LLD.
In other words, I would have rather seen LLD flip than Huh What, and coin flips are terrible.
Reading more brb.
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@Dormio: Let me get that straight, that post was just for your benefit? Not a case at all? So you basically voted for a townie to get lynched, and didn't even leave a case or reasoning why.
I did leave reasoning why. :/
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LLD thoughts: I didn't like it, the entire thing made me uneasy. If see the frustration and urge to lynch someone who wouldn't comply with things asked. I agree it could have been handled a bit better with less emotion, but I probably would have been upset at that too and voted her.
HW: Kiro- I will admit I had not considered the point you raised about how the n2 mechanics (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661844.html#msg661844)factor into him wanting to bus a buddy from ED1 and to continue gunning for him now. This makes me less sure of my Dormio read even if he is terrible, I think he may just be super townie derp.
I feel this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660344.html#msg660344) is being over defensive against points raised against him. Then he busts out a double standard of sorts by holding Shadoweh to a vote on Dormio, who he also thought was scum over a bad meta read from another game. What? He then does a strange spat with UK about holding LLD to something over calling Hourai town when UK and LLD were the only ones who had so far and LLD was the only one to get scrutiny. Now that she's flipped town this leaves me with a lot of discontent. And as much as I would like to stand in my glass house and throw stones at him for not being around at the end of day 1, I wasn't there, along with most of the game, so that point's less valid than I would like it to be.
Needs a lynch.
Dormio: I can actually see being derp town who pushes bad cases. His long stream of consciousness on steroids (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661968.html#msg661968) posts he makes, really seals it to me as reading, "flustered townie" as opposed to floundering scum since that's exactly the way I get when I get put under a lot of pressure as town.
capt h: Is strange, he first calls me out on a misrep of me here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660440.html#msg660440). He apologizes for it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660547.html#msg660547), and later says his read on me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661367.html#msg661367) hasn't changed. This behaviour is odd, and I agree with the point PX raises against him, he responded but I still find him suspicious. What do you think of me now?
PX: Oh God, fuck it. I'll reread him and the cases on him in a minute, I'll just post this first.
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capt. h: "PX is making a decent case on me, maybe not scum."
I'm not quite getting that. Not to mention that his case applies to himself for the most part.
Not to mention that I'd already mentioned that you were being all fluffy in #369.
PX: Speaking of which!
Whatever I said up there about you.
Parroting cases? Asking people for updated reads? (Particularly on Huh What) Generic statements?
Don't all these apply to you, too?
As for the Conqueror/Kitten4u hybrid.
Writing another post because I got cut by Schezo.
Screw you Schezo.
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Oh, and on the capt. h part, the "applies to himself" is in regards to PX.
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Regarding the Conqueror/Kitten4u hybrid, again.
Your #397, are you calling it iioa, or are you saying that it looks like iioa?
I wrote a tidier version of it #402, is it still iioa?
I don't think I have anything else to add about Conqueror's actions so far.
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And to clarify the mixing up I said I did in #415.
Whilst I was doing my reread my brain parsed UK putting down people as not answering questions for whatever reason.
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...Dormio, I have no idea what you are asking of me.
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Not really asking you anything.
Just saying that you're doing all the things that you accused capt. h of doing.
Which makes you all scummy-like.
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Also, I think my current lynch priority goes something like:
UncertainKitten > PX > Kitten4u/Conqueror = Capt. h
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PX and Dormio-
I think the wagons are a bad idea and I would prefer a different lynch today. I still have a hard time buying into their scum intent and it just looks more like bad play to me.
UK-
She has been behind both of today's wagons, adding fuel and making sure they got a lot of speed. This makes me uneasy and if a town flip is had, I'd be looking at her with more scrutiny. If both end up town, then I will most likely make a case, barring a major change.
Schezo-
He has one case that he hasn't updated, and he's leaving himself open to jump on another wagon without actively pushing it. I no likey. Suddenly, cut by Schezo! I still don't like how his case is pretty passive and not pushing it as much as I would like. And now I have no idea what his priorities are. His next post will have to do a clear job at this.
Chaore-
@Hourai: Oh hey. You still exist. I love the town logic in 'they didn't vote immediately they MUST BE SCUM'. Lift that from Kiro? I held off voting because I wanted the two to post and explain what the fuck they were thinking so I could decide which I liked least. As it turns out they decided to wait a FULL DAY to get those posts out.
Please don't discredit me by putting words in my mouth and making up intents.
I don't understand how you couldn't have just voted who you thought was scummier at the time, and then just move it if your opinion changed, like a townie. You took a wait-and-see approach, which gives scum all the more power if you aren't scum yourself, between the two main wagons. And you've yet to even show suspicion outside your two suspects, one of which is most likely getting lynched. So we have no idea what you'll do or target afterwards.
I feel my case on Chaore is stronger, he's gotten scummier to me, and I see more scum intent in his actions, so without further ado,
##Unvote
##Vote Chaore
OK, time for questions~
Where was LLD crumbing? #203
Though, I realize I worded my statement poorly. I meant to aya that no where do you ever talk about my alignment.
I meant to aya
aya
This did not look like a normal typo to me, and considering the Touhou flavor in the game, it seemed much more likely to be a townie role than not.
Where was Chaore punishing bad play? In his first post, his case or suspicion on PX looked like it was focused on grilling him for his bad play, rather than saying why it was scummy or scum motivated. His recent posts take care of this point however, so I am not pressing this.
Hanged Hourai: I forgot he was playing. Just like in every other game. orz
:'[
Gonna get this follow-up post out there... for you, because you're special.
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GOD OKAY I'M READING HUH WHAT AGAIN
Okay, I think I understand what bothered me earlier and I can actually pose this in questions huh what can answer.
I think it was pretty obvious why UK looked like the best of the three Bard voters at that point. PX was derping around and Dormio was attacking UK while keeping his vote on the largest wagon.
No, it wasn't. I remember saying that these obvious points were bad, but I see that I should have asked you to clarify this. More then one person stated a dislike of UK's actions at that point in time. Why was it obvious? PX was derping around (ie waiting for the action to resolve or not) and Dormio was attacking UK while keeping his vote on the largest wagon (ie continuing to state he thought Bard was scum if it wasn't a gambit but attacking his secondary scum target) but what was UK doing that was so townie at the time?
Your only contribution to the Lambda wagon was to say you didn't like PX's case on her, but I note you never made an opinion on HER at the time. The reason you said you didn't like his case is because it was weak and looked bad, but looking over your comments on both him and myself, you never really address why this is. It's easy to say 'this case looks weak' and 'that vote looked bad', but there's no reasoning behind it. It's bad because of what, general perception? In fact you never allude to what you thought of it before your weird post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661659.html#msg661659) where you're trying to.. I'm not sure what you were trying to do. I think you were trying to find a way to word a question to UK without attracting her ire, which on its own is understandable. but I think I consider it scummy because there's no follow up to her answer to you.
Speaking of meta-tells, I remember something else this entire situation reminded me of. Let's play reading the past, where Bardiche says the jokevote stage is over (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581550.html#msg581550), then huh what slims down the suspect pool into our lynches by slamming people for attacking someone townie (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8718.msg581626.html#msg581626). I think this story ends with people calling for my lynch so I really hope that doesn't happen again. @_@ Seriously though huh what, I asked you why Bard ending RVS was townie because you were there when he did it as scum! It's almost the same words too! Saying his posts are townie because 'They seem logical' is just more good sounding words and doesn't even tell me what points of his you agree with!
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I've given up this UK suspicion, I'm pretty sure the rage is just rage at this point for feeling misrepped. UK does not like being a viable wagonz. This does mean I want Dormio and Zakeri to find another solid case, she's town, sorry.
And look, about Dormio. The only way what he's doing makes sense to me is if he's scum partners with UncertainKitten or possibly Kitten4Conqueror. Or both. Both would make more sense to me. If you don't believe in this (I don't right now) then you can't believe in scum Dormio. His reaction to the vig shot is alot like his reaction to the miller claim, and seizing on an early point and pressing it strikes me alot like his case against Comedian as Kyon. Instead of giving up he's continued to try and find more ways to impress his unpopular opinion on us. I don't think he's scum.
Considering I keep wondering why everyone hates PX's posts and calls them horrible while agreeing with his thoughts about huh what (and that I really needed to stop :effort:ing and reread him) I'm not sure how I feel about him either. I'll go take a look at capt.h next and see if I think it's a good case. Basically his second post answered my concern about his focus, though I don't think it answered what he thinks about Dormio.
So yeah, I dislike All the wagons now, congrats me. These are the three names huh what dropped too, so it's awkward that they ended up receiving the most votes. I don't think it would make sense for huh what to be with either of them considering PX and Dormio are the names he dropped and focused on early, so I'm going to kickstart this again.
##Unvote
##Vote: huh what
I'm feeling much better now. Everyone seems suspicious to me again, except for UK. YOU'RE ALL SCUM. I think I've been cut 24 times so far, so I'll see if PX and Dormio have done something like claimed scum to make me regret this.
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:effort:
How was me finding Bard looking townie for his posting quality problematic when UK and Lambda finding Hourai to be townie for similiar reasons was apparently completely fine?
I'll post something more serious eventually, but that immediately stuck out to me.
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That's not what was problematic, and I fail to see how that's relevant. I asked you to justify the read and you really didn't. I dislike this 'Why me and not UK or Lambda' diversion. (See what I did there?)
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I predicted somebody would complain about that, so no you're not clever. <_< I honestly think that's a stupid tell (especially considering that it has been used to catch town both times it was used this game!), but eh.
I'm writing a post right now.
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Who is Bard referring to when he says "Haha"? He acts like it's a name, and I'm wondering if it's a filter or something. It's confusing me.
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Haha is me.
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Oh.
Fuck it. I'm trying to be coherent but I don't think I'm really in the right mindset to read people. I'm almost done with my post, though.
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I've almost finished rereading everyone, and I just am having the hardest time finding players that still look like scum. PX is playing more town than I've seen for at least 3 games in that he's actually putting effort into his scum hunting and making cases. Dormio has taken a very clear and firm stance on UK and pushing it hard, which nullifies my previous vote of him. Hourai has pointed to exactly what his problem with Chaore is, and I can't say I really have a problem with Chaore other than maybe a gut suspicion. And Schezo is still suspicious with the way he says in his last post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662440.html#msg662440) that Huh What needs a lynch, but he hesitates to call Huh What scummy - I don't think he has a strong read on Huh What. Most the post was about how players made him uneasy/read town, and there wasn't much of a push behind it.
Shadoweh, you're day 2 is really all over the place.
Since day 1, you've gone from Dormio being your top scum pick to protecting him with the following false dichotomy, while taking away one of the essential tenants of the dichotomy (scum UK):
I've given up this UK suspicion, I'm pretty sure the rage is just rage at this point for feeling misrepped. UK does not like being a viable wagonz. This does mean I want Dormio and Zakeri to find another solid case, she's town, sorry.
And look, about Dormio. The only way what he's doing makes sense to me is if he's scum partners with UncertainKitten or possibly Kitten4Conqueror. Or both. Both would make more sense to me. If you don't believe in this (I don't right now) then you can't believe in scum Dormio. His reaction to the vig shot is alot like his reaction to the miller claim, and seizing on an early point and pressing it strikes me alot like his case against Comedian as Kyon. Instead of giving up he's continued to try and find more ways to impress his unpopular opinion on us. I don't think he's scum.
You also start clearing PX and questioning the other cases on PX in spite of your previous vote on him. Don't assume I can keep up. Walk me through what exactly you found about them that made you reconsider your reads on PX and decide UK is town. I find it all a little suspicious.
I'm having a very hard time seeing scum Huh What. None of the points made against him stick out to me when I read him in isolation except his overreaction to your attacks.
Sorry, I'm having an off night. My current reads are that I'm somewhat opposed to a PX, Dormio, or a Huh What lynch after a great deal of thought. I'll make sure to pick a better scum pick before bed.
##Unvote
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##Unvote
##Vote PX
I've been fairly suspicious of PX for a while, as seen here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661654.html#msg661654), but the way he has recently been conducting himself just certifies him as terrible in my mind. I absolutely resent his claim that we should not look at the people on the Lambda wagon too closely, because looking at the only flipped townie wagon is one of the most effective ways to hunt scum at this point in the game. Given that PX was on the wagon himself, his attempt to drive us away from Lambda is just mind-blowingly infuriating to me.
But even aside from that, just about everything in PX's #355 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661952.html#msg661952) irks me a lot, especially in hindsight now that he has placed his vote on capt.h. He claims to be torn between voting me and Dormio, and yet HE BARELY EVEN HAS A CASE ON EITHER OF US. What's worse is that he claims that I look like the better of the two when he JUST SAID that Dormio isn't even looking like scum to him. These were the people PX was considering voting, folks. Both of them looked like town to him. I don't even know how this could possibly be classified as derp, even if it's coming from PX. This is a blatantly obvious example of scum not knowing how to prioritize their cases or even make any. He's still basically borrowing from others in that post, too, as he's just considering the most common options rather than making his own case. But what bugs me even more is the way he later jumps on capt.h by completely dropping his comments on Dormio and me. It's like he was looking for wagons to jump on but just... gave up suddenly. I really can't explain why town or scum could do this, actually, but my personal hypothesis is that it was an indirect response to the amount of ire his post about me and Dormio gained - he did not address the complaints directly (argh why has PX not been defending himself at all this game), and is instead pretending they do not exist. Plus, jumping on a wagon unlikely to draw attention makes him less likely to be judged the following day - his initial jump on Lambda could possibly be seen as an attempt to do something like this as well, if he did not anticipate it taking off. I would personally summarize a majority of his recent actions as a textbook example of scum flailing.
On the other hand... I'm just going to be completely srs mode here and say that I really can not see Dormio as scum at this point. Maybe the Durrrmio vibes are finally setting in, I don't know. But I think the way he continues to press his UK case and conspiracy theories in the face of constant rebuttals and other posters telling him how weak the case is when the UK wagon barely even has a chance of taking off strongly shows that he is a genuine townie with a genuine opinion. Just, a terrible opinion that he is tunneling on. <_< I still maintain that his earlygame is awful, but... I don't feel comfortable attacking him anymore. Still, though, I want to know what he thinks of people who aren't UK. The tunneling is absolutely annoying even if I think it looks like townie tunneling because it means he's not really seeming to consider any other opinions to a notable extent. Zak has a similiar problem in my opinion (though his version of the UK case is less completely insane), and I want to know which of the current wagons he would most likely want to pass through as the day's lynch as well.
I'm finding that Chaore's content has been rubbing me the wrong way a lot. Not only was his initial stance on the Lambda wagon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660554.html#msg660554) somewhat waffly, but it was basically set up so he would never have to commit to a true stance on her actions. Since she was unlikely to show up at the end of the day, he basically put himself in a situation where he could coast by having a "I find her actions bad, but not really scummy" opinion because she was never going to return to defend herself. Even the way he started off D2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661632.html#msg661632) makes him seem waffly regarding the Lambda wagon. So yeah, I'm very nervous about Chaore's nebulous stance on the Lambda wagon. If PX is indeed scum like I believe he is, I think I would most likely want Chaore lynched next, because even though Chaore has thrown out the possibility of PX scum, he has chosen to keep his vote on Dormio multiple despite acting as if PX is just as bad. Which isn't too awful in itself, but Chaore hasn't really come off as very commited to his PX stance in my opinion. The way he goes "I'm willing to see him die" after a few minor attacks makes it seem like he's trying to push PX and cheer on the people chasing that wagon, but not actually have to full-on consider the PX case a priority. I don't know if I'm making sense here.
capt.h still bugs me as well, his jump on Dormio seems notably weak to me because of the way he presented it. The way he wanted Dormio to give more recent stances makes me assume that capt.h was only pressing him, but capt.h still commited to his Dormio attack like it was a serious vote. It also seems odd that capt.h would consider UK suspicious, given that he considers Dormio to be "fairly likely to be scum". Dormio has been on UK for a majority of the game, and it has been discussed several times that hard bussing is not an effective strategy in this game, so the way capt.h went about his UK suspicion really makes me wonder if he was just throwing out suspicion on a townie he could potentially jump on later. I also felt that capt.h's Lambda jump from D1 was inconsistant due to the way capt.h's previous post came out, and I believe I already explained that in my earlier wallpost today. The fact that PX is voting capt.h right now doesn't really deter me because PX's capt.h vote looks like a last-ditch attempt at getting out a case and I could easily see scum!PX attempting to get out some last-minute Dormio-tier insane bussing, or at least when it's obvious that a capt.h lynch wouldn't even take off at this point. It's certainly not as unlikely as a hard bus, anyway, since PX hasn't really attacked capt.h up until this point as far as I know.
It should be noted that the way the two people who irk me the most aside from PX are voting Dormio is another factor in me choosing to lay off of Dormio for now.
Okay, really, I don't know why so many people are interpretting my earlygame question as trying to force a dichotomy. As far as I'm aware, building early cases on people is how we gain more opinions to consider and possibly even pick scum out of, which helps us evolve what stage of the game we are currently in. If everybody was just going to attack Bardiche alone, we would have had trouble analyzing opinions due to the lack of solid cases aside from "Bard may have possibly shot a townie!!", which would have given us a rockier start. It doesn't help that those cases would have been completely invalid after the truth behind Bard's shot was revealed. From my point of view, I was just trying to help the earlygame move along and potentially give everyone more content to work with. I didn't think it would have excluded the 7 players who didn't post, because at the time I was not under the impression they were avoiding the game due to its current stage, and I figured that their opinions when they arrived could have still been potentially telling and we could have updated our own stances/votes as they appeared. Because that's how the earlygame usually seems to play out with people who don't post until ~24 hours into the game. In short, I had pro-town intent and did not consider the possibility that I could be forcing a dichotomy, because I didn't even see the earlygame that way. And even if I was, I would have potentially been directing town to a dichotomy including myself, which wouldn't been a particularly effective tactic of scummy obfuscation at that point because I could have drawn unnecessary attention to myself. So ehhh.
Also, it's seeming to me that UK is only accusing me of scum because she wants to think I'm scum rather than that she actually does, which seems really odd to me because I've never actually seen a player act like they want to suspect another player before. I don't know. @_@ I get weird vibes from her attacks on me.
One more thing. I'm Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Vanilla Townie and human. I'm not sure how to explain the flavor in my PM without essentially paraphrasing it and getting modkilled, but given that I am not really familiar with PC-98 Touhou at all, its relation to Chiyuri is completely lost on me anyway. Pre-emptive claim, maybe, but I haven't been the most active poster this game due to generally feeling lackadaisical (plus I'm simultaneously tired and irritated with the game in general right now so I'm probably not going to be too active for the rest of the day, if I go to bed early like I plan to then I'll try to set my alarm for before deadline though), and several people (PX, Kiro, UK) are currently in a position where they could probably slip onto my wagon and kill me in an end-of-day lynch rush if they wanted to, which means that I don't particularly consider myself safe despite only having two votes. Maybe I'm just paranoid. So there you have it.
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Ow. Fuck. That was pretty much a novel. I hope it actually makes sense. <_<
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THIS VOTECOUNT SPONSORED BY BEEPDOG (http://polsy.org.uk/lp/beepdog.swf)
PX (4) - Kiro, Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (2) - Schezo, Shadoweh
CaptH (1) - PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
PX is at L-3!
Not voting: capt. h
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
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@huh what: I said stuff already though. :(
#369 for stuff on PX and capt. h, and more about those two in #419.
I also dislike the Kitten4u/Conqueror, and am curious about his what his answer to my #421 will be.
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Dormio response:
1. What others? Everyone else put at least SOME reaction in. PX was yoohooing on RVS. I don't count K4U's reaction as "being here" since she was saying posting in confirmation was kind of dickish. I don't count Shadoweh's reactions (which were still more than PX gave) because, yanno, she thought she was dead.
2. OK? Anyway, it kind of doesn't help when all the cases on me ARE really bad, and once again, I've shown why in pretty much all cases except (arguably) Zak's.
3. 43 should have explained itself. PX is fairly obviously the ~*~anti-town player~*~, to the point I'd call him a VI. If I really had to explain that, I'm...really not sure if there's any possible way for me to explain anything to you.
4. Well, if that's what you want to think. You're at the point where you're tunneling so hard, nothing I say will get through to you.
5. Elaborate? What thing did I say I didn't do?
7. Uh, no? I mean, it can be used that way, but I'm fairly sure that's not a thing I initially accused her of.
8. It's clear enough if you think about it. I'm not sold on PX, I just think his lynch is both likely enough to provide a scum flip AND likely enough to provide information regardless so I'm willing to push it.
Again, it's been explained several times. I even explained it in that post. Bussing cred, right? So you kill your teammate and try to solo to D3. N2, someone gets recruited into the mafia. Guess what happens to EVERYONE'S CRED this game. Yeah, it goes the fuck away. So you were proposing I'd throw away a team mate for ~*~bussing cred~*~, likely my only other team mate (fun fact, I realized recently 2 scum wasn't confirmed, I was just assuming based on normal balance given the Mark of the Wold mechanic), to survive for two days without suspicion, in a game that gets a reboot D3. Things don't work like that, Dormio.
Hmm...so, this is totally going to be filed away as UK crushing suspicion because she's whiny and defensive again, but I'd like you all to consider this at least about Hourai's point on me. He's saying that if one of the lynches I support flips town, he'll look at me with more scrutiny. That's cool, I fully expect. Hell, when I realized that my 3 main suspects were all the wagons today, I expected to get a lot of flak for it. I'm kind of impressed I'm *not*. But...something feels kind of weird that it would take BOTH wagons flipping scum for him to make a case on me. First, it feels like he's planning to make sure both die, and knows they'll flip town. And secondly, that it would take two town flips for him to make a case on me. That gives me awful, awful vibes.
Um...actually, I don't want to comment on the Chaore case. I have thoughts and I'm not sure how I feel about them. Expect me to explain this in more detail day three. (I'll note we have less than 12 hours left in the day. We are not fucking up a majority lynch this time)
After all the transcribing I had to do, HW's post looks like :words words words:, though I did read his explanation of his early game dichotomy. I still don't like it. You're right, I want to think you're scum. Kiro, Shadoweh, K4U at some point? have been voting you. These are not people I ignore lightly. And I see a couple of their points. But I'm not feeling that you're completely scum outside of a gut read I have on you.
I am completely unclear on what Dormio thinks after his wall on me. Could you concisely state your opinions on not me, outside of town or scum? Like, elaborate things, ask what you want to ask, etc.
I want to see at least two votes on PX within the next hour, because we are not doing a 5 person lynch again.
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Firstly, I should be around until the deadline or an hour before it and am willing to switch to PX at that time.
I should really not be posting in mafia right now but let's do this.
BRB writing.
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Theoretically I should be up an hour or two before deadline. Which one it actually will be is difficult to discern since apparently deadline moved to 11:00 AM EDT?
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Shadoweh: I think that's what I wondered about. Now I see it was requested of you by PX who when you acknowledged that he wanted you to look at it, you also voted him. You said he had no scum reads while incidentally acknowledging that he had one. Was it PX's post that made you change your read on Dormio? That is all kinds of confusing and I think capt.h has beaten me to asking you to lay out your thought processes on your vote changes today. And when you suddenly decide the Dormio case is no good, why bother looking specifically at HW? You said you were suspicious of K4U/Conquerer in #361 and your quick comment about him in #366 didn't indicate that your fears of him have been allayed. With your switch to HW in #427, I see you'll look at capt.h but I notice no mention of Conquerer's individual scumminess. I'll just put it simply, it looks like you're distancing from Conquerer. Has any of his posts since your #366 struck you as bad considering he only has Dormio and PX as his choices today?
Regarding Conquerer: he let Shadoweh go after she produced a case and vote. So it looked like he was easy to please regarding her, as if his vote was merely a prod. Not what we should be seeing in mid Day 2. The feeling of ignoring each other seems to be reciprocal as well. As for his updated reads, Conquerer definitely gives a waffly opinion on both Dormio and PX. Call it hydra syndrome, but you listed a bunch of things that made you think Dormio had Townie moves when you first replaced in #358. My question to you is based on the question you asked Dormio in #397 (which it looks like K4U provided for you), how does that one question possibly invalidate your previous Town impressions of Dormio?
To answer Shadoweh's question about where this puts me on PX, at the time you asked it, it would make me wary he is a mislynch now since your vote put PX in a tie with Dormio and Conquerer's happened to put PX in the lead after. But now since Bard has unvoted PX and you also unvoted PX recently, the idea that PX could be a buddy you were trying to bus is also there. Whether that would have been worth it before the Night 2 mechanic kicked in, I'm actually not sure. The HW wagon is actually feasible again and I need to rethink it again based on whatever he posts today. The wagons are really close now and I now see for sure I better make myself available for deadline in the morning.
Cut by HW: Ah new content post. Will consider it all, probably make a firm decision whether to keep my vote on PX or move it to possibly Shadoweh, Conquerer or HW before I go to bed tonight and check in in the morning before deadline for any last minute changes that might be deemed fit. I don't think my earlier tertiary picks Schezo or capt.h would be viable lynches today.
UK: Since you're around, how could everything fit based on what some of my stances. I'm getting swirly-eyed possibly framing my cases on scumpairs. Do you think PX redeemed himself in any way by making what looks like a reasonable case on capt.h? How does HW fit into scum PX since you're a bit wary of him? Do you have any comment about Shadoweh dropping PX for HW and Bard's switch from PX to Shadoweh?
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If I'm being perfectly honest? Everything I know is wrong, every wagon is terrible, but I'm only up for another hour at most so I need to push SOMETHING to an actual lynch, because a majority lynch is going to be valuable information. I can't really unvote and go for an off wagon, because that would be pretty bad. I'll be providing a list of updated reads D3 now that I've removed my own head from my ass, but it would be chaos causing if I did it right now. We do not need chaos, we need organization.
HW is a moderately agreeable wagon, and if it reaches a size where I'd be swing voting away from PX, I'd be willing to join it. That said, if PX is lynched, I'll look back at the PX wagon should he flip town like I'm becoming increasingly afraid of. I'm kind of getting that feeling I got when I was pushing LLD in the last hour of D1.
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UK: As far as I'm aware, K4U hasn't voted me at all. In her last post, she said she felt I was town, so... yeah.
Also, judging a case's worth by the players who are presenting it is silly considering that you do not know what alignment those players have. <_<
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I have town reads on all of them. I trust my town reads. I wouldn't be doing this if it were tomorrow, due to, well, yanno, the mechanics of the game. Again, I've seen a couple things about you that bug me, and I do have my own gut read. Anyway, I might have been wrong about K4U, but there was a third ~*~good player~*~ I trust voting you, IIRC.
/me looks
OH! Right...uh, actually, LLD, who's opinion I can at least trust as sincere, even if her casemaking was lackluster. Given the backing of...well, my other town reads, and her flip, I'm comfortablish with your wagon. But I don't want to lose a majority lynch to ~*~11th hour wagon changing~*~.
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If I'm being perfectly honest? Everything I know is wrong, every wagon is terrible, but I'm only up for another hour at most so I need to push SOMETHING to an actual lynch, because a majority lynch is going to be valuable information. I can't really unvote and go for an off wagon, because that would be pretty bad. I'll be providing a list of updated reads D3 now that I've removed my own head from my ass, but it would be chaos causing if I did it right now. We do not need chaos, we need organization.
HW is a moderately agreeable wagon, and if it reaches a size where I'd be swing voting away from PX, I'd be willing to join it. That said, if PX is lynched, I'll look back at the PX wagon should he flip town like I'm becoming increasingly afraid of. I'm kind of getting that feeling I got when I was pushing LLD in the last hour of D1.
I disagree. Actually, I find this scummy outright. You're admitting to pushing wagons you don't like to gain information that will lose some of its value with tomorrow's conversion, and you are stalling your reads until a time when you may no longer be town alligned.
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But... if she's stalling her reads until a time where she may no longer be town, wouldn't that mean she's town right now?
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I think I'm too hot right now to be recruited. Further, by putting my new reads off til tomorrow, I'm committing to a course of action that will assist you to discern my possible intent. It's actually a somewhat pro town move, even if it hurts my win chances should I be recruited.
As for PX, I was convinced of PX scum. That's slowly been changing because I keep thinking about it and while there's a lot of derp, I keep missing the scum outside of a possibly counterwagon maneuver. However, I also notice we have about 10 hours left in the day. I know what happened LAST time we had 10 hours left in the day. So, I'm not going to let that be a thing.
HW cuts me with another good point :V.
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But... if she's stalling her reads until a time where she may no longer be town, wouldn't that mean she's town right now?
Depends.
From a town perspective, there should be the assumption that you could die on any given night, especially among the more townie players. In this case, UK should as town work under the assumption that she could be selected by scum. She shouldn't assume there will be a day 3 in which she is working towards the town win condition.
From a scum perspective, there is no threat of no tomorrow, so waiting to give out reads is not an issue or a concern. That's why I consider stalling reads until tomorrow somewhat of a scum tell, at least among players where getting NK'd (or in this case, converted) is an actual threat.
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1. The people that didn't post in the confirmation phase at all.
2&3. Whatever.
4. I just think you are scum.
5. "Bardiche can go die" -> "I never thought Bardiche was scum"
Dunno if backtracking is the right word for it, or whatever, but I still don't think it's good.
7. In the post where you started voting LLD (#252) "you believe scum are more likely to use the "why me" tell. In this process, you have directly used it yourself."
Eh, whatever.
8. I still don't like how you just say something about an "unknown reason" that could link me or huh what to PX.
Okay, I get the thing about #75, I'll drop that. Why did you bring it up when responding to #401 though?
Anyway, tired of arguing about that, let's be friends?
I have a headache.
Opinions about you?
I think that you've been trying too hard to keep people from making cases on you.
Also, in your latest post, if you think that all the current wagons are town, then who do you think is scum?
I'm feeling kind of demotivated.
Bleh.
PESCO. I SANG THIS POST. WHERE IS MY LYNCH IMMUNITY.
http://www.mediafire.com/?p4rk3jbom620nd2 (Attempt to go with the "Still Alive" tune)
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From a town perspective, there should be the assumption that you could die on any given night, especially among the more townie players. In this case, UK should as town work under the assumption that she could be selected by scum. She shouldn't assume there will be a day 3 in which she is working towards the town win condition.
The problem is that you said she was scummy, which means that you think she's scum for her actions. I think the word you're looking for is anti-town.
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Further, by putting my new reads off til tomorrow, I'm committing to a course of action that will assist you to discern my possible intent. It's actually a somewhat pro town move, even if it hurts my win chances should I be recruited.
Actually, I disagree. By posting your reads today, you commit to a course of action where regardless of what happens tomorrow we already have you accountable, making it difficult to backtrack should one of your reads actually be scum.
The problem is that you said she was scummy, which means that you think she's scum for her actions. I think the word you're looking for is anti-town.
I view anti-town behavior as null or mostly null behavior that goes against town's win condition. I view scummy behavior as non-null behavior that scum are more likely to partake in than town. I classify stalling reads until tomorrow as scummy behavior, rather than anti-town, because I think scum are more likely to put off their reads until tomorrow than town, who knows that there may not be a tomorrow.
At the very least it's suspicious behavior.
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That makes a little more sense, at least. The way you worded it made me think you thought she was town, which confused me.
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1. The difference being that they didn't post, meaning they were potentially not around, did not approve of posting in the confirmation phase, or any number of things. I can't accurately say anything about what they were doing during that phase. I can accurately say PX was around, did not disapprove of pre game posting, and chose to coast and not take things seriously, trying to bring things to RVS despite Bard giving us more than that. That said, that's the worst thing I can think of about him, the second worst possibly being his actions in the LLD situation.
4. Yes, and you've finally started providing reasons that, while to some degree wrong/misinformed, make some sort of sense, possibly even from a town perspective.
5. That's fine. I've explained my reasoning, there's not much else I can do.
7. Not sure how this becomes initially accusing her of "avoiding questions"
8. Unknown in that I don't know if it was to protect HW while avoiding a lead mislynch wagon, or to avoid swing voting onto town HW when Dormio scum was likely to be lynched at the time.
I brought it up responding to 401 because you accused me of hypocrisy regarding calling you out on conspiracy theories while having my own. I was both showing what was different, or trying to, as well as trying to get an answer for what I asked.
Anyway, it's not so much I think they are town so much as I'm getting a sinking feeling they are. Now that I'm not ragetunneling I can KIND of see where townies would use the arguments you two have. I'd say PX rates worse than you at this point, Dormio.
As for capt. h, I see no need to scare myself with the recruit/night kill. FURTHER, the fact it's a recruit means no matter WHAT, I will be around tomorrow to post my reads.
@Capt. h. cut: I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see the merit in your way, but I like mine better. Should one of my reads actually be scum, and I choose to shield them, that would be a thing that bites me in the ass fairly hard, ne?
The big problem with "there might not be a tomorrow" is that I'm still not DYING in any situation. It's *possible* I'll be recruited, but I also find that to be an unlikely outcome.
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Thoughts confused again. I think I'll just state that the way the Dormio wagon has dissolved is astounding. Unless we're all just wrong and Dormio is Scum all along, that just means that the real Scum felt they couldn't push that wagon anymore. That should make me more wary of the early Dormio pushers as well as the people who dropped off Dormio the latest.
As I can see it, HW fits that description very well. I do like his recent post as the case on PX is well said. But when most of the late people to drop Dormio moved to PX (HW, Conquerer to some extent, UK: did you vote Dormio at start of Day 2?, Shadoweh to HW, capt.h currently unvoted), that just seems to indicate the same mislynch wagon just under a different name. I do think the early roleclaim is in the end null, but still can't shake a bad feeling about it. If Scum wanted to early roleclaim, they'd claim Vanilla Townie to show earnestness. At deadline, they'd claim a power role to cause last minute chaos. Is that enough for me to consider dropping PX for HW?
Actually, I should consider capt.h more. Spending time responding about small things like whether UK should be putting her Town reads out or not is taking away time from you scumhunting and deciding who to vote today. Especially since you didn't like the Day 2 wagons in general. Who's it gonna be today?
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I voted Dormio at some point early on, IIRC. Mostly as a placeholder for those ISOs I never did since I ended up doing a mostly full reread.
After my reread I ended up voting PX.
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Funny thing Kiro, he did claim Vanilla Townie. Going to post more reads in the near future, definitely before I sleep.
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Alright, stopped being lazy.
To Dormio, #402 basically clears up the issue I had with your previous post (unreadable, unclear, etc.). I'll say right now that I don't think the case holds much water (I believe UK does a good job of responding), but to me, the fact that you were willing and able to write out a case on UK that read in such a way that I could follow your thought process shows your intent pretty clearly. To be clear, I think that Dormio is more than likely town. K4U is still nibbling at my ear about Dormio and such (stop it! :blush:) but I'm the one posting, but she doesn't get to say anything about that. ;)
In response to Kiro, no, that one question did not invalidate my previous read; the question was actually one that I put forth after my discussion with K4U. I'm not going to bother restating what she said (I don't think it's relevant anymore in any case), so I'll just go ahead and say that we have conflicting opinions on Dormio, but since I'm the one in charge of the vote, I'm putting my foot down. As for Shadoweh, I initially voted her because she was my best read and I felt she wasn't receiving enough attention, especially as my predecessor went so far as to call her town (something I felt I should fix). Once she finally made a real post with real opinions (that I agreed with, no less), that basically invalidated my most important concern about her - that she wasn't actually engaging in the game. I actually still have a slight scum read on her, but I don't think it's enough to act on for today, and in any case I have a stronger read on PX.
Speaking of PX. I read PX's vote on capt. h. I'm not seeing it as all. Asking people for updated reads is not a scumtell, and I'm not seeing where these "waffly reads" or "generic reasons" are coming from. If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. So yeah, PX looks to me like scum trying to BS a case and failing pretty badly. This, combined with the way he really liked the huh what case, only to completely drop it by his next post, makes me very comfortable with my vote. I'm also not seeing the town intent in his interactions with the LLD wagon, considering he's guilty of the very case borrowing he accuses capt. h of. Why are people clearing him again? Gut? Really guys?
...Which made me read capt. h again. Although I don't like the way he unvotes, makes a decent case on Shadoweh, and then DOESN'T VOTE ANYONE ARGH, it's not scummy so much as bad. Considering I agree with a lot of what capt. h says, I think he looks townish. The jump on LLD yesterday is strange but understandable if I actually read his post closely.
I don't like the huh what wagon. huh what's posts do give off a sort of very defensive feel, but other than that I can see almost nothing wrong with his posts. He lays out his cases clearly, he votes for the cases he likes, and his posts have generally given off pro-town intent. I don't see any reason why anyone should be voting huh what over someone like PX.
More to come, but I keep getting cut, so I'll Get This Post Out There.
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As for capt. h, I see no need to scare myself with the recruit/night kill. FURTHER, the fact it's a recruit means no matter WHAT, I will be around tomorrow to post my reads.
@Capt. h. cut: I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree. I can see the merit in your way, but I like mine better. Should one of my reads actually be scum, and I choose to shield them, that would be a thing that bites me in the ass fairly hard, ne?
The big problem with "there might not be a tomorrow" is that I'm still not DYING in any situation. It's *possible* I'll be recruited, but I also find that to be an unlikely outcome.
Yeah, I noticed that too.
By that I mean, I noticed that any player that actually gets selected wouldn't want to make good cases today because it would come back and bite them. I consider it extremely anti-town behavior, since the thing that benefits town is to make good cases now so that town has them, but as an individual player that may not be in your best interest. Thus, for each individual, the best thing to do is arguably put off your reads until day 3, when you know your alliance.
I don't agree with doing that and think it kind of goes against the spirit of the game, but that doesn't mean I haven't considered the possibility.
@Kiro - I don't know. I really don't know.
The fact that I don't have any stroing scum reads at this point tells me that I should probably either go after the most competent players when scum alligned like Shadoweh, Bardiche, and UK, or the lurkers like Schezo, Chaore, and Hourai. The only one of those 6 that I haven't already read in full and then mostly dismissed is Bardiche, so I'll read him before bed and see if anything sticks out.
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Kiro, that's a pretty waffly post. Are you really pushing huh what on a conspiracy theory, or is there a case I should be looking at?
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I've actually provided pretty solid reads even now. I just haven't given you a full list and have been avoiding revising my center/mostly town reads until later. The only things I'm having obvious trouble with is my prior assessments of PX and Dormio. They just are the two wagons today. I don't see an 11th hour wagon switch working, honestly.
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WHAT IS THAT SOUND?! IS THAT ANOTHER VOTE ON ME?! >:(
I'm re-reading thread to go see if there's scum slipping through the seams by just being generally glib. Lurkers everywhere, everyone's scum. PX saw what happened to Lambda and spends a lot of time answering questions it's like we need to do that song and dance all over again but let's not words are hard Haha save me :(
Uhm Bard could you maybe tell us why you unvoted PX in english maybe?
Shadoweh what absolved Dormio of your attention for the day since you were tooting for his lynch PRETTY DURN HARD the other Day and then you suddenly went after me because RAEG and all these wrong things about it and then you hang around with no vote until page 13 where you bandwagon hop teh PX GUT VOTE TIME because wth.
I think I mentioned this before, but for SOME REASON I wasn't able to get into the game yesterday. I think it involved SOME JERKFACE pretending to shoot me. After actually rereading Dormio and comparing his play to what I was used to I came up with what I mentioned in post above. I wanted to see his next post to confirm it before going on way or the other. By the way, for having forced that whole death scare on me it's kind of awkward that you never mentioned a read on me either way until now. Did you not care how I reacted at all?
Uh, the gut thing was about UK, not PX. I said why I voted PX, he didn't have a case or a reasonable suspect. He immediately fixed that.
So you just didn't like my vote on you? Fair enough, it wasn't very well thought out. I always spend my time reactionary and prodding people with questions until the scum come out. And I'll vote whoever I think looks like scum regardless of how strong their wagon is. I'm still getting the same sense I was yesterday. The scum aren't where we're looking. I'm going to keep flailing in the dark until I find them.
Capt.h: I don't think it's false. I think the bad feelings I've been getting about UK are because of the hostility which throws off my radar for killer intent. I don't think Dormio is capable of ignoring when his teammates do scummy things, therefore this seems more like tunnelo who better not have a vig this game because I would seriously [redacted] him if he shot UK. You're watching my mind change, it's an amazing thing, and it's the same reason as you. PX is actually scumhunting. I see no reason to lynch him for putting effort into the game. For example here's something weird you just did:
And Schezo is still suspicious with the way he says in his last post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662440.html#msg662440) that Huh What needs a lynch, but he hesitates to call Huh What scummy - I don't think he has a strong read on Huh What. Most the post was about how players made him uneasy/read town, and there wasn't much of a push behind it.
Oh, so you think Schezo is scum and want him lynched right?
Sorry, I'm having an off night. My current reads are that I'm somewhat opposed to a PX, Dormio, or a Huh What lynch after a great deal of thought. I'll make sure to pick a better scum pick before bed.
##Unvote
I'm not sure how these two points comply. You have a scum suspicion right there but you unvote and you'll be back at the lynch? Furthermore with your unvote there really is only one lynch target possible right now. I'd really like to see you come back and vote someone, like, now.
Kiro: oh god i can't reread everyone in one day there are too many. Okay, so just so I understand this, if I vote PX I'm scummy, and if I unvote PX I'm scummy? :/ He's still clearly in the lead. If we were scum together I would have had no reason to vote for huh what instead of Dormio, who's wagon has literally disappeared. Especially if it would make -me- an option. On Conqueror his last post seemed like a reasonable explanation of why he thought I was suspicious since conclusions are hard to make. Oh look at all those cuts. Gonna post now and address in the next one.
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Also, UK, RE: Voting PX. Not going to happen from me. I understand why you want a solid wagon but I want a solid SCUM wagon.
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As I said, I'm willing to switch to an HW wagon if it becomes viable. I don't want to risk oversleeping tomorrow and missing deadline, and having my vote NOT pushing a viable lynch.
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Shadoweh, why do you feel that PX's recent posts give off the impression that he's earnestly scumhunting? I'm not seeing it.
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EBWOP: The above question also applies to the other people to which it applies. Yeah, I'm lazy, sue me.
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It's less his recent posts are good, so much that when I keep rethinking his posting that I thought was bad, I find myself realizing I just found them BAD, not necessarily scummy. My two genuine points against PX would be his confirmation phase behavior and the weird thing about the LLD wagon. Granted, I didn't read his capt. h. case closely.
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Well, I finished my Bard reread. I've determined that he's probably the towniest player alive all things considered (unless my radar is really off). I understand his LLD case and agreed with it, he's extremely focused on scum hunting, he's been consistently bringing up good content. This is probably the best game I've ever seen him in.
I didn't say I'll be back at the lynch, I said I'll be back before bed Shadoweh. Frankly, I didn't think my Schezo case was strong enough at the time. The fact that the biggest two wagons started reading town to me forced me to reassess my reads. Regardless of what I think of it's strength, I'm not seeing th scum intent I'm looking for elsewhere. Schezo is the player I think is most likely to be scum at this time.
##Vote: Schezo
I've already stated that Schezo just isn't all that interested in seeing his lynches go through, and how I don't think he's particular confident about his current vote judging by his 418 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662440.html#msg662440). He's also been very lurk heavy, sticking mostly to town reads, and hasn't done much scum hunting. Frankly, he's the player I think is most likely to be scum, and he really has to start pushing his cases if he's town. Furthermore, I don't like it when a player says another player needs to die, or in Schezo's case "Needs a lynch". When that happens, it starts loking like the player is attacking over play style rather than alliance.
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Conquerer: Yes, I'm waffling a bit. I kinda wanted to see where capt.h would go,
but he isn't going to deliver quite yet, but I take too long to post and he has decided on Schezo. So I'll get my updated vote in.
Being wary of the whole PX wagon being pushed by Conquerer, temporarily pushed by Shadoweh, pushed by HW, all after Dormio has dropped, I just see this as another standard mislynch wagon. I'm back to really wanting Conquerer dead for pushing only Dormio and PX as well as the Shadoweh thing early. HW is similar without the Shadoweh aspect. This is pretty much an abandoning the slam dunk easy to understand logic of how PX is scummy and going for the gut read that he's an easy mislynch for bad play rather than Scum play. I should have been more alarmed that after HW dropped his case on Dormio (took some time to actually do even if he was leaning towards it through the Day), how confidently he puts forth the PX case with all the good points. It just felt like something you could have done earlier so I'm getting on you primarily for how late the timing is on this. And the early roleclaim is another warning bell. I really don't know what your morning schedule is, but if you could spare 3 minutes when you woke up and you were in the vote lead, you could have done the roleclaim then. I'm not sure how fair that is to say, but you seem to be looking too far ahead into thinking you're going to be lynched as if we're just gonna get you anyways despite your best efforts. If I were Town in your shoes, I would have snuck a quick peek at the game before deadline and say your business then.
Shadoweh: It really doesn't have to do with your stance on PX, but more of your interactions with Conquerer. I think Conquerer is worse than HW, but I don't see his wagon getting any support today. Where you would fit into this is that my suspicion of you stems from possibly being a buddy of Conquerer. Individually, the case on you is harder to pin down and I'd hold your pushing Dormio for so long before dropping him as a point against you more than the PX thing. And Conquerer's thing with you is still weird since he acknowledged why you were suspicious, unvoted, and still has a slight Scum read on you. I'm holding that more against him than you though.
The fact that you and Conquerer have opposite opinions on HW is also something I'm struggling with. I do think Conquerer as Scum so I'm going to see his PX vote and not seeing the HW case as legit as trying to protect an HW Scumbuddy. To me, that is a more likely scenario than PX being Scum.
##Unvote PX
##Vote Huh What
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It is now Day Two. Deadline is on 22nd June, 1400 hrs +0 GMT.
According to time conversion, that's 7 AM my time. Whee. I'll be around at 6:45 AM.
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VNJKESTJ COUNT
PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (3) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro
CaptH (1) - PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in just over 7 hours.
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I'm awake! :D Let me get fewd and everything and then read through everything!
Capt H, short comment from skimming, are those the only three lurkers? I seem to recall one that lurked through all of D1.
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So much for posting before midnight. :\
Huh What read:
Starts off voting Dormio for a QUALITY ED1 post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659018.html#msg659018)
Then more QUALITY ED1 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659042.html#msg659042)
Then this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659077.html#msg659077) is where it gets odd. You're asking people to post opinions on things not involving Bard's vig. However, you yourself have only posted an opinion on Dormio, not even talking about anyone or anything else. In fact, other than you commenting on how bad my post was, you only gave opinions on Dormio throughout the entire pre-game phase. Perhaps YOU were the one coasting? I mean, if "There was already a fair amount of content to analyze outside of the vig shot", then why tunnel on an easy target?
Then your "obviously" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659608.html#msg659608) post
so the accusations that I attacked people for coasting on the Bardiche case when "literally nothing else had happened yet" are incorrect.
Yet in the same post where you talk about people coasting,
Dormio seems to be the scummiest example so far, to the point where he's even keeping his vote down on Bard while attacking UK with a more valid case. I'm slowly finding myself more and more satisfied with my vote on him.
I also think people have already said how saying something was obvious AFTER it happened is utter bullcrap. Also, you never accepted the notion that Bard wasn't lying and actually shot Shadoweh? Because if it were "obvious he was gambitting", then why did people suddenly start talking about it?
Next Post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660344.html#msg660344)
You never specified WHY UK looked the best, you just specified why the others look bad.
since I should not have needed to react to Bard myself to pass judgment on those who did.
Ugh, reading through is killing my brain, and Dormio on TS is not helping.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661953.html#msg661953)
I am stating that, Scum would have absolutely NO REASON AT ALL TO BE ON THE LLD WAGON, UNLESS ONE OF THE COUNTER WAGONS WAS A SCUM BUDDY., SINCE THERE WOULD BE A LYNCH NO MATTER WHAT. They do not need to push a townie wagon for a hard lynch, so they have little motivation to actively push a wagon they know for certain will flip town.
Addition, his defense doesn't really show how people are wrong, he just says it and never explains it. Also, your change to vote for me is very opportunistic, pushing me to the definite wagon while giving up on the Dormio wagon when it's dying down.
##Unvote
##Vote: Huh What
WRYYYYYYYY - while you were typing 5 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Also, this time I will try to wake up before the deadline. Waking up at 0700 is just ugh in the morning.
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Conqueror: I'm not sure how to explain that to be honest. I haven't seen anything wrong with his posts in general, posts like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660652.html#msg660652) make me feel like he's actually looking at the game and at people to see what his opinion of them is. I do want to hear what he thinks of huh what now and my view on him since he insisted on it.
Looking at the votecount I'm not the only one having doubts as everyone is everywhere. I can already hear the sound of UK raging when she wakes up to this. Bard just cut me with something I was going to mention about capt.h and I hate him, but yes capt.h has neglected to reread Zakeri. Again, Zak, Dormio, we are not lynching UK today, pick someone else. Hourai, although I'd support one (and Chaore has vanished and never answered my point about the misrep on Dormio) I don't think Chaore is getting lynched, pick someone else. I would -like- to think Bard should change his vote too since I know he's on a bad wagon. :p I don't think there's support for Schezo unless I missed something..
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Capt. H: *facepalm* That vote. Orz
WRYYYYYYYYYY Shadoweh cut!
I don't really like how spread out the votes are either.....
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Again, Zak, Dormio, we are not lynching UK today, pick someone else.
Firstly, I should be around until the deadline or an hour before it and am willing to switch to PX at that time.
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I WANNA BE THE VERY BEST VOTE COUNT
PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (4) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro, PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in just over 6 hours.
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The above is the most brilliant post I've ever read from PX. It's frightful, is scum writing your posts for you? :toot:
Jokes aside, I don't support a PX lynch and I'd appreciate UK put in ALL effort to abandon a wagon she doesn't support because townie power etc. PX finally moving to a Not-Me-Over-Me wagon is like, ABOUT TIME LOL.
THAT SAID, GODDAMNIT HAHA STOP DISTRACTING ME ON TS.
Shadoweh are you honestly saying that you spent all of D1 doing little because of a FAKE VIG SHOT THAT DIDN'T EVEN KILL YOU WHAT. And then you spent the early part of D2 STILL DOING NOTHING because I SO RAEG OVER COP DEATH even though you YOURSELF were pressing Lambda to answer what.
No I didn't care about your reactions AT ALL because I didn't expect there to be anything ~useful~ in that, but if your reaction now is CANNOT POST, MUST LOSE MOTIVATION BECAUSE FAKE VIG SHOT then I am confus given it didn't even last that long for the game proper.
So you just didn't like my vote on you? Fair enough, it wasn't very well thought out. I always spend my time reactionary and prodding people with questions until the scum come out. And I'll vote whoever I think looks like scum regardless of how strong their wagon is. I'm still getting the same sense I was yesterday. The scum aren't where we're looking. I'm going to keep flailing in the dark until I find them.
I dislike more than the vote on me because you're just bandwagon hoopppppiiiiiiiiiiiiiingggggg~ magical stars sugoi ^_^~♥ I thought sleeping would make me feel better but I still feel silly as all get-out.
Doesn't invalidate my own case.
Still re-reading thread but godwhat.
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Kiro: Your cases have alot to do with interactions, it's confusing. What would it mean to you if huh what flips town, out of curiousity? How many scum do you even think there are right now? Who do you want lynched more, huh what or Conqueror4u? You keep saying you would push for a takeover kitten lynch if you could, but you never tried to get it going in the first place. Who do you -individually- think is scum right now?
Dormio: Okay, is there anyone besides PX you'd be willing to vote for?
Schezo.. oh wait who is this guy again?PX: Oh God, fuck it. I'll reread him and the cases on him in a minute, I'll just post this first.
THIS IS NOT A THING THAT HAPPENED. GET ON THIS.
Chaore: >8( CLICK HERE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662272.html#msg662272) FOR MY QUESTION FOR YOU.
PX: If you have a claim I actually suggest you give it now instead of waiting for the morning.. well I would have if the wagon hadn't swung like this.. hmm. No, I still think you should if there's a chance you might sleep through the deadline.
Cut by Bard: Yes, I know it sounds bad and makes me sound useless but it's true. I seriously felt severed from the game and I know I'm not the only one that hasn't felt 'into this'. I still feel pretty lost. I'm not getting a very good sense of if we're going in the right directions or not.
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I unfortunately must claim the standard boring Vanilla Townie.
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Dormio: Okay, is there anyone besides PX you'd be willing to vote for?
Also, I think my current lynch priority goes something like:
UncertainKitten > PX > Kitten4u/Conqueror = Capt. h
Stuff on capt. h and PX. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662007.html#msg662007)
More stuff on those two. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662442.html#msg662442)
I'm getting a sense of deja vu here.
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Ugh, reading through is killing my brain, and Dormio on TS is not helping.
THAT SAID, GODDAMNIT HAHA STOP DISTRACTING ME ON TS.
It's not my fault that I'm so fantastic.
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PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
huh what (4) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro, PX
You guys suck. <_<
I'd personally be a little wary of Kiro if PX flips town, because he basically just made an action that at the time looked like it could potentially cause UK to swing the wagons towards the one who would presumably have an easier time squeezing out of a lynch if they survive the day. It's something I thought might be worth pointing out. Though obviously, he's scummy for other reasons if PX is scum. I don't really like Kiro's wagon switch in general (possibly because it means I'm getting lynched :V), it seems too much like he's utilizing a case on somebody other than me to get a lynch that favors scum more. Would probably consider wanting him dead tomorrow for this, actually.
Just gonna get that post out there
since I feel I'm probably dead barring dumb luck. Mafia pessimism, hooray.
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EBWOP: magical stars sugoi☆☆☆☆☆☆ ^_^~♥☆☆☆
OK, trying to write the case on Shadoweh more coherently this time and HAHA SHUT UP ON TS GOD.
Let's do a post-by-post, ignoring all posts that don't add or even detract from my case because HAHA NO SHUT UP. Let's start here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659956.html#msg659956), where I first highlight the sentence about Shadoweh self-declaring herself obvtown which I hate because NEVER OBVTOWN and Shadoweh wasn't obvtown at all during the entire game (don't correct me if I'm wrong, I'm right).
The entire line to HW seems loaded with BARD IS SCUM because of how she undermines his arguments without actually ATTACKING HIM OHGOD HAHA SHUT UP. Also has the line about agreeing with Kiro about voting actives and proposing we wait for lurkers. THIS IS NOT LAL TIME! Also not wanting to look townie what Shadoweh.
Asking for opinions on Chaore for example while giving none herself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660204.html#msg660204) which is SHUT UP HAHA which is scummy to me because Shadoweh doesn't alight on opinions much. Previous post linked has her doing... something, but opinion giving is not one of them. Acknowledges LLD has terrible reasoning for her votes there, important to note because she pretends LLD was OBVTOWN at the start of D2.
I actually think being logical is a town trait (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660379.html#msg660379) he's complimenting someone on. Making sense has been a good, established method to Not Get Lynched. Also what about Dormio's defence was scummy?
Last line is obvious cheerleading the wagon amiright (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660438.html#msg660438). AMIRIGHT. Day2openingpost etc.
Then her Dormio case MAGICALLY DISAPPEARS come Day2 for derpvote without much thought (self-admitted), and further opinion time not followed by leading by example (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661527.html#msg661527) and then going all IGNORE ^_^ (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661568.html#msg661568) unless I vote her, which is all kinds of silly considering she attacked Lambda over not responding to questions. Need I vote to ask questions? I'll leave the questions aside and just vote liberally from now.
Still no opinions much in the next post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661881.html#msg661881), and still no vote! Obvious what's bad, right? It should be obvious. She isn't doing anything.
NOT HAVING SCUM READS DOESN'T ABSOLVE YOU FROM VOTING LIKE A GOOD TOWNIE (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661961.html#msg661961) and blatantly admitting to coasting is bad. Admitting she considered LLD is also bad because REMEMBER THAT DAY2 OPENING POST? Yeah. AY AY EE AY YOU'RE MY LITTLE BUTTERFLY
Wasn't bandwagon hopping as much as I initially thought on virtue of being SECOND ON WAGON but I still maintain it took way too goddamn long to get that out.
Then the anger later over the sound of a vote on her is silly given she told me she'd ignore me unless I voted her.
:toot: And that's why I
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AY AY EE AY VOTE COUNT
PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, huh what
UncertainKitten (2) - Zakeri, Dormio
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (4) - Schezo, Shadoweh, Kiro, PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 5 hours.
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Hmm, actually, the more I think about it, the less I like Kiro's wagon hop. It just looks incredibly wrong to me that he'd jump on the lynch that arguably benifits scum more from my PoV (and hopefully everybody's else's once I flip town) because somebody other than me looks like scum to him. It's like he's using scumpairs as a tool to get the lynch scum would prefer, on D2 of all things. Even if you disagree I would have an easier time squeezing out of a mislynch tomorrow than PX would, I think it's pretty obvious scum would benifit more from having me as a player than they would from removing PX (that's not bragging in my book because, really, this is PX we're talking about here).
In fact, I could possibly even see Kiro as PX's buddy. Evening the wagons wouldn't be as reckless of a move as it would sound for scum!Kiro on paper because UK's earlier statements pretty much guaranteed she'd be likely to switch to me to get a majority, and of course PX could easily switch to my wagon on Not Me Over Me. While it would seem to be tremendously damning for Kiro if PX ever flipped scum in the future, it is evident that the concept of PX being more derp than scum was slowly becoming a meme among townies around the time of Kiro's wagon switch, which could have easily been pressed on to keep PX alive after today. It depends on how many risks the theoretical scum!Kiro is willing to take, honestly. Plus, it's possible that PX's flip could have been passed off as him having been targeted by the scum recruiter, depending on how the recruiter mechanics work. Not entirely sure about that.
(Note that I'm not trying to say that Kiro is only worth considering for scum if PX is scum, because I don't think that. I think both of them are worth considering individually too.)
It's 2 AM and I'm pretty tired but I think I'll try to look into Kiro some more while I'm awake. Writing analysis to be considered after my inevitable flip because fuck all you haters I'm not giving up. 8)
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*having me as a player lynched
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Also, Bard, it's pretty obvious you're not getting your Shadoweh lynch today. <_< What's your wagon preference?
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Hi.
Nothing to change my mind about a PX lynch right now. Most recent vote is fairly unimpressive. The switch away from capt. h is jarring, but I could understand it given his position. Don't feel like dissecting PX point by point, but this line really rang alarm bells.
I am stating that, Scum would have absolutely NO REASON AT ALL TO BE ON THE LLD WAGON, UNLESS ONE OF THE COUNTER WAGONS WAS A SCUM BUDDY., SINCE THERE WOULD BE A LYNCH NO MATTER WHAT. They do not need to push a townie wagon for a hard lynch, so they have little motivation to actively push a wagon they know for certain will flip town.
Are you kidding me. Scum have plenty of reasons to be on a town wagon. Maybe they wouldn't need to jump on the wagon after it became the leading wagon, but that logic hardly applies to you, since you were an early voter, does it?
Cut by Bard saying PX's recent post is the most brilliant thing he's ever seen what.
I want to :words: about Kiro but my mind exploded when I read his post.
And this:
And Conquerer's thing with you is still weird since he acknowledged why you were suspicious, unvoted, and still has a slight Scum read on you.
If I decided to vote for my weak scum reads over my stronger scum reads I don't think I'd get very far in this game.
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But Bard, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660496.html#msg660496) is so much better for my bandwagoning! Yes I thought she could be clearer. I believe I even said she just does that as either alignment. No I wasn't sure which one she was.
Hey it's not my fault when people start treating me all obvtowny, it's just a thing that happens. I'm alarmed by how much fire I'm coming under today actually and trying to flail scumhunt more effectively. Yes, I didn't want to look townie and get recruited, mission successful I guess! I don't much care for votes and I don't give out my own opinions before asking people for them, in other news my name is Shadoweh and this is how I roll. I stopped ignoring you before this and apologized, don't be mean Bard. :<
This is all interesting but I'm suddenly alarmed because A) Having read huh what's novel I agree with his feelings about Chaore, it is outright riddled with ~*opinions*~, and Kiro's vote gave me the same kind of alarm bells huh what is talking about. See those questions earlier? I feel like I'm being set up actually and I don't like it.
So instead of consolidating on huh what HEY GUYS WHO WANTS TO LYNCH ~*KIRO*~ :toot:
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So instead of consolidating on huh what HEY GUYS WHO WANTS TO LYNCH ~*KIRO*~ :toot:
I'm working on a post about him right now, and the more I write the more I feel like I want him dead. I still want PX gone too, though, so either not me option would be great at this point~
I'm just worried that we wouldn't be able to actually swing the wagons in time. @_@ I don't think a Kiro wagon is likely to gain much support at this point, and honestly most of my case on him needs my town flip to fully be believed, because I've been writing it from the impression that I'm going to die today and the least I can do is to give town something to look back on after I flip. Which means it's not very convincing. Hmmm.
Oh well. Gonna keep on writan.
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According to Kiro I am scumbuddies with everyone. Whoop de doo. Posting the :words: about Kiro that got cut out of the last post.
Being wary of the whole PX wagon being pushed by Conquerer, temporarily pushed by Shadoweh, pushed by HW, all after Dormio has dropped, I just see this as another standard mislynch wagon.
Right just a "standard mislynch" wagon, right? Because obviously PX is town. But oh wait, you think the case for PX-scum is pretty "slam dunk," but instead you're going for the other wagon because huh what could have should have done this or that as town what.
I should have been more alarmed that after HW dropped his case on Dormio (took some time to actually do even if he was leaning towards it through the Day), how confidently he puts forth the PX case with all the good points.
I don't get this at all. Are you saying he should have dropped his case on Dormio for a case he wasn't confident in? Really, I have no idea what this is.
The fact that you and Conquerer have opposite opinions on HW is also something I'm struggling with. I do think Conquerer as Scum so I'm going to see his PX vote and not seeing the HW case as legit as trying to protect an HW Scumbuddy. To me, that is a more likely scenario than PX being Scum.
Okay, rather than rage at this, I'm going to ask for you to present your case on me. Because I honestly don't see it.
In before Kiro tells me I'm defending huh what. No, I'm telling you why I think your vote switch is bad. If you think I am scum why aren't you voting me. Why the hell do you think I'm scum anyway?
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Oh, and clarifying that I don't think I'd support a Kiro lynch for today because making a last minute wagon is silly IMO when most of the players aren't going to be here between now and deadline. I know I probably won't.
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If you think I am scum why aren't you voting me.
Never mind, I think I know the answer to this. Rest of the post still holds though.
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##Unvote
##Vote PX
The votes are now tied.
Hopefully this won't be like Day One where people didn't exist at the deadline. :/
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AY AY EE AY I'M A LITTLE BUTTERFLY
WANT TO FIND A HANDSOME SAMURAI
But Shadoweh, that defense doesn't work at all! It doesn't answer any of the stuff about BEING LATE TO PRODUCE CONTENT and being riddled with ~*nothing at all, nothing at all*~ Pesco woof.
Honestly huh what I think my Shadoweh case is FANTASTIC and people should swap to it. I'm still re-reading but I get distracted a lot. I don't support a PX lynch right now anymore and am reading the cases on you, presently an amalgamation of "Huh?" given I STILL don't find the pre-game stuff that objectionable but opinions might ~change~.
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A) Having read huh what's novel I agree with his feelings about Chaore, it is outright riddled with ~*opinions*~
I should probably explain this better. Huh what's point about PX wanting to ignore the wagon is sound because town should never ignore flips, it's the only way we can prove the cases were in fact wrong. Kiro made a jarring comment to this effect as well here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661366.html#msg661366). It's also a point that PX said he thought huh what looked the better of the two then came up with a huge case on huh what that doesn't acknowledge huh what's large post. PX said "Addition, his defense doesn't really show how people are wrong, he just says it and never explains it." and while this is something I pushed earlier, I don't believe this is at all true for this post. It seems like PX very much made a Not PX vote, but he doesn't mention this possibility. On top of that, I don't like PX's claim. I would like huh what to -try- and paraphrase some of his silly flavor anyways.
The fact that instead of lurking out he came back to attack someone that jumped onto his bandwagon also screams townie trying to get that last opinion out there. Fine, Conqy, take some time to think about Kiro and talk to your cat about it. Right now I'm flip flopping again. Willing to lynch Kiro if people want to switch but GONNA GET THIS VOTE OUT THERE.
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
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Bard that quote is just super! What do you think of Kiro right now?
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On top of that, I don't like PX's claim. I would like huh what to -try- and paraphrase some of his silly flavor anyways.
From memory: I have weird dreams about my other selves and said dreams attempt to impress the ideas of a "grand united theory" upon me. All of this went over my head completely.
I AM CURRENTLY DIGGING UP SO MUCH DIRT ON KIRO YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW. Yes. PX/Kiro scumteam OTP 2011
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All of this went over my head completely.
This means -my- head, not Chiyuri's.
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*grand unified theory
I am a derp.
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##Unvote: Uncertain Kitten
##Vote: Kiro
To add to the fire: in his post 309 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661403.html#msg661403), He makes a case that's 40% "Huh what did something with good intentions, and it turned out badly" and 60% "His voting patterns weird, bad, and not-town"
I discounted the first 40% in my next post response to him, but I attempt to encourage the other part. Later, Huh what makes a huge post where he doesn't like Dormio, and poking the others on the Wagon.
By This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661844.html#msg661844) He defends against my point on the basis that it's a subjective read, and then unvotes saying that Because huh what Reinforced his case on his target that that made him less scummy. In general, his explaining in depth why he's moving his vote off of HW seems like scummy backtracking. I don't really see what Kiro's current case against HW actually is other than because he was going for the easy vote and is the other bandwagon.
Of course, everyone's been going for the Easy vote in PX.
I've been saying this for a long while now.
And Bardiche gets +10 temporary town points for being the first person on the wagon to notice it on his own.
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To Reiterate my feelings on the current wagons
If PX Flips town, I'll get to chew everyone out except for Dormio for being scum forever.
If HW Flips town, I'd likely pursue Kiro as part of his last request, As well as Entertain Bardiche's notion that Shadoweh actually isn't town.
If HW Flips scum, then that's okay, because he was UK's scumbuddy anyway, and the reason I didn't feel like bringing this up before was because that would involve Scumbuddy theories.
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Things I found interesting about Kiro on a re-read:
- His stance on me has been rather inconsistant throughout the game, first of all. The most obvious instance of this is his claim that he would not pursue me if he switched off of UK (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659786.html#msg659786) followed by his vote on me in #219 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660322.html#msg660322). Normally this would only look a little weird, but after considering the circumstances of each post, I would be willing to say it's downright scummy. In between the two posts, the case on me gained a significant amount of support and had now become a viable wagon thanks to Schezo and Lambda, especially considering how the way I was bordering into inactive territory made me significantly easier of a target at this point. On the other hand, the chances of scum obtaining a UK lynch weren't too hot at all - Bard, K4U, and Chaore had all denounced the case on her to some extent, PX had recently hopped off in favor of chasing Lambda, and nobody was actually interested in voting her. Naturally, scum in this position would have a lot more to gain from pushing on my wagon, especially if they could potentially get Shadoweh to jump back on. (BONUS: I find it amusing that PX jumped back on the UK wagon after a while of tunneling her, only to switch over to Lambda very shortly after. Somewhat curious if he realized he may have connected himself to scum!Kiro and made a quick backstep for distance.)
- His D2 stance on me has been slightly inconsistant as well. Actually, his stance on PX between days has been inconsistant as well, I'm noticing. This entire post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661844.html#msg661844) bugs me on a re-read because little of what I posted in my #331 seems like it wouldn't actually satisfy Kiro's actual case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661403.html#msg661403) on me, and the way he votes PX just bugs me a lot - Kiro was claiming PX was town quite a bit on D1, to the point that he even nullified me credit for my PX points because he disagreed. I don't think the way Kiro switched from me to PX was realistic at all because of how inconsistant it was. I'm seeing it as scummy. The way he switched back to me just seems weird in light of all this too. He had a decent enough case on me earlier, why does he suddenly need some crack pairing involving Conqueror just to switch back onto me? Looks too cautious. I don't like it. I think the PX vote was just a votepark on Kiro's part while he decided what else to do, as in a case he had no intention in keeping up with the whole day.
- See #484 and #487 for all the other reasons I dislike Kiro's jump back on to me.
My only real problem is that I can't particularly see what scum!Kiro would have to gain from voting scum!PX in the middle of the day. @_@ Maybe risky distancing? I dunno, it's possible considering that a PX/Kiro scumpair already requires some huge risks on scum!Kiro's part. Regardless, I definitely think at least one of them is scum, if not both.
Some of this is null without my townie flip, sadly, but I'm fine being killed and mangled if it helps to touch town's heart and show it the light. Still, I'd much prefer the death of one of PX and Kiro because, you know, I think both of them are great scum candidates and they fit together as scum quite nicely as well.
... But I doubt the viability of a last minute Kiro wagon, so for now I'm keeping my vote on PX. @_@ Attempting a last minute wagon seems way too easy to fuck up. If I wake up to see that Kiro garnered like 4 votes then I'll definitely switch, but otherwise nooo.
... Though, actually...
@ Bard: What about Kiro? :> If you, me, Shadoweh, Conqueror and Durrrmio all SAW THE LIGHT and switched to Kiro we could possibly actually swing the wagons. I think I might be feeling stronger about my scum read on Kiro than my scum read on PX now, I don't even know. Actually yeah I definitely do. Writing Mafia posts past 2 AM is making me have a partially insane thought process, I think.
Cut by Zak hell yes I love you (not like that). Are Shadoweh and Conqueror still around??
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And when do easy votes become not easy votes?
Cut by huh whall
I don't see a wagon on Kiro forming. I'm probably going to sleep in the next hour because I'm on the verge of collapse here.
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I don't see a wagon on Kiro forming.
BUT
BUT
BUT
zak + me + you + shadoweh
That's four votes! It would have one more than the current HW wagon and possibly more if Bard and Dormio agree!
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And when do easy votes become not easy votes?
Cut by huh whall
I don't see a wagon on Kiro forming. I'm probably going to sleep in the next hour because I'm on the verge of collapse here.
when enough people acknowledge that it's the easy vote, and people then decide to shuffle onto the next easy to make one.
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But Zak I'm not even voting for huh what anymore :< You won't entertain the possibility of PX scum? If Kiro is scum what would that make you think about UncertainKittan?
Anyways good enough for me WHEE BANDWAGONS!
##Unvote
##Vote: Kiro
STOP LOOKING AT ME!
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##Unvote
##Vote Kiro
If Conqueror doesn't come back and I get lynched then I will cry miserably.
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I'M STILL RE-READING LEAVE ME ALOOOOONE ;o;
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Goddammit
But PX is FFFFFF
DAMMIT PX
Let me talk to Kitten.
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I believe Conqueror summed up what I said, only I don't have anyone to talk to.
BRB going crazy whilst thinking.
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Er, am thinking*
My brain is full of "what." right now.
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Conqy: Why not? No, really, considering how close the votes are, if a TOWNIE VOTING BLOCK wanted they could literally lynch anyone right now.. which is what UK was worried about but I like 11th hour superlynches so eh! I'm not opposed to lynching PX at this point if people want to be 'safe' and because yes, I didn't like his blah claim that much. I'd lynch either of them over huh what right now. I have decided we are going to be townie BFF's. I'm pretty sure with my vote moved we have a threesome at this point.
Zak, can you look at PX's case on huh what and claim and tell me if it comes off as townie to you?
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I have decided we are going to be townie BFF's. I'm pretty sure with my vote moved we have a threesome at this point.
Sadly, that's not going to work very well in a game with a scum recruiter...
...unless it fails somehow tonight, in which case fuck yes.
-
But Zak I'm not even voting for huh what anymore :< You won't entertain the possibility of PX scum? If Kiro is scum what would that make you think about UncertainKittan?
The thing about PX is that the case is largely based on him suddenly coming out of no where with a case on LLD, and that he admitted the case was largely a parrot. I facepalmed every time someone said "What changed between your first post and the post you voted for LLD?" when the answer, to anyone who read him could see that "It was because he was focusing on UK, but then his case was invalidated."
As for the second question, I'll probably have to wait until tomorrow to give a full, good answer to it.
Cut: I'll make that another post, getting this out now.
-
VOTE COUNT
PX (3) - Conqueror, UK, Dormio
Kiro (3) - Zakeri, Shadoweh, Huhwhat
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (3) - Schezo, Kiro, PX
Shadoweh (1) - Bardiche
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 3.5 hours.
-
PX's case on HW looks like he's forcing himself to question HW's intentions. This is at a time where it's getting close to deadline, and since PX's vote was the one that pushed HW ahead of himself, I'm willing to forgive the weak casing since "Not me over me" Makes it a null-tell. That said, I'd be very interested to hear his opinions on Kiro now that the wagons are tied again.
-
OK words are hard and this re-readisn't progressing, can someone dumb down why Kiro and HW are scum and then I'll votes after that.
-
By dumb down I mean link to the relevant posts that incite these feelings because there's a lot of junk out here and I'd like to prioritise on the precise posts. From my read so far I like both Huh What and Kiro as candidates for Township, Kiro slightly less due to earlygame shens but that's a personal grudge I shouldn't carry.
-
I'm still here dammit let me think.
I want to sleep. -_-
-
Okay.
Still really dislike the way PX basically told us to disregard the LLD wagon. Still don't like the cases he makes on people.
But HW's case on Kiro is really good and brings up points neither of us had considered. We were somewhat suspicious before then because the hop to HW (who we think is town) is really weird (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662808.html#msg662808), and he's been pushing these scumpairs in a really awkward way.
So fuck it to hell.
##Unvote
##Vote Kiro
Gonna sleep now, don't expect me to be back before deadline. Not doing this again; deadline better change for the next day.
-
By dumb down I mean link to the relevant posts that incite these feelings because there's a lot of junk out here and I'd like to prioritise on the precise posts. From my read so far I like both Huh What and Kiro as candidates for Township, Kiro slightly less due to earlygame shens but that's a personal grudge I shouldn't carry.
Regarding the Kiro case, I'd like to think that my #505 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662832.html#msg662832) covers enough and has enough links to the relevant posts. I dunno. It's not very concise, though.
-
tl;dr Kiro is scum for doing some really scummy shit so let's lynch him.
-
HW's post covers a lot of it, Bardiche, but my post above also notes something that I noticed when I looked at Kiro again.
As for the HW case, I'm a little iffy on it myself, which is partially the reason why I took the third option.
-
Kiro if you're around before deadlynch I have a question for you. It involves this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662710.html#msg662710) - am I parsing it correctly that you're voting HW for having a good case on PX except the timing felt off?
-
It's easier to link why I don't like PX but sure okay
Looking at Kiro's posts are kind of weird actually. It's like watching someome's posting devolve. Comparing his view here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659512.html#msg659512) about how bad scumpairing is, which was a part of his case against huh what here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661403.html#msg661403), compared to here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662710.html#msg662710) where his entire post is about scum pairings and how interactions make huh what scum with K4U is amazing. I don't think -one flip that didn't matter according to Kiro- is enough basis to push on connections. I'm trying to figure out why Kiro dropped his case on UK here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660322.html#msg660322) and I'm not seeing a reason why other then 'i never really thought she was scum'. He rants about being forced to make a case on one of the first seven, then votes for one of the first seven and if anyone sees a post where Kiro so much as prodded the other people.. oh, he did that here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661844.html#msg661844) where he votes for PX. There isn't any follow up in his later posts on these people he seems to feel could be scum and it seriously bothers me. And this, just this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662710.html#msg662710) votehop. Why is he voting for huh what? Because huh what is K4U lite? Because Conqueror and I disagree on something? Vote for your own damn reasons!
-
I know I shouldn't be getting deadline confirmed but after a thorough re-read of Huh What and Kiro, I get two opinions.
HUH WHAT, WHY IS THERE NOTHING YOU DO THAT IS MEMORABLE. Why can I not recall your actions, why are you this low key aside from your essay on PX and now JUMPING OFF OF HIM?!?!?!?
KIRO, why are you waffling between Huh What sooooo much to the point of swapping back to him again except for some of the weakest reasons yet what is going on WHAAAAAAT.
YOU'RE ALL SCUM, ALL OF YOU
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
-
also HW did you seriously just pull a Kiro counter-wagon out of thin air what the BLOODY HELL
-
OK you know what? HW this Kiro case smells like a massive OMGUS in the making but I find myself drawn to your costanders even if SCUM SHADOWEH is among them for OBVIOUS SCUMMY REASONS and she should DIE SO MOTCH OH HOW I MUST LYNCHES HER and you're all bloody scum and I can find myself pushing for a Kiro lynch ahead of PX and yourself.
##Unvote
##Vote: Kiro
But you're still all scum to me. This game confuses me. I think my brain farted. Damnit, K4u, it's contagious.
-
I hate you all and I don't understand anything anymore.
-
Haha sums up my feelings accurately. I'm going out to drink.
-
You totally don't have to go anywhere to drink. I've made myself something ~fortified~ and stop blaming huh what this is totally my idea and just imagine, if Kiro is town you can hang me tomorrow all dressed up and proper!
-
Oh yeah, since the recruiter thing keeps coming up, while I'm green and on town's side, I'm going to give you my opinion of what we should do Day 3 if one of us disappears to the dark side regarding our reads. I don't think we should do anything at all. No, really, I think we should play out Day 3 like nothing happened and keep looking over Days 1 and 2 and the flips for scum intent. There won't be anything to look for right away regarding a traitor among us and the paranoia will end up killing us. The change in reads and intent will become apparent over time.
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VOTE COUNT
PX (2) - UK, Dormio
Kiro (5) - Zakeri, Shadoweh, Huhwhat, Conqueror, Bardiche
Dormio (1) - Chaore
huh what (3) - Schezo, Kiro, PX
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 1 hour 50 minutes
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Kiro, are you around to claim or anything?
I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS GAME.
-
Did you know~
That alcohol~
Makes all the votes go by faster~
This is a post~
Because I love votes the most~
To see the time delayer~
-
Aah jealous, I'm so jealous of everyone sleeping innnnn.. so sleepyyyyyyzzzz
I'll be so mad if Kiro isn't here to react to this.. you're lucky I'm here in casee of mood Kiro!
-
This is nuts. I claim Kaguya, Town Watcher. Loves drinking sake and moon viewing. I watched UK Night 1. Someone actually visited her, but I don't believe that person to be Scum.
-
@shadoweh: I think that's a misunderstanding- I never claimed Dormio knew that LLD would flip town, simply that LLD did flip town and that's what he left us with.
What the fuck is wrong with all of you and why is there a wagon on Kiro.
I...am not sure what to say. This entire thing blows me away and what?
@shadowehcut: kiro is probably still asleep. WHY ARE WE LYNCHING A MAN WHO HAS PROBABLY TURNED IN FOR THE NIGHT AND WHAT THE CHRIST.
I'm still baffled- Especially because a deal of HW's post is devoted to a PX/Kiro scumteam.
@kirocut: oh what the fuck NO WE ARE NOT LYNCHING KIRO RIGHT THIS INSTANT NO NO NO NO NO TURN THIS WAGON AROUND WHAT THE CHRIST
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I woke up and
(http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/Smileys/default/akihateaspit.jpg)
THE CUTS, WHAT IS HAPPENED?! STOP STEALING MY KNIVES!!!
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I don't like your claim for a similar reason to PX, but lucky you I'm here to hate you both. How do you feel about PX over not-you, Kiro? How do the other people YES I KNOW YOU'RE THERE PEOPLE feel about their votes where they are?
-
My brain.
It hurts.
I don't even.
What is.
Oh my.
What.
asfraergaergfaeteawfrqegtfqgdavadsfd
-
##Unvote, ##Vote: PX
I believe Kiro's claim and would like to have this wagon turned the fuck around for PX. This should basically sum up everything I have to say about this.
-
Why would you-
I don't-
Kiro is-
PX should-
My brain-
I DON'T UNDERSTAND A THING THAT'S GOING ON AND GOOD RIDDANCE.
I AM GOING TO SLEEP, SCREW YOU ALL.
-
Well, I can do PX over me. I guess that's the only other option since HW wagon has dissipated. 2 more pages coming in during late night USA, I was floored.
##Unvote Huh What
##Vote PX
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VOTE COUNT
PX (4) - UK, Dormio, Chaore, Kiro
Kiro (5) - Zakeri, Shadoweh, Huhwhat, Conqueror, Bardiche
huh what (2) - Schezo, PX
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
Deadline in 2 minutes
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Wow, this sure is gonna be something. Assuming I'm still alive in Day 3, I will have comments on peoples.
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hat's a shame since I want to lynch Schezo for being here right now and all night and not saying a thing about anything but oh well. Schezo when tomorrow starts you better have a post telling us why the hell you haven't said anything all night because i am so grrface at you
that will probably make less sense in the aferermorning
##Unvote
##Vote: PX
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End of Day 2 VOTE COUNT
PX (5) - UK, Dormio, Chaore, Kiro, Shadoweh
Kiro (4) - Zakeri, Huhwhat, Conqueror, Bardiche
huh what (2) - Schezo, PX
Chaore (1) - Hourai
Schezo (1) - CaptH
Not voting: None
With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.
PX - Sakuya, Town Night Hunter. Attempts of town to ascertain her role after her death have been foiled, but all people know are that she was a vampire who wanted to help the Human Village. It is now Night 2.
Night is 24 hours.
-
The land was basked in red last night, as the full moon held high, casting the shadow of the Scarlet Devil Mansion onto the populace of the Human Village. After such disastrous attempts at trying to lynch scum, town slept miserably and frightfully in great fear of their torturers. A scream was heard, followed by another; but all town could do was to hole themselves up in bed and hope for the best.
After a long, long night of deeds, a cockerel sounded the coming of dawn; the moon still eerily crimson as it faded into the background. The atmosphere was such that the ceremony was successful, and someone was turned into a vanilla vampire goon last night; everyone was experienced enough to know this much.
Amidst all the fog, the body of Kiro, Kaguya Houraisan was found, maimed cruelly beyond all comprehension, such that nothing about her role or alignment could be found.
===
It is now Day 3. You have 72 hours. Voting for no lynch is now permitted. Deadline is on 26 June, 1430 hrs GMT +0. With 11 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Since Dorian is not willing to play the game any further, and capt.h has to go somewhere towards the end of Day 3, he will probably be modkilled very soon (since I do not want more than 3 people playing the same character). If this is so, the day will still continue even after capt.h's flip.
-
EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE.
EVERYTHING.
A LIE.
I AM NOW OF THE OPINION THAT SHADOWEH IS SCUM.
"Also, UK, RE: Voting PX. Not going to happen from me. I understand why you want a solid wagon but I want a solid SCUM wagon." (#463) -> #498 "I don't like PX and Kiro, but let's put a vote on PX."
You basically start sitting on the fence on the two, and this is apparent in your voteswitches from PX to Kiro to PX again.
Also, in the midst of deadline panic, you weren't even really looking at the wagons.
Instead, in #535, you started talking about future days, as if you didn't care at all about who got lynched today.
Not to mention that you're also stating the obvious, there. And that nobody was even talking about it at that time.
Was that an attempt to stop us from thinking about the wagons?
And, to restate, I have no idea what the hell you were thinking during that deadline.
I mean, it's like. #491 "GUYS LET'S LYNCH KIRO" -> #498 "GUYS LET'S LYNCH PX OR KIRO" -> #509 "GUYS LET'S LYNCH KIRO" -> #528 "KIRO IS REALLY SCUMMY GUYS" -> #550 GUYS I'M GOING TO GUARANTEE PX'S LYNCH."
Like, seriously.
The way I see it, throughout the entire deadline rush, you seemed like you were going to go for the Kiro lynch, yet you seal the lynch on PX at the last second.
Let me take a quote from your #311. What the hell were you thinking?!
I'd also like to tack on Bardiche's #485 to my argument.
##Vote Shadoweh
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It's mooooooorning and I've been staring at these posts for over 10 hours wheeee
##VOTE SCHEZO
Boy Schezo sure is easy to read since he only has four posts. post #159 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659861.html#msg659861) Starts off Schezo's thoughts:
- huh what's post 64 is a loaded question
- huh what gave UK a townie read which is plausable and makes Schezo uneasy.
- huh what's post 144 and the obviously trend is backtracking and he waffled hugely on Bard.
- Kiro is right about pages 2-5 being incomplete and his 154 clears up some stuff.
- Will buy Dormio case after huh what
Perhaps I would no have so much of a problem with this if I didn't go to his next post, post #205 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660223.html#msg660223) looking for more opinions and find he's just saying the same thing over. I don't see any new info in this post. UK asked Schezo to
explain why he thought she made logical sense, and his answer is 'every front but Kiro'. He doesn't provide an example of why he thinks UK is logical. It annoys me that this is his last post of the day, considering his wagon fell and it sounds like he would have voted Dormio, except he didn't. He also doesn't comment on Lambda despite addressing something she asked of him.
Here at post #326 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661597.html#msg661597) is his day opener. There is no notice that a lynch went through or that anything weird happened because this post is just a repeat of his earlier posts and their points. Hate the question in #64, wants UK to link hom to Kiro because he doesn't understand the reasoning on it, tunnels on huh what scum now with Dormio as his buddy! He doesn't link to anything new on huh whatty, just says he's not impressed, links old posts and votes. I highly dislike how little your opinion has changed and how little doubt you have.
Finally at post #418 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662440.html#msg662440) he mentioneds the LLD wagon. I'm not sure what this explanation means actually. It made you uneasy but you would vote for her? Your updated huh what case doesn't make sense to me. The point about UK's stange spat with huh what lacks you actually giving an opinion on it. Your clear of Dormio is based on your own meta, which only works for you so yeah. And I've already mentioned what I think about "PX: Oh God, fuck it. I'll reread him and the cases on him in a minute, I'll just post this first." followed by SILENCE. And the silence is extra damning from last night when there were lynches all over the place and you could not bother to show up and push people on/off PX who you might have thought was scum, I don't know though since you didn't say.
Questions:
What about huh what's posts were backtracking on point in post #64?
What was UK saying that made 'logical' sense and why?
Why weren't you voting for Dormio at the end of Day 1?
Why weren't you voting for Lambdadelta?
Do you believe Lambda was a good lynch?
"He then does a strange spat with UK about holding LLD to something over calling Hourai town when UK and LLD were the only ones who had so far and LLD was the only one to get scrutiny." Can you clarify what this means?
What did you think of the PX wagon, and comment on huh what and Kiro's wagons as well please.
Why didn't you post at deadline or close to before deadline, pointing to your case on huh what? Your wagon didn't go through twice. How does this make you feel?
And of course, my favorite?
Who do you think is scum now and why?
I am totally passing out as I write this case up so no I won't be responding anytime soon sorry this is all of your faults for sleeping in at deadline! Though someone was rude and cut me. I'm not even sure what you're accusing me of. You didn't say much about what you thought at the time, Dormio. My statement was an attempt to start some conversation since people were being quiet, as well as get my thoughts out on recruitment before it looked like I was defending my own recruitment today. How was that stating the obvious and why didn't you say as much before someone flipped?
-
I'd vote Kiro now but someone dropped him so instead I'll glare at Chaore and Shadoweh and ask them what for fuck's sake possessed them to think that a second investigative role would be both present and UNDER NO THREAT OF ANYTHING, least of all being transformed into a scum goon by the scums. I am sure that ninja lynching PX without giving him time to even understand that he was going to be lynched and thus NOT A SINGLE CLUE THAT HE SHOULD CLAIM was way better than Kiro's role. In fact, how the hell did Kiro's role imply scum!PX. I don't know what the hell were you two thinking.
Everyone's goddamn scum in this game. For all the same reasons as yesterday and her baffling conduct at lynch crunch: ##Vote: Shadoweh
-
Why?
Why?
Why
do you people
INSIST
on lynching
my strongest town reads?
The worst part is, assuming Kiro isn't a Yakuza, and really was claiming his real role, we have no reason to believe anything he would say today. All we would have on his word was that someone targeted UK night one, and that whoever did was probably town. Anything would have been subject to the possibility that he was now scum and lying about his targets. PX on the other hand, notable for not being a strong scumhunter, and for being the top wagon of the day, would have stayed not-scum because he would have been the last person anyone would have chosen all game.
##Vote: Chaore
You were the one who took the reigns of the bandwagon. Tell me what exactly you thought about Kiro's role that, considering there was going to be an alignment flip last night, made him less worthy of a lynch than PX?
Here's an even better question. Not once in any of your posts all game mention Huhwhat. Your vote could have been used to indict either of them, so please tell me: Why are you not Scum buddies with Huh what?
-
OK. So, those reads. The first thing I did was split everyone into two parts. Those that posted before confirmation and those that didn't. I did not count K4U as posting before confirmation, since all she posted was she was irritated at us doing it.
Secondly, I am convinced that there is one scum in each group. Rather, one original scum. To be honest, I'd need to see the flip of one of the original scum to determine who gets marked.
Thirdly, I got together what I thought of everyone in these groups.
Bardiche: Fairly sure he's town
UncertainKitten: Obv scum, kill it with fire.
Dormio: Leaning tunneled town at this point. (I originally could not read him because I was too livid.)
Shadoweh: Fairly sure she's town.
huhwhat: Kind of bad for the forced reads with only 5 posters, and that one spat of defensiveness. I'd have lynched him over PX.
PX: Flipped town.
Zakeri: Still fairly sure he's town. Will have a question for him later.
Dorian/CaptH: I do not remember a damn thing about this person. He needs to fix that.
---
Schezo: I do not remember a damn thing about this person. He needs to fix that.
Hanged Hourai: I vaguely remember weirdness with HW. Beyond that I don't see many issues.
K4U/Conqueror: Fairly sure he/she's town.
Lady Lamdadelta: Flipped town
Kiro Flipped unknown. About the only issue I could have with him is doing exactly what he said scum would do if run to near lynch. To try to assume he's scum based only on that would be batshit insane.
Chaore: The dramatic reveal. I've had a gut scum read on Chaore after I calmed down from my Dormio spat. And it refuses to go the fuck away.
##Vote Chaore
Given how lovely my ~*~logical~*~ reads have gone, I think I'm going to try this gut thing. (I will try to form a better case on him after I work today, but for now you get GUT =D!)
Going to note all my town reads are "not originally scum" reads at this point.
Reading the clusterfuck of yesterday...I'm not even sure what to think. I think most of the wagon information is shot given the whole ~*~desperation to lynch~*~ stuff.
Zak: Why are you dropping me? What changed between our last spat and now that changes your read of me?
Schezo: Tell me clearly who you think is scum and why!
capt. h.: Tell me clearly who you think is scum and why!
-
I'll get all of my reads out tonight.
Anyone else notice that Kiro's death contradicts what we were told about the rules? That recruitment would take the place of a NK on night 2?
-
@Bard: Oh simple. We just lucked out and turned out to have a second investigative role. Why the fuck DO YOU THINK I WOULD LET YOU IDIOTS LYNCH HIM. I admit I may not have thought this all the way through, and we may have easily lost it to the convert, but it was 9 Am and you people decided to lynch the fucking Watcher. No, No I am not going to just sit by and say 'This is a great idea, All hail Kiro lynch!' I am going to panic and want someone else dead. Shadoweh -literally- said 'PX over Kiro', so I assumed if I had any chance of keeping this from happening, Shadoweh wanted a PX lynch. I didn't particularly consider him townie in the first place, so I honestly had no reservation about throwing his ass out.
Oh. And he did claim. Right here in #481 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662779.html#msg662779). You can take your logic and shove it since you voted for Kiro to die when he wasn't even around and may not have been on in time to claim, and would especially not be on to claim in any large crowd. If I hadn't woken up early his claim would've normally done -dickens- to save him. What the fuck were you all thinking?
@Zakeri: I'm blown away that your post is actually serious.
No, PX was not notable for being a strong scum hunter. If he was a strong scum hunter he would've -never actually been a viable wagon choice-. I think you -drastically- overestimate the amount of people who seriously were about to say 'Well gee, PX has satisfied all my issues with him and I believe he is very strongly townie'. PX would've been a viable mislynch for a good long while, if ever not.
I will admit it probably would've been rather difficult to actually keep you idiots from trying to lynch him again, but he was our -second fucking investigative role- and I don't think we're going to get much luckier with investigative roles than we already have. I think if anything, in hindsight, I would've probably failed and we end up with a lynched watcher, but we would've had time to get his fullclaim and know more, and possibly a second result.
PX on the other hand was claiming vanilla, had not done anything to actually prove himself and was -still a viable wagon for a god damn reason- and I've said I've wanted him dead for a while now. This is the man who outright told us to ignore a wagon that flipped town that he was on. PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY I WAS GOING TO KILL A POWER ROLE I BELIEVED, ON A PLAYER I HAD CONSTANTLY SAID FLIPPED NO FLAGS FOR ME, OVER HIM.
I'll ask a better question, why using your own current logic for indicting Huhwhat as my possible scum buddy, would PX not be a possible scumbuddy if I voted Huhwhat instead? You are literally saying because I chose PX over Huhwhat, Huhwhat clearly must be my scumbuddy. Zakeri this is not explaining why Huhwhat -must- be my scumbuddy to choose PX over Huhwhat. Why would I choose PX over Huhwhat, when I've literally said I wanted PX dead for most of the game so far.
No, you're 'He was a strong scum hunter and clearly town' bit does not count for an answer. I want you to tell me why it makes more sense for me to have chosen Huhwhat instead of PX.
Also, I believe you all want to know -why- I believed Kiro. I targeted UK on Night 1. Therefore I knew Kiro was telling the truth about at least his role. It may have been a bit hasty of me, but I believed that knowing that he wasn't lying and that he was indeed a watcher was enough reason for me to try and save him.
-
@Bard: Oh simple. We just lucked out and turned out to have a second investigative role. Why the fuck DO YOU THINK I WOULD LET YOU IDIOTS LYNCH HIM.
Because scum'd probably do something to him anyway, there was a reason a majority was on him at that time and we already had a confirmed Cop, not to mention none of those who remained on his wagon even knew he had a role to begin with?
I admit I may not have thought this all the way through, and we may have easily lost it to the convert, but it was 9 Am and you people decided to lynch the fucking Watcher.
Yes, this is absolutely right. We all sat together and figured, "Hey Kiro must be a watcher even though he hasn't claimed anything, let's lynch him! :D" We decided to lynch someone scummy, go baww.
Oh. And he did claim. Right here in #481 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662779.html#msg662779). You can take your logic and shove it since you voted for Kiro to die when he wasn't even around and may not have been on in time to claim, and would especially not be on to claim in any large crowd. If I hadn't woken up early his claim would've normally done -dickens- to save him. What the fuck were you all thinking?
Kiro already said he'd be around for deadline, what was to make us think he wouldn't be? Yeah, whooptiedoo, PX claimed vanilla in a malestrom of posts. Doesn't validate that ninjalynches are the townest. Because they're not.
So anyway, Chaore x Shadoweh scum OTP then. I'll lynch either of the two. They're both scum to me for these shenanigans, and Chaore pretending the wagon was made on basis that Kiro was a Watcher ("you all decided to lynch the watcher", really?) is both delusional and derp. I can't even begin to reason why EITHER town or scum would do it but if I had to guess, it's scum trying to throw up clout to cconfuse people.
We have a third scum in our midst anyway.
Capt H, that probably means there's either a scum with a second kill ability, a town vig or an ITP killer. Carry on, don't speculate the roles and get to crunching the scums.
-
Also, you discredit PX's request to stop looking at the Lambda wagon as he reasoned out why he thought scum was not necessarily on it: he stated quite plainly that since there was no need to get a hammer, scum did not need to get on a popular wagon and dirty themselves. They could stay on someone for good reasons, disappear, and look deadline does it all.
As it has done now. We haven't had a real lynch yet because they're all supported by less than half of town rather than half of town. Our position is incredibly fragile, especially due to the alignment swapping roles.
You know what, fuckit. ##Unvote There's something more important to do here than grill Chaore and Shadoweh immediately, because for all that I think their actions were thoughtless they couldn't just lynch PX without some supporters on the PX train, so I'd like those people to restate why they felt their vote was best served on the PX wagon.
And near the end of D3? I want to see. A fucking. Hammer. On scum.
I'd like Chaore to restate his reasons for saving Kiro, and why he felt Kiro was absolutely a Town Watcher, and not a Scum Watcher or anything of the sort. Kiro could have been anything, for his role hasn't flipped, nor his alignment. Let's for ease of argument assume he was indeed a Watcher. Why did you feel Kiro was most likely to be a Town Watcher despite a Cop having been shown to be in the game? A Watcher could undo Scum's game by finding them out, which means we would have had two people capable of catching scum by sole virtue of role in this game.
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Also this has to be the most anti-town flip I've ever seen. No information whatsoever?
Huh What are you responsible for this.
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Ignore the above, ugh, mustn't fish for it. I trust whoever's responsible will let us know later.
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I'm not responsible for it. I was thinking we could have lynched Kiro today, but no, apparently he had to die to the fucking JANITOR VIGILANTE.
I find it to be the most likely that scum did it, regardless of Kiro's alignment, just to leave us puzzled for the rest of the game. @_@
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##Vote: Chaore
Well now I just want to see him hang even more.
But let us go over my case on him once more, hmm?
Opened up D2 without a vote on either of his suspects. This is scummy because he did not put an action to back up his words. When asked about this, he said he wanted to see their responses before voting. I feel this is not townie because he could have easily placed his vote and changed it if his opinion changed. His action is scummy because he took a wait-and-see approach before actually deciding on his pick.
He has not voiced suspicion outside of PX and Dormio. This is scummy because he's leaving himself to pursue anybody without precedent, and we have no idea what he's going to do.
UK, may I get clarification on this? It feels like a little disconnect and an explanation would be nice.
As for PX, I was convinced of PX scum. That's slowly been changing because I keep thinking about it and while there's a lot of derp, I keep missing the scum outside of a possibly counterwagon maneuver. However, I also notice we have about 10 hours left in the day. I know what happened LAST time we had 10 hours left in the day. So, I'm not going to let that be a thing.
At this point, you still have your vote on him, but your attention had mostly been on other people at this point. If you were beginning to think he wasn't scum, why did you keep your vote on him?
Hey Schezo, remember that thing where I said you were passive in your case, we didn't know your priorities, and I wanted another post explaining this? It's still a thing and I still want you to address this. Your vote reeks of just parking it somewhere and coasting by. I am okay with lynching Schezo. You also never got around to that actual opinion of Kiro, and now anything you say would be biased. This makes me sad.
Oh, Chaore reply. Mhmmm. And since you want really badly to not be lynched today, who is the scum and where is the hunting? We still don't know who you think is scum or who you have suspicions of outside of 1 person, and we don't even know if your opinion on him has changed. I would not be surprised if this is a distancing attempt. Hunt. Find scum.
I'm going to get this post out there with my initial opinions. More on others later.
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@UncertainKitten There's a lot that has changed, though I admit, I still don't think highly of you.
Scum do not have a nightkill night 2, this is Mod confirmed. The only reason I could think of for Affinity to go back on this is if we somehow nullified the scum's ability to recruit, which obviously did not happen with town's refusal to lynch scum. So, there are two explanations. The first is that we have a Town Nightvig janitor who somehow thought shooting the Claimed Watcher was a good idea, or Kiro has a role that requires him to sacrifice himself.
So, I hope this helps explain why I'm going to throw everything I can at those who Defended Kiro and continues to claim that those on the Kiro wagon were wrong.
Dropping the HW point, because that point was only born out of frustration.
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@Bard: I wanted a majority lynch, PX seemed most viable. I WAS going to switch to HW if his wagon gained steam, but I overslept so I missed the end of day insanity. I honestly did not think the votes could move around that fast, or I'd probably have proposed my Chaore is scum theory then.
@HW: Why the fuck would you want to lynch Kiro today?
@HH: As I said, I WANTED a full majority lynch. If that required me being on it, so be it. When I went to bed, I thought PX was going to be that full majority lynch. Outside chance of HW. Then...well, you know the rest.
@Zak: Understood, thank you. I find it hard to believe a town vig would do something so incredibly stupid. Is it absolutely confirmed that Affinity can't do something silly like "Oh, a scum vig wouldn't be the an NK :V :V :V"? The other possibility is a limited shot janitor SK, which would be quite intriguing. I'm trying to decide if I want to force a vig claim. The advantage is once we lynch all the scum, if we're still playing, guess who's third party :V. Alternatively, if it's a scum vig and they choose to claim it, they're at least locked to that claim. Disadvantage is, of course, outting potentially town power (though for christ's sake don't use the gun again if you are town. The loss of information from a flip outweighs the hell out of killing someone)
Oh, look at Bard theorizing the exact same things a few posts ago.
Mm...I think there needs to be serious consideration of this. Whether the vig should claim or not.
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I think you've misunderstood Bardiche. I am not saying you all decided to lynch the watcher (Though I am still bewildered and surprised that within 4 hours of deadline or so that you all pulled this wagon together), I am saying you all ended up deciding to lynch the person who was the watcher. As in, I knew you were about to lynch the watcher which is why I reacted as I did. I am not accusing you all of being scum because you were lynching the watcher, I'm saying I reacted as I did because you were lynching the watcher, even if it was because of his claim I was probably the only person who -knew- and had good reason to trust him.
As for why I chose to save him, I'm going to ask you to do something that might be difficult for you. I am going to ask you to think as someone who wasn't dead convinced that Kiro was scum. Now, you know that Kiro is indeed the watcher- What is going to be your first thought of a Watcher? That they're instantly scum, and lynch them, or that they are Town and you should probably hold off on their lynch? I do not believe a Watcher is a role that you really would -find- on a scum team, therefore for the first part, a Watcher looks rather townie. The second part is the existence of a cop already in the setup- While I get two investigative roles are strong, Two investigative roles are never impossible. It is not as if Kiro claimed something absurd to find in a mafia game, and we only knew there was a cop in the game. We know nothing else to suggest that two investigative roles would be too imbalanced, and we should immediately disregard any other investigative roles for being liars. I do not see anything that would make this impossible, Bardiche if you believe this, Why do you believe this?
Kiro's claim from my view did not look farfetched and unbelievable, nor is it honestly a scummy thing to claim. The fact I had bias to confirm he was a watcher like he said and no reason to really seriously doubt he was town, I don't think it was unreasonable to see Kiro as Townie from my point of view.
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Chaore, you are defending yourself. That's ok, town and scum both do that. However, you are not making any cases, not suggesting any alternate lynches, or hunting scum. Who is scum and why? This whole thing reads as a distancing attempt to me until you actually hunt.
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Don't have the time to make a full post with reread right now. I'll be able to say more later today once I actually get some food down.
Alright, first off, I think that Kiro was probably lying about his role. A watcher along with a innocent child cop and a doctor (implied in Aya's role pm) along with whatever PX was (Vanilla Townie my ass) is extremely powerful. What this says about his alignment I'm not sure.
Schezo doesn't exist and needs to either show up or get a vote planted in his face.
I like the way Chaore disappears for half the day only to pop in with an eleventh hour save for Kiro based on a one-line claim. Two big "content" posts day two, and they were waffly as hell. The vote park on Dormio with no attempt to actually push the lynch wagon is also a plus. Recent defensive posts with no attempts to give opinions on the SCUMZ are pretty horrible, and I will probably vote him when I get back.
Or I guess I could just vote him now. rofl.
##Vote Chaore
I think Bard has a question for me and I'll Get To It Later
Cut by Hourai - distancing from who?
Gonna Get This Post Out There. Detailed cases when I get back, so stay tuned.
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Cut by Hourai - distancing from who?
Gonna Get This Post Out There
:colbert: That's my thing.
Distancing from his buddies since all he's done today is defend himself and justify his actions, answer questions, and setup speculation. He hasn't said who's scum.
So yes, Chaore, stop getting hanged up on setup speculation.
Gonna get this totally unique and awesome posting quirk out there.
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I understand if you're angry, Chaore, but you'd have a better time trying to point out who is more scummy than you are than actually trying to convince me that lynching Kiro was a bad idea considering the circumstances behind his flip. It would also have the bonus of making you look like a confused townie, rather than scum trying to mislead town using the non-flip death against us.
Also, No questions asked, if there is such a night vig out there who is responsible for Kiro's death, they need to claim and take responsibility for it. It's would greatly help town to have that sort of information out there.
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Alright, first off, I think that Kiro was probably lying about his role. A watcher along with a innocent child cop and a doctor (implied in Aya's role pm) along with whatever PX was (Vanilla Townie my ass) is extremely powerful.
Going to quickly say that I agree with this. A watcher is an informative role that could potentially clear somebody as not having been scum's recruitment target... and our D1 lynch was an informative role that cleared themself as not having been scum's recruitment target. Hmm.
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HJ YEAH Vote Count
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh
Chaore (4) - Zakeri, UK, Hourai, Conqueror
Not voting: Bardiche, Schezo, CaptH, Chaore, huh what
Chaore is at L-2
13 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
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I am sure that ninja lynching PX without giving him time to even understand that he was going to be lynched and thus NOT A SINGLE CLUE THAT HE SHOULD CLAIM was way better than Kiro's role. In fact, how the hell did Kiro's role imply scum!PX. I don't know what the hell were you two thinking.
PX claimed Vanilla Town. Please don't make it sound like we surprised PX at the last second with a lynch as if he was never a target like we did Kiro. PX had lots of time to understand he had a good chance of being lynched all day. I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I thought PX's claim was a lie. (it was :fail: ) Kiro's claim on the otherhand was provable and I'll explain why I believed him.
Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.
I thought Chaore was the one that targetted UK when he freaked out at the last second about lynching Kiro. Since I'm still assuming the kill came from scum, I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie. Unless someone else wants to claim targetting UK? Kiro sounded like he only saw one person. I don't get this flurry of votes on him. He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.
I think the wagons are much more informational, UK, since from my perspective they were both on town. I'm still slightly certain huh what is town as well. Wagon analysis works for looking at town wagons as well doesn't it?
THERE SURE IS A LACK OF PEOPLE VOTING SCHEZO IN THIS THREAD. THERE IS ALSO A LACK OF SCHEZO. HERE PUPPY PUPPY.
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Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.
It has nothing to do with the janitoring and everything to do with the fact that the possibility of two full town investigative roles along with the other roles town apparently has is very hard to swallow. Kiro may have had other ways of receiving the info that he did, but I don't think he was being completely honest with his claim.
He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.
Simply put, no. I'll explain later.
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Why are people wondering if Kiro was really a watcher? Because he got janitored? Are you serious? Someone died and their role was hidden therefore he must have been lying? He claimed a watcher that had targetted someone and gotten a result. If he'd been under suspicion today we would have forced him to give the name of the targetter. All it would take is a 'No I didn't' and fake!Kiro would have been lynched. I'd say the fact Kiro died on a night where no normal nightkill happened after claiming to have a power that could catch the scum recruiter proves he was telling the truth.
Are you saying you believe the kill was scum sourced when the Mod claimed there would be no scum nightkill? Do you have any hypothetical situation in mind where this could possibly be true?
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If you say so Conqy. Looking over my post there's alot of the word assume in it. In any case since none of the scenarios are provable and I -do- have to give the possibility Kiro got janitored just so Chaore could claim to have targetted UK merit. Looking through Kiro's posts his only mention of Chaore was that his okay read had become 'not so okay'. Not much of an indication he saw him doing something.
Chaore, I'm going to second the request for your scum reads today, multiples of them. Huh what needs to do the same, your PX x Kiro OTP is dead now and at least one half is town.
Zak: If town had two investigative roles on top of whatever PX was, I don't see why a scum hitman is out of the question.
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Well, the rules do say "no normal NK", so the possibility ran through my head that scum had extra kill(s) when I was thinking too.
But that is setup speculation and does not really help in finding the scum.
Speaking of which, I still think that Shadoweh is scum.
To reiterate #553 since apparently Shadoweh finds it annoying to read and pretty much completely ignored it or something.
- What changed your mind from "Voting PX. Not going to happen from me." (#463) to your #468, where you placed your vote on PX. Why did you change your mind so abruptly about PX being not scum?
- All of your activity during #491~#550 seemed to suggest to me that you would have preferred a Kiro lynch over PX. Why did you guarantee PX's lynch at the last second?
- You also seemed to give me the feeling that you didn't even really care about the lynch in #535, where you began discussing the recruit mechanic. What especially sets me off about that post is how you opened it up with "Oh yeah, since the recruiter thing keeps coming up". Who was bringing it up at the time?
- In your follow up post, you ask me how the recruitment thing was stating the obvious, the recruitment destroys townie cred, right? But it only changes one town, existing scum will still be existing scum. I see no reason why you had to state this at that point in time. It seems to me like a confusion effort or something.
- In addition, your response to Bardiche's #485 can be roughly summed up by "Yes, I didn't want to look townie and get recruited, mission successful I guess!" (#491), can it not?
And I'm going to have to reread Chaore when I'm free now.
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The mod only said that scum had no nightkill on N2. This doesn't mean they couldn't have had some sort of nightvig. I personally believe that it is possible Kiro was scum even if scum is the one responsible for his kill - Kiro's claim was never resolved, so it was possible that if he was scum fakeclaiming, he could have not been capable of escaping lynch the following day. This would mean that scum janitorvigging him would actually benifit them, because denying town knowledge of the alignment of a scum player who was going to die anyway would basically be the ultimate pro-scum dick move. I'm not sure I particularly believe this is the case right now, but it seems plausible to me.
Also, PX's flip confuses me. The flavor seems to imply that he is some sort of reverse-traitor, considering that (as far as I'm aware) Sakuya is not a vampire. Considering that PX did not get a full flip and did not claim his role, I don't think that Town was ever meant to know the specifics about his role, and I suspect that PX did not claim his role because he was not allowed to do so. This leads me to think that some gimmicky shit was going on with him.
Unsurprisingly, I think Chaore is the best target for today, but I'll have to actually re-read the thread before I can get a handle on my top suspects, and who knows when that will happen. For now, I'm just gonna get this post out here, since I find the role shenanigans to be confusing as hell.
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Mm...the problem with dick move theories is that it would still be giving town an extra mislynch, if Kiro were scum. I'm not entirely sure that would be worth losing a member of their team. I also don't see how Kiro was "not going to survive".
Anyways, I'm not sure I understand the cases on Shadoweh. Could someone put it concisely bringing forth their strongest points in bullet format, with link citation?
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The mod only said that scum had no nightkill on N2. This doesn't mean they couldn't have had some sort of nightvig. I personally believe that it is possible Kiro was scum even if scum is the one responsible for his kill - Kiro's claim was never resolved, so it was possible that if he was scum fakeclaiming, he could have not been capable of escaping lynch the following day. This would mean that scum janitorvigging him would actually benifit them, because denying town knowledge of the alignment of a scum player who was going to die anyway would basically be the ultimate pro-scum dick move. I'm not sure I particularly believe this is the case right now, but it seems plausible to me.
I disagree. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8gOUX9kKQk&feature=related) I don't think that's even plausible. But it sounds like a great reason to narrow your scum + anti-town picks from 4 to 2. And Kiro's wagon was a last ditch effort by about 5 townies who thought all the other wagons were terrible rather than Kiro's being any good; they thought Kiro was the best option at the time. Furthermore, sacrificing Kiro would only protect one scum at most (since the other scum hadn't been created yet), and would be way too costly. I doubt scum killed scum last night. Heck, I think even suggesting it is suspicious.
Honestly, I can go for a Schezo vote unless he gets in here in the next few hours before my death and explain why he was missing for everything and didn't follow through on his promise to give us a PX read. In fact, I think I like him more than the Chaore lynch at the moment, but I won't be able to update my case on him much unless he decides to actually show up before my death.
##Vote: Schezo
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And Shadoweh, I've had enough of you. Reads. Now. Because your reads are the most flexible things I have ever seen.
I thought Chaore was the one that targetted UK when he freaked out at the last second about lynching Kiro. Since I'm still assuming the kill came from scum, I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie. Unless someone else wants to claim targetting UK? Kiro sounded like he only saw one person. I don't get this flurry of votes on him. He turned the wagon at the last minute off of someone he could verify was telling the truth, therefore he is scum? This doesn't make sense. I dislike Conqueror for even suggesting this makes sense at all.
Congrats! You claimed mind reader! And it only took you the ten minutes before day 2 ended to figure out that Choare was telling the truth, while drunk! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662911.html#msg662911) Not to mention how you defend your play: you claim you were depressed from the vig shot and therefore you were bad, and then you claimed you didn't want to look too town so that scum wouldn't pick you on night 2. Well, you don't look town now, and I'm tired of the excuses. I don't care why you play like scum, I want you to tell me who the other scum are. We have at least two players other than Schezo to figure out, and that's being generous about the vig.
You are scummy. I find Schezo worse at the moment because I judge lurkers by average scumminess per post rather than net quantity of scummy play, and I can't find a single Schezo post that makes me feel good about the guy, but you are scummy.
@Everyone - I won't live through the day. Chaore will likely be placed at L-1 by my death. I highly advise that no one put anyone at L-1 until I die, unless they want the day to end early.
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EBWOP:
*And it only took you the ten minutes before day 2 ended to figure out that Kiro was telling the truth, while drunk!
Frankly, I have a hard time believing anyone is good enough to realize that Chaore's quick switch was caused by him having been the player to target Kiro. And you certainly didn't suggest you knew it at the time; I don't like you claiming you knew Kiro was telling the truth by Chaore's actions only after Chaore revealed that he targetted Kiro.
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Speaking of which, I still think that Shadoweh is scum.
To reiterate #553 since apparently Shadoweh finds it annoying to read and pretty much completely ignored it or something.
You seem to have acknowledged that I looked at it in my following post, why would you say this?
- What changed your mind from "Voting PX. Not going to happen from me." (#463) to your #468, where you placed your vote on PX. Why did you change your mind so abruptly about PX being not scum?
#468 is capt.h voting for Schezo. You should include links to your posts. If you mean #498 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662818.html#msg662818), I said before that in post #491 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662805.html#msg662805) that I was doubting my huh what vote and used 498 to clarify what I was doubting. This entire post HAS my reasoning for why I changed my mind. If there's a specific part of my reasoning you want me to clarify I can, but the answer to your general question is right there.
- All of your activity during #491~#550 seemed to suggest to me that you would have preferred a Kiro lynch over PX. Why did you guarantee PX's lynch at the last second?
I believed Kiro's claim. I believed huh what's claim. I didn't believe PX's claim. Why didn't you say anything at the time besides I AM CONFUSED?!
- You also seemed to give me the feeling that you didn't even really care about the lynch in #535, where you began discussing the recruit mechanic. What especially sets me off about that post is how you opened it up with "Oh yeah, since the recruiter thing keeps coming up". Who was bringing it up at the time?
I don't think anyone brought it up at the time. It was a recurring thing that had come up during the day that I'd been thinking about. I think I was rereading something Bard said.
- In your follow up post, you ask me how the recruitment thing was stating the obvious, the recruitment destroys townie cred, right? But it only changes one town, existing scum will still be existing scum. I see no reason why you had to state this at that point in time. It seems to me like a confusion effort or something.
More like an attempt to say something besides 'I am posting to say I am still here' and get conversation going. Again, this is something you could have brought up at the time instead of leaving me to my lonely talkative self. Considering the way people were talking about trusting no one, no I don't think my view of it is obvious. It's certainly not how people are acting.
- In addition, your response to Bardiche's #485 can be roughly summed up by "Yes, I didn't want to look townie and get recruited, mission successful I guess!" (#491), can it not?
That is one of the things I stated, yes, but it's not a synopsis of my play this game. That was something I wanted to do coming into the game, it's not something I actually did on purpose. How is this point important, Dormio?
Oh hi capt.h. Immediate thoughts are that I think Schezo is scum and I have pretty negative feelings about Conqueror, so possible scum. I'm being reminded looking over my posts that I had possible scum suspicions of Chaore, so I want to see his scum picks for today. Again I wasn't trying to play scummy. I think you guys are reading too much into that. And.. okay? I thought it was highly likely Chaore was the targetter from his reaction to the claim. That isn't why I believed Kiro though. See above explanation why I thought Kiro's claim on its own was good.
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You seem to have acknowledged that I looked at it in my following post, why would you say this?
Because you didn't really say anything about most of it.
#468 is capt.h voting for Schezo. You should include links to your posts. If you mean #498, I said before that in post #491 that I was doubting my huh what vote and used 498 to clarify what I was doubting. This entire post HAS my reasoning for why I changed my mind. If there's a specific part of my reasoning you want me to clarify I can, but the answer to your general question is right there.
Numbers are hard. Almost as much as words.
Do you recall what you didn't like about his claim?
You admit that PX made a "not me" vote, why did you grill PX for this but provide Kiro with the opportunity to get a "not me" lynch later?
Why didn't you say anything at the time besides I AM CONFUSED?!
Because I was freaking confused and was wondering how the Kiro wagon started. I still believed that Kiro was town at that point.
I don't think anyone brought it up at the time. It was a recurring thing that had come up during the day that I'd been thinking about. I think I was rereading something Bard said.
Why bring it up at that time then?
More like an attempt to say something besides 'I am posting to say I am still here' and get conversation going. Again, this is something you could have brought up at the time instead of leaving me to my lonely talkative self. Considering the way people were talking about trusting no one, no I don't think my view of it is obvious. It's certainly not how people are acting.
But doesn't what you said in that post amount to "trust no one?" Just keep on trucking, looking for them scum?
Bleh, whatever.
That is one of the things I stated, yes, but it's not a synopsis of my play this game. That was something I wanted to do coming into the game, it's not something I actually did on purpose. How is this point important, Dormio?
Because it looks to me like you were brushing aside Bardiche's entire argument with "I was planning to look somewhat scummy, but still townie enough."
Oh yeah, that sounds like an SK, too. :V
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Shadoweh, you told us why it's clear that Kiro was telling the truth now, but your reason at the time - that he would have to give us the name of whoever he targetted - isn't so great. He could have picked anybody, and just said that they got visited; we would need the entire game to claim to verify whether he was telling the truth or not.
You had ten minutes to figure out Chaore visited UK, assuming Kiro didn't just get lucky. I believe Kiro's claim now, I just have a hard time believing that you could figure it out so quickly.
Also, Bard, that was a nice bread crumb in your confirm. Very mean to Shadoweh though.
##Morphine: Bardiche
Explain your actions last night.
And Schezo~ I'm waiting for you~
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Wait what breadcrumb? Reading thread but figured I'd respond to that immediately, I have no idea why you'd want to waste morphine on me. If this is another drug junk trip for me until LyLo then I hate you immensely.
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The hardest part about waiting for reactions is having to resist the urge to tell everyone they are stupid.
Who hasn't posted yet? Besides Schezo?
Cut: I had a part in here where I was going to tell Capt H to wait until after everyone posted before stirring up the pot. But I guess I'm too late. Also, Bardiche, you forgot to answer his question.
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I refuse full disclosure if I am not given full disclosure of what it is you want from me, and what nightly actions I am accused of.
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Fair enough.
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@Chaore: The reason I have issue with your immediate throwing off the wagon to lynches the PX was because I thought Kiro was scummy as all hell, and even on the off-chance he was honest, there was still no guarantee that the mod would intentionally give a traditionally town role to scum. Remember that trying to derive alignment from roles is never a swimmingly fantastic idea. As such, a Scum Watcher could have produced the same result. Anyway.
Now, you know that Kiro is indeed the watcher- What is going to be your first thought of a Watcher? That they're instantly scum, and lynch them, or that they are Town and you should probably hold off on their lynch?
If I thought Kiro was town I'd not lynch him, obv. I wouldn't attempt to swing the bandwagon immediately by my own attempts, though, and least of all if you recall that scum can convert people. It means any good role can be rendered null by the recruitment.
Bardiche if you believe this, Why do you believe this?
I believe two investigative roles is crazy because that means on N2, assuming scum hadn't gotten on Kiro's track, then both Kiro AND Lambda would've had a chance to discover scum. Kiro'd require a flip on N2, but if he caught the scum recruiter in action, then either of the two dying would clear up the gig. Somehow I just don't think town'd be so lucky and fortunate to have two strong investigative roles equipped to them. Of course this is all conjecture and but the weakest point raised against you.
Who are scum then? Are there scum among the Kiro-voters?
I'm going to assume Chaore didn't janitor someone that could verify him and make himself look townie.
Shadoweh, how does Chaore acting on UK make him townie?
That finishes my read of the events since I left. I see we're all gaily voting Schezo, I find Chaore's current refusal to voice suspicion a lot more distressing.
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Sorry Zak, I don't have the time to wait for Schezo. I've got about 12 hours or so, and I sleep.
Bardiche - I thought it would be obvious. Why did you kill Kiro?
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You're going to have to cite your sources for believing I killed Kiro.
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Well if the game's already begun.
##Shoot: Shadoweh
##Vote: Dormio
Jokevote phase is now over. Discuss.
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... no, that wasn't at all a breadcrumb as to my role.
Your killer's some other person.
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Cut: I had a part in here where I was going to tell Capt H to wait until after everyone posted before stirring up the pot. But I guess I'm too late. Also, Bardiche, you forgot to answer his question.
I now want to call this to question. I see no allusions from capt h in his posts that he had any idea as to the identity of Kiro's killer. Please elucidate how you knew he was going to "stir the pot".
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Shadoweh, you told us why it's clear that Kiro was telling the truth now, but your reason at the time - that he would have to give us the name of whoever he targetted - isn't so great. He could have picked anybody, and just said that they got visited; we would need the entire game to claim to verify whether he was telling the truth or not.
We wouldn't actually. It's not just that he'd have to say whoever he targetted, it's that he'd have to give us who he saw. He put himself into a very strict claim that he couldn't really weasel out of, that's why I believed it.
Dormio: Go look at huh what's claim, then at PX, and tell me if you can figure out what the difference is. I said that PX was very specifically NOT making a not-me vote, he was making a full scum case on someone. Do you think Kiro is town now? I brought up my thoughts on recruitment because it was about to become relevant and it occured to me it's not something I should say after the flip. Are you calling me an SK now? >.>
Bard: Are you asking me to guess what role Chaore would be? I can think of one. I will concede that it wouldn't prove he used a town action.
Cut by a bunch of things and I have no idea what's going on again.
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Either way, I'm pretty sure the Kiro kill did not come from Chaore.
Kiro claimed UK was visited. Chaore claims to have visited UK. Without a counter claim, it's pretty clear to me that Chaore did not mame UK beyond recognition, otherwise I don't think UK would be here right now. Doesn't clear Chaore at all, just means he isn't likely to be the player that put the Kiro order in.
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If Morphine is really one of your commands to use, I should hope that if you draw a power role in the future, you'll spend more thought about who to action on.
Capt H, roles can have two powers or more. I told you. No role crunch. Go hunt scums. If you have a power that activates with the Morphine command, then you really ought've thought about it better (and why not use it on Shadoweh who you accuse of being scum? (she is scum btw)). If that was a bluff, that's cute.
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No, Shadoweh, I am asking why the act of Chaore visiting UK would imply that Kiro could make Chaore look "townier". You now realise that you were wrong on that account, which is pleasant because I won't have to point it out. :[
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Don't mind Shadoweh, She's just trying to push the lynch onto Schezo to help cover up her new scum buddies. :V
Capt H, please don't tell me you're basing an entire suspicion, complete with role action, on the fact that Bardiche fakeclaimed dayvig. Even without the use of Logic, I can prove to you Bardiche is not the Vig.
Cut: Because Capt H is claiming, or, well to me he looks like he's claiming to be using a role that involve him sacrificing himself. Considering my pet theory behind Kiro's unexplained death, and a few other factors I'm not willing to share, It makes sense to me that Capt H would have such a role. I also want to know what he thinks he's doing with the role.
Cut by Shadoweh: I might as well just throw this out there, since there's no more waiting to be had. I believe Kiro used a role that forced him to kill himself as a result of the action happening. I also think Kiro used this role as scum, and therefore completely lied about the Watcher claim. The claim was nice because 1. It would involve something that he would have to answer to the next day, and 2. Much to the surprise of town, He wouldn't be here the next day anyway. The most likely thing that the role would be would be the alignment change, hence why my very first post of the game had me "Assuming Kiro isn't a Yakuza (role from the Epic Mafia site, where scum kill themselves to transform another townie into scum". The explanation for Kiro's lack of flip is, according to this explanation, the result of Kiro dying as per his role, instead of lynching him like was almost going to happen.
I'm putting this theory forward as the only theory that makes any sort of logical sense. If you want to continue to push "Lol, Affinity lied" forward, and that Kiro is town, then go right ahead, but I'm tired of hearing it now.
Cut by Capt H: Fuck. If you really had something, that would have been nice, but just ... no. I thought you had some sort of insight that would totally flip my theory around, so I was interested, but this is just pancake stuck to the ceiling.
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Zak - your theory assumes a maximum of two scum at any given time among 14 players. Not likely.
Truth be told, I mostly just wanted to see how he would react. I don't have a suicidal superpower. I just can't finish the game day (and never could, I was only supposed to be a temp for Dorian), and I'm getting mod killed because I can't finish the day, and Dorian won't replace in. Basically, my player slot will die before the lynch, and want my flip to be as useful as possible information wise.
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Then just a hint to light on, capt h - while I assure that I have had no dealings in the murder of Kiro, I note that I ejaculated at the start of the day that "I trust whoever killed him will inform us as necessary" - if I were the killer myself, that alone should have been hint enough that I should share it when I deemed it necessary.
In this case I would deem it the highest level of priority, and find that Zak's explanation makes a frightful amount of sense. Town is already dealt a blow in a sense by a conversion, to make it cost scum would not be the strangest thing... and to deny town any information would make the non-flip purely anti-town, as it confirms no suspicions and lends no information to derive wagons from.
Now then! I'll probably find myself voting Shadoweh as per my earlier case, for she still hasn't improved, but I also want Chaore to put some votes in because Hanged Hourai makes observations that I find stunning on his part but they ring quite true.
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Anyway, the simplest answer to the NK to me is that it's an SK of some sort. We already had at least two information roles, so piling a vig on top of it doesn't make sense, although could be scum. I know Bard has some unorthodox practices before (once claiming the NK AS SCUM), so the fact that he immediately claimed a vig shot at the beginning of the game, and there actually is an extra kill floating around, made me think of him. I figured he could use some pressure, knock some info out of him.
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Zak - your theory assumes a maximum of two scum at any given time among 14 players. Not likely.
Truth be told, I mostly just wanted to see how he would react. I don't have a suicidal superpower. I just can't finish the game day (and never could, I was only supposed to be a temp for Dorian), and I'm getting mod killed because I can't finish the day, and Dorian won't replace in. Basically, my player slot will die before the lynch, and want my flip to be as useful as possible information wise.
Unless the game started with three scum.
Well, there's better ways to dig up information than fake vigging on such weak reasoning. Like, I dunno, fakevigging on good reasoning. Or just, providing good reasoning. But whatever. I'm in a state of disappointment not unlike that of when a child realizes that the performance of a magic trick they just watched doesn't actually involve real magic.
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Anyway, the simplest answer to the NK to me is that it's an SK of some sort. We already had at least two information roles, so piling a vig on top of it doesn't make sense, although could be scum. I know Bard has some unorthodox practices before (once claiming the NK AS SCUM), so the fact that he immediately claimed a vig shot at the beginning of the game, and there actually is an extra kill floating around, made me think of him. I figured he could use some pressure, knock some info out of him.
If I find my nightly escapades are any way obtrused by your actions I will have your head in the post-game. :toot:
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Re: Bardiche and the Mysterious NightKill Claim
The key difference between Bard's claim that game, and Bard's claim this game is that a person died in the previous game. Shadoweh is, in fact, still alive now.
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Re: Bardiche and the Mysterious NightKill Claim
The key difference between Bard's claim that game, and Bard's claim this game is that a person died in the previous game. Shadoweh is, in fact, still alive now.
Are you really saying that we would be able to tell if Bard was the NK because he would call his kills every game?
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Don't mind Shadoweh, She's just trying to push the lynch onto Schezo to help cover up her new scum buddies. :V
Don't be daft. According to you I just swung a lynch from the scum recruiter to a town power role. I'd be less pickable then PX if he were still alive. I want to lynch Schezo because I think he is scum thank you kindly.
On Yakuza.. I don't see this on the other wiki but they seem to mention some games where a Yakuza tries to recruit, uhm. Do they normally flip as null? Can you link me to this power description?
Bard you jerk stop trying to vote for me. Your case on me involved too kawaii desu 4 u and a bunch of random nonsense.
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http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Yakuza
Normally, no, but I can easily see someone adding that in as a form of balance.
It's also possible that there is a Janitor, and through a loophole in how Janitors work, he might have chosen to clean up the body of a Yakuza.
Also, I'm not getting we're people are pulling "PX is a role" out of, considering LLD proved that people with roles who flip have their details posted, and PX had no relevant details posted.
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You're right, Sakuya the Night Hunter Vampire sounds completely vanilla. Or maybe it's because I'm a Vanilla Town human and I am SO GODDAMN JEALOUS OF YOU PEOPLE AND YOUR GOD DAMN POWER ROLES.
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Here since it's not obvious to the rest of you, this is why I didn't like PX's claim. He just claimed boring Vanilla Town. Here's huh what's claim.
One more thing. I'm Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Vanilla Townie and human.
Kiro did the same thing as PX. You want some amazing deductive reasoning from me for why I did this thing, when I got everyone revved up to lynch Kiro in the first place, but I paniced at his claim, thought we could sort it out the next day, and went for the other person that I thought was lying. It seemed like the right thing to do at the time.
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@Bardiche: After... painfully reading the wagon again and again, I believe there is indeed probably at least one scum on Kiro's wagon, yes. The wagon is so absurdly weird I don't think that scum could honestly have had the idea to do it by themselves. I do honestly think that if they had the chance, they -would- hop onto the wagon even knowing it'll flip town. Looking with this in mind, I'd actually say Conqueror looks the worst in that regard- While you've got your whole 'hate everything' and I'm not really sure where along the line you decided you were convinced with Kiro is scum, Conqueror doesn't seem like he should have this much reservation for some reason. It mostly comes for when he says he doesn't want a Kiro lynch- His posts don't read 'I'd prefer not to lynch Kiro because I like PX better', it reads as 'I don't want to lynch Kiro because I don't think it'd work out or because the rest of the game isn't here and would look poorly on it'. This literally implies that PX looks worse to him, yet he waits a good long while after the wagon is made to switch. His hesitation to lynch Kiro seems more out of the fact it'd look bad than any sort of belief someone is worse or Kiro is better than PX- And the Kiro wagon -was- looking possible for a while. This kind of hesitation just doesn't seem townie to me.
Therefore, ##Vote: Conqueror.
Otherwise on the wagon, Zakeri's wish to lynch Kiro honestly seemed like a townie case to me, Shadoweh is...honestly a bit baffling with her random lynch insistence, but I don't think she's scum mostly because PX. She said she didn't want to see PX dead before, but now that she wanted Huhwhat alive, she had to kill him to keep HW alive unless she started a wagon on someone else- Cue Kiro wagon. Huhwhat is honestly the worst of the three starters if only because I have this desire to kill his case with a sledgehammer, but that may be because of all the scumpairing and 'his case on me' in it, but his motive of 'not me over me' seems undamning and while I still have reservations about completely clearing him, he looks townie. As for you, despite I don't get why you're acting like you were convinced of Scum Kiro after saying he looked townie and going all 'I hate all of you' before you voted him, but your hesitation seems like normal 'What the christ is going on' and dislike of the wagon.
Other than the Kiro wagoneers, Dormio yesterday didn't impress me much at all, and I'm...kind of wondering why the hell he stayed silent through -all- of the going ons at the end of yesterday except for incomprehensible babble, but he honestly does look better than he did when I initially made my case, and seeing as I think Kiro is town, I'm also going to consider his point about how fast the Dormio wagon dissolving. I honestly don't like him still for some reason, but I will admit he has improved and I don't think I'd want to lynch him at this moment.
I forgot Schezo existed in this game, but I seriously think it may be a bit absurd to consider scum with someone that has only 4 posts to his name. He seriously just feels...wrong! In all sense of the word, What the hell. He definitely doesn't look good but he just looks so bad for all the reasons that make my head hurt and what the hell. I don't particularly like him, but I really don't think he may be scum.
Hourai, for all he attacks me, honestly seems rather close to my posting methods and just based on that I want to clear him. On the other hand, I simply can't look at him and say that he looks extremely townie, his laser-focus on me and Schezo has literally assured he has missed -every bandwagon up until today-. That honestly just seems kind of wrong in a sense, but I like him more than the rest of my considerations.
Capt. H is about to be modkilled, but for what it's worth I don't think he's scum, and I've said it in red- I don't believe Uncertain Kitten is scum.
Therefore my ordering for scumminess would be Conqueror > Schezo >>> Hourai > Dormio > Huhwhat > Believe is Townies.
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Also Zak's theory makes a scary amount of sense considering Kiro's dying comment.
Wow, this sure is gonna be something. Assuming I'm still alive in Day 3, I will have comments on peoples.
..Because if it's true there'd be no way for Kiro to be alive. In fact there's no last minute reads or reactions considering he was two minutes away from being lynched. I.. Foobar.
I forgot Schezo existed in this game, but I seriously think it may be a bit absurd to consider scum with someone that has only 4 posts to his name. He seriously just feels...wrong! In all sense of the word, What the hell. He definitely doesn't look good but he just looks so bad for all the reasons that make my head hurt and what the hell. I don't particularly like him, but I really don't think he may be scum.
I don't think I can read this. What about Schezo do you find scummy? Do you find him scummy? You just said you're willing to lynch him but I don't feel like you've read his posts before saying this. He's your second choice, can you detail what about his posts don't look good to you?
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Hey UK, any thoughts on any of this?
Since this is the first day with a new vampire, and near the end of my game, I'd like to hear more from you (and definitely Schezo) before I leave. You're usually more... involved in the game. The only player you've talked about today is Chaore, and your reads are backed by almost no substance (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663640.html#msg663640) - you say scum or town, but you don't say why, and your read on Chaore seems to be based on gut.
Frankly, you seem fairly demotivated, and your play looks different. I'd like to see some cases from you before I die. Did you just become a vampire?
No, I really mean it, did you just become a vampire? I could completely understand losing your drive if that happened. I mean sure it's early in the day and maybe you'll get more in later, but I don't have much to work with.
Also, Schezo, please post something before I die. Silence is hard to read.
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To be honest I was busy today, and after two mislynches I heavily supported, I'm just a wee bit demoralized. Further, I've been reading...some theory ^-^. I think that my gut read on Chaore is one of the most pro town things I can do right now. I also gave my reads as promised, so it's actually a complete lie to say I've only mentioned Chaore. FURTHER, I asked a question about the case on Shadoweh earlier, one I still haven't seen answered. I was kind of hoping someone would enlighten me on that?
Not sure how I feel about Zak's theory. Honestly, it feels contrived. I honestly would find an ITP more likely than what Zak proposes. I think I've said that already too. Chaore's recent posting hasn't really given me any reason to doubt my gut.
So, capt. h., what's with the misreps? Run out of real things to accuse me of ^-^?
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@Shadoweh: Okay, sure.
Even though it's an ED1 case, Schezo's first post has the huhwhat case has the big caveat that it simply never uses the word scummy. But more importantly it -never- actually explains 'why'. It's that annoying trait of saying 'this is what someone did' and treating it as a reason by itself. Town never abandons the most important aspect of explaining your cases. His Kiro stance is also hypocritical given he never follows up on that sentiment during the day- in fact, until late D2 he keeps entirely on this 4 stance off UK, Kiro, Huhwhat, and Dormio. His blurb on UK is a random clear he never explains, and he just gives the standard 'Dormio looks weird' without explaining why.
His second post kind of looks better, but I pretty much zoom straight in at the bottom response to Hourai's cut that basically reads to me as 'Fuck, look I just think Dormio looks bad, stop asking me to explain it'. In this regard it's kind of trying to keep it making sense if he doesn't get his Huhwhat lynch for him to switch to Dormio without making a case. Given the Huhwhat case didn't look like it would go somewhere, this kind of seems like a scummy thing to do. He continues his clearing on Kiro here as well.
His third post is a mix of continuing his huhwhat case and continuing to try and dissuade the Kiro case of UK's. So nothing new- Except for the bottom, which is all three of the things that you asked him to deliver, if I recall. He neglects to give any information about what he thinks of me and Capt. H and similarly neglects to say anything about the townie lynch that just occured. This entire post is essentially saying nothing, which is bad.
His fourth post is a full day later, and he says he doesn't like the LLD wagon in a few words after most of us have already made our stances. He brings up his HW case again, seeing that HW is still a viable lynch, and really doesn't add much more and says the infamous 'Needs a lynch' ender. It doesn't help his case is back to avoiding using scummy, he doesn't explain what he's finding bad, and it also seems to be an add-on more based on Huhwhat being defensive and trying to make that look bad. At this point Dormio's wagon dissolved, so he ends up calling Dormio derp town all of a sudden, using a response to Kiro as the excuse for his sudden dropped scum read. There's also the ending about continuing a read on a promised PX read that never came, which is bad (Though from my disappearance and failure to post that day as well I've no reason to shout from my glass house) but honestly leaves me the -worst- feeling. This is... Hardly even a PLAYER I'm reading here. It's like I'm reading a cliff notes of a few posts you'd get from clicking links on a case. It just makes me very uneasy.
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To be honest I was busy today, and after two mislynches I heavily supported, I'm just a wee bit demoralized. Further, I've been reading...some theory ^-^. I think that my gut read on Chaore is one of the most pro town things I can do right now. I also gave my reads as promised, so it's actually a complete lie to say I've only mentioned Chaore. FURTHER, I asked a question about the case on Shadoweh earlier, one I still haven't seen answered. I was kind of hoping someone would enlighten me on that?
Not sure how I feel about Zak's theory. Honestly, it feels contrived. I honestly would find an ITP more likely than what Zak proposes. I think I've said that already too. Chaore's recent posting hasn't really given me any reason to doubt my gut.
So, capt. h., what's with the misreps? Run out of real things to accuse me of ^-^?
I don't know. I kind of lose it when I know I'm going to die.
Anyway, reads:
Bardiche: Suspicious. I'm not sure what his reasons for voting Kiro were. He seems to kind of break down.
Dormio: town
Schezo: scum. And I'm annoyed he isn't back here.
Shadoweh: suspicious. Her reads are all over the place, even if for decent reasons. Her case today is on Schezo; I would appreciate if she would give reads on other players.
Hanged Hourai: ???
Zak: town
Huh What: probably town
Conq: ???
Chaore: The more I think about it, he's probably town, if we believe his claim to have visited UK. Unless we really think that somehow Kiro is scum (I don't think I see it). He flipped the wagons hard and the risk of his own neck because he didn't want Kiro lynched. That only makes sense for scum Chaore if he was on a scum team with Kiro. I'm not confident enough in a non-flip to go that route.
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Oh, and UK: probably town.
(Note: all reads based largely on yesterday. Now that I've thought about it, there's no way I can have strong enough reads on any newly-converted scum.)
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Hush, I'm back and making that post you all want. >_>
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Alright, so let's talk about why huh what is still scum
Since the start of day 2, he was pushing Dormio like no tomorrow literally. Look at how hard he's pushing for Dormio in his case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661654.html#msg661654). After a while he makes the big PX case (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662575.html#msg662575) and drops Dormio for being Derpmio. What happened between his Dormio and pX case was the Dormio not taking off like he was hoping towards mislynchdom and the PX wagon gaining steam and fast. This isn't damning in un itself since his PX case is rather solid but later he pulls a fucking wagon on Kiro 5 hours to deadline (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662832.html#msg662832)! In what looks to me to be bad self preservation to get Zakeri to back him on lynching someone else since there weren't many people at deadline since Zakeri wasn't buying a PX lynch. Huh What's case on Kiro doesn't seem as strong as his PX one so this is screaming self preservation. Though, here the only way I can see this redeemable for Huh What is if Kiro really is a Yakuza thing who kills himself with the convert. I'm not entertaining the idea that scum team would kill themselves (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663861.html#msg663861) to just look better because that's just beyond stupid. But I don't see the Yakuza thing unless someone can explain in more detail why there is one? I'm personally more inclined to believe a limited Janitor Serial Killer about how Kiro died. That's the most plausible thing I can think of since the mod did say that scum was doing a convert last night, not a night kill. I also will confess that I believe Kiro was telling the truth about his role being watcher and being town since Chaore's and his reports match up, unless people are going to push a Chaore/Kiro scumteam.
Back to Huh what. He had a chance to keep his PX wagon going if he left his vote there (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662853.html#msg662853)since his Kiro case doesn't strike me as him believing in it as much as he believed in his PX case so why was he voting Kiro again? Oh yeah, as scum he wants a more difficult to obtain mislynch out of the way since objectively PX would be an easier target to go after later.
##Vote: Huh What
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Now Shadoweh's Wall (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663596.html#msg663596)
First thing I want to comment on is your using me not commenting on LLD as a point against me. I don't see it, there was almost nothing there I had to say about before that post, not much had happened between UK/Bard/LLD yet. The comment was just there for her benefit so she didn't think I was ignoring her since it was UK's question in the first place.
Your updated huh what case doesn't make sense to me. The point about UK's stange spat with huh what lacks you actually giving an opinion on it.
it's just how it reads. HW was giving LLD hell for saying Hourai was town after UK did the same thing. It's bad as it shows his scummy selective reading.
Now for your questions.
-Where did I say 64 was backtracking?
-Stuff like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660035.html#msg660035) was making sense and to the point with active scumhunting.
-wasn't here
-^
-No, somewhere along the line, I think it became less of a "let's lynch scum" and more " let's lynch this emotion provoking, antitownie"
-just did (see above)
- Kiro's wagon: Despite what people were thinking and think now, I believe Kiro to be town, don't find the case on him all that, so I wouldn't have supported it.
PX's wagon: I found him to be scummy and for all intents and purposes I would have voted for him. Take that as you will.
You can see what I think of HW up there.
-I wasn't here for day 2's deadline also, my schedule has been awkward this game. I also resent this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662932.html#msg662932), since I was not here all night. And are you mocking me about my huh what case? I want the fucker to go through since he's scum!
"Who do you think is scum now and why?"
You.
Let's start.
I'll start with this what this fuck comment (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664069.html#msg664069) you just made about Kiro to try and further everyone's thoughts on a conspiracy floating around.
I want you to tell me. How someone who just read they are the leading wagon and will die in two minutes, bar a last second change, is hinting at that they are really going to suicide when they use their night action and aren't talking about how they are about to be lynched?
Moving on to your three:
-Nope I have no opinions at this time. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661568.html#msg661568)
-Still have no opinions with a vote to their name. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661881.html#msg661881)
-"Hi I'm coasting! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661961.html#msg661961) I also like to show indifference towards my supposed town partners by not trying my best to try and lynch scum. Oh what else? I feel entitled to this because I was vigged when the game started. ^_^" AMIRITE?!
I'm not satisfied with your answer (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662805.html#msg662805) to be antitown
But now Shadoweh, what the fuck were you doing at the end of day 2?
-PX is bad, let's lynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662818.html#msg662818)
-"Huh what, my partner, I followed you to the PX wagon, how about I help you to get Kiro~ Sounds fucking super!" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662840.html#msg662840) No, what is the hell is this. This is the second time you've used Huh What's reasoning as your own for a vote. Why are you all buddy buddy with him when you can't make your own opinions?
-OH SHIT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662848.html#msg662848) This puts what you're doing in perfect perspective. You and huh what can be that townie SCUM voting block that can change and sway the super close wagons to whatever you feel like. You admit you like that 5 hour to deadline wagon HW started on Kiro and show support for it by voting. No. This is bad. Scummy bad.
-More Kiro hate/ why he's scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662878.html#msg662878) >Ok look opinions, yeah I see you standing by your decision now.
-Wait a minute. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662932.html#msg662932) What the fuck? You don't like his claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662925.html#msg662925), yet you don't lynch him. The fuck!? You've commited to this wagon shittons more than you did to the PX, with your own original content yet you pop PX at the last second. OK...
Since people think I don't have my priorities straight or something. I want both Shadoweh and Huh what dead. They are scum.
Oh look a buncha stuff to address in the morning. Well whatever this took 3 hours, you're waiting until then.
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Waning Gibbous
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
Chaore (4) - Zakeri, UK, Hourai, Conqueror
Conqueror (1) - Chaore
huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Not voting: Bardiche, huh what
Chaore is at L-2
11 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
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=D oh hai Schezo
Now Shadoweh's Wall (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663596.html#msg663596)
First thing I want to comment on is your using me not commenting on LLD as a point against me. I don't see it, there was almost nothing there I had to say about before that post, not much had happened between UK/Bard/LLD yet. The comment was just there for her benefit so she didn't think I was ignoring her since it was UK's question in the first place.
Okay, no, I mean why didn't you comment on LLD say, when she was being wagoned and lynched as scum instead of your huh what or Dormio. You know, AFTER that post you made. I'm pretty sure if I look back at when that post happened the fight between the three of them will have already started so yeah.
Now for your questions.
-Where did I say 64 was backtracking?
-Stuff like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660035.html#msg660035) was making sense and to the point with active scumhunting.
- Here you go buddy. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659861.html#msg659861) Take a look at what you said and let's try my exact question again, "What about huh what's posts were backtracking on the point in post #64?"
- You can't point to an entire post of post analysis and just say 'I like this'. There's too much information in there. It's also the opposite of 'to the point'. What about it made sense? What parts did you agree with?
I don't believe you weren't here for the deadline. I definitely don't believe you weren't here the entire night. And no I'm not mocking you.
Oh goodie more defending myself.
Considering what I'd said just before that about switching my vote off of him, Kiro would be under the belief he might in fact not get lynched if I changed my vote. He'd actually be trying to do the opposite, trying to sound like he thought he would be here tomorrow.
On your uh, scum voting block theory. Keeping in mind huh what was in the lead because I was voting for him. Yes, you caught us. Huh what and I are the scum, and we pulled a guarenteed lynch off of PX, someone who was not our scum partner, and put it onto Kiro who was also not our scum partner because we felt we weren't being obvious enough and we hadn't attracted enough attention. Then when Kiro claimed a town power role I thought town deserved a chance and instead of lurking out the deadline I redirected the lynch onto claimed vanilla town because I am the worst scum player ever what is wrong with you?! I don't see how you can think I'm paired with huh what, considering I'd be so much better off right now having bussed him for cred instead of making a scene and waffling between what you think are town wagons.
You can't accuse me of jumping onto the Kiro wagon because of huh what with no original content of my own, then accuse me of jumping off to PX despite the original content I had on Kiro. Make up your damn mind. And your version of the events are in the wrong order all over the place. It wasn't originally huh what's thought that Kiro had voted based on interactions, it was mine (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662777.html#msg662777). So was the (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662805.html#msg662805) wagon switch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662818.html#msg662818) which was actually propelled by Zakeri (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662827.html#msg662827) before huh what made his vote post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662832.html#msg662832), not huh what asking Zak to back him up like you're saying. Speaking of which your reasoning for why huh what switched to Kiro doesn't match up with me. If Huh what x Shadoweh OTP wanted to get Kiro The Hard Lynch out of the way why did I switch Schezo?
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Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
capt. h isn't gone yet. :/
Anyway.
As much as I'd like to yell at capt. h for posting town reads after the recruit went off, he's going to be modkilled later today apparently anyway, so whatever.
Moving on.
Regarding Shadoweh's #612/#613, so you're saying the reason you disliked PX's claim was because he only claimed his role.
Despite the fact that LLD's flip shows that there's more than just Human/Vampire, and that the rules state that Human/Vampire does not matter, and where the flavor and role seem un(or very loosely)connected.
Does that mean that, if I were to claim Vanilla Town, and only Vanilla Town, it would be bad to you too?
In other words, I think the reason for you not believing PX's claim is pretty bad.
And I'll do that Chaore reread tomorrow when I don't destroy my brain by getting through all of Portal 2 in one sitting.
(So, how are you holding up? Because I'm a potato.)
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Oh I just realized Bard's rant at me in regards to lynching PX is him paraphrasing my rage at him for lynching LLD. Ahaha.. :fail: Why can I never see through Bard's sarcasm.. or fakeclaims.. or crumbs.. paruparuparu
Also Schezo I don't know if you noticed but Chaore said some stuff about you too you might want to address that.
Zakeri, when did you come to the conclusion Kiro was scum? More specifically, which parts of his posts convinced you he was scum, and what convinced you to vote him over huh what? Yes I know you explained a little of it when you voted, but before that I got the impression you didn't like huh what. Actually I get the impression you still want to lynch huh what, is this truth?
Why are we clearing Bardiche's blatant bandwagon hop for being flipping insane again? No seriously why is he clear for this? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662882.html#msg662882) Why is he clear for voting with two people he thought were scum? Bard, screw your earlier case. Kiro is a janitored scum recruiter or whatever right? Why did I try to wagon him? Why did I, as scum, draw attention to the scum recruiter just to swing back to town? Why did I draw attention to -myself- like that? Don't call me thoughtless, I've explained my thoughts on my actions. You want to bring that vote back over here you better explain how my motives make sense as scum. Is huh what still looking scummy to you now?
Speaking of huh what, this is not a list of suspects (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663861.html#msg663861). This isn't a vote either. Your only suspect is the person who was at L-2 already, without a reason why? I'd think you would know scum would benefit more from an extra nightkill and vig then vigging one of their own. You currently have less opinions then Schezo, FIX THIS.
This is where my Conqueror rant would go but he's already promised me cases and explanations later. I will wait faithfully to be amazed before destroying him for having Kitten gnawing on his ear JEALOUSY. Much of my displeasure would be alleviated if his explanations include why he thinks Kiro was scum-vigginated.
ShoeCat, your theories about gut voting should also tell you to go read my posts and make your own conclusions instead of following other people's cases and being a lazy Cage. Read me over. Am I scum?
Dormio, once you read my replies to you in my other post you can read this too. You're wrong. Get off my leg. Who ELSE do you think is scum right now? Oh you cut me. I don't think LLD's flip gave her race. Yes, I would dislike you if you claimed ordinary vanilla town without trying to share all the information you could from your role pm before dying. I think my reason for not believing his claim was pretty good since HE WAS LYING. He just happened to be lying town.
God, too much conspiracy theorying, not enough questioning for scum intent. In theory we might not have to worry about the question for long. I'm also of the opinion capt.h is about to flip town. Interested in seeing Chaore's follow ups on Conqueror and Schezo. Well I think that's ever-oh wait
Hourai: I get that you think Chaore is distancing, but who are his buddies that he's distancing from, especially now that he's put up his list of suspects?
@mod Will town be informed if it's in MYLO or LYLO? Also, how many hours until capt.h is modkilled?
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Alright, I've decided that your defense against Schezo isn't that hot Shadoweh. I don't agree that you started the Kiro wagon; and agree with Schezo that Huh What did. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662832.html#msg662832) At most you just asked Kiro questions and placed pressure on him before placing your vote on PX while Huh What was the driving force behind the Kiro wagon. A lot of your original points only come after your vote (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662878.html#msg662878), and on request. I also agree with Schezo that the Kiro conspiracy seems silly to me. And your vote hop back onto PX is bad because you didn't explain it at the time and you actually did commit more to the Kiro wagon than you ever committed to the PX wagon, although that could be attributed to time. But I can't know, because you didn't explain it when you made it.
Actually, the only reason I don't think the end of day shenanigans, from your end, were necessarily scummy is because I don't see any scum advantage to them. But they were extremely suspicious.
Schezo's newest post is not scummy. I find it neutral, which is a step up, but not town. I think I would have liked it more if it wasn't so hard to follow his case on Shadoweh due to how he formats it. I think his case on you is good Shadoweh, but it's hard to follow, and I'm not sure I agree with it only because your vote hopping at the end of the day is too non-advantageous for me to conclude it was scummy.
His most recent Huh What case though isn't hot either. It mostly boils down to Huh What voting Kiro over PX when Huh What had a better PX case, after he put a great deal of effort in to his Kiro case. Though I would like Huh What to explain why he thought Kiro was not just a good lynch, but a better lynch than PX.
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Why'd you drop me so fast, capt. h.? I mean, it's probably not very useful to press you right now, but this really bugs me.
@Shadoweh: Are you scum? I sure as hell don't see it. I'll give you a look over after DnD today, but I'm fairly sure I won't find anything. So, since my gut is failing to react to you, I'm at least trying to figure out why others feel you're scum. I'm not planning to make an argument on your behalf, just try to see what they see. And maybe see if it bugs me.
...huh what? I just reread the post you linked about HW. Why the fuck does he think Chaore is the best lynch? He talks about dead people and then softly supports the growing bandwagon? I DO NOT THINK THIS IS COOL!
Anyway, I think I'll actually do a full reread after DnD. I'm not going to do a big ~*~analysis~*~ post this time though, just read through, get things together, see how I feel about everyone. This would be in about 8 or 9 hours, so you all know.
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So Chaore is gone for most of day 2, right? Let's look at his posts.
First post is pretty waffly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661632.html#msg661632) in regards to almost everyone in that post. The LLD lynch is a null tell, apparently; not "terrible" but could have been "better thought through." Definitely a fence-sitting stance on Kiro, Dormio and PX. About the only opinion I can find in there is the stuff on UK.
Second post is here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662149.html#msg662149), and it looks like the Dormio vote is not because he doesn't like Dormio's new case, but because Dormio was late in posting it. Not a scumtell; I know I'm lazy as hell in posting cases too. I also see a lot of rage at PX, but he apparently acknowledges that PX has "logical reasoning" for his LLD wagonhop, even if he was late in posting the reasoning.
Last of all, he pops in almost 24 hours later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662922.html#msg662922), this time to vent at everyone for starting a lynch on Kiro. I actually consider the last minute wagon switch a null tell because I have no idea what is going on with that. But I definitely wouldn't just call it a town action without considering the implications, which is what Shadoweh seems to have done.
So what do I find wrong with Chaore's content? Oh, you mean the fact that he was missing for most of the day, parked a vote on a wagon that wasn't going anywhere, and then came back at deadline just to save Kiro? Yeah, I'm not sure what else I can really say about this.
As for why I find Kiro's claim fishy, in addition to the SO MANY INVESTIGATIVE ROLES issue, it is because he claimed to have watched UK on night 1, when if I remember, he didn't have a very strong town feeling about her. I'm also wondering about his thought process if he apparently saw Chaore visit UK, and then his only mention of Chaore throughout the day is to mention that Chaore has moved from an "ok read" to a "not-so-ok read," before Chaore is fine again at deadline.
So I'll requote myself here:
Kiro may have had other ways of receiving the info that he did, but I don't think he was being completely honest with his claim.
Or he could have just made the claim up to buy him time until Night 2.
It mostly comes for when he says he doesn't want a Kiro lynch- His posts don't read 'I'd prefer not to lynch Kiro because I like PX better', it reads as 'I don't want to lynch Kiro because I don't think it'd work out or because the rest of the game isn't here and would look poorly on it'.
What. You think I'm scum for not wanting to start a last minute bandwagon on someone? Yeah, I was pretty sure it wouldn't work out, and there was no way I was going to let a huh what lynch go through just because we botched both the Kiro and PX lynches.
This literally implies that PX looks worse to him, yet he waits a good long while after the wagon is made to switch.
PX was looking (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661967.html#msg661967) pretty (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662673.html#msg662673)scummy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662803.html#msg662803)for a while. I only really started thinking about Kiro near the end of the day, after this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662670.html#msg662670) of his, and it only got worse. Also, your sentence answers itself.
His hesitation to lynch Kiro seems more out of the fact it'd look bad than any sort of belief someone is worse or Kiro is better than PX- And the Kiro wagon -was- looking possible for a while. This kind of hesitation just doesn't seem townie to me.
If I made the switch to Kiro and PX turned out to be scum, I'd look pretty fucking bad, wouldn't I?
So yeah, I find Chaore's "case" on me to be unimpressive. Anything else you want to say, or is that all?
if his explanations include why he thinks Kiro was scum-vigginated.
:? Can't explain something I never said or implied.
I thought it was highly likely Chaore was the targetter from his reaction to the claim.
What targetter?
I'll be back later with more, life calls.
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My cat was doing some reading while I was gone. Shadoweh, if you thought PX was lying about his claim why did you suggest (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662805.html#msg662805)that we lynch Kiro IMMEDIATELY after he claimed?"
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Alright, I've decided that your defense against Schezo isn't that hot Shadoweh.
I do not care. Half of you think I'm scum for trying to wagon town Kiro. Half of you think I'm scum for saving scum Kiro. I don't win either way. You're not going to convince me a case against myself is good, because it's not. Let's for the sake of argument agree with you that Kiro is town and huh what started the wagon on him. Why are you reading everyone else on the Kiro wagon as town?
Conqueror: Okay, let me rephrase, what do you think happened to Kiro? I assume you think both Kiro and Chaore lied. I didn't notice his claim during that post, it happened while I was re-reading five-hundred other text walls. Note my post right after is me voting PX for not liking his claim. :p
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Yes, town will be informed if it is in LyLO or MyLO. Also, after some deliberation, I've decided that capt.h shall be modkilled at around 0200 GMT +0 hrs, around 12 hours later and halfway through the game day, Hopefully this will give him enough time to post all he wants to post.
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Why'd you drop me so fast, capt. h.? I mean, it's probably not very useful to press you right now, but this really bugs me.
Because my case was stupid at the time, and I was criticized for my stupidity by non-players, so I got depressed and reverted back to my day 2 reads until I got some sleep in. I didn't think I would have time to make another case, so I just posted some reads and went to bed.
To be honest I was busy today, and after two mislynches I heavily supported, I'm just a wee bit demoralized. Further, I've been reading...some theory ^-^. I think that my gut read on Chaore is one of the most pro town things I can do right now. I also gave my reads as promised, so it's actually a complete lie to say I've only mentioned Chaore. FURTHER, I asked a question about the case on Shadoweh earlier, one I still haven't seen answered. I was kind of hoping someone would enlighten me on that?
However, a gut read on Chaore is not one of the most pro-town things you can do. It's incredibly anti-town, because 1. It doesn't provide any evidence, 2. No one can defend against a gut read, and 3. You never have to explain the logic by which you reached your gut read.
I'm not asking you to ignore your gut, but to take your gut read and find evidence to support it. Saying your gut read on everyone is nice, but with no evidence to support any of those reads they all fall apart in seconds. Don't tell me you have a bad feeling about him, show me something Chaore said or did that gave you a bad feeling about him.
Given how lovely my ~*~logical~*~ reads have gone, I think I'm going to try this gut thing. (I will try to form a better case on him after I work today, but for now you get GUT =D!)
I highly advise not dramatically changing your play style the day after a townie became scum.
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I do not care. Half of you think I'm scum for trying to wagon town Kiro. Half of you think I'm scum for saving scum Kiro. I don't win either way. You're not going to convince me a case against myself is good, because it's not. Let's for the sake of argument agree with you that Kiro is town and huh what started the wagon on him. Why are you reading everyone else on the Kiro wagon as town?
I had a fairly strong town read on PX that I didn't have on Kiro. I'm not too suspicious of the Kiro wagon; I'd choose ? over town. I'm more suspicious of players that actually thought PX was scum at the end of the day than players that thought Kiro could be scum.
I'm not trying to convince you that a case against yourself is good; I'm trying to decide if you're scum.
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Conqueror: Okay, let me rephrase, what do you think happened to Kiro? I assume you think both Kiro and Chaore lied. I didn't notice his claim during that post, it happened while I was re-reading five-hundred other text walls. Note my post right after is me voting PX for not liking his claim. :p
Yeah, but then your next full post right after that was a wagon on Kiro, despite PX doing nothing a grand total of nothing. :P Also, what targetter?
As for Kiro, it's hard to tell what happened, and I think it's leading to a bunch of conspiracy theories. What Zak says makes a lot of sense and is what I consider most likely right now.
I've also considered the possibility of a third party. Also that PX might have a vengeful kill of some kind (looking at his role name and character). A janitor shot is anti-town enough that I understand why he wouldn't want to claim it (though this doesn't explain why we weren't given a role description in his flip) and considering what happened with the waffle in MRM I could totally see PX using it.
But again, it's impossible to tell and any ideas that are thrown around are basically conspiracy theories. I think it's safe to say though that whatever happened wasn't done by a townie though (unless it's PX) because they would have claimed it by now.
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@capt. h.: I don't need to explain anything. It is in fact somewhat anti town to try to make a big case out of things. Yeah, that's right, I'm going into Cases Are Scummy mode. As for not dramatically changing my playstyle, I'd be more worried about doing that if I had anything to fear. We'll see how I feel in detail after my reread.
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Also, what targetter?
Kiro claimed watcher + Kiro claimed to have seen someone targetting UK = Possible targetter out there is what I meant. Also are you going to slam me for attacking Kiro and waffling on PX or attacking PX and waffling on Kiro? You're playing a stupid gotcha game with me and it's irritating.
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Not a gotcha game. I'm trying to figure out why you did this.
You didn't believe PX's claim. You voted for Kiro still. Why?
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Because I didn't like Kiro either by that point. That's why I'm annoyed, I wanted to vote both of them. You're asking me to justify why I picked between two people I was suspicious of as if one means I was forgiving the other. Putting Kiro's scummy action against PX's scummy claim. I thought it was more likely that PX just left the flavor out.
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Good enough for me. There's a reason I was voting Kiro by the end of the day, too.
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Be sure to ask Kitten how wonderful my choosing skills are in relation to my Diplomacy orders when I drink. >.> Speaking of which I can't remember the last time I've slept, so I think I'm going to fix that soon. Interrogate someone who might actually be scum, townies!
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The Case is starting to stagnate, Chaore's claims make sense even given the Scum Kiro theory I propose, I notice people are getting too hot and bothered under the collar about the Kiro case in the first place, and have started to ignore other things, Chaore is the strongest bandwagon, and I want to encourage other bandwagons to have some prosperity, and York spilled his coffee over a news article about how the U.N. is voting over something and it's causing Chaos and a Retribution or Reinforcment or I dunno, the whole paper was ruined, but
##Unvote: Chaore
I'm going to go back and reread the game again. This whole game is starting to look worse and worse.
In the meantime, feel free to throw out half-ass suspicions and meaningless calls of "Rolefishing" But it would help me immensely if everyone were to claim if they were a human or a vampire. No names, no alignments (though, if you're feeling insecure, I guess you could add the word town), and no role abilities. Just your species. Please note that there's no reason to lie about your species, because Affinity plainly states in the rules not to assume that all vampires are scum and that all humans are town. I assure everyone that this serves a town purpose that's not directly related to determining alignment.
@capt. h.: I don't need to explain anything. It is in fact somewhat anti town to try to make a big case out of things. Yeah, that's right, I'm going into Cases Are Scummy mode. As for not dramatically changing my playstyle, I'd be more worried about doing that if I had anything to fear. We'll see how I feel in detail after my reread.
Do you have any backing behind why you don't need to explain anything? This reads to me that you're either an Investigative role, Have some sort of innocent child-like role, or you've just given up on being town and are letting scum wave their Embodiment of Scarlet Devil in our faces, and considering our game's first lynch was both of the first two things I mentioned, I'm getting really worried about the implications behind this comment.
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It's a rather long thread, Zakeri~. It also would be citing a PM about mafia theory that I'd prefer not to share. Though the thread on it's own should be decent. Mostly stick to Lord Gurgi's posts (http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17727)
It's covered somewhere.
Anyway, I'm a human Zak.
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@Zakeri: I'm a human. Though from what you said, doesn't that mean this doesn't matter at all?
@Conqueror: I apologize for not being able to write up an adequate post at 3 in the morning, after losing previous post twice. I wasn't about to bring that up as frankly I can prove it as well as you can prove I am lying, but It's the basis of your case and I'm adressing it, seems. Oh, and how about Capt. H and Hourai, Hourai who did mostly the same thing with a vote on me when absolutely no one expressed interest in lynching me, and Capt. H who stuck his vote on Schezo and -was- there to decide not to be on the wagons? This is the exact same thing you are saying I am scum for, you have expressed no suspicions towards either of them, and infact both of them had their votes on people who were never actual wagons when they were voting. So this leaves the main decider being the Kiro wagon switch. So you've basically come out after a long line of people have come down on me for that, and are taking advantage of this along with my inactiveness to make it look like you have a legit case on me. Interesting.
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Chaore: Do you have any reads besides Conqueror? If you do, post them (or link if you've already made some.) Also, consider that right now, you have three votes on you, and everyone else only has a single vote. Would you sqitch to any of the other wagons for the posterity of the rest of the day not being a steamroll on you? If so, who would you vote, and why?
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*Switch
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Oh I just realized Bard's rant at me in regards to lynching PX is him paraphrasing my rage at him for lynching LLD. Ahaha.. :fail: Why can I never see through Bard's sarcasm.. or fakeclaims.. or crumbs.. paruparuparu
Well, good!
Still seeing nothing I'd want to vote over Shadoweh, and I maintain that she's the scummiest so far. She's been extremely lazy in scumhunting, wasted parts of D1 and D2 under the guise of "but I was angry!" and made retarderp cases/votes. I'll forgive swinging the wagon to PX as a herpderp action that doesn't point to scumminess but rather negligent use of reasoning faculties, but I'll still hold that she's scum and I don't feel like restating everything I've said before. Also, GUT CHECK.
Chaore's finally started scumhunting but I also wouldn't mind his lynch for how long he stalled actually doing any of it.
I'm human.
/me high fives UK. Screw cases, let's using gut!
The bright side of this game is that I've never felt this close to UK before. We're really bonding here.
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It was obviously the serenading. All you have to do is drop Shadoweh and we can all be a KAWAII DESU NE TOWN BLOCK!
It's OK Shadoweh, I don't think you're scum! THERE IS AT LEAST ONE HALF OF THE GAME THAT FINDS YOU TOWN. Yes, I now count myself as half the game! I BET I HAVE HALF THE POSTS!
Done with DnD so reread will happen at an unspecified time that will be before I go to sleep tonight.
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Consider Shadomeh dropped like a bad habit.
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Are you actually serious? Cause if you are...
Bard, Shadoweh, Zak, UK. Voting block. Now. Top scum reads. I currently have Chaore and Huh What between gut and my one confirmation scum/one non confirmation scum theory. I have no guesses for the recruited scum yet.
I need to reread to see if I want anyone else in the block.
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Also someone claimed I was bandwagon hopping on Kiro, maybe you should try reading the posts preceding my vote, the ones where I point out things about Kiro I dislike directly before deciding to vote him. ┐(￣ー￣)┌ Come on bro it's not like agreeing someone's actions have been scummy is terrible or anything. If I was scum I would've not jumped on Kiro at all because hell, the game could've gone any way and if I pretended to be Away no one'd really give two shits given how little activity we have 'round deadline. (￣ー￣) You just mad cuz biased against me, as proven by the ##Morphine shenanigans.
Cut by UK. Are you for real? ┐( ?∀? )┌
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Just realised my vote isn't actually on Shadoweh. ##Vote: Shadoweh SORRY UK, I think she's scum. I also think Chaore is scummy and I'd be happy to lynch either of them for the day. S'pose I can be sold for Schezo as well but he's not as strongly scum as the other two are to me.
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UK, if you are town, I advise not staying quiet right now.
There are plenty of times to have a revelation and turn your scum hunting on it's head. Now isn't it. Today is the day everyone will look back upon and try to figure out who became scum. I really don't think refusing to make cases, especially today, is a good idea.
You don't have to be the center of attention, but if you are town, please don't decide that now is a good time to start playing super anti-town. Even if you yourself don't consider this new play scummy, it's unprecidented for you, and it looks scummy. If nothing else, I would like to see a couple cases built on evidence rather than gut reads. If only so that I can tell that this UK is the same player I played with yesterday.
From a strategy standpoint, I don't understand scum Chaore's play yesterday. Derp is null, but I don't think scum would jump onto PX like Chaore did, when silence is preferable. I think it's much more likely that Chaore really did target UK, because that's the best reason I can think for him being completely opposed to a Kiro lynch and immediately believing Kiro's claim.
*cut 8 times
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I'm not playing anti town at all, capt. h. Just because you say it's anti town doesn't make it so. I've shown you where I'm coming from. If that's not good enough for you, then you'll have to :dwi:. As for unprecedented UK, it's not really. It's unusual, but I've played minimalist for short periods of time to get reactions. I'm just doing a more extreme version of that. And finally, meta is bad for you, stop taking that drug.
As for Bard, yes, I'm serious. But you don't seem to want to be. We can make this shit real by lynching Chaore. I've only gotten through page 6 in my reread but I can already see HW scum, Bard town, Shadoweh town. I'm kind of amazed I missed HW scum before. Chaore scum is still a thing though and more people seem to be willing to go for that, so let's go go go!
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If I was a survivor, I'd take you up on that offer more. :(
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Is UK suggesting a quicklynch?
@Zakeri: Human, here.
Will make a post when I can.
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Maybe you should explain your Voting Block idea more.
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Not a quicklynch. Just I want to see votes on Chaore. The go go go is more me being manic because I feel like I can have some fun now.
That said, my Voting Block idea is that everyone in the voting block assumes town on each other (subject to revocation for obvscumminess, of course). We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch. After enough arguing we figure out who we want lynched, and pile our four votes on them. And then the other votes just fall on because ~*~everyone wants to be with the townies~*~. Consider it an oligarchy. It's a technique to lead a desperately unlead town. We should NEVER have had two non majority lynches in a row. So I'm fixing that now. Why I didn't propose this at the start of the day was mostly because I was weighing how much the recruit would affect things among my town reads. The posting I've seen today does not really disturb me though. That sound a bit better?
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And both Shadoweh and Zak already agree to this plan of yours?
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In other words, you want to take control of the lynch with four players chosen by yourself.
And I really don't like the wording in "We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch." Isn't that what you should be doing anyway?
I'd be more worried about people that agree to this, methinks.
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Yes, but it's clear this town doesn't seem good at that "compromise" part. Half of it seems bad at keeping us updated on their reads. So I'm reducing the number of people that matter to my town reads. I want to see what they say about this. We need leadership, and since no one else is stepping up, I'll do it.
If it helps any I mostly think you're town Dormio, I just don't trust your reads enough to put you in the block.
@Bard: I'm proposing it now to you all. I want to see their opinions.
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You know UK, If you had said "post 89 in the town spoilers section" instead of just linking to the first page of the thread it might have been easier to see where you were coming from. In the first 2 and a half pages he talks a lot about setup, and how 50/50 chance of winning means instant town death. Also about town unity.
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Sorry about that, I was running DnD when I linked, so I didn't really have time to ferret through the thread. I would have gotten the precise post otherwise.
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Not a quicklynch. Just I want to see votes on Chaore. The go go go is more me being manic because I feel like I can have some fun now.
That said, my Voting Block idea is that everyone in the voting block assumes town on each other (subject to revocation for obvscumminess, of course). We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch. After enough arguing we figure out who we want lynched, and pile our four votes on them. And then the other votes just fall on because ~*~everyone wants to be with the townies~*~. Consider it an oligarchy. It's a technique to lead a desperately unlead town. We should NEVER have had two non majority lynches in a row. So I'm fixing that now. Why I didn't propose this at the start of the day was mostly because I was weighing how much the recruit would affect things among my town reads. The posting I've seen today does not really disturb me though. That sound a bit better?
Every single game we should do this.
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capt. h: I think you're bad and you should feel bad for suggesting that.
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I'm not sure I feel comfortable with Bard being a part of the block. Would need to finish re-reading to be sure.
Aside from that, the strategy itself seems reasonable, but it also seems like something that would be very alienating to people outside the block. Something that demotivates townies is not entirely working towards our best interest. I would definitely be against us doing this every single game, but considering how fucked up town is right now, I wouldn't oppose it for our current situation.
I've been trying to read the thread and write a post for a long time but my brain is kind of shut off right now, and I don't feel I can get a clear read on anybody at all. Ugh.
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capt. h: I think you're bad and you should feel bad for suggesting that.
Wait, sorry, I misread.
That said, my Voting Block idea is that everyone in the voting block assumes town on each other (subject to revocation for obvscumminess, of course). We each keep updated top scum reads and who we want lynched, who we'll compromise for, and who we aren't going to lynch. After enough arguing we figure out who we want lynched, and pile our four votes on them. And then the other votes just fall on because ~*~everyone wants to be with the townies~*~. Consider it an oligarchy. It's a technique to lead a desperately unlead town. We should NEVER have had two non majority lynches in a row. So I'm fixing that now. Why I didn't propose this at the start of the day was mostly because I was weighing how much the recruit would affect things among my town reads. The posting I've seen today does not really disturb me though. That sound a bit better?
Fixed. I agree with the plan now.
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By vote blocking, UK means that we just all agree to assume everyone else in the group is town, and then work together to root through the other players. It's sort of like agreeing to Hydra except you're doing it after the game starts and naturally, you can only do it with other players in other player slots. The intention of which is to create a group that acts like a Masonry, except without the confirmed town or the private quicktopic.
I don't think Lynching Chaore would be the right way to go today. In fact, considering that the day started with everyone jumping onto his quick unvote as the sole reason he's scum, and nobody jumping off despite him explaining everything he was held up to, I would say that ending the day with a Chaore lynch would be a bad idea even if he was scum. The thing is: Even if we do lynch him, what do we get out of it? If he flips scum, there won't be too many links to be found in the previous days, except to maybe Kiro, which would get us nowhere. If he flips town, then we're set back all the way to midday 2 in terms of scumreads. In fact, I'd wager that some scum have jumped onto the Chaore wagon for this express purpose.
Cut: Dormio The thing about vote blocking is that this is how town is ideally suppose to be working in the first place. If we keep to a small group, and keep it organized, then we basically turn into a miniature town group. The major downside to this would be if two scum are hiding in the group, and with recruitment that chance is slightly larger than I would prefer.
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@Dormio: I don't think you understand the power of alliance.
@HW: You're pretty much right. Doing it every game would be pretty terrible and encourage elitism. Further, it'd have less impact because the scum would be expecting it. As it stands, I feel I'm pretty much blindsiding them with this, so we should get initiative back in several ways. And we DESPERATELY need initiative. Just for the sake of argument, what are your objections to Bard?
@capt. h: You're right, we should do that every game without the pretentiousness of a TOWN ALLIANCE VOTING BLOCK. That said, does it look like we're doing that? FUCK NO. So, since no one else seems interested in guiding us to a town win, I'll take the reins. And me taking the reins means I'm going to impose one of my scumhunting tools on everyone. I would hope that those I named will see the benefit of this technique.
@Zak: Since the scum have already recruited, how do you feel about the behavior of those I listed? Secondly, who do you propose as a not Chaore lynch?
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@Conqueror: I apologize for not being able to write up an adequate post at 3 in the morning, after losing previous post twice. I wasn't about to bring that up as frankly I can prove it as well as you can prove I am lying, but It's the basis of your case and I'm adressing it, seems. Oh, and how about Capt. H and Hourai, Hourai who did mostly the same thing with a vote on me when absolutely no one expressed interest in lynching me, and Capt. H who stuck his vote on Schezo and -was- there to decide not to be on the wagons? This is the exact same thing you are saying I am scum for, you have expressed no suspicions towards either of them, and infact both of them had their votes on people who were never actual wagons when they were voting. So this leaves the main decider being the Kiro wagon switch. So you've basically come out after a long line of people have come down on me for that, and are taking advantage of this along with my inactiveness to make it look like you have a legit case on me. Interesting.
Congrats on boiling my entire case down to the part I stated was a null tell. Misrep me more, kthanks.
You're right, Hourai is similar to you, but I liked his Day 2 content better than yours. :dwi:
Nice deflection though.
capt. h I am ignoring because he is getting himself modkilled.
As for UK, I don't like the implication of the players that you've chosen for this so-called "voting block" of yours. I came here to play a game, not a popularity contest. If this is how the rest of this game is going to go, then count me out.
Nice to see people are showing up just to comment on the voting block and say nothing else. Jeebus.
Oh, and I'm human.
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It's not a popularity contest. It's "these people are bleeding fucking town, so I trust them" thing. I still expect everyone else to contribute.
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Fuck this initiative argument. Maybe if you people would fucking post, this town would have some initiative. But nooooooo, you all have to lurk lurk lurk lurk.
Fucking.
@UK, that's not what you said to Dormio, is it? I also have another comment I want to make, but I'm not going to say it because it would make this thread all pissy. I'm going to go take a break from this thread for a while.
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On the outside, it looks like UK's proposing that four people agree they are all town, and work together to lynch a target they agree on. Rather than accuse eachother or try to discern whether the others are scum, they simply agree to take all words at face-value and vote collectively, so that Town can either make a counter-wagon or go with the rest of the group. It is likely that members of said bucket group would be influenced by the outside anyway, but they could argue among eachother if they trust people.
Sadly I don't trust Shadoweh and find no reason to be a member of the UK voting alliance.
I intend to vote Chaore to L-1 shortly. The day is miring, we're not getting anywhere and ragefests are being devolved. I want to see Shadoweh hang but if I can convince none of it then I am equally fine to see Chaore go.
Chaore, consider this my request for you to claim, because when Capt H is modkilled, that means L-1 is hammer.
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@HW: You're pretty much right. Doing it every game would be pretty terrible and encourage elitism. Further, it'd have less impact because the scum would be expecting it. As it stands, I feel I'm pretty much blindsiding them with this, so we should get initiative back in several ways. And we DESPERATELY need initiative. Just for the sake of argument, what are your objections to Bard?
"I have a negative gut read on him"
More specifically, the way he pushed the Shadoweh case during late D2, and the way he recently picked it up. I'm not sure what irked me about them in specific and was planning to figure out why the hell my gut is acting up after a re-read, but considering that my brain isn't working right now, I don't know. I'll try to get back to you on this. I also just... don't really understand why people are clearing him as town now. His posting was solid on D1 and I thought he was town then too, but afterwards I felt like his prominence kind of dissipated. This is going by memory. I think Hourai would maybe be a better choice? @_@ Although, I don't think you'd accept that coming from me since you said he had some weirdness going on with me (though I'm not too sure what that was referring to).
I think I may be biased about Bard since I'm fairly confident Shadoweh is town.
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Him putting Chaore at L-1 halfway into the day when some people (SUCH AS MYSELF, I SWEAR I'M GETTING TO IT asdf) haven't posted their full opinions yet kind of confirms my negative gut read.
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Part of "bleeding town" is making sense and generally having good reads. That said, yes, I'm biased towards the "better" players because I don't really want to make the block bigger than four. The risk of throwing a scum in there by accident naturally increases with whoever I add, so people I have as "probably town" need to be left out, particularly if their rhetoric (HEY ZAK I'M USING THE WORD RIGHT NOW) isn't that great.
My apologies if this irritates you. You and K4U would be my fifth if I wanted one, though rereading, so far I'm not getting anything conclusive either way so I'm kind of wondering if I was a bit hasty in my obvtown read. That said, I'm still reading. It's hard to pull things from K4U because of her unfortunate circumstances (I don't mean this in any critical way. I understand stuff happens)
@Bard: I suppose I can't push you, now can I. Admittedly, that reaction makes me want you MORE in the alliance...just I really, really, do not want Shadoweh lynched.
@Zak, Shadoweh: I don't like trying to do this with three, but it can still work. How do you feel?
@HW: I'm getting weird vibes from Hourai in my reread. Not necessary "SCUM FOREVER" reads, but bad enough so I'm not sure I'd want him as a fourth. As for Bard, I actually don't mind taking care of the claim threat early, partially because he's already half claimed, and partially because it denies Chaore scum the chance to confuse things right before deadline. I'm not sure how I'd feel about a lynch with so many hours left in the day. I'd normally be completely opposed but...uh...look where delaying has gotten us so far.
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Fuck you, Bardiche.
UK: I'll get back to your question in a few hours, I'm still reading. It's not progressed very far due to my affinity for procrastination, and the fact that the thread you posted was an inspiring goldmine of how to find scum. Regardless, I'd be willing to join if I find at least two of the others town in my reread.
Also, don't worry all you peeps who feel cheated at not being included. Just write a letter to your state representative (that is, the one who best represents your statement on the matters). I still intend to listen to people outside of the circle should we make one.
rhetoric
:getdown:
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Him putting Chaore at L-1 halfway into the day when some people (SUCH AS MYSELF, I SWEAR I'M GETTING TO IT asdf) haven't posted their full opinions yet kind of confirms my negative gut read.
It's precisely because people are sitting around twiddling their goddamn thumbs for nearly 24 hours if not more that I think we should get this fucking lynch going, because no one looks at anything else and the ones not on Chaore are content not saying much if anything about Chaore.
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oh boy a voting block on me that sounds like fun! That 's what I suggested yesterday anyways. I'm not violently opposed to this but I don't trust Bard FOR SOME REASON. I dislike how you still want to disregard both the lynches so far for not being readable just because they were two short from majority. I'm
Bard go away. It's great that you don't feel the need to address my questions and voted with that case from before. I don't think anyone would have accepted you not being here at the time since you were clearly here and rereading. You even agree with a Schezo case so what the hell Bard? You pointed out things you disliked about huh what and Kiro both. Do you still think huh what is scummy yes or no? I'd prefer not to even consider lynching until capt.h dies anyways for reasons that should be obvious if you've been paying attention. Can we quicklynch Dormio since he can't be bothered to make a not-town case today? I AM TOTALLY FEELING THE ANTI-TOWN VIBES and going back to sleep again because STOP CUTTING ME
ALSO IF YOU DIDN'T NOTICE I AM STILL HUMAN JEALOUSY
Cut by what the hell are you suggesting Bard, no, NO we are not having a hammer halfway through the day. Especially not after a kill that should in theory put us in Mylo if Kiro wasn't scum. It would clear up alot of this argument wouldn't it?
huh what that is not opinions please continue trying to have some thanks. DORMIO GET ON THIS TOO. You feel so god damn tag along today. Willing to lynch Schezo or huh what right now, increasingly wanting to lynch Bard because oh my god he sucks today, if we're not in MYLO happy to lynch Chaore. If we do drop to MYLO then fuck no.
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It's precisely because people are sitting around twiddling their goddamn thumbs for nearly 24 hours if not more that I think we should get this fucking lynch going, because no one looks at anything else and the ones not on Chaore are content not saying much if anything about Chaore.
There are only two groups of people who are content with not saying much of anything on Chaore
1. Scum
2. demotivated townies.
Do you want to encourage either of those groups?
Shadoweh: plz don be angwy :ohdear:
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##Vote Bardiche
You're doing this right after UK just proposed a new method of attack that could potentially give the town significantly more initiative. We have not yet fully discussed her proposition, and one person who was considered for a member of the townie block has not yet even responded. Additionally, if the townie block is created, then it would have a chance to approach rest of the D3 in a different manner and possibly even start making people look in directions other than Chaore. We're definitely not done with the day phase.
My immediate reaction is to think that you're scum trying to cut discussion short because this concept greatly benifits town. Ending the day early would give scum a chance to off a block member before the concept is fully discussed, too.
Cut by people. Eh. Shadoweh, I have an incomplete post but it was mostly just Kiro opinions and waffling and I was about to axe it forever and pretend it didn't exist. I could maybe post that before I actually do my re-read if it helps, but I doubt it. <_<
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Yes, Shadoweh, clearly I am putting in less effort today because I became so incredibly motivated by not getting a real lynch since the start of the game, more lurks than I can count on one hand AND people abusing the lynching mechanic to derail a bandwagon twenty minutes before deadline not because PX was strongly Scum or anything but BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO PRESERVE A WATCHER BEFORE ANYTHING, with the naive idea that scum would be TOTALLY COOL with Kiro surviving as a Town Watcher.
Oh okay, call me back when you're done discussing game mechanics, setups and strategies and are ready to hunt scums.
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People aren't going to even consider using the rest of the day to hunt scum if the rest of the day doesn't exist.
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@Shadoweh: I disregard the wagons as not readable not because they weren't majority lynches, but because the switches were mostly the same people trying to make sure a lynch happened. Preferably a majority one. It doesn't really have an intent either way, just a desire to make an decisive lynch.
You bring up hugely good points I didn't consider re: the fact we are told when it is MYLO. Though, why would it be MYLO with capt. h.'s modkill? We currently have 11 alive. capt. h. kill makes 10. Lynch makes 9. NK makes 8, and if there is an SK kill and no same targetting/scum killing, that would be 7. Which would still be 3:1:3, which technically isn't a losing situation (even though it practically is). But in that case, would we even get a mylo warning? So assuming no SK and no Kiro scum, we'll be in 3:5 tomorrow. Unless you have a reason to believe my numbers are wrong?
@HW: Hmm.
Also, with 11 alive, how does the capt. h. modkill make L-1 a lynch? Right now it's 11 alive, 6 to lynch. Capt. h. makes 10 alive, 6 to lynch?
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It's been over 24 hours since the Day began and people like Chaore have still not produced much in the way of "Who are scum". This active lurking does NOT help Town.
UK: dferp i Just listened to capt H. Clearly not a method up for repeat.
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That Chaore reread that I was meant to do yesterday before I became braindead. BECAUSE I'M A POTATO.
Fake Edit: Fuck you Shadoweh, words are hard, okay?
Stop posting everywhere I can see your posts in iso.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to maintain that I read him as town in D1&2, and I'm not confident enough in any telekinetic powers I may or may not have to determine if his alignment changed during N2.
#568: How do you know that Kiro was the watcher? I mean, it's not exactly hard to claim that someone was targetted one night as scum. If nobody claims, town will probably just assume scum targetted them. If somebody does claim, then that just validates stuff, as well as finding out that someone has a PR.
I'm just cycling thoughts through my head. I'm going to reread Chaore again until things make sense, and I'll just leave this here until then.
Speaking of which! Hurraaaaaaiiiiiiiii. I'm forgetting that you're playing, again. Come backkkkkkkkk.
Where's that awesome post with more on others you promised us in #five-six-fiveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
"He has not voiced suspicion outside of PX and Dormio. This is scummy because he's leaving himself to pursue anybody without precedent, and we have no idea what he's going to do."
Hey, hey, guess who that applies to? Only, with regards to Schezo and Chaore instead of PX and I.
So, like, that awesome post would be really nice to see sometime soon.
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In fact, I think I managed to make Kiro scum much more believable to myself there, somehow.
Anyway! Reading! I should be doing that!
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Also I feel better today playwise. I feel like it's hard to choose because EVERYONE IS SCUM. Also I do agree we should hammer earlier, like, eight hours earlier so the deadline is around nice playable 1am instead of ungodly morning. Now is not that time. I haven't seen alot of analyzing Chaore's posts from anyone voting him except Conqueror. I also dislike how little you all have to say about Schezo. I got him out here and posting a bunch more content, does it look like scum content or not? Seriously guys.
huh whatty, Kiro is dead, it's more important you let us know how you feel about the other living players right now.
UncertainKitten: If we're at 7-4 right now it will be MYLO with a town!capt.h death. If Kiro was not the scum recruiter I think it's possible there were three scum to start. It would have given town 4 mislynches originally and given reason for us to be this powerful.
Bard: Okay, so what do you think about Chaore's scum reads and what he thinks of Conqueror and Schezo then?
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Dormio lights on something I think some people are forgetting: KIRO NEVER FLIPPED AS EITHER TOWN OR WATCHER, SO HE ISN'T PROVEN TO BE EITHER OF THOSE. Any arguments regarding the lynching of Kiro are double-sided as you can't prove lynching PX was to save a Town Watcher or not. Devil's Proof.
Shadoweh asking me to pretend Kiro is Town and think from there is just as silly as asking her to pretend Kiro is Scum and think from there. Using the unflipped body in this manner is further reason I want her dead.
@Shadoweh: Complete and utter bogus, and Scum Opportunism, respectively. Schezo looks like the only possible counter-wagon to Chaore himself at this point, he'd be crazy not to support it. After waiting so long to produce, he could have easily shitted a case on anyone he thought would be an easy wagon.
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...hmm. That's a very scary damn thought, Shadoweh. I mean, I kind of gravitated towards two initial scum + recruit because recruit is basically as powerful as two kills. But, without the N1 kill, this becomes possibly balanced for 4:10. Would you assume then that the N2 vig is town? Because that still seems like an awful thing to use unless one were completely unaware of the janitor aspect.
The lack of claim at this point or even discussion of the merits of a claim makes me...nervous.
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The only reason I am withholding from voting him is because as scum he would probably self-hammer to deny discussion and Huh What is getting his panties in a knicker because he can't discusses the ~*Town Block*~ and needs MOAR TIME to form an opinion on Chaore. And that opinion of his could be useful, except it's looking too much like waffling and stalling right now.
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I'd also be at L-2, Actually. Zakeri just unvoted. Bardiche, before you go running your mouth about your intent to hammer me, I'd appreciate if you actually made sure you have the ability to. Also hi, glad to see you're all doing the 'completely convinced and everything he says is complete bogus' thing already.
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Well then. ##Unvote
##Vote: Chaore
I have Zakeri on ignore so I wouldn't know about his votes and unvotes without a votecount, go away.
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Well then. ##Unvote
##Vote: Chaore
I have Zakeri on ignore so I wouldn't know about his votes and unvotes without a votecount, go away.
That's a wonderful idea, Bardiche. Zakeri may be Zakeri but...wow. You're seriously ignoring a player in the game- Bardiche, Why the christ?
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I'm pretty sure I asked you to pretend Kiro was whatever you said he was earlier, which is scum, and connect the dots against me from your own point of view. You heavily hold my deadline activity against me, so yes I would like you to consider the situation from whichever theory makes sense to you, preferably both of them, and tell me how I'm scum then.
No, that's stupid. Have you been listening to people? I'd make a way better counterwagon then Schezo with the way you're all upset at me for shenanigans, pronounced by how you and Haha won't get your rage glasses off of me. You just said you can see Schezo as scum. Why do you refuse to address the case itself instead of looking at his arguments and refuting from there?
Kitten: Yes, I think the vig could possibly be town, I think we might even see Kiro's flip after the next lynch if I've been wandering over crumbs correctly, but that's just more speculation.
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Well then. ##Unvote
##Vote: Chaore
I have Zakeri on ignore so I wouldn't know about his votes and unvotes without a votecount, go away.
Well, this certain explains why you're refusing to answer any of my attempts to reason with you like you're a human being.
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That's a wonderful idea, Bardiche. Zakeri may be Zakeri but...wow. You're seriously ignoring a player in the game- Bardiche, Why the christ?
That has nothing to do whatsoever with the current affairs. You were asked to roleclaim.
I'd make a way better counterwagon then Schezo with the way you're all upset at me for shenanigans, pronounced by how you and Haha won't get your rage glasses off of me.
I voted you for things preceding the shenanigans. Here, I'll be quite honest: the actions at end of D2 aren't scummy by themselves. They don't serve as a major case on anyone. They were disagreeable for reasons already stated, but they cannot serve as the onus of someone's scumminess. Outside of Haha and I, no one has shown any interest in wanting to vote you. By stalling enough time at first, he could gauge what other cases exist, and where to place his suspicions from that; I theorise that Schezo is one such a case for him, even if it may be on a scumbuddy but the magical bus exists again from today onward.
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Could someone ask Bardiche what makes him think pushing for a Chaore lynch isn't something that would make the scum quicktopic throw another party with cake considering if it goes through and he's town, that town's game is basically pushed back another day and a half?
Also, Chaore, you never got around to answering this:
Chaore: Do you have any reads besides Conqueror? If you do, post them (or link if you've already made some.) Also, consider that right now, you have three votes on you, and everyone else only has a single vote. Would you switch to any of the other wagons for the posterity of the rest of the day not being a steamroll on you? If so, who would you vote, and why?
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I think you're forgetting I actually responded to your request about whether we're human or vampire. Can't do that without reading what you're writing, man, I just choose not to respond to everything everyone throws out there because it'd just sidetrack.
I honestly just didn't pay attention to unvotes because votecounts.
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This was the conclusion of my gut read. I skimmed some posts because I had fairly solid reads on the people making them
Townests:
Shadoweh
Bard
Zakeri
Dormio
Leaning Town:
capt. h
Hanged Hourai
Inconclusive:
Schezo
Getting bad vibes:
Conquerer/K4U
Scum forever:
Chaore
Huh What
Now then, HW might be able to make it into the bad vibes zone if he posts anything resembling reads rather than just talking about dead people, mafia theory, and softly supporting the leading wagon without placing a vote. If Bard is not going to accept my invitation, I think I will consider Dormio for the ~*~TOWN VOTING BLOCK~*~. I couldn't really pull a read off Schezo because he'd say something that felt good then he'd undercut it by saying something that was plain awful. So, I'll ask a question that he has thus far failed to answer.
Schezo: What the hell were you doing during the magical lyrical wagon hell at the end of Day 2? Shadoweh says you were there all night not posting. THIS IS NOT COOL!
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That has nothing to do whatsoever with the current affairs. You were asked to roleclaim.
Sure. Why the hell not. I'll give you a wonderful gift, Bard!
I claim scum. Fuck this game.
Good luck town, I -honestly- hope you win this one.
Go ahead and make a lynch.
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The swaying trees and the dancing reeds
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
Chaore (4) - UK, Hourai, Conqueror, Bardiche
Conqueror (1) - Chaore
huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Bardiche(1) - huhwhat
Not voting: Zakeri
Chaore is at L-2
11 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
3.25 hours before capt.h is modkilled
37.5 hours until the end of the day
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I was just about to make a post saying I thought Chaore was town and that cut me.
I claim braindead town. Fuck this game.
Good luck town, I -honestly- hope you win this one.
Go ahead and make a lynch.
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...is that a serious fucking claim? What the hell?
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Oh right. This would probably help wouldn't it.
##Vote: Chaore
You can't tell but I'm laughing hysterically.
@UK: Yep!
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(Also, yes, I know that was inconsistant with my earlier reads today. Said earlier reads were a gut reaction that I meant to get rid of when I actually made a post, but fuck everything.)
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somebody unvote chaore fuck
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somebody unvote chaore fuck
Yes! Everyone should clearly unvote me. it would be the greatest of times.
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OK. So, one, that's L-1.
Two, we're not quicklynching him. We have 36 free hours. What do?
@HW: Chaore just voted himself. He can't scum self hammer himself. Are you proposing that his scumbuddies will come in and vote him dead? Because I would personally LOVE that.
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Also, this means Bard was going to put somebody who later claimed scum to L-1. Which is... actually, I'm not sure what that is.
:colonveeplusalpha:
@UK: I was worried somebody would hammer him considering how eager SCUM BARD was earlier. Eh.
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@HuhWhat: I am simply frustrated with the way the last two lynches went, since we couldn't get a majority, and town is now finally close to a majority lynch but then a number of players aren't contributing to whether Chaore is a good lynch or not, or if someone else would be a good other lynch. Dragging the day out in wait of those who haven't said much if anything yet often results in disappointment. We have a wagon analysis for Lady Lambdadelta we can do, but bar me everyone has been agreed on to be Town or eliminated.
The second day wagon analysis falls short due to it being unexpected who flipped, and people hadn't been prepared to voice whether they would still support a PX lynch or not. Kiro died without flipping alignment.
Cut by ragequit. This game is five shades of what. Affinity, I'll assume responsibility for this entire mess.
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Hmm...on the one hand, I'd LIKE to think that's not a thing.
On the other hand, TOWNIES ARE SILLY!
/me sighs
##Unvote
I'm revoting in 24 hours. Got it?
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@HW: I wouldn't assume he's being honest.
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Sect, you've changed! What have you done with your hair?! Do you want me to superbus you for townie cred again? I don't think it'll work as well for us as it did last game! Dormio took too long to try and bus me!
I don't even know what to say.
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I'm hardly Ragequitting Bardiche. I am simply claiming scum!
It's hardly your fault, so please don't feel bad about it. I simply felt this was a better method of strategy than anything else.
@Shadoweh: Sorry. I'm not cherry flavored.
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@Bard: What is Chaore if he's not scum, then? Do you think we have DAY 3 JESTER who somehow targeted UK on N1?
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@Bard: Last time I thought they weren't honest they totally were. You don't suffer claimed scum to live. That said, I don't want to see DERP DERP quickhammers so I'm unvoting for now.
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@Bard: What is Chaore if he's not scum, then? Do you think we have DAY 3 JESTER who somehow targeted UK on N1?
No, I think we have a ragequitter. Granted last time I thought we had someone ragequit by fakeclaiming scum, they were actually scum.
@Bard: Last time I thought they weren't honest they totally were. You don't suffer claimed scum to live. That said, I don't want to see DERP DERP quickhammers so I'm unvoting for now.
But it'd solve so much. :(
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I'd rather not have a quicklynch. I want us to decide how this town voting block thing will go before we start getting picked off. Or if the voting block will even be a thing.
Further, seeing our status after capt. h.'s mod kill would be worth a lot of information.
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I'm hardly Ragequitting Bardiche. I am simply claiming scum!
It's hardly your fault, so please don't feel bad about it. I simply felt this was a better method of strategy than anything else.
That's not what it looks like from my vantagepoint. If you are being serious then you will have to tell me what strategic value there is in claiming scum.
Also I said roleclaim, not alignment claim. :toot:
I will still assume any responsibility for rages during this game because there wasn't nearly as much rage in the game I didn't play in. Correlation? I think so.
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@Chaore: What did you do to UK on Night 1?
@Bardiche: Chaore's scumclaim actually fucks things up for us a lot, because:
- We don't know if he was the recruited scum or original scum, so we can't utilize his fakeflip for the rest of the day
- If we lynch him, we won't be able to use MYLO/LYLO indicators to figure out the scumcount tomorrow
- Connections to That Fucking Kiro Flip
Augh, I just don't know anymore. <_<
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Chaore, Are you a vampire? I notice that everyone who's posted since I asked has claimed Human, so I don't think anyone is being honest with me.
I also notice that PX flipped as a town Vampire (And that he didn't flip as a vanilla townie, but rather that his role was covered up somehow, derp me) So I guess scum have decided to lie about it.
In fact, a full roleclaim would help, but if you insist on being unhelpful, that would have to do.
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@Bardiche: I know! Scum is a role, you know, a role in the grand stage of life!
Want me to still Roleclaim or not? I assume Affinity will give you my role information on flip, but we've never had a scum flip. But I'll totally consider it.
I may be planning to kill you all posthumously, but I do believe in being courteous and polite.
@Zakeri: Nope! Totally human, I don't tend to lie- You were asking an odd question and since the beginning of the game I figured there might be a reason for Humans and Vampires to exist. I figured you may have a way to tell if I was lying, so I didn't lie. No need to.
@Huhwhat: Ooo. Loaded question! I love these. Give me a moment to figure out how to be most annoyingly truthful and still not help you all at all.
I am still trying to win, you know. Jeez!
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Stuff I noticed from scanning the thread with CTRL+F Chaore:
- I would infer that Dormio is Not Original Scum if Chaore is Original Scum. That doesn't clear him entirely, but it means cases that involve Dormio's pre-D3 play are most likely null.
- Schezo's only opinion on Chaore is that "Chaore is just kinda there". <_< Blargh, I don't like Schezo from what I've read of him.
- Chaore's "I do not believe UK is scum" after he targeted her on N1 looks maybe possibly like he was setting up a pre-recruitment Cop claim? Possibly? That'd be weird, though.
Um...actually, I don't want to comment on the Chaore case. I have thoughts and I'm not sure how I feel about them. Expect me to explain this in more detail day three.
So hey, it's D3. Did you explain this yet?
Cut by Chaore claiming reVelske.
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Cut by Chaore claiming reVelske.
reVelske was town and never lied. I'm scum and I don't lie. There's a difference! : D
Well that and I'm still probably a better player than most of you here. And I'm saying this while I'm claiming scum.
God damn, MOTKTown. God damn.
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Stop making fun of me for listening to you. -.-
So how do people feel about Hourai at this point? He was pushing Schezo and Chaore since Day 1 with no exceptions. Do you think he would actually be ballsy enough to push his scum buddies?
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Just because you're scum doesn't mean you have to be an asshole.
I want to know what was up with UK withholding her comments on the Chaore case, unless she was just referring to her gut read.
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Stop making fun of me for listening to you. -.-
So how do people feel about Hourai at this point? He was pushing Schezo and Chaore since Day 1 with no exceptions. Do you think he would actually be ballsy enough to push his scum buddies?
You're proposing a 4-scum setup with alignment changing?
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Cut by Shadoweh, didn't respond in my post because MY INTERNET CONNECTION KEEPS FUCKING UP EVERY FIVE SECONDS WHAT THE HELL.
I'm not too sure about Hourai. I had him down as obvrecruitmentbait earlier on, but then I found his play today to be reasonable enough that I didn't really consider him Recruited Scum (otherwise I wouldn't have suggested him as part of the Town Block earlier, obviously).
One thing I noticed about Hourai is that the way his top scum pick switched from Schezo to Chaore looks fluent enough that I don't particularly believe his original secondary suspicion on Chaore was scum distancing. Also, I'm not particularly sure I buy into the 4 scum alive theory just yet, so Hourai/Schezo/Chaore + one recruited player seems a little ridiculous to me.
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Just because you're scum doesn't mean you have to be an asshole.
Okay yeah that was a bit too much. Sorry.
@Shadoweh: But Shadoweh, I'm not making fun of you for listening to me! D: Just because I'm scum doesn't mean we have to be enemies!
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I'm pretty sure Chaore is scum. In that I'm pretty sure he wouldn't claim scum as town.
I claim Eirin, vanilla townie.
Chaore, why did you shove your vote off Kiro? And also, what exactly did you do to UK?
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Why would you be asking claimed scum to tell you what he did?! Didn't the :toot: set you off that I was joking?!
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Chaore, why did you shove your vote off Kiro? And also, what exactly did you do to UK?
You know I'm pretty sure I'm still trying to win even though I've claimed scum. I'm not quite sure why you're all thinking I'm going to be telling you my whole modus of operandi.
In fact, I'm pretty certain you already know the first answer. As for UK, I planted a bomb on her.
She's going to die tonight. It's going to be glorious. I don't think there's any harm in telling you that.
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Hey Chaore, who are you scumbuddies and what are their roles?
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@HW: Yes, I did. That was about when I was having horrible gut vibes on Chaore being scum. But I didn't feel like derailing the end of day wagons to cause, oh hey, EXACTLY WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED ANYWAY. Should have in retrospect. But yes, that was my feeling on Chaore. Scum.
@Chaore: Are you fucking serious?
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So will we suffer him taunting us or will we just lynch his bum already once capt h flips? :V We cannot be sure he's scum until he flips.
BET YOU WISH YOU'D GOTTEN YOUR CHAORE OPINIONS IN NOW, HUH WHAT. :|
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BET YOU WISH YOU'D GOTTEN YOUR CHAORE OPINIONS IN NOW, HUH WHAT. :|
Not really. <_< I thought he was town after re-reading the end of D2, the less said about this the better.
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Incidentally HW is reaffirming my scum reads by continuing to use distractions to not post any other reads outside the obv Chaore scum.
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Well, I believe Chaore's Claim of being Human, considering his reasoning.
I also think Shadoweh is right about Schezo being scum. Schezo's posting in infrequent enough that no matter who he makes a case on, and who he votes for, he'll still have technically valid cases, but nothing to actually push the cases forward as a mainstay. He's been voting HW, who was second in line for lynch both day one and day two, and I think it's just an excuse to skirt by unnoticed, since even if HW is killed and flipped town, he'd technically only have a single mark against him. Scum don't need to change their opinions often to seem town. If Chaore's not the vampire scum, then I think Schezo is.
##Royal Flare: Schezo
Also, I'm ready to Lynch Chaore and reduce the number of scum to just the recruit.
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BTW, I am claiming Patchouli Knowledge, and my vig is a Giant ball of Sun that either vaporizes a vampire or roleblocks a human.
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Hey Chaore, who are you scumbuddies and what are their roles?
My Scumbuddies are Neetz, Arashi, and Carthrat. Carth is a godfather and... Fuck, Hold on, I can't properly make this joke quite yet. I don't think I even got the team exactly right.
@UK: Yep! You're going to die tonight, We'll have LOTS more fun in the graveyard topic! It's why the voting block thing was so funny. You won't live to carry it out.
@ZakeriCut: Oh well what do you know. Thanks for shooting, I was wondering when you were going to do that.
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link=topic=9878.msg664565#msg664565 date=1308965444]
Why would you be asking claimed scum to tell you what he did?! Didn't the :toot: set you off that I was joking?!
[/quote]
I often ask things because I don't see any harm in asking them, not because I expect to get an honest answer. Why wouldn't you ask a claimed scum everything he's willing to answer, expecially if he's taking questions? Even the lies are interesting.
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Uh let me check what I was suggesting Bard. Yes I was suggesting three original scum with one recruit. Did I miscount there? Oh, you're talking about Kiro. Hence why I want to see if we smack into MYLO. Here's the thing, thinking about it a scum Chaore doesn't prove a scum Kiro any more then we can prove Kiro's claim. It makes the possibility more likely, but if Chaore flips something other then Vanilla he might have actually been seen by Kiro. Sigh, but you're right that it's more conspiracy theory then anything. Chaore is cutting me with implying Kiro is scum but I'm going to post this anyways because lying scum can lie.
Also if UK dies tonight I will concede that there is only two original scum because wow.
Cut by a blazing ball of fire uhm holy crap I hope I'm right?
STOP CUTTING ME WITH SHOCKING REVELATIONS
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Incidentally HW is reaffirming my scum reads by continuing to use distractions to not post any other reads outside the obv Chaore scum.
I'm not taking the game very seriously at this point because my brain is full of fuck and I'm pretty much going to be scum's #1 mislynch target on D4. I don't have anything to say that hasn't been said, other than the Bard case which nobody seems to really agree with me on. Zero motivation, basically.
Serious reads summary: I think Bard is scum, most likely recruit!scum. I think Schezo is scum for tunneling on me while maintaining a low presence by just kind of cheering on everything else to the side. More on both of these soon.
Cut: Okay, so Schezo just died. <_< Yeah, um.
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Unless Schezo's not a Vampire.
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...Oh wait shit, I meant to draw that. In hindsight, I should've claimed vampire.
Whoops! Can I get town MVP for this, because god damn this was meant to work out better than it is.
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I'm pretty certain you're right Shadoweh. Scum's MO would be to act as Town as possible, while preventing anything that would make people look directly towards them. I can easily see Scum Schezo hanging around all day, watching the thread, and letting the lynch slide through on anyone, while Town Schezo would at least be acting like he's trying to get someone lynched by trying to talk people into lynching his choices rather than just justifying his vote and dropping out completely.
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Oh? How do you know Schezo is dead, HW? Zak claimed that only vampires got vigged. Very interesting that you would instantly assume Schezo is a vampire.
At this point I guess I should just wait for results. AT LEAST I MIGHT NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SCHEZO BEING INCONCLUSIVE ANYMORE!
Chaore cut: So, uh, you're claiming Schezo is your vampire buddy now?
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ACK!
I get back from more being sick to claimed scum and getting vigged. Fantastic.
Schezo: What the hell were you doing during the magical lyrical wagon hell at the end of Day 2? Shadoweh says you were there all night not posting. THIS IS NOT COOL!
I've already answered this. No, I wasn't here all night so yeah take that liar with you.
Well, I've already told you everything else I've wanted to say about this game so I strongly suggest you go back and look and huh what and Shadoweh because I truly and honestly think they are scum and I want to follow through with what I think are good cases on them.
I claim Yukari Yakumo, and I have the silly ability to fuck with the border of heads and tails and rig the cointoss at the end of the day if I'm a tied wagon to where I win.
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Nope. I've got no idea what that ball of fire is about to do, actually.
All I know is I wanted to draw Zakeri's species-based thing, that's why I claimed.
In hindsight, saying vampire might've been smarter.
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He's trolling. This is why I am not even bothering to listen to him anymore. Anything he does now will be to mess with town anyway, best you can do is ignore it until his tantrum blows over.
So you claim Vampire, Schezo.
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Oh yeah I should mention I'm a vampire in my role so Jesus fucking to that.
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Oh? How do you know Schezo is dead, HW? Zak claimed that only vampires got vigged. Very interesting that you would instantly assume Schezo is a vampire.
I parsed his explanation post wrong. <_< Ugh. At this point I just want to ragequit because apparently everything I do makes me scum and it's incredibly irritating.
Schezo: Are you considered a Vampire? Last I checked, Yukari is neither vampire nor human. I think you're fakeclaiming.
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cut a million times fuck this game
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Oh well. Bye Schezo! I'll see you in the QT later!
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Huh What - why would a dead person fake claim?
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I mean, the vampire thing is going to be obvious really, really soon.
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capt. h: Remember what happened to Schezo when he got vigged last game? Yeah... <_<
Also, fuck the RNG. Two people claim my favorites Touhous back to back and I'm stuck with the vanilla PC98 person I barely even know.
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So you're claiming vampire now, Schezo? Despite being Yukari Yakumo? Because you won't die if you're not a vampire.
@Shadoweh: What made you think Schezo was here all night?
You are fucking claiming vampire?
Wellp, there we go people.
SchezoxChaore OTP. Who'd you recruit, Chaore? Schezo?
@capt. h: In case Zak is bluffing as Bard proposes.
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I'm not proposing Zak's bluffing.
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Yes I'm a vampire somehow like the way PX was bastardized to how he flipped vampire also. Fucking fantastic isn't it?
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I misread, my apologies. You were saying Chaore was trolling. I think between Schezo's claim and Chaore's post, both of them done fucked up.
@Schezo: So you're proposing TWO roles that aren't usually vampires being vampires? I mean, Sakuya kind of makes sense. Yukari is out of fucking nowhere.
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Hey, to be fair I hate Schezo with the fury of a million of Patchy's suns. You can say we're both scum, but please don't pair us up. >:
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If you're town, Schezo, fullclaim your targets and role right now.
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If you're town, Schezo, fullclaim your targets and role right now.
Reading words how do I do it. :toot:
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Screw this game I'm going to sleep, I can't even recall Schezo already claimed.
Everyone's scum in this game.
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Exactly. She's out of fucking right field. Don't ask me why, she's motherfucking Yukari.
The only reason I can offer to explain this is if Chaore really is a human I'm just here to counterbalance vampire targeting roles. (he's flipping scum, you know)
Umm, I don't have targets I told you that I use the border of heads and tails to make it so I always win the cointoss at the end of the day if I'm tied.
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But you're so cute together! Especially you with Schezo's VN form =D
@Bard:I claim Yukari Yakumo, and I have the silly ability to fuck with the border of heads and tails and rig the cointoss at the end of the day if I'm a tied wagon to where I win.
He did. That doesn't look like it targets people.
@Schezo: When PX was already a vampire?
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Wait, Bard, the mod kill hasn't happened yet.
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Nice to see that Schezo suddenly shows up to add stuff now that I've made it apparent I don't need a Majority to get a lynch in on him.
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UK: I'm a bad person and watch people's active times when I iso them. I couldn't really not notice how it said here right at this moment and it kept updating like he was refreshing constantly.
Why wouldn't Yukari be a vampire? My character is a Youkai and she's human, and uh, have you watched Border of Extascy? I mean seriously he's going to be dead, I don't think he's going to claim ability not to die when he's killed.
Schezo, if you're town can you please not let your last words be to kill me, again? I was hoping you'd explain why huh what and I were scum together but whatever.
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Zakeri: Are you claiming that was a gambit? @_@
- Not all scum are necessarily vampires and not all townies are necessarily humans. Also, since this is very loosely-based on the Touhou Universe, any conceptions you might have on who is scum and not are strongly discouraged.
I... think this may possibly resolve why Yukari and Sakuya are vampires. Maybe.
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Edit: Though, now that you're here, I'd like you to expand on your reads of HW and Shadoweh, before affinity and crew get here.
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One moment please.
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Game continues. Topic lock was due to mod miscommunication.
The swaying trees and the dancing reeds
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
Chaore (5) - UK, Hourai, Conqueror, Bardiche, Chaore
huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Bardiche(1) - huhwhat
Not voting: Zakeri
Chaore is at L-1
11 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
3.25 hours before capt.h is modkilled
37.5 hours until the end of the day
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So Affinity clarified on IRC nothing actually happened. However, Chaore pretty much good as claimed Schezo as a scumbuddy. And Schezo corrobated this. Now we have the wonderful choice of which obvscum we lynch first.
Chaore honestly irritates me more with his LA DI DA CLAIMING SCUM BECAUSE IT'S COOL NOW thing.
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I am officially victorious then.
Let me know if there's anything you want to seriously ask me. Otherwise, I'll take my Pyrrhic victory.
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Well this was what I was going to post before the topic locked.
Ok, I came home a little while ago and I find a bunch of shocking, game-changing revelations sitting around. I'm here and I'm going to be attempting to read all this stuff again.
>.< Y u post so fasts?
I'm almost caught up, so just give me a little more time to finish reading.
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Chaore needs to die first, because he's the confirmed power role.
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So I haven't gone to bed.
Zakeri explain.
What is going in this thread.
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Edible, you're such a jerk. :(
Yeah I'm going to continue on with that going to get more reads on huh what and Shadoweh but I was thinking what would be the point if the topic got locked and I couldn't post anyway and die but we're back, so let me get that for you.
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I walk away from UK's SUPER VOTING BLOCK idea, and then what the fuck is this.
[22:26:49] <Kitten4u> Chaore and Schezo are obviously scum
[22:28:33] <Kitten4u> That makes HW and Hourai probably town. Zak, UK and Shadoweh are probably town too
[22:29:01] <Kitten4u> Bard looks scummy and Dormio looks scummy
I'll elaborate on it later, I really don't feel like dealing with this right now.
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FUCK THIS.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Chaore
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I'd at least like elaboration on the Dormio suspicion. Chaore tunneled him on all D1-D2. Unless K4U is proposing that Dormio was the recruition targe-FUCK
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Oh my fucking god.
##Unvote
if it still works
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Wait. didn't UK unvote, Affinity? I think your votecount is wrong.
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[22:33:15] <Kitten4u> Oh, I forgot about Chaore's tunneling
[22:33:20] <Kitten4u> nvm on Dormio then
[22:33:29] <Kitten4u> See if you can get that in before the mods close the topic
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... Yes she did, actually. :>
Well, Schezo is now even more confirmed scum. Hooray?
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Fortunately I unvoted. He should still be at L-1.
@HW: seems that way ^-^.
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Wow did that suddenly become relevant, she did too.
Uhm so I was going to say Schezo hadn't actually claimed scum but uh
I think he claimed scum
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...why would you suddenly decide he HADN'T claimed scum when, uh, yanno, you've been calling him scum all day?
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Yes it is. Chaore is at L-2 now. *facepalms*
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Corrected Votecount
Shadoweh (1) - Dormio
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh, capt.h,
Chaore (4) - Hourai, Bardiche, Chaore, Schezo
huhwhat (1) - Schezo
Bardiche(1) - huhwhat
Not voting: Zakeri
Chaore is at L-2
11 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
1.25 hours before capt.h is modkilled
36 hours until the end of the day
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a;slkdfjqpoweihgf
This game this game this game
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Oh for fuck's sake. I want to die already. ;.;
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Nothing happened.
The Vig i used was fake.
that's all there is to it.
I used it with the intention of getting Chaore to stupidly claim something. Since, Chaore has been spending the past hour or so being stupid and as a result making stupid claims while trying to play it off as ~The best scummy ever~. Protip: Good Mafiosi don't claim Scum when caught, especially after someone jumps off their wagon.
That said, I think I'm going to wait until RL tomorrow to analyze what Schezo's reaction means, since I'm tired and I can feel my mind slipping away into the Nether-realms. Please don't lynch too quickly.
Choo-Choo, Schezo is scum
Oh, wait nevermind then.
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I meant that he had not -actually- claimed scum, as opposed to Chaore who claimed scum. That fake claim is alot cooler then reviver doctor governor don't you think?
So I suggest someone else unvote before someone thinks Chaore and Schezo need more hammers. I still want to see what happens when capt.h dies. Since the scum seem to be trying to stop us it becomes more relevant to my interests.
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I already unvoted, but Affinity decided not to count it for some reason so fuck this game.
Kitten can do my rereading until I come back; I'll just post her comments.
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EBWOP: Nevermind he counted it now haha.
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:yukkuri:
So yeah I finished reread to find this little gem at the end. :toot:
I don't have much more to really add I guess. Any questions for me?
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Everyone calls me confirmed scum
The claimed scum calls me his partner.
he's at L-1... I know.
GOD
MOTHER
FUCKING
DAMMIT
-
:toot:
... Yeah.
:toot:
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HEY GUYS IT'S MY BIRTHDAY TODAY LET'S HAVE A PARTY :toot:
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If anybody has a real vig, that would be useful about now.
Also, PoE should narrow the final scum down to one of Conqueror4u and Bardiche, barring some hardcore bussing going on, but I can't help but think that there's room for this to fail due to the recruiting mechanics. Comments on this would be appreciated. I still think Bard is scum regardless and intend to ISO him right now.
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HEY GUYS IT'S MY BIRTHDAY TODAY LET'S HAVE A PARTY :toot:
:toot: :toot: :toot:
:ohdear:
:V
Schezo are you claiming Town.
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If anybody has a real vig, that would be useful about now.
That'd be great. You guys make terrible company and I want out of here.
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So Schezo, what's your town to scum ratio at now, 2 : 7 or something? Maybe next game you'll find a happy medium in third party.
Hourai: Well yeah, who else do you think is scum now? Since we're uh, probably gonna have time to talk about it.
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So uh, two hours ago it was 3.25 hours to capt h modkill, now it's still 3.25 hours? Waitwut?
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HEY BARD
AM I STILL SCUM
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Yes.
Chaore and Schezo sacrificed themselves to make your town cred shoot skyhigh into the sky.
Please die.
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...are you serious Bard? Like, for real serious about that?
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OKAY JUST CHECKING.
I WANTED TO GO TO SLEEP FOUR HOURS AGO WHY DO YOU PEOPLE INSIST ON DOING THIS TO ME?!?!
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I take a break. To play one game of DotS. ONE.
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/th_39678949.png) (http://s597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/?action=view¤t=39678949.png)
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...are you serious Bard? Like, for real serious about that?
What do you think.
Also, I propose we first lynch Schezo and Chaore before we make magical conjecture on the last scum our PRIORITY for which to drag the day out for, because until they flip, I'm not believing anything I hear. ┐(￣3￣)┌
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HINT: I wasn't serious. Christ.
Goodnight.
-
Who's scum now?
Well, unless I missed something big, I feel the last, or next-to-last scum, in some opinions, is the recruit. I frankly believe in 3 total. The scum is likely someone that neither Schezo nor Chaore accused of being scum D1 and 2, as that would later make them contradict themselves and just not be what they would've done.
HW and Dormio get a pass from me now until I do a proper reread. But yeah, I wanna reread what they said about people before choosing the last one, as that will be somewhat harder to catch.
-
Hmm, what was it capt. h. said? Any of us could die tonight. Why would we NOT want to get our thoughts out there regarding who is scum in light of the claims? That said I'm not entirely sure myself and I'm kind of tired of reading tonight.
Bard: I didn't think you were but it's kind of hard to tell. NOW how do you feel about a Shadoweh/UK/Zak/Bard voting block?
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Something interesting I noticed.
Chaore's case on Conqueror feels... really weak to me, and partially just an attempt to get people off his back. Do you people think this looks more like scum pushing bad cases, or distancing since Chaore was the most likely lynch today?
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"you people" being the voting block people.
-
What, you don't care what I have to say?! I see how you fucking are.
-
I'm seriously not keen on being treated as superior this game considering how close I feel I've been to being mislynched since Day 2 started. I think Chaore's attacks on Schezo while keeping his vote on Conqueror are worse and kind of denote a town Conqy (I know, it's hard to remember but he wasn't actually voting for Schezo). I'm not entirely sure how this distancing thing is suposed to work. I sorry we fought, hugs? :<
Of course I care what you have to say Schezo. <^_^> Be townie and make cases, it's good practice for when you actually roll town.
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[23:10:45] <Kitten4u> I know he's not talking to us, but I would like to say something to HW anyway
[23:11:15] <Kitten4u> It's pretty clear that Chaore was cheerleading a potential scum wagon while keeping his vote on us
[23:11:24] <Kitten4u> As of his first post on D3 his case didn't even exist
[23:12:52] <Kitten4u> Schezo had garnered a couple of votes, so Chaore was keeping his vote on a townie while giving himself enough room to move to Schezo
Cut by Shadoweh
-
This is actually really awkward, catching scum wise. How are we suposed to find the recruited scum when we didn't give them time to interact with the current ones very well?
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You're not.
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This is actually really awkward, catching scum wise. How are we suposed to find the recruited scum when we didn't give them time to interact with the current ones very well?
Keine.
:V
-
(serious answer: scum is going to be eliminating one of us every night, which is a boon, and process of elimination kills off a lot of suspects as well, though obviously it will need to be twisted so we don't discount people too much. we do have one day in which lots of people interacted with chaore to go off of, so as far as i'm concerned it's not impossible at all. dumb luck is also helpful.)
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<WMShadoweh> @dice 1d11
<@Keine-tan> WMShadoweh: 11
*counts down 11 player slots to K4U/Conqueror*
GODDAMNIT KEINE WHAT DID I JUST SAY?!
Don't call the scum NK a boon. :< I know what you mean, but it'll eliminate our process of elimination more then our suspects.
-
Also, Chaore, you jerk, you weren't making a post for me yesterday either were you. >:<
-
Wait a minute.
...
Is there anything clearing Dormio today? Like, I know there's no way he was Original Scum, but I see nothing that implies he wasn't the recruitment target. I had somehow mentally discounted Dormio earlier, so @_@
I need to know this in case my brain went blank, because I think I just realized something.
-
Also, Chaore, you jerk, you weren't making a post for me yesterday either were you. >:<
I don't know, was I? Ask me later.
-
Okay, a quick re-read says "apparently not". Here's a serious OPINIONS post for once. First one of the phase, I'm really fucking proud of myself.
The "cheerleading against Schezo" theory seems fair enough, but it's also possible that Chaore is Serela/Dormio-tier insane and tried to distance from both his buddies. I wouldn't count Conq4u out completely, though I personally do not consider them a major priority.
##Unvote
##Vote Dormio
The way he suddenly dropped his D2 UK case that he had tunneled so much on to instead tunnel on Shadoweh during D3 looks like a notable shift in opinions to me. Specifically, it seems like an opinion shift that would be reasonable for newly recruited scum to make, because Shadoweh actually had a few people looking in her direction (Bard), while UK did not. The UK case would be of little use for scum because Dormio was failing to actually convince anybody with it.
Meanwhile, Dormio ignored Chaore and Schezo completely despite suspicion against them rising earlier in the day, which is odd considering how polarizing of a target Chaore was. In exchange, Chaore dropped the Dormio case which he had been tunneling on so much D1-D2 completely. Possibly the weirdest opinion shift I've seen, because he didn't even vote on it at the start of the day when you would expect his opinions to carry over. Perhaps this was because Dormio was suddenly not the townie mislynch he previously had been?
Dormio actually makes sense as a recruitment target, too, because people were slowly beginning to clear him as That's Our Durrrmio at the end of D2. With several wagons rising in place of Dormio's and nobody really suspicious of him, it was likely he would not be a major target again for a long time unless he fucked up.
There's still that Bard case I was in the middle of writing up, but this sticks out to me a lot more now that I've noticed it. I do intend to finish my Bard case, but would like opinions on this first.
-
Hummm...HW brings up a good point. I wasn't looking for recruits earlier...when I'm not Higuing it up I'll take a look.
-
capt.h/Dorian, Eirin Yagakoro, Vanilla Town couldn't take it any more and tried to run away from her responsibilities! However, she was found dead and killed by some higher power (modkilled due to long-term V/LA without valid replacement) not far from the Village. She was human.
Town is now in MyLO. Votecounts are now reset. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
-
Hey look guys. We're in MYLO.
THERE ARE FOUR SCUM.
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[23:50:24] <Kitten4u> I had given a tentative clear to Dormio once it was brought up that Chaore was tunneling on him on D1 and D2, but I had forgotten that he completely ditched the case for no apparent reason
[23:50:52] <Kitten4u> Hm...
[23:51:18] <Kitten4u> I'm going to have to think about how effective distancing/bussing a potential recruit target would be
[23:51:52] <Kitten4u> Oh, and an Affinity ninja
[23:52:02] <Kitten4u> I guess this means Kiro was town. Bleh
[23:53:25] <Conq> (Sorry for being incredibly lazy right now, but it's my birthday and I intend to take it easy for once.)
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Does anyone disagree with the statement, "Schezo is town"? If so speak your mind now.
If you don't, you should see my recommended solution, to lynch Shadoweh.
##Unvote:
##Vote: Shadoweh
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Um...you just tried to quickhammer scum. You've claimed scum about three different ways now. I think everyone with 2 brain cells to rub together disagrees with the statement Schezo is town. Not sure what to make of the MYLO situation. In fact, I probably shouldn't be posting if I'm not doing my SERIOUS ANALYSIS yet.
-
Also capt.h is amusingly able to claim perfectly in the form of song. I'm terribly jealous of him.
This means Kiro was a Town Watcher. I have to throw serious wtf at Bardiche now who A) Decided Kiro couldn't possibly be a Town Watcher B) Tried to get a case going on me for pulling the wagon off the Town Watcher and C) wanted us to hammer the Chaore-scum before capt.h replaced out. We wouldn't have known we were in MYLO till waaaaay later.
If not for how he just practically threw Schezo under the bus I would be staring holes in Zak too, but.. I don't know. We don't have a single lynch to spare anymore, and we've lost three mega town roles.
Cut: I disagree. :<
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The votecount reset? I would rest easier if I knew there were more votes on him.
##Vote: Chaore
4 scum? >.<
And the stuff brought up on Dormio is interesting. I was going off his initial stuff, but a recruitment is indeed a possibility. There were a good amount of derp clears. He also tunneled on Shadoweh today, with pretty much no mention of Schezo and Chaore at all.
Bringing the recruitment into the equation makes me think of him in a much different light now.
Also, Schezo, u scum.
-
Votecount reset D:?
##Vote Chaore
L-4
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Deaths do tend to do that. Don't worry guys, I got this one covered.
##VOTE SCHEZO!
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Why Schezo over the claimed power role, Shadoweh?
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Warning - while you were typing 22 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
My motivation died completely sometime yesterday.
Anyway, since he claimed scum.
##Vote Chaore
capt. h's flip further proves that everything I knew was wrong.
Me being the recruit? nope.avi
My role hasn't changed, I'm still a human etc. etc.
Can someone explain to me why Schezo is now scum? I can't read the last couple of pages.
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Also, yay!
Hourai posted!
Hourai finished his read of the game!
Hourai posted his amazing cases where he would mention people outside of Chaore and Schezo!
... Wait...
-
Er, amazing post, not cases.
Since he never promised cases.
Though he should be giving us cases anyway.
Because I'm a potato.
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Chaore said something to the effect of implicating Schezo as his buddy after Zak fakevigged him. Schezo then claimed Yukari Yakumo and vampire. Then, after the fakevig was revealed, he tried to quickhammer Chaore, but my unvote made it so he only put Chaore at L-1. It was a clear scum move, on top of everything else.
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Are you pushing me as scum, or are you talking for the sake of talking?
Seeing as how both my suspects have pretty much confirmed as scum, I'm going to take a breather and reread and make new cases tomorrow. :dealwithit:
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Because I wouldn't want Schezo to get lonely, UK. >:D
Okay, let me explain why I think Hourai should do a whole bunch of talking right now. Hourai kept his attention solely on Schezo and Chaore, from the start, before anyone knew Schezo was a thing that existed. So either Hourai is the greatest mafia player of this game and we should sheep to him like he is Keine, or Hourai had a really easy way of knowing who the scum were. So, yeah, I'd like to see something out of you besides bbl please.
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Other question, when do we want to hammer? We can actually change this god forsaken deadline and make it happen at not 10am! I'm cool with uhm, any time that is not 10am. Around no-o-clock was my favorite deadline.
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What Shadoweh said.
Also, :wikipedia: is good, and stuff like that.
Because words draw out the scum and whatnot.
Also, just because it's rather apparent that Chaore and Schezo are going to be D3&4 doesn't mean that we should just sit around during that time.
Also, I like 30 minutes before the current deadline. 12AM yay.
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Wait, when did the deadline change to 1AM?
Stupid dealine being pushed back for whatever reason.
I change my vote on hammer to 1 hour beforehand. :V
Anyway, making another post.
Or at least trying to.
-
Hourai is the greatest mafia player of this game and we should sheep to him like he is Keine
I will hold you to this forever. Forever. FOREVER. I am screenshotting that part of that post to save forever. Done. I .png'd that sucker.
I wanna go to sleeeeeeeeep. I'm just gonna post this then nighty-night.
Don't really suspect
Me
Zak
HW
Conq
People I will look over later/some suspicions (not in any order because I'm too tired to prioritize)
Bard
Shadoweh
UK
Dormio
Scum
Chaore
Schezo
Gonna get this nighty bedtime post out th-zzz...
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@HH: So, uh, yeah. The take it easy and coast along to victory thing is bad because it doesn't find the scumssssssss.
And, no. You will never be a great a player as Keine.
Keine is, has been, and will continue to be the greatest mafia player. Ever.
Houraiiiiii, why do you give those fourthree (apparently, in my eyes, "me" is a separate player now) clears? Especially on the day after the recruit has gone offfffff?
If I say I believe you to be scum, because of how open you left all your options with your lack of activity and only going on about Chaore/Schezo earlier in the game, what will you say about thatttttttt?
My braaaaaiiiiiiinnnnnnn. Somebody atttteeeeedddddd it.
Because I'm a potato.
Anyway.
Going to try to make another post because my brain really doesn't work.
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Votecount after the crash
Shadoweh (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh,
Chaore (3) - Hanged Hourai, UncertainKitten, Dormio
Not voting: Everyone Else
Chaore is at L-3
10 alive, 6 votes to lynch.
31 hours to end of day, approximately.
-
I'm up~
Bardiche: What were you hoping to gain from quicklynching Chaore?
-
Voting someone to L-1 doesn't quicklynch him.
How does Town Capt H and MyLo imply Town Watcher Kiro? Eh, whatever.
##Vote: Chaore
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I have to throw serious wtf at Bardiche now who A) Decided Kiro couldn't possibly be a Town Watcher
I said there was no reason to assume he was both Town and a Watcher. I never said it was impossible.
B) Tried to get a case going on me for pulling the wagon off the Town Watcher
I made the case on you prior to the lynch on D2. Try again.
C) wanted us to hammer the Chaore-scum before capt.h replaced out. We wouldn't have known we were in MYLO till waaaaay later.
And we would've lynched scum and then the next day'd still be MyLo or whatever. How exactly does this incriminate me or anything? It's not scummy to want to lynch scum.
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SO! GUYS! IS POSTING NO LONGER COOL? BECAUSE I THOUGHT POSTING WAS AWESOME! I'D PROBABLY HAVE POSTED MORE TODAY BUT I GOT DRAGGED OUT TO DO A LOT OF STUFF WITH ABSOLUTELY NO NOTICE!
WHAT EXCUSES DO YOU ALL HAVE =D!?
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MIGHT I ADD THAT THIS IS PRECISELY WHY I WANTED TO END THE GODDAMN DAY ALREADY. Call me scum but this amount of *LURK* cannot be pro-town for anyone.
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I just woke up, give me some spaaaace!
Okay, you're right in that I can't count when I have no sleep. But if we're at 7-3 and in MYLO.. there would have to be another vigilante shot tonight because even Chaore's promised Kitten explosion wouldn't put us to 3-3. IF THERE IS GUESS WHO YOU SHOULD SHOOT TONIGHT. HIS NAME STARTS WITH S AND ENDS WITH EZO
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Ok, only 2 people for now since I wanna get this out there sooner.
Dormio has coasted by the entire day today tunneling, and not saying anything worthwhile since the X2 Scumcatch Combo!! I don't want the day to end until I see a nice, fat post from him.
If I say I believe you to be scum, because of how open you left all your options with your lack of activity and only going on about Chaore/Schezo earlier in the game, what will you say about that?
I'd say that your are silly. Unless I'm the superbusser extraordinare, it's silly to think I was original scum. It doesn't make sense to think I'm the recruit because it would force me to do a complete 180 that would certainly draw scrutiny and leave a trail to my supposed buddies.
The reason those people get a clear from me is that Zak pretty much drew Schezo out with his fakeclaim, Conqy looked like Chaore's last minute desperation attempt to get another wagon and distance, HW was Schezo's vote all three days and a recruit on him would have been bad since he had some suspicions.
And if you could stop taking little potshots at me without giving a real opinion of me and post some updated reads or tell me if your tunnel case is still valid in your eyes, that'd be appreciated.
And now for my speculation and uneasiness.
Chaore claimed scum. It would be bad timing for scum to normally do it at L-2 because he can't self-hammer at that point. Unless he's a bad player and just went renegade on his buddies, I feel like the stunt was more planned to give cred to at least one of his buddies, namely, those who were attacking him.
It is for this reason that I feel uneasiness with UncertainKitten.
Day 3 was started out with a gut vote and no/little elaboration on a formal case.
Chaore never addressed this. He never addressed the gut vote.
If he really was scum that wanted to live, I think he would be telling people off who could easily be told off. e.g. A gut vote. This looks like a bussing attempt to me.
Um...actually, I don't want to comment on the Chaore case. I have thoughts and I'm not sure how I feel about them. Expect me to explain this in more detail day three. (I'll note we have less than 12 hours left in the day. We are not fucking up a majority lynch this time)
Wait-and-see on Chaore and never actually did explain.
She was behind the LLD wagon, and added fuel to make sure both the PX and Dormio wagons got speed D2.
I also believe that UK answered me after I asked her why she stayed on PX if she was doubtful of him being scum. She replied that she wanted a full majority lynch on him. She can probably come up with some way to spin this pro-town, but this reads to me that she wanted to implicate as many people as suspicious by being on the town wagon as possible.
There out post this get gonna.
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And if UncertainKitten DOES explode it means there can't have been 4 scum to start and Hourai can't have been original sin, therefore making me sheep to him next game like he is my mafia god. \o/ I think it would make him an interesting recruit choice though. We'll know soon enough again. From my perspective I want to hear new cases today or tomorrow (I don't mind ending today right now at this rate) from the following people:
Hourai for wait why am I on your suspicions list you jerk. (Cut by a big phat post!) If UK is still alive tomorrow I admit Chaore will have made a major WIFOM with his role, but.. we should see it when we lynch him no? If he doesn't flip Scum Bomberman we'll have a night to check her out.
Bard for starting today with a vote on me while throwing stones at Chaore, citing reasons from yesterday for lynching me (this is bad because if he just became scum he wouldn't want to make up new ones) and my baffling lynch behaviour (that he just said wasn't scummy) ??? Bard, why did you unvote me? Yes I know the reasons you stated, but why the unvote? I didn't do anything that made you think I was less scummy according to you.
Dormio for starting today with a tunnel on me and /ignoring both my case on scum and the giant scum wagon sitting right there. Except later to maintain that Chaore is town. O_o? Dormio, I'd like you to have more then one suspect at a time right now. Who else do you think could be scum now?
I'm not sure how I feel about huh what right now since I agree with his observations. I think I'm not feeling him as recruitscum and want to hear more about what he thinks.
Everyone else gets to be ~*TOWN*~ :toot: Expect me to change my mind tomorrow and attempt to eliminate all my town reads in true Shadoweh fashion.
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So, uh, HH, are you telling me that 7 pro town people would jump on a town lynch? With three scum that would mean all of them and two townies stayed off the lynch. This is kind of a thing that would become obvious! And then you bring up something I already addressed (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664570.html#msg664570), and...accuse me of something that other people are guilty of. I can't explain why claimed scum didn't do a thing. I figured he was just attacking the cases on him because those were things he could attack, but what was he honestly going to say to a gut read? If you look at the thing I linked earlier, scum like cases because it changes it from who is scum to who is the better arguer. So...I don't see anything interesting there at all!
If I'm scum am I a recruit or an original? Your case implies original.
@Shadoweh: Why don't you want to hear anything new from me? As far as I can tell, with Schezo/Chaore scum, HW scum for some reason becomes less likely, though I'm not clear on why. I also get the impression I'd have to do another reread today and I'm kind of super tired. So that means I'm left with no scum forever suspects. I also probably need to check how Conquerer/K4U work in light of Chaore/Schezo scum.
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I meant I don't really care if you defend yourself today seeing as you're possibly dead. I'm more interested in what you have to say about finding the scums. Why do you keep sounding like you want to accuse me of something? It hurts my townie feelings. :< Yes, please get your thoughts out.
Also seriously when do we want to end today I've got a vote right here and all just waiting to go! @_@
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Midnight or one would be fine. Anyway, I'll try my best to get at least a recruit read out before then. I'm honestly not feeling like reading the entire god damn game one more time. Especially if I'm just going to magically die tonight.
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Hi, I'll help you all in whatever endeavors you pursue but I still like this Shadoweh lynch. I mean, she even calls me town while voting me.
Everyone else gets to be ~*TOWN*~
What a lying liar. :V
-
Hey Dormio, remember that time I said I wanted you to post?
Do you also remember that time you said you'd post?
These are still things.
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True story, my internet tried to suicide when I tried to vote for myself. No, really.
:< I am such a liar. I'M SORRY TOWNIES. I CAN'T ARGUE WITH SCHEZO'S TOWNIE LOGIC!
##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh
Now let me check my list of people who should get a post in.
1. Bardiche <- Decent posting already, wants to omg end day, would like question answered
2. Dormio <- OMFG YOU BETTER HAVE SOMETHING GOOD TOMORROW IF YOU'RE STAYING SILENT
3. Schezo <- Please tell me more. :)
4. Shadoweh <- THE TOWNEST
6. Hanged Hourai <- There out post that got
8. UncertainKitten <- Tick tocking should get something in I'LL MISS YOU IF YOU EXPLODE ;-;
10. Zakeri <- Did not die N1 Obvscum
11.Chaore <- Please tell me more. :)
13. huhwhat <- Got in some pre-cases please keep talking
14. K4U/Conqueror <- Isn't it Conqueror's birthday? He's not going to be back is he
OKAY YOU ALL SUCK
EXCEPT HOURAI AND UNCERTAINKITTEN. THEY ARE MY PALS
EVEN IF THEY'RE SCUM
##Unvote
##Vote: Chaore
Let's get this damn day finished.
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I'm voting now before I disappear again, so like, feel free to TALK before you hammer him.
Also Schezo Chaore did you not notice you could have quickhammered like ten hours ago
get your scummy selves together seriously
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Nah, I don't feel like talking about myself.
How about I ask everyone what flavor they are and decide who to eat tonight based off that? That will be fun~
Dormio already claimed potato flavor, what are the rest of you crazies?
-
Paru flavour.
OH MY GOD I JUST REALIZED.
TOO MANY PEOPLE AGREE THAT SCHEZO IS SCUM
THIS IS SUSPICIOUS
WE HAVE TO STOP TIME
-
Back and making my post now. Taking a day off from this game was a godsend.
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I'm voting now before I disappear again, so like, feel free to TALK before you hammer him.
Also Schezo Chaore did you not notice you could have quickhammered like ten hours ago
get your scummy selves together seriously
Shadoweh.
You people are literally doing nothing. We're...not really pressed to quickhammer.
also i may not be properly paying attention to this game anymore.
oh you put me at L-1. Well then.
##Vote: Chaore.
cutting conqueror with hammer.
-
Fuck you.
Bardiche looks scummy.
Dormio looks scummy.
Quick thoughts on other people:
I don't think Hourai was scum before D3 and I don't think the scum team would have the balls to recruit him. Huh what is town for making sense. Zakeri is town for vig shenanigans. UK is town for unvote quickhammer shenanigans. Shadoweh is town for interactions with Schezo. Schezo and Chaore claimed scum in thread. I think that's everyone.
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btw conqy you might want to post faster in case they-oh wait
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Bardiche danced around the Chaore wagon and then tried to quickhammer Chaore before the capt. h modkill. I'll have to think more about the implications of this.
Dormio did practically nothing all day except for that out of nowhere case on Shadoweh.
-
EBWOP: Put Chaore to the threshold where he would have been quickhammered upon capt. h's modkill. Bleh.
-
I also want to know from Bardiche if he is still pushing Shadoweh as scum after the events of today, and for what reasons.
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See this is why I take forever to make posts or else they all end up like these.
Dormio's entire case on Shadoweh looks borrowed from Bardiche. Considering this is the only case he held on to all day. Now I'm just repeating myself. Hey Dormio this is how you make posts isn't it. No wonder you always sound disjointed.
Also there's the random Hourai push which I still don't completely understand.
-
Yeah I need a thorough reread. Making quick cases is bad for my blood pressure.
Watch Affinity delete everything after the hammer rofl.
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D3 Final Votecount
Shadoweh (1) - Schezo
Schezo (1) - Shadoweh,
Chaore (6) - Hanged Hourai, UncertainKitten, Dormio, Bardiche, Shadoweh, Chaore
Not voting: Everyone Else
===
Chaore was lynched. He was Hong Meiling, human, Scum JoAT. Her role is as follows.
You are a 1-shot rolecop (complete role PM), tracker, and roleblocker. During any night, you may use any one of these abilities and target a person of your choice. Once an ability is used, you may not use it again. You may not use them if you are conducting the NK.
It is now Night 3. Everyone has 24 hours.
-
IT'S DAY 4 <3
Zakeri, playing Patchouli Knowledge, town-aligned Witch, has purchased an agricultural plot!
On all nights except N2, you may use your wood magic to ##protect someone. That person is immune to normal Nks and vigs for the night.
From D3 onwards, with exception of LyLo, you may use the power of the sun to ##illuminate someone during the day. If your target is a vampire, the target will be 'vanquished' (as good as a dayvig). If your target is not a vampire, then your target will be robbed of his sight and will be as good as roleblocked for that day and night (he will also not be able to carry out the NK if he is human scum). In both cases, this exhausting spell will render you unconscious throughout the remainder of the game, resulting in your flip.
You have 72 hours. Town is in MYLO.
-
Hangmafia!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
15 alive 7 scum
Dead Townies: Only the ones I've killed so far. :V
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First of all, disappearing during the latter half of yesterday.
Not much I can say about that other than I crashed.
Also, Conqueror, if you're suggesting that all I do is rip cases off other people.
Then I say fuck you. Seriously. Fuck you.
Anyway, yay, a scum flip.
And Chaore went down in some weird blaze of lies and ~*~loud noises~*~.
So let's cut through all that with a renewed case on UncertainKitten!
Hey, look at who Chaore decided to defend for no reason (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661632.html#msg661632), when said person had already said the same thing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661553.html#msg661553) in earlier posts.
To clarify, why does he feel the need to defend UK not once, but twice for the LLD wagon thing?
He says that he understands why the LLD wagon happened and spends a paragraph saying that you can't judge people for that. Okay.
And then he reiterates and writes up another paragraph defending UK for the LLD wagon thing.
Overly defensive of UK, much?
Also, "Here's a question: Is the major part of my case on UncertainKitten wrong or invalid? Do I sound like I don't believe she's scum? If either of these things sounds like valid complaints about my case on her, then please say so." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661643.html#msg661643) You know, I'm pretty sure this was ignored, and Zakeri's case on UK was later disregarded as "Give it the fuck up Zak, you have nothing on me and you're wasting fucktons of effort not telling us ANYTHING about your intent besides really wanting me lynched. I tire of it." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662181.html#msg662181)
And then she finishes up that post by insulting Zakeri and asking "So let's try this. Who's scum with me, Zak?" I dunno quite how to explain it, but I think that that question is really, really scummy.
Also, Chaore's #161 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659877.html#msg659877), I'm pretty sure I had said before that it was because I thought that UK knew for certain that Shadoweh was town. Nice ignoring to defend UK?
Flipped scum has not mentioned UK at all, outside of defending UK for whatever reason.
Oh, but that's not entirely true! Chaore mentioned UK again, after claiming scum he said that he was going to kill UK. Whee, last second distancing?
In addition, I hate UK's notion of a ~*~townie voting block~*~.
I think it's scum trying to take advantage of MotKTown apathy.
BECAUSE WE HAVE NO FUCKING NEED FOR A ~*~TOWNIE VOTING BLOCK~*~.
IT IS A TERRIBLE FUCKING IDEA AND ONLY SCUM WOULD WANT SUCH A THING TO HAPPEN.
Why is it terrible? First of all, it locks out half (or however many town are left) of the town from the entire lynch decision making process.
Secondly, how many of you are willing to bet that "compromise" means "lynch who I want or I'll kick you out and replace you with someone that will listen to what I say"?
Thirdly, did I mention that it locks out half the town from the decision making process?
The whole ~*~townie voting block~*~ is stupid.
Because do you know what effect it has? Everybody outside of the ~*~townie voting block~*~ will have no reason to post.
You just have your old material and you can spin your bullshit logic to get lynches on whoever the hell you want.
Oh, and too many scum in this game.
##Vote Schezo
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You spelt wrong Schezo. I believe Remilia only has 7 characters, not 8. Am I right though?
Dormio, wanna say anything about your tunnel case yesterday? Still find valid, or no?
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If scum exist outside of UK and Schezo, then I think Shadoweh would be the last one.
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Dormio, do I take that F in the first letter of your first word as your guess?
Hourai, you guessing Y?
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Dormio: You do realize that there is absolutely no way anything you said about pre-D3Chaore/UK connections is valid unless Kiro lied, right? UK is essentially confirmed to either be town or the scum recruit.
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And what rules out Kiro lying?
Or Chaore for that matter.
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This is a good word! Guess away please, it will be fun~
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Wait, if there's 8 people left... then there can't be 3 more scum... right? It would be pseudo-lylo if it was 5-3, right?
So there's only 2 left?...
>.< I never was good at later-game maths.
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And Hourai guesses a W!
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
14 alive 7 scum
Dead Townies: W
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Zak, why didn't you shoot Schezo for real? Or protect yourself.. :< Obvious kill was obvious.
Hey guys, let's play a game! Since I know we all need more reasons to discuss things. We're all ready and rawring to go vote Schezo and all, but I think it would be neat if everyone built a case on him looking over his posts. Oh no, time waster and we're already lynching him, I don't care, do it anyways. I want to see what you would call his scum intent.
As for the voting block idea. I think it's.. what is the word.. stating the obvious? Redundant, that's the word. We can form a group to discuss and support lynches using reasoning and clears, but the thing is, we already have this, this group consists of everyone in this town! All of town is important, there is no strength of play or character that makes one person's opinion more important then another's. We all find our trusted reads and consider them when choosing the scumz, we won't be doing anything differently. I will take UncertainKitten's opinion seriously when she's being serious, Bardiche's opinion when he's not trying to wagon me and being all sugoi, Conqueror's when he's not getting to it later, huh what when he's not quite so lost, and even Dormio when he's not rage tunneling. Yep, pretty sure I didn't forget anyone there. Anyways, what I'm saying is.
we are the voting block. it's us.
Continuing yesterday's case I will now totally vote myself because Schezo is so right about me. :<
Continuing from yesterday I want to see Dormio uhm, explain why he suddenly hates UncertainKitten instead of Hourai and what changed his mind? Probably just post general reads on everyone (with reasoning behind them please, not just I think you are town/scum). Bard, oh Bard, I can't remember but I think I asked you a question or something yesterday that you could answer please? UK, I am happy you're not dead but unfortunately it means you never got that poast analysis out you were gonna do so.. do want please! I don't recall much definitive from huh what either so he should fix that. I want to see lots of :wikipedia: today.
Schezo: E T S
@mod is town still in MYLO?
8 cuts? You spamtasticers
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_ _ _ _ T _ S _
11 alive 5 scum
Dead Townies: W E
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<Inaba_Tewi> notice for the players: YOU ARE IN LYLO
<Hatsundere_Miku> :/
<Inaba_Tewi> pls c/p that into thread for me
Four scum. I think Zak is the only reason we were in MyLo.
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Oh fuck this.
##Unvote
LYLO seriously?
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Unvoting because I don't want the off chance of having the day ending super early.
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Incidentally I can see why Chaore was so upset yesterday. I doubt the townie was lying, so Kiro really was a Town Watcher, and we lynched scum for trying to save the town watcher. Teehee. I wonder if PX is the killer or something, it doesn't seem town or scum motivated. Oh well more WIFOM. So we ARE looking for a past scum. That puts my eyes back on Hourai. Sorry little buddy, I just don't know if your cases were the right stuff. Chaore's only acknowledgement of you was to say 'oh you exist' and answer some of your questions even though you were voting for him. He didn't seem bothered by your presence.
MORE PEOPLE. MORE CASES ON MULTIPLE CHOICES. LET'S GET ON THIS.
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Schezo: obvscum.
UK: See above.
Which leaves you, Shadoweh.
Let's go over your most recent thing first.
#893: "Hello everybody should engage in this effort to waste all of our time and energy."
Seriously, why do you want everyone to rebuild a case on Schezo when his manner puts it beyond doubt that he's scum?
#679 -> #893: Nice change in opinion regarding the voting block, there.
Also, I'd really like to see you make a case on someone, you know. :)
Your current D4 tells us nothing about who you think is scum.
Your end D3 tells us nothing about who you think is scum.
The middle section of your D3 also tells us nothing about who you think is scum.
Oh, you opened up D3 with a Schezo case that you didn't really do anything with.
Your entire D3&4 has been you poking people, telling them to make cases whereas you coast by prodding people and defending yourself when I said stuff.
Also, I like how you seemed to have forgotten about Chaore for the most part after D3 started until he claimed scum.
You were also strangely open to UK's idea of a ~*~townie voting block~*~.
To reiterate.
I think that UK and Schezo are scum, I think Shadoweh was recruited.
Oh my God I was closing tabs and then I closed the "Post reply" tab.
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-
Limited Motivation -> No Motivation
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Schezo had disconenct and fencesittng on an opinion of Kiro in his first post, giving room to swing either way on an opinion in the future. The thing on Dormio was weak and left himself to just jump on it if he wanted.
His pushing for his scumpick was very unimpressive and he didn't even update it, borrowing it from D1. Looked like a place to park it. He did not push his scum opinion on Dormio at all, but left himself open to get on a wagon if one arose. Did not push his lynches and coasted. Did not explain his priorities and left himself open without precedent.
Wait, 4 scum?... @_@ Aughhhhhhh
Ok by now my suspicion is mostly divided between UK, Dormio, and Bard.
UK being a bit higher than the other two, for the suspicions I voiced earlier before.
So, uh, HH, are you telling me that 7 pro town people would jump on a town lynch? With three scum that would mean all of them and two townies stayed off the lynch. This is kind of a thing that would become obvious! And then you bring up something I already addressed, and...accuse me of something that other people are guilty of. I can't explain why claimed scum didn't do a thing. I figured he was just attacking the cases on him because those were things he could attack, but what was he honestly going to say to a gut read? If you look at the thing I linked earlier, scum like cases because it changes it from who is scum to who is the better arguer.
The first part makes no sense at all. What I said was she was starting to clear PX, but still wanted as many people as possible on the town wagon. The second thing is handwavy. Just because you mentioned how you added speed to all the big wagons D1 and 2 in passing doesn't make it any less scummy. And what am I accusing you of that other people did? Making up intentions for Chaore, dismissing it as "what could he do?" looks bad as scum could easily say something to a gut vote, even if only mentioning it. And the thing with the link is what. You get cleared because scum didn't want to argue with you? Scum tend to not want to argue with buddies too.
Shadoweh, :<. If I'm original scum, are you saying I'm superbusser extraordinare? Lining up my buddies by my second post and selling them down the river?
Gonna get this post out there TM
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"Oh, you opened up D3 with a Schezo case that you didn't really do anything with."
That's weird because you barely mentioned Schezo during D1&2 at all.
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Shadoweh, :<. If I'm original scum, are you saying I'm superbusser extraordinare? Lining up my buddies by my second post and selling them down the river?
honk honk
Dormio: Which of these scenarios is more likely?
A) There were three scum wagons on Day 3
B) Scum recruited their most likely D3 mislynch
C) Shadoweh is town for being the counterwagon to two, two scum, ah ah ah ah
So you're being silly, go make a case on Schezo please.
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So you're being silly, go make a case on Schezo please.
The question remains. Why?
Why do you insist that town should waste their efforts on reproving that somebody that's done all but claim scum is scum?
And I have no idea what you're trying to get at with your three scenario thing.
Can you explain to me what you're trying to imply through your scenarios A/B/C?
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What if Schezo is a third party, and we're actually dealing three scum + a survivor? It seems odd to me that he would not have been able to arrange a quickhammer with his buddies yesterday.
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Well, two scum + a survivor, since Chaore died.
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The question remains. Why?
Why do you insist that town should waste their efforts on reproving that somebody that's done all but claim scum is scum?
Because it would be fun! :toot: Go on, try it. You already know he's scum, so it shouldn't be hard to find something, right?
[quoteAnd I have no idea what you're trying to get at with your three scenario thing.
Can you explain to me what you're trying to imply through your scenarios A/B/C?
[/quote]
I'm implying you're being a derp. Shadoweh cases are a thing of the past.
Incidentally I laid out my suspects yesterday, they are Bard, you and Hourai silly! huh what gets added back as possible original sin, if not recruited.
Re: Survivor Schezo. Why on earth would he try to hammer his scumpartner as a survivor silly? The level of town activity afterwards was 5%, I'm not surprised they took the time to plot with Chaore instead.
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Fine, I'll bite in regards to Schezo.
He's spamming up the topic with his hangmafia thing.
Can you explain how that makes me a derp?
Making another post.
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Haha, no, I mean a real case looking at his past posts.
HH shouldn't forget to address the Day 3 Schezoz posts either.
It makes you a derp because you're implying amazing levels of town intuition on Day 3 that are sorely lacking. But I'll pretend what you're saying has merit. How was I 'not doing anything' with my Schezo case that I was pushing?
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I like how you're not answering me.
For Durrmio's sake, care to explain how those three scenarios show that I'm a derp?
And why do you want us to waste our efforts so on building a case on Schezo? Seriously, explain to me why.
Because, I mean, it's like, come on. He's freaking spamming hangmafia in the topic. Obstruction from caught scum etc. etc.
Oh, I missed #624 somehow, huh? Whatever.
I like how you ignore the thing about your shift in opinion regarding the voting block.
Also, #834. According to your numbers, four scum, right? Chaore is one. Bard, me, and HH, right? Care to state what you think about aforementioned cases?
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The first two scenarios are what you are implying, that all three of the choices being bandied around seriously yesterday were scum. You're also implying that I called attention to my scummy scum-buddy that everyone else had forgotten was playing because.. ??? I'm telling you the third one is the truth and your pursuit of me isn't town-intended. Let go and make more cases on scum.
I'm not going to explain why, how about you go do it? If you want a reason consider it a study of finding scum intent. Maybe Schezo will refute your words? :o
Yeah, my opinion changed a little since yesterday. Something neat happened. You see, I remembered I'm actually good at mafia and believe in bringing all the town together to a motivated whole. Using the word voting block implies people get left out, but I'm preeetty sure the whole of town is going to back me up on this one. You're ignoring that you lost your previous point against me and just pushing me for the sake of staying on me. Who else is scum?
Bard: I think he should get in here soon and answer my question. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg665077.html#msg665077) Then he can make a case on Scumzo and whoever else he postulates is scum right now.
You: Your inability to sense the trends in opinion doesn't make me think highly of you right now.
Hanged Hourai: It honestly could be paranoia. I'm effectively saying we should lynch someone for being good at mafia. It's a matter of asking how honest I think his previous cases were.
Huh whatty: I see you there, please to be fulfilling my Impossible Request. :)
Schezo: M N
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Who else is scum?
To reiterate.
I think that UK and Schezo are scum, I think Shadoweh was recruited.
Schezo, there's nothing I need to say.
UK, I made my case, let's see UK's response whenever UK comes around.
And you.
You're ignoring that you lost your previous point against me and just pushing me for the sake of staying on me.
And you're trying to invalidate what I'm saying just because I made a mistake.
I like how you're trying to make it sound like I'm focused purely on you.
Yes, all of my posts right now are directed at you. You're around, other people aren't. I wonder if there's a correlation between the two.
And, what, am I to understand that you're trying to convince us of Schezo being town aligned?
Also, in regards to the scenario thing.
So you're calling yourself scum's preferred mislynch, as well as a viable wagon yesterday?
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Schezo, there's nothing I need to say.
UK, I made my case, let's see UK's response whenever UK comes around.
And you.
You have got to have suspicions of more people, Dormio. Your focus is too small. If you can't tell me why anyone else is scum, tell me what's convinced you that four other suspicious people are town. I believe I already asked you to give an opinion on everyone with reasoning. Your gut is either broken or you don't have one because yo' be scummin' it up.
And, what, am I to understand that you're trying to convince us of Schezo being town aligned?
Well he DID post that convincing Shadoweh case..
Also, in regards to the scenario thing.
So you're calling yourself scum's preferred mislynch, as well as a viable wagon yesterday?
Yesterday? It was certainly the truth, according to the votes and the spoken suspicions. I think it's possible a wagon could have swung onto me.
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You have got to have suspicions of more people, Dormio. Your focus is too small. If you can't tell me why anyone else is scum, tell me what's convinced you that four other suspicious people are town. I believe I already asked you to give an opinion on everyone with reasoning. Your gut is either broken or you don't have one because yo' be scummin' it up.
Hey, Shadoweh, I think you need to be suspicious of more people. Your focus is to small. Can you tell me what scummy things everybody else has been doing so that I can take these points and see if I can make a case out of it? Alternatively, can you tell me who you think is town so I can see who everybody thinks is town and avoid making a case on them that will make me look stupid?
Well he DID post that convincing Shadoweh case..
You serious?
I like how you've shifted your opinion regarding Schezo.
I mean, you barely mention him at all until you open up your D3 with a case on him.
And then you keep pushing him as scum during D3.
Then you express doubt of Schezo being scum for whatever reason during end D3 and now you're suggesting that he's not scum. <- Finding links right now.
Yesterday? It was certainly the truth, according to the votes and the spoken suspicions. I think it's possible a wagon could have swung onto me.
Wat.
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Schezo (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663596.html#msg663596) is scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663902.html#msg663902) -> Schezo might not have been scum but apparently he claimed scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664650.html#msg664650) -> Schezo isn't scum again (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg665948.html#msg665948)
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Apparently your sarcasm meter is broken too. :< Stop fighting me for the sake of fighting me and be pro-town, Dormio. Answer my questions seriously, stop dodging by accusing me more.
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Make a case on Schezo? If his actions with Chaore at end D3 didn't prove that he was scum, then his current actions definitely have.
Who is scum? Schezo, UK, and you!
What else did you want from me?
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Also, brush aside what I say and just throw an insult my way.
Taking a leaf out of UK's book, are we?
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Dormio. I am in a unique position to know you are wrong. Therefore I am not going to be satisfied until you present an alternative scumpick that has a chance of actually being scum. You refuse to post a case looking over Schezo's old actions. You refuse to even consider the other players right now. You keep dodging my questions. I am being completely serious with you. Make a real case on Schezo. Explain your reasoning for everyone that isn't UK and myself being town since you're so convinced. Explain how you still have a case on me at all.
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I think that the other people are town because you, UK, and Schezo are scum.
If you want to convince me otherwise, go make a case on whoever you think is scum instead of trying to poke holes in my case. Or do both. In fact, it's even better if you can do both.
Schezo is not acting in town's interests right now, and has not been pretending to make an effort at all after he was routed as scum.
Schezo has been missing during important moments.
Like Chaore, defends the people on the LLD wagon.
Also, you believe Kiro's claim of watcher, right? And LLD was our cop. So. How do you know for certain that Schezo is town?
I think, considering how much you call for other people to give their opinions, you're being awfully hypocritical.
You're the self-proclaimed scum's favorite mislynch, why would you even try to use this argument? It just calls in a bunch of WIFOM or something, doesn't it?
Yes, I am convinced I am right. If you think I am not right, instead of saying that I am wrong, SHOW me why I'm wrong.
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instead of just*
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>.> This is why I said your sarcasmometer is broken. Schezo is scum.
And as far as opinions go I like hypocracy. :) I've already made my scum choices and I'm waiting for answers. And a post from huh what. @_@ But I have to argue with you. You're either scum or a townie that wants to vote for me in LYLO and I can't have that. I'm sure as hell not getting town vibes from your overdefensive OMGUSing under pressure. Let's try this again. Make a case on Schezo so I can examine your reasoning. Explain to me YOUR reasoning why everyone else is cleared, in words that make it sound like you actually read their posts. Because my scum picks are scum is not reasoning. It makes you sound like you just don't want to because :words:
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>.> This is why I said your sarcasmometer is broken. Schezo is scum.
fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff-
I told you, I think Schezo is scum due to his late D3 and activity today.
And I'm clearing everybody else because I think that you, Schezo, and UK are the scum. And one more scum would mean that town has already lost. Process of elimination, yo.
And, no, I don't plan on voting for you today. Confirmed scum over person-that-I'm-almost-certain-is-scum.
Though, it would be nice if people other than you and I posted stuff.
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You keep telling people to renew their case on Schezo, then when I ask you if you're defending Schezo, you say that "he did have that case on you...", and then I thought that your "I know you're wrong" was in regards to Schezo and stop bullying me just because I'm bad at english. :(
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Yes, actually, it's still a MyLO. Yet another mod mistake.
No votes yet.
[edible]I blame Pesco.[/edible]
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<Edible> I blame Pesco.
You too? :V
If you ask really nicely, I might tell you where you may be wrong. :3
_ _ _ N T _ S M
9 alive 3 scum
Dead Townies: W E
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A meeting needs to be held to discuss MyLo vs LyLo.
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Wow arguing with Dormio by myself sure is fun. I sure hope no one else posts.
I'm talking about you wanting to vote me tomorrow. Today is already going to end in Schezo lynching, there aren't other choices. But you seriously have got to read the rest of Schezo's posts to find the other scum.
Or, yknow, notice that his Day 3 was not friendly to me, that would be cool too.
Process of elimination works the other way around. You find the scum by figuring out who the town are, you don't find the town by figuring out the scum. Everyone has something scummy they've done if you look hard enough.
MyLo vs LyLo: Oh whichever. The vigilante doctor just died, I'm assuming they mean we can no-lynch without losing. Still looking for 2 scum.
Schezo: P H A die obvscum
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P H A N T A S M
6 alive 0 scum!
Dead Townies: W E
Ok so now the rest of you play.
_ _ _ _ _ _
13 alive 5 scum
Dead townies: Only Zakeri who fought bravely last night.
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All right, let's see what fresh hell I missed here. Suppose I should have said something but all this week I will be working from 9 AM to 5 PM so I can afford Otakon. Meaning I'll only be posting between about now and 12 AM. Wish I could do better but we'll both have to deal with this I guess!
Dormio is proposing the laughable notion of a town voting block being a bad idea, by misrepresenting it, using scare tactics, and overall being awful. He would be the recruit though, so that's ok. It's natural he fears a town voting block because he knows that it will destroy scum. Let us address the points
1. No, it doesn't. I explicitly said I wanted input from everyone even after the voting block was set because we cannot work in a vacuum.
2. Yes, I would SO get away with that. You do realize that if I tried that, the other people in the voting block would basically say "Uh, no. UK, you're not in the voting block anymore". That's kind of how it works, you know.
3. Wrong, due to point one. Also, it's cute of you to repeat points in different ways to make your anti voting block stance look better.
So, no, I'm afraid that it is your arguments against the voting block that are stupid, Dormio. The rest of your post isn't worth reading for about the reason HW brings up a few posts later.
@Shadoweh: I would guess Zak didn't kill Schezo because it would treestump him, unless I'm misunderstanding his role. And since he was obvscum after the vig, there was no gain in treestumping himself just to kill today's lynch. No idea why he didn't protect himself. Secondly, Dormio, while he should be listened to so we can find his buddy, is not town. I get what you're saying, and given the vast improvement in our situation, I see no need to form a formal voting block anymore. That said, narrowing the people who decide the lynch directly is an important tool when town isn't getting itself together. Thirdly, I never promised post analysis, I promised to reread D3 and say a bunch of names I liked and didn't like. I haven't actually done that yet and I'm not sure how much I feel like doing so. I still may try though. It's ok though, because Dormio is recruit scum.
@Hourai: Explain how adding speed to wagons is at all scummy, when at the time I was convinced of scum intent on each of them. The ONLY questionable wagon support was continuing to push PX after I was starting to feel he was town, and even that was so we'd get a damned majority lynch. MAJORITY LYNCHES GIVE INFORMATION. I also never said I was cleared, I merely said scum like cases because it becomes a game of "who is the better arguer", not "who is scum". And actually, scum tend not to argue with me because of what happened to PX and Dormio earlier in the day, but that's a different discussion.
So, tell me, am I scum, or are you just going to keep theorizing about stuff that can't really be perceived as scum intended?
@HW: You look all kinds of fucking awful for even proposing Schezo as a third party. WHY WOULD THAT EVEN MATTER!?
@Dormio: Well, when you're being as absolutely scummy as you're being...
Shadoweh is town, but you're wasting your time with Dormio and adding noise to the thread. Stop humoring his awful. If he brings something new to the table, sure, respond, but you're going in circles right now.
Anyway, first blush is Dormio recruit, HW scum. I'll look over D3 at some point this evening.
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I swear that last part in Zak's role wasn't there when I read it the first time. >_> It looks like vigging would have killed him. Yeah, good thing he didn't use it then. I'M SORRY FOR DOUBTING YOU ZAKKY-CHAN <3 <3 <3
Kittan the problem with a town voting block during MyLO/LyLO is it only takes two/one townies to vote for the wrong person. All we can do is encourage people not to make hasty decisions. We need everyone in here letting us know their reads. You're still a suspect for recruitment yourself, I can't in good conscience let you get by today without posting your own analysis of people. Also serious about wanting to see a case on Schezo from you.
If Dormio is scum as you say and I'm seriously believing I fail to see how pressuring him is noise. We want the scum to be the one talking don't we? :3 Besides, the more he continues to be obstinant the clearer his intent is for either side to see.
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The amount of activity in this topic is absolutely staggering.
1. No, it doesn't. I explicitly said I wanted input from everyone even after the voting block was set because we cannot work in a vacuum.
2. Yes, I would SO get away with that. You do realize that if I tried that, the other people in the voting block would basically say "Uh, no. UK, you're not in the voting block anymore". That's kind of how it works, you know.
3. Wrong, due to point one. Also, it's cute of you to repeat points in different ways to make your anti voting block stance look better.
1. It doesn't work in a vacuum, cool. I still fail to see why anyone that isn't in the voting block would have a reason to post?
2. As the person that made the voting block, and with how aggressive and stuff you are, I'm sure you'd find a way to stay in. At worst, the voting block would be dissolved and you'll have wasted time accomplishing very little.
3. I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to as wrong, so I'm just going to point back to 1.
The voting block is stupid and scummy.
The rest of your post isn't worth reading for about the reason HW brings up a few posts later.
And you're all going to believe the claims of both Kiro AND Chaore.
Never mind the fact that either of them, especially since Chaore was, you know, scum, could have just as easily been lying.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
I would hope that my intent is pretty clear. I want a UK and Shadoweh lynch once we're done with Schezo today.
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@Shadoweh: Caught scum isn't likely to produce reliably analyzable content. They'd want to produce noise and WIFOM instead. Even (especially?) if they're scum!Dormio-tier insane.
I'm working on a post, but a recent trend I've noticed is that I'll start writing a post and then get braindead and save it for later halfway through, followed by a few hours of procrastinating. So it might take a while. <_<
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tl;dr version of my opinions is that I still think Dormio is recruit scum and my top suspect for original!scum is Bard because of a lot of his D3 actions. He initially seemed reluctant to push Chaore until other people started doing so, and his late-day encouragement towards hammering still looks awful in my eyes.
Now you have something to go on before I actually finish the post, at least.
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Sure, my case on Schezo is that when I read him I get awful gut vibes. When he was fake vigged, he claimed vampire and Chaore's behavior around the claim implied that he meant to take the action for Schezo. Schezo's claim does not fit with being a vampire, as it is Yukari, who is not a vampire. Therefore, Schezo is scum. Congrats, a case. Wonderful greatness it did, huh?
The reason it's noise is because you keep saying the same things. As I said, every time he says something new it's ok to respond, but it's just noise generating to say the same things over and over. I have trouble with it too, I know.
Dormio remains wrong.
1. The pro town thing is to post your reads and see if someone in the voting block picks up on them. Explain things well, and it'll probably happen! Further, your intent will become clearer as you post.
2. Scare tactics. This isn't a reason.
3. The fact that this point is the SAME EXACT POINT as point one.
Dormio is stupid and scummy.
Scum don't lie for the sake of lying if they can get away with the truth. Lying attracts bad attention. What reasons do you have to believe Chaore was lying about his targetting? Also, it's virtually certain Kiro is town. Why would you believe Kiro is lying? The scummy discreditation here is hilarious.
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バカバカバカバカバカバカバカバカ Vote Count
Not voting: Everyone
8 alive, 5 votes to lynch.
Lay off on the バカ-calling because the one who calls バカ is the バカ.
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I'm pretty sure if I look back Dormio originally believed Kiro was town. Dormio, if you really are so 110% sure, why don't you just vote me now so we can game over now instead of wasting another six days before the next mafia game? If not, why don't you go back to voting Schezo? Why would you unvote him 'just in case' when he's scum in LYLO anyways? Watch, I'll help.
##Vote: Schezo
UK: Sakuya isn't a vampire either, disbelieving it for that reason is silly. You know what I mean anyways,. Actually go back and reread Schezo and tell me where you think his scum intent was, I didn't see any gut vibes from you earlier. I especially want to see this since you think huh what is scum.
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Sakuya is more likely to be a vampire than Yukari.
I'm not rereading this fucking game again, sorry Shadoweh. I have better things to do with my time. If things don't seem to make sense, I might give it another reread. But right now? Fuck no. Best you'll get is how I feel about D3. And that will be a gut list. I'm done with cases.
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Cutting in to say that Kiro may have been lying about his role (Watcher doesn't line up with the other powers roles that have flipped), but now that we know he was probably town he probably wasn't lying about seeing someone visit UK. Chaore claimed to have visited UK, and no one else did, meaning that he was probably telling the truth about that little point.
I'll write up a case on Schezo later. For now, I'm working on expanding on what I said at the end of the day yesterday.
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Because if it were LYLO, that means that a single town vote means that scum can pile onto that vote to end the day's discussion. Even easier if more than one town person votes for that person.
1. The whole idea of appealing to the voting block, in the hopes that somebody will listen. I hate it.
And the voting block will demotivate the people not inside the block. Yes or no?
2. And you're posting hypothetical reactions. That is not a reason.
3. And I would like you to tell me WHICH PART YOU'RE REFERRING TO WHEN YOU SAY IT'S THE SAME EXACT REASON.
The voting block is stupid and scummy.
Kiro lying, I don't think he really was lying.
Chaore lying on the other hand. Allow me to rephrase and redirect your question at you. What reason would Chaore have to tell the truth?
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Shadoweh, you want me to tell you why Schezo is scummy? What? OK, well... ┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ He sort of admitted to it when he tried to unilaterally quick-lynch and has since refused to be cooperative? I have no idea what you would like me to state here.
ION I'm fine with lynching him today and just be all blindfolds with regard to who are the scums.
##Vote: Schezo
┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ Mafiers is hard. Yeah, sorry, I just got home, it's 10 past midnight, and I want to sleep cos I have to get up in six hours again. No elaborate cases. Deal with it.
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And guess what he's doing now? Generating noise with this stupid voting block argument because he's the fat kid that didn't get picked for the team. Dormio is stupid and scummy, and I'm not going to get drawn into your noise vortex of awful. You have no new content in your recent three points.
Telling the truth is less suspicious than lying, and his action of targetting me wasn't objectively scummy. Burden of proof is on you, bucko.
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to who are the other scums*
Fuck analysis of relation, the Chaore sorta blew up and now I don't know what's what.
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Can we at least leave him alive for at least 24 hours so everyone who wants to chip in can chip in? >_>
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Because if it were LYLO, that means that a single town vote means that scum can pile onto that vote to end the day's discussion. Even easier if more than one town person votes for that person.
Oh no! I hope Schezo's buddy doesn't pile onto him to quicklynch him like Schezo did to Chaore yesterday! :ohdear:
Don't be daft, vote for the scum, as long as we leave him at L-2 he can't hammer himself.
Kiro lying, I don't think he really was lying.
Chaore lying on the other hand. Allow me to rephrase and redirect your question at you. What reason would Chaore have to tell the truth?
Why would scum lie about a town power role clearing him as town? I don't think it would occur to him to lie about something he could actually tell the truth about.
UK: You can't be serious. Okay, not the game. I'm asking you to read Schezo. Is it really too much to ask that you reread THE SCUM? Especially one that was voting for one of your scumpicks?
Bard: *headdesk* Could you please be a little more unhelpful I think I almost got some motive from you there
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Lay off on the バカ-calling because the one who calls バカ is the バカ.
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Hmm, initially I was going to say ISO reading Schezo was a bad idea because ISOs lend themselves to confirmation bias (I generally only use them to be :lazy:), but, since I already know he's scum, you're right that more can be pulled from his ISO. I'm still not going to make a case on him though. I will read his ISO and tell you if any of my conclusions change.
At some point this evening.
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Also, from what I remember on the previous day with someone SHADOWEH going all "omg bard wanted to quick-lynch Chaore (one-man quicklynch ahoy) and it'd happen BEFORE WE KNEW WE"D BE IN LYLO OMG!", this is patently silly to hold against me as being scummy because regardless of the MyLo status, lynching Chaore was a necessary step to win the game for Town. There's no real profit a scum!Bard would've had from a mislynch other than the agonising propensity of town to involve itself in silly second-guessing and cocking about when they have scum at the lynch nook.
Talking more isn't going to MAGICALLY PRODUCE scum results ─ because believe it or not, sitting around with confirmed scum in your midst isn't that motivating to looking beyond the obvious wine in front of us.
That said, we should look at associations tomorrow when we're down one more town and scum, and then find out who the last two remaining scum are from there. The recruitee would be hardest, but until we clear out the scums who've claimed there's no sense in making cases on others unless you like posturing like some kind of hippo and dragging time out.
The voting block isn't useful right now because with only two or three mislynches during the entire game, we CANNOT AFFORD treating scum as confirmed town for whatever reason.
Shadoweh lol, I think you're scum, why should I entertain your needs over my own? I could write lovely walls of texts and banter with you about all the game development theories out there, but right now, I want to sleep. ┐(￣ー￣)┌ Problem? Deal with it.
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You know what.
Fuck this game.
I am going to be happy for the next day or whatever.
So you all can be all lurkertastic or whatever the it is you do.
Schezo is the scum. Obvious scum is obvious.
And before I go, UK is the scum. I think that the voting block is a terrible idea, UK maintains that it is a great idea. That sums up what we think about it, what do YOU think?
Chaore heavily defended UK for the LLD wagon. Only God knows why. If Chaore was willing to go to these lengths to defend UK, what stops him from lying to do the same? BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A REASON WHY HE CLAIMED SCUM TO GIVE US OUR FLIP OR SOMETHING.
Shadoweh is the scum. Conspiracy theory land tells me that Shadoweh and UK will ride of Schezo/Chaore cred to VICTOLY. Whatever, I'll reread this again tomorrow. I don't like how she treats herself as scum's favorite mislynch, nor do I like how willing you were to go along with the townie voting block idea, nor do I like how you forgot about Chaore until he claimed scum, nor do I like how your first response to me accusing you of being scum today was to put up those ridiculous statements that assume that you are the scum's favorite mislynch.
Finally, I am going to hold onto these opinions unless you can prove beyond a doubt that I'm wrong, or if you provide a more convincing case. Or do both. I recommend doing both.
I really don't give two shits about this right now.
##Vote Schezo
Good day to you all.
I am going to go be happy somewhere else now.
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Talking more isn't going to MAGICALLY PRODUCE scum results
And lurking will? We already have the scum. Two scum. We don't need to wait for the flip, we can look around right now. More time is always a boon as long as town is willing to use it. Yes, I think you need to get your reads down now, unless for some reason you're not afraid of dying Bard.
Shadoweh lol, I think you're scum, why should I entertain your needs over my own?
I thought we talked this issues out, Bard. :< Why do you think I'm scum again? You dropped this yesterday.
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Dormio elegantly sums up why a scum!Shadoweh result is possible.
I'm not afraid of dying because I won't die tonight, herpderp. And not because I'm the scums or any nonsense like that. Inb4 rolefish, no, gtfo. :)
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So basically you aren't even going to bother trying to figure out why Chaore would lie, just saying IT'S A THING THAT COULD HAPPEN.
Don't worry, I'm sure it must be irritating to play a game when you get recruited D3 and walk into two of your scumbuddies outing themselves when your initial plan was to coast coast coast ^-^.
...Bard suddenly becomes a lot less cool in my book. Rereading D3 should be REALLY interesting.
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You. You are the cause of all my rage. All of it.
"If Chaore was willing to go to these lengths to defend UK, what stops him from lying to do the same?"
HEY.
UK.
WHY WOULD CHAORE TELL THE TRUTH.
IT'S JUST A THING THAT COULD HAPPEN. RIGHT.
OH MY GOD.
LIKE TOTALLY.
HEY FUCK YOU TOO UK.
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BECAUSE LET'S IGNORE THE PART WHERE CHAORE CACKLES ON ABOUT HOW HE'S ALREADY WON ONCE HIS FLIP GETS REVEALED.
OH NO. THAT CAN'T HAVE BEEN RELEVANT TO THE GAME AT ALL.
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I've provided a lot more support for my stance than you have yours. The fact of the matter is that you generally don't do something like lie about a claim if it's not going to look scummy. Also, if Chaore were lying, why pick me, his supposed scumbuddy? All he does by claiming to target me is make me look like a potential recruit, so it doesn't really give me ~*~magical town cred~*~. So, no, you can't support both that Chaore and I are original scum together AND that Chaore was lying about his targetting, because "Chaore went to such lengths to defend me"
Also, you're very irritating yourself Dormio. I will wisely not go into the many reasons I utterly hate playing with you, at least in this game.
Cut by Dormio: Aaaaaaand? I'm not sure how this is relevant to anything at all?
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Dormio's play is reminding me of the Serial Killer from Darker Than Black.
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Dormio hasn't elegantly said anything. He's just reposted the same rant for hours and refused to look any further then ten feet in front of him. I don't care if the rest of you are ready to lose this game, I want to play it out and win. You're not using common sense, Bard. What has Dormio said that makes scum Shadoweh possible, that makes more sense then 'Dormio is lying scum' or 'Dormio is town tunneling on his D3 case for no good reason'?
Dude, chill out. Why wouldn't Chaore tell the truth? Think about how upset Chaore was when we piled on him for wanting to save Kiro. Does it not make sense that he was upset for being lynched over being correct and doing something he thought was townie?
Schezo for winning the hangmafia can you make sure your partner kills me tonight so I can party in the graveyard with you? -.-
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In any case I think today has already been good for reads concerning Dormio. Waiting for Conqy, Bard and huh what to share what they think with the rest of the class. Bard, if you don't think Dormio is scum perhaps you should work harder to convince the rest of the townies if you don't want us to lose tomorrow.
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Waiting for people to take guesses at round two!
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E
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The dead walk among us!!!
_ _ _ _ _ _
12 alive 5 scum
Dead townies: E
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Zzzzzzz
Come on guys I can't solve them all myself!
T S A
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_ _ _ _ _ _
9 alive 5 scum
Dead townies: E T S A
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I see this game has degenerated into a shouting match. Apologies for my ragey conduct yesterday, but in any case I feel that all these ill vapours are somewhat unbecoming to the overall enjoyment of the game. I venture that it would behoove us all to be a little nicer to each other. So, cheer up, folks! Let's all have fun together~ :yukkuri:
Moving on now.
Also, Conqueror, if you're suggesting that all I do is rip cases off other people.
Scratch out that particular point; it was made in the rush before the topic lock and is inaccurate.
Dormio completely dropped his UK case from D2 to pursue one on Shadoweh, but the really interesting part is that whereas he attacks Shadoweh for the sudden vote switching at deadline, Chaore is completely ignored when he was guilty of something similar. Dormio kept his focus on Shadoweh for the rest of the day, ignoring the other cases on the table and continually delaying an opinion on Chaore, before he clears Chaore as town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664489.html#msg664489) for no clear reason. The sudden attack on Hourai also looks suspiciously like a chainsaw defense in retrospect. Nothing really much to say about his Day 4 activity that others haven't said already. I find Dormio's cases today to be unimpressive, and I believe the relevant parties have responded.
Here is also Chaore's opinion shift on Dormio from D2 to D3. Granted, the initial case was incredibly weak, but the clear is also incredibly weak and ends in a fence sit, so I find it very suspicious.
@Dormio: Let me get that straight, that post was just for your benefit? Not a case at all? So you basically voted for a townie to get lynched, and didn't even leave a case or reasoning why. The only thing you've done is actually post a case after a full game day and a half, and that's really not making me look favorably on you right now. This is 'target player, make case later' at a ridiculous -full game day- length. I'm pretty sure I still want you dead. ##Vote: Dormio
Other than the Kiro wagoneers, Dormio yesterday didn't impress me much at all, and I'm...kind of wondering why the hell he stayed silent through -all- of the going ons at the end of yesterday except for incomprehensible babble, but he honestly does look better than he did when I initially made my case, and seeing as I think Kiro is town, I'm also going to consider his point about how fast the Dormio wagon dissolving. I honestly don't like him still for some reason, but I will admit he has improved and I don't think I'd want to lynch him at this moment.
Now, Bardiche. Bardiche dances around the Chaore wagon at the beginning of D3 by voting Shadoweh instead (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663599.html#msg663599). He softly supports the growing case on Chaore but never places a vote on him, instead pushing a lynch on Shadoweh. This is important because I think that by now Shadoweh is more likely town than not due to interactions with Schezo (although I need another reread to make sure). What I find most suspicious, however, is how Bardiche continually responds to (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663689.html#msg663689) and refutes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663947.html#msg663947)Chaore, but after all that, he's still pushing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664426.html#msg664426) for a Shadoweh lynch over Chaore! This holds until his bizarre behavior at midday, when he decides to put Chaore to L-1 before half the day has passed, which looks like an attempt to cut short discussion by taking advantage of the capt. h modkill lowering the lynch threshold (in retrospect, the votecount would have been reset, but I don't think anyone knew this at the time).
I'll need some extra time to look at pre-D3 Bardiche interactions; that comes later when I'm not exhausted.
...Do I still have to type up a Schezo case? :<
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U
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Conqy: You probably should. I don't think it's a good idea to restrict our suspects right now, moving into a 4 on 2 MYLO.
Might as well look at huh what and Hourai while we're here. Ask Kitten4u if she thinks Schezo really wanted huh what lynched, or if anything in his case changed going into D3. I am thinking.
Schezo: W Q Z DIE MY TOWNIE BRETHERN
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Schezo kills everyone with his goons and wins. >:D
Why would you guess such silly letters?
Moving right along. Who's up for smoothies?
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[01:02:38] <Conq> >Ask Kitten4u if she thinks Schezo really wanted huh what lynched, or if anything in his case changed going into D3. I am thinking.
[01:02:39] <Conq> k
[01:03:15] <Kitten4u> Uh, let me read his post again
[01:03:41] <Kitten4u> I lean yes because of what he said after the fakevig though
[01:05:50] <Conq> What who said? You mean Schezo?
[01:05:57] <Kitten4u> Yeah
[01:06:07] <Kitten4u> Those posts were definitely said to save him
[01:06:45] <Kitten4u> After I fakevigged him (and he died) in JJBM I told him what to do in the event of future fakevigs
[01:06:59] <Kitten4u> He basically went down the list, more or less in order
[01:07:22] <Kitten4u> And HW and Shadoweh where the people he said should get lynched instead of him
[01:07:29] <Kitten4u> Makes me think they are both town
[01:07:47] <Conq> Alright. Should I copy paste?
[01:07:55] <Kitten4u> Hold on
[01:12:40] <Kitten4u> Yeah
[01:12:55] <Kitten4u> His general tunneling on HW makes me think he wants him lynched too
[01:13:26] <Kitten4u> I don't really see any reason to think HW is scum
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Does anyone wish to know how I can make something really cool happen if I live a little longer?
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So, turns out I never got to doing that thing because Higurashi. Will try harder tomorrow evening. Sorry...
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So between the rage, name-calling, and dwi attitudes, the game has become unfun right now.
I am going to go to sleep now and then I'm going to make a long post about Bard, Dormio, and UK. I will however say that Dormio looks the worst to me as of late, and I would support his lynch tomorrow more.
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You're not going to Schezo but okay, don't let us stop you from talking. :toot:
Dormio: Since for some silly reason I still like talking to you, and I can't recall if you clarified it, which one of us is the 'recruited scum' in your cases, UK or I?
Conqy4u: Fair enough, but I got the impression he said Shadoweh and huh what just because that's who his cases were on at the time. There's just something.. invisible about huh whatty right now. I mean, I'm having an easier time remembering Hourai is playing. (hi Hourai!)
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[02:05:00] <Kitten4u> In regards to HW, I really can't see him being scum with Schezo
[02:05:20] <Kitten4u> Schezo is not a super busser in general, and he was basically vote parking
[02:05:30] <Kitten4u> And I really do think that his reaction to the vig suggests that HW and Shadoweh are town
[02:06:04] <Kitten4u> So yeah, I don't see HW scum at all
There's just something.. invisible about huh whatty right now.
Well, maybe if he would actually post the cases he was talking about....
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진짜 너희들 뭐냐....
어우 짜증나. 진짜진짜 짜증나.
근대, 뭐, 우리아직도 Mafia 놀고있지?
Mafia를 놀고있으니까 뭔가써보자.
아, 진짜, 내일까지 Post를 안쓴다그랬는대...
먼저, Schezo 는 Scum 이다. 이것은 당연한거야.
다음, UK 도 Scum 이다. Chaore가 UK를 너무많이 가릴라고있었어.
하고, Chaore 와 Kiro 가 거짓말 안하고있어도 상관없어.
Chaore 가 Rolecop 하나있었잖아. Chaore 가 UK 한태 N1에 Rolecop 를 썼으면? 뭐, 뭐라고할거냐?
Rolecop를 써서, UK 가무었인지 알아보고, N2에 UK를 밤파이어 로만들면돼잖아.
Chaore가 Future Recruit를 가리는거가 너무이상하지않잖아?
하고 UK 가 당연히 이것대해서 뭔가말할거지. (내가 바보라고? 내가 병신이라고?)
~*~Townie Voting Block~*~
도대체 어떻게 ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 가 좋은생각이라고생각하냐?
아. 맞다. 너는 Scum 이지.
~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 는 Scum의 강한무기다.
너가 진짜 Town 이라면 ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ 를 쓸수있는 방법이없잖아.
하고Schezo가 쓴것을 봐보자.
어라? Schezo도 UK를 가릴라고있네.
죽어라, UK.
내가 새로운 사람으로 다시 태어났다!
Shadoweh가 Scum아니다!
근대, Shadoweh가 Scum아니면 누가 마지막 Scum 이냐?
아직몰라. 내일더읽어볼거야.
이것도 별로 쓰고싶지 않았어...
근대 PX짜식때문에 Mafia 를 다시 읽었어...
어우. 너희들얼많아싫은지몰아.
What is the real guys ....
Au annoying. Really, really annoying.
Modern, well, we still have to play Mafia?
Let's write something that you've got to play Mafia.
Oh, really, until tomorrow to orientate the Post uses stuff I did ...
First, Schezo is the Scum. It's natural.
Next, UK is a Scum. Chaore said the UK had too much to cover.
And, Chaore and Kiro not matter even if he's not doing the lying.
I've been there a Chaore Rolecop. N1'm safe in the UK with Chaore aka Rolecop? Well, what do you do?
By writing Rolecop, UK tries to figure out what were with God, N2 only in the UK, he will not get the Vampire's.
Points to the Future Recruit Chaore my thing It's not blow so strange?
And of course the UK is going to speak something about it. (I'm an idiot, I'm gonna fuck you say?)
~ * ~ Townie Voting Block ~ * ~
What the hell ~ * ~ Townie Voting Block ~ * ~ is a good idea do you think?
Oh. That's right. You're Scum.
~ * ~ Townie Voting Block ~ * ~ waiting for the Scum of the strongest draws.
If you are a real Town ~ * ~ Townie Voting Block ~ * ~ you do not have a way to write.
Schezo and let's check it out there to spend.
Huh? Schezo also cover the UK as she is.
Die, UK.
I was born again as a new person!
Shadoweh not the Scum!
Modern, Shadoweh the Scum or who made the last Is Scum?
I'm not sure yet. I'll be reading more tomorrow.
This also did not want to spend much ...
I reread it, because the dude PX modern Mafia.
Au. Earl drove a lot of you do not want to support.
Really, guys?
Ugh, annoyed. You guys are really, really annoying.
But, we are still playing mafia, right?
So, since we're playing mafia, let's write something.
Ugh, even though I said I wouldn't post for the rest of today...
Firstly, Schezo is scum. There is no question about this.
Next, UK is scum. Chaore was being way defensive of you.
And, you know what? It doesn't matter if Chaore was telling the truth.
Chaore had a rolecop, right? What if he rolecopped UK on N1? What? What are you going to say about that?
He used the rolecop, found out whatever UK was, then turned UK into a vampire on N2.
It's not so strange that Chaore would want to cover his future recruit, is it?
And, of course, UK will have something to say about this. (I'm an idiot? I'm a retard?)
~*~Townie Voting Block~*~
HOW THE HELL CAN YOU THINK THAT THE ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ IS A GOOD IDEA?
Oh. That's right. You're scum.
The ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ is an incredibly strong weapon for scum if they can get it started.
And there is no way in hell that it is possible for town to start a ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~.
Oh, let's quickly check out what Schezo did earlier.
What's this? Chaore not mentioning UK aside from a few snippets which defend UK in passing?
Go die, UK.
I HAVE BEEN REBORN AS A NEW MAN!
SHADOWEH IS NOT SCUM!
But, you may ask, if Shadoweh is not the last scum, who is it then?
I don't know yet. I'm going to read more tomorrow.
I didn't really want to write this...
But I read the topic because of that damn PX...
Ugh. You don't know how much I hate all of you.
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tl;dr: I'm a potato.
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@UK: That post about Schezo was because I randomly panicked and went "aaa what if he's a third party and we lose if we lynch him today". Survivor was just the first third party that came to mind. Except now I realize that we'd still survive MYLO if we lynched him and he was survivor, so yeah I don't know what to say other than that I wans't thinking. <_<
@Shadoweh: Don't worry, I'm having trouble remembering that I'm playing too. Blame it on a combination of braindeadness whenever I try to read the thread and a total lack of motivation. I agree with Hourai a lot, except that I felt the game has been somewhat more tense in general since the start of D3 and that kind of atmosphere really sucks up my desire to play mafia when I'm a townie. Basically, I haven't been able to enjoy this game at all since N2 ended. @_@ I'm sorry if I'm fucking things up for both the mods and the players with my sparse activity.
I'm think I'm trying to excuse myself in like every single post I make now.
Also, Conqueror summarized everything I wanted to say about Bard's D3, which makes me wonder what the point of even bothering is at this point. My opinions on Bard and Dormio in general are evident if you read my posts on D3, so... yeah. Here's what I have on most people: - UK is most definitely not original!scum and I honestly can't see her as recruit!scum either. I think recruit!scum UK would have left town floundering rather than suggest the voting block idea, because it doesn't seem to me like the townie cred would be worth having town shaping up its act, especially considering that she could just get exposed and removed from the voting block anyway.
- Shadoweh... eh, I don't particularly consider her a notable target right now, considering that my suspects for both original!scum and recruit!scum had been attacking her, and also how she was somewhat of a counterwagon to Chaore.
- Conqueror seems fairly sensible to me, perhaps because I agree with his opinions on Durrrmio and Bard entirely. Also, those chatlogs+times don't seem forged to me. :V Which is probably gaming the system, but seeing as the mod allowed him to post it... The only think I'm worried about is Chaore's vote on him potentially being last-minute distancing, but what Shadoweh said about Chaore cheerleading the Schezo wagon while voting a townie seems like a reasonable enough explanation for that, in my opinion.
- Hourai doesn't raise alarm bells in my mind just yet, but it seems to me that his overall presence shrunk following N2, and considering that his top two suspects quickly became confirmed scum and we can't really analyze his interactions with them on that day, it's something that I find concerning.
- Dormio is my top pick for recruit!scum. See this post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664716.html#msg664716) His recent rage seems faked to me as well, somewhat.
- I think Bard is the final original!scum due to the way his D3 ended up. Before Chaore started to become a primary target that day, Bard was already glaring at him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663599.html#msg663599) for the end of day shenanigans. However, Bard still ended up jumping on Shadoweh's wagon, and while this is consistant with Bard's past suspicions, it looks a little odd when one considers how Bard did not choose to evolve his Chaore case beyond end-of-day shenanigans at all in his day opener. I would think that Chaore's late-D2 conduct would have at least been enough for Bard to take a serious look at him beyond a quick glance, but all Bard did was continue his D2 case on Shadoweh without going any steps further. I do not like this considering how Chaore is now confirmed scum, because it seems like Bard was just poking Chaore without actually trying to draw significant townie attention in his direction. Haven't gotten around to re-reading his D1-D2 yet, however, I suppose I'll be doing that tomorrow. By memory, though, I think the way he started pushing Shadoweh looks bad in hindsight considering that the case on her became somewhat of a counterwagon to Chaore on D3. His attempts to force an early hammer are still bad and I went over them yesterday.
-
What's this? Chaore not mentioning UK aside from a few snippets which defend UK in passing?
Wait, crap. How did Schezo turn into Chaore? Translating is hard.
-
Also, question.
Do you guys think we should attempt to lynch recruit!scum or original!scum once we reach D5? I mean, we should obviously hunt for both, but which flip would we benifit from more?
-
Scum is scum.
But original would probably be preferable since the recruit is a Mafia Goon.
-
Either way, whoever the scummiest is.
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Woman. If you ask really nicely I'll tell you some reads of what I think of people right now. Same to the rest of you.
And I'm not Chaore~
-
Schezo you have no idea how hilarious reading that with your avatar is. It is cracking me up so hard. M-Mongrels!
Oh wait let me try that nicer. I asked Google Translate to help me get through to you <3
Schezzy-chan-kun-tan-sama-senpai~ Won't you tell me what you think? You know I only fight you because I love <3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is a senior Schezzy Tanchan his opinion, Please tell me somebody why. I have you, I <, I would love to fight you know three
I suggest to get our spirits up tomorrow we all get drunk and lynch whoever comes to mind. :yukkuri: I will be way ahead of everyone on this one. Or we just get drunk when we lynch Schezo tomorrow. We can agree to do that, right? No objections? Cool. I don't see Day 5 lasting that long anyways.
-
We're lynching Schezo today, not tomorrow.
I'm a minor, anyways. As is Dormio, but he's scum, so it doesn't matter.
-
... Unless you mean real life days, in which case :colonveeplusalpha:
-
No no,
Youmu huh what.
We'll lynch me on day 5 since I'm pretty sure I'm flipping town and when I do, (you all will hate me with a passion) we'll lose today so save me for tomorrow.
I suggest we pick someone else to lynch today, like... What an ridiculous mess, I don't have time to deal with all of this! You bore me!
-
Yes I mean irl days silly huh whatters, Schezo is
town so we'll lose the game faster scum so tomorrow whenever is cool with you guys. >.>b
So Bard, your last Anti-Shadoweh supporter appears to have abandoned you, you gonna pick a new target yet? All the cool kids seem to think it's Dormio, do you think he's the scumzors? If you answer me with one of them japanese faces I can't see I swears I'll punch you in that A nose.
-
At school, getting weird looks for watching sites with little girls. Damnit, Shadoweh, you make me look like a freak. Hi teach.
Anyway, how am I the scums for wanting to quickly-- y'know, forget it, I'm not even going to bother figuring that out now because it's a silly argument to hold. "Bard is scum because he was getting sick of the day dragging on". Fantastic. I already went over why Chaore was scum and wanted to explore other options, quite clearly that didn't work out as people were stoked on Chaore+Schezo, I wanted it to end, blahdiblah. Look, I don't even care anymore.
Shadoweh is the scums obvs. Actually, I'm more inclined to look at others now because while Shadoweh is the scums there are people trying to drive home some terribad logic to imply I am the scums, and while there is valid material to use, none really touch on it and instead prefer to push some really weird stuff.
I don't think Dormio is the scumzors, as he is currently the smartest player alive to be posting. In fact I would stake a lot on him being genuine town and if he isn't, man, he sure knows how to tug at my heart strings. I maintain that there is nothing interesting about looking at other targets now because, y'know, we're here to lynch the scums and that works better when the unlikely's been removed.
Consider this: who would be the NK target? HINT: Not the guy we think is scummiest, unless gambit works! Heeeeeey now! Why should we talk about who is scummiest (and thus, who isn't by process of elimination) when NOTHING will change tomorrow save for losing one townie, which only makes it easier to decide who is scum?
Scum can't kill me anyway so it's not like I have anything to fear from them. I'll post my thoughts tomorrow~
-
?\_(ツ)_/? 'sup son, you mad I trollin'?
-
(?̪●)=ε/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ ̿̿ ̿ ̿?? WHAT DID I JUST SAY
That's great for you Bard. :/ Someone else is still gonna die. It's good to discuss it now while that one, unimportant to you townie is still alive. And I think you could be scum for trying to push me, who is confirmed town to myself, over two soon-to-be flipped scum. I personally think that's a pretty good reason and much better then because you wanted to quick-hammer.
-
Consider this for my logic in pushing you: YOU DID THE EXACT SAME GODDAMN THING CONFIRMED SCUM DID. You were accessory or accomplice to Chaore's plot - now why do I find it so hard to swallow that you just happened to be around at deadline and thought that it would be in town's best interest to swap votes around on Kiro when it was certain scum would screw him at night in SOME capacity anyway, and a doc isn't so common a role to count on (and probably wouldn't block MAGIIIIC CONVERSION).
The logic you employed was godawful and furthered scumChaore's agenda.
Honestly. Is it so far-fetched that you're scum? I THINK NOT.
Still not at home.
-
Also I always stay off of popular wagons, which is why I pushed you instead of Chaore at D3 start, and didn't feel like joining the Chaore-iz-teh-scumz bandwagon that was content hanging about being useless.
Now can we lynch Schezo or do you want to sit about being
|\_/| ****************************
/ @ @ \ * * sugoi kawaii *
( > ? < ) * * desu desu *
`??x??? * * yo ne~♪ *
/ O \ ****************************
-
YES
LET'S LYNCH HIM NOW
AT 10AM THAT WOULD BE GREAT
Bard: That's a bad excuse considering your current behaviour towards Schezo. I don't care if he's obvscum, you're still objectively hanging around him providing nothing useful to the day. This theory you're proposing at it's core is that talking is anti-town. I'm resigned to not getting much else out of you until Day 5, but you're doing pretty good for earning a lynch train so if you're town I'd ask you to think of :words: for tomorrow, good ones. My vote's already on Scumzo, when Conqy, huh whatty and Hourai confirm they're ready they can hammer whenever. I assume the potato isn't picky on when we move to lynching tomorrow either. Or UK. Boy it sure is easy to forget UK is playing right now. >_> She should like post something delicious with those ~*gut*~ powers.
-
I have words ready for D5, but only D5. ( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼
You're also misrepresenting my point~ talking isn't anti-town, but right now you're telling scum who are not suspected at all - that's just giving them ideas. Like Edible going "I THINK BARD IS THIRD PARTY" gave me ideas and an excuse in Zombie Mafias. （?∀｀）
-
I THINK BARD IS VOTE COUNT
Schezo - 3 - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Dormio
Not voting: Everyone else
Schezo is at L-2!
You have what, a day and a half left or something?
-
[11:13:10] <Kitten4u> I'm becoming increasingly dissastified with UK
[11:14:34] <Kitten4u> I had initially thought she was town becuase of her position on the Chaore wagon, her efforts to get the town organized and that unvote of Chaore that prevented Schezo from hammering, but her recent stuff is making me question if that clear was premature
[11:14:48] <Kitten4u> It's like she's trying to coast on the cred from that. :/
[11:15:44] <Kitten4u> I'll go reread her when I wake up
[11:16:54] <Kitten4u> You can post this if you want. I'd like to get that read in and discuss it with you when I wake up
-
ZZZ
Are you going to give me a potion of youth now? Is that what this voting me is all about?
-
Hi Shadoweh. How many times have I stated, both privately and publicly that I can only post between 5 PM and 12 AM this week? I pushed a little and got 1 AM last night, and I was pretty tired today. Do you think it looks pretty to pressure me to post when I'm literally not even looking at this hell hole? I do find it hilarious you'd try to pressure me that way. And not in the ha ha way, but in the "hmm" way.
Dormio no longer exists to me.
My amazing gut powers feel strongly that BardxDormio are our scum team. I really, really, wanted to keep drinking the kool aid on Bard but his awful has exceeded my ability to turn a blind eye to him.
@Conquerer: This is kind of a thing that happens when you work 8 hours a day suddenly. I'm using a lot of my willpower for work so I don't have fucktons left for Mafia. And dear fucking god you need willpower to read this...thing. I've basically decided my D3 rereads are probably not happening unless it becomes critical, particularly given how much Bard and Dormio are throwing themselves at being lynched, much like their buddies.
So, tl;dr, unless I have a really good god damn reason to do it, I'm not feeling a reread of any sort. Even a Schezo ISO feels like it will make my eyes bleed. Will stay current on the happenings of today.
-
So Schezo is scum. We should lynch Schezo whenever today.
So UK is scum. We should lynch UK whenever tomorrow.
I believe the last scum is either Bardiche or Huh What...
Waiiiiiiiit a minuuuuuuuuteeeeeeeee.
Gddmt Hourai. Come back here man.
aka. brb reading.
-
Yeah, UK looking for a convenient excuse not to do the D3 reads she's promised also makes me want to lynch her more. Throwing that Shadoweh is now also "Hmmm" makes me happy, but regretably if you think DormioxBard Scum OTP why do you need to toss suspicion on Shadoweh? Need to read the flows?
HEY GUYS, LET'S LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF SCHEZO ALREADY and then UK tomorrow.
お(^o^)
や(^O^)
す(^｡^)
みぃ
(^-^)ﾉﾞ
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I don't need to throw suspicion at Shadoweh. I do need to know why she thought it'd be an amazing idea to call me out for non posting when she knows damn well I'm not here. I'm not sure you're aware of how awkward that feels.
And of course you want to lynch me more, Bard, you know I've got your number. That's ok, I won't crush TOO many bones when I steamroll you tomorrow.
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UK: You seemed suspicious of me last time you posted. Why did you drop me entirely in favor of Bard?
I at least expect some sort of explanation for this beyond gut on D5.
-
It's because I thought about the situation. Several times yesterday you were saying things I agreed with, that made sense from a pro town perspective. Outside of the awful survivor comment, you've been saying things I like today. My wanting you dead started to feel more irrational and like I was clinging to that want I expressed earlier. Of wanting to believe you were scum.
BARD on the other hand. Uh...I'm not even sure I have to explain how awful he is. If I do I'll be a sad kitten. I may break down and do it at some point because I'm going to want to choo choo I'm a train all over his ass. Dormio would be easier probably, but fuck that! I WANNA GET THE AWESOME SCUM LYNCHES!
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Yep, UK, I want to lynch you because you realised my alignment. ( ?∀｀)σ)∀`)
Just the same you want to lynch Dormio and I for realising your alignment.
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Heehee, it's more than that, but it'll suffice for now. It's particularly hilarious how you consider me scum now that I'm suspecting you. When you really hadn't before. You may have telegraphed the LLD mislynch well enough, but you totally fucked up here.
-
My response to you runs along the following lines:
Heehee, it's more than that, but it'll suffice for now. It's particularly hilarious how you consider me scum now that I'm suspecting you. When you really hadn't before. You may have telegraphed the LLD mislynch well enough, but you totally fucked up here.
-
One new thing about Bard that is bugging me a bit.
Why did you softclaim bulletproof on an off-to-the-side comment? You would benifit a lot more from scum attempting to kill you and failing. I think you were possible enough of a NK target that you wouldn't want to randomly softclaim bulletproof, but not likely enough that you would want to gambit claiming bulletproof to ward off scum attacks. I can't see town intent in your softclaim. <_< It just seems falsified to me.
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I haven't claimed bulletproof at all. There's another reason scum can't kill me and I'll fullclaim it tomorrow. ヽ(?▽`)/
Well, good night for now~ lynch Schezo already.
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Well, yes, it's pretty hard for scum to kill you while you're scum. So good of you to claim that for us.
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Yeah uh it's actually the amount of not doing it anytime you're here that's making me call you out.
Thanks for making it sound like I'm crazy though
------------[]
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Anytime Shadoweh. I've been posting a fair bit, I think. Been responding when I have to, being fairly clear in my current suspicions. Better than some people, for certain.
-
You'll need a much better hammer than that if you want to kill me, just so you know.
Though I don't know why any of you want to kill me. For once, I really have nothing to do with this incident.
Yep.
You should just think of me as part of the peanut gallery.
-
Post coming up don't hammer.
-
The following message has been sponsored by Kitten4U International:
Dear Diary,
I'm trying to figure out how much of what I think of UK is me being irritated at her play and how much of it is her actually being scummy. I really hate her playstyle, so it's becoming rather difficult for me to tell. @_@ So because she's being a jerk and making me doubt my reads again, I'm going back to square one.
Bardiche: Scummy, could definitely be scum.
Dormio: Scummy, could definitely be scum.
Schezo: Die plz.
Shadoweh: Probably town due to interactions with Schezo. I don't really see the point in pushing him when Chaore was under more pressure. Was also on Schezo's list of people to look at once he died, which also makes me think she's town. Hat vore, etc.
Hourai: I'm still pretty sure he's town. I haven't really had a problem with his content. I don't really see the advantage in superbussing like that and I don't think Schezo and Chaore would have the guts to recruit him.
UK: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! In all seriousness, I'm really disliking her recent posts.
HW: More hat vore if he flips scum. I don't think he was original scum, and I can't see Schezo tunneling on him, recruiting him and then tunneling on him some more.
Okay, so my reads aren't totally shot. It's just that now I have three suspects instead of two...and one of them is definitely town. I HATE EVERYTHING! I can't even use any amount of process of elimination on this because I can see them all as buddies with each other. @_@
UK, what happened between this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664521.html#msg664521)and now?
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Schezo claimed, I realized my gut was me trying to justify hating HW as much as I could, and I've felt better about your posts today, while feeling worse about Bard's. Sound about right?
-
:|
Okay then.
-
I wish I could flip scum just to get vore from you. I'm guessing that answer wasn't satisfactory for you either.
So UncertainKittan, tomorrow, when we're in MYLO and have no obvscum to hammer, I'd appreciate it if you read over, say, Schezo. And Chaore. Those would be neat things. My leftover alcohol got disposed of and I didn't feel like a new cup so I am depressingly sober and rereading right now.
I cannot be bestowing of the hammer, it's up to you. I supose I should ask what you think of Dormio's latest post, the one half-written in Google Translate.
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I'm ready to put Schezo at L-1 later tonight.
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Oh, and who is that directed at?
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The last sentence is for you Conqy, sorry ^^;
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@Shadoweh: I didn't bother reading it. If he's going to post garbage, I'm going to treat it as such. That is not an acceptable post, and does not merit reading. Anyway, I can read the intent of today clearly enough. I might do the ISOs at some point. Certainly not tonight and you know why.
-
Not too impressed by Dormio's Google Translate post. Leaving aside the fluff, it looks like he's saying UK is scum because of ~ * ~ Townie Voting Block ~ * ~. I may not like the idea of the voting block, but it's completely true that at the time of suggestion, town was floundering so much that something had to be done, and the voting block could have been a powerful town tool if it had ever taken off. The rolecop recruit theory sounds interesting but boils down to night action WIFOM. The rest of Dormio's observations seem valid enough.
Basically, better than his other content posts, but still unimpressive.
Also friendship and rainbows and unicorns.
-
Okay, I need to go out somewhere, and I'll post again when I get back.
But I just want to say one thing.
Hi UK. Everything you say is garbage. You are also scum.
Because if that is seriously what you're going to reduce me to, I don't give a shit any more about what you say, scum.
If you are not lynched tomorrow, I am going to scream so loud you don't even know.
Cut by Conqueror's friendship and rainbows and unicorns.
I'm sorry. I have seen the light. UK is not garbage. UK is far below that.
-
Let's not make Pesco come in here and modkill everyone.
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/me snickers
At least I didn't make a practically unreadable post because I thought it would be funny. In fact, I daresay you personally attacked me there with verbiage I used to attack your post, and not you. Naughty naughty ^-^.
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Don't make me get out the hose on you two.
I don't think we're getting anymore out of today and instead of letting you snipe at each other some more, let's just move onto Day 5.
Dormio, baiting UK is not the answer to all accusations, if she is the scum go back to the beginning and remake of the case on her. Leave TOWNIE VOTING BLOCK out because you're getting distracted by it. Point out whoever you think the secondo scum is.
UK, stop baiting him back. Especially when your own content has been bad enough that every living player has commented on it. Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
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[22:30:10] <Kitten4u> ...Eh it's worth a shot
[22:30:22] <Kitten4u> Can you ask UK to humor us for a minute and post actual cases on why people are scum?
[22:30:41] <Kitten4u> And perhaps actually respond to the cases on her without insulting the attackers?
Cut by Shadoweh saying something similar.
-
You're not getting cases today. I also see no legitimate cases on me that I haven't answered. Hourai comes closest and my response to him does not contain insults. How about you organize everything you see as a case against me and tell me what I haven't answered, rather than sniping at me from the sidelines, K4U?
@Shadoweh: Eye of the beholder of course. Whether my content is "bad" or not, it's at least been readable. Which is more than can be said for the magical google translate post.
-
>_>
Well, I think I'm just about ready to end the day.
Is there a particular end of day time that is best for everyone? I'm figuring midnight EST, or in 1.5 hours.
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Interesting response. So you want me to respond to the "cases" on me, something I've been doing fairly consistently, but refuse to show me said "cases"? Is there a particular reason for that?
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[22:45:31] <Conq> What should I link? Unless I'm supposed to type up something new. :<
[22:46:02] <Kitten4u> She already knows where they are. She has indeed been responding to them, but she hasn't been saying anything beyond "this isn't worth responding to"
[22:46:38] <Kitten4u> I'm just getting increasingly frustrated with her behavior
[22:46:53] <Kitten4u> There's no point in wasting our time if she's going to act like this
[22:47:36] <Kitten4u> I gave her a chance to prove herself and she refused it
[22:48:09] <Kitten4u> Unfortunately, I still can't tell if it's UK is UK or if she's scum and I am kind of pissed off she's refusing to help me figure this out
[22:49:06] <Kitten4u> So I'm deeming it not worth my time
-
If you really wanted me to "prove" myself, you'd explain how I HAVEN'T responded to cases. Because I've actually given fairly clear responses OUTSIDE OF "this isn't worth my time". I've responded to Hourai's case, Bard doesn't have a case, and I've even countered Dormio's main point against me several times before giving up. Please, tell me what I'm missing here.
-
Cool, my gut says UK is scum let's lynch her tomorrow. I have now provided as much reasoning for my cases on the two proven scum as you have.
I'm not interested in this stonewalling game you're playing. Do you think Conqueror is scum? Are you going to keep treating everyone who looks at you like a criminal? Your case on Dormio right now is 'he doesn't like the voting block'. Okay, so the person who's gut playstyle you're advocating doesn't like them either and thinks alliances are awful. Can you explain to me how that's scummy?
-
Actually, that playstyle specifically says that town unity is important and that alliances made within the game aren't bad, it's the ones that use meta and bullshit.
Secondly, Dormio not liking the voting block makes him a little scummy, but there are a fair number of other reasons he's scum. I'd suggest looking at his behavior yesterday, when I started getting a bad feeling from him.
Thirdly, go ahead and try to lynch me. I'd love to see you pull it off, Shadoweh.
Fourthly, Conquerer/K4U probably aren't scum, but this cute little game they're trying to play is awful. I'm telling them how they can make it townie. They're refusing. C'est la vie I guess.
And Fifthly my case on Schezo was that he CLAIMED scum :P. Unless you meant BardxDormio proven scum.
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You shouldn't joke about things when I can count at least three possible votes for you not counting me, UK. This is not Mafia History Mafia, I can get you lynched if I try. I'm simply trying to figure out why you're really doing this. I'm blind, what are these other reasons he's scum? I want to hear them from YOU, because it's YOUR opinion I'm unclear on. You believe in townie transparancy, so please, don't be defensive, vague, and confrontational, make yourself clear to me.
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For once, I really have nothing to do with this incident.
What part of, don't lynch me I'm not killing you people aren't you all getting?
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I'll take your advice under advisory. It's not happening tonight. If a hammer occurs while I'm gone, I'll consider putting something together overnight. I'd put a caveat saying "assuming I'm not killed", but I get the distinct impression that's unlikely. And if it doesn't occur while I'm gone, I'll see what I come up with after work.
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Com'on people, we need to be unvoting Schezo and voting the real scums.
-
Com'on people, we need to be unvoting Schezo and voting the real scums.
AGREED.
##Unvote
...Wait.
##Vote: Schezo
##Unvote
I never got any feedback on hammer time. :<
-
Fortunately you're not in danger of being hammered today. Please have something ready for tomorrow. Gut reads happen for a reason, you have to be able to point out the behaviours that give you five-alarms in your gut. Otherwise feelings are just feelings.
Sorry Schezo but we are hammering you in the face. Any time now is good for me.
-
##Vote: Schezo
And thus Schezo was sexily hammered at the stroke of midnight.
Except that's L-1, not the hammer.
-
First of all.
That freaking ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ was scum motivated.
How can you people not see this?
Whatever.
Moving on.
Chaore was being far too defensive of UK.
So much so that he, in fact, defended her twice for the same thing in post #328 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661632.html#msg661632).
Zakeri's post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661643.html#msg661643) was completely disregarded by UK. Later UK decided to finally respond to Zakeri with "Give it the fuck up Zak, you have nothing on me and you're wasting fucktons of effort not telling us ANYTHING about your intent besides really wanting me lynched. I tire of it." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662181.html#msg662181)
Chaore #161 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659877.html#msg659877) ignores some things I said in order to randomly defend UK.
Schezo has also defending UK in passing for whatever reason.
Yes, I have said all this before.
Do you know why I'm reiterating myself?
Because, like every single other thing I've said, UK has simply ignored everything and called me an idiot.
Also, you need to go to work. Big fucking deal. That doesn't turn you into a complete fucking vegetable.
I had finals going on at the same time during the first half of the game. That didn't stop me from trying to contribute to town.
OH BUT WAIT. YOU'RE CONTRIBUTING TO TOWN. BARD AND I ARE SCUM BECAUSE GUT. RIGHT.
AND EVERYBODY THAT SAYS BAD THINGS ABOUT YOU IS A RETARD AND THEREFORE EVERYTHING THEY SAY IS INVALID.
No, we're not having the rest of that.
-
All right, that's enough. If people continue to treat each other like dirt we'll start handing out RPG bans.
This is everyone's final warning.
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Oh, okay.
More important, the problem with the things you listed are they fall in two categories: A) Not scummy, and B) Things I didn't do.
I'm not sure what reaction you expect out of me. Chaore did things, oooh. I can't really speak for him, now can I? The best I can say is that Chaore targetting me makes me being scum before D3 highly unlikely. Whether I'm scum AFTER D3 is debatable, though I'll note I could have easily, yanno, not voted Chaore in the first post I made and stuck the fuck to it, to the point of trying to form a townie voting block to lynch him.
The ad homs are hilarious.
-
Hammer, shut up.
##Vote: Schezo
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I like how you decide to ignore the part where I say that you've been not responding to anything lately.
-
End of Day 4 VOTE COUNT
Schezo - (5) - Shadoweh, Bardiche, Dormio, Conqueror, Schezo
Not voting: Everyone else
Schezo was Lynched. He was Remilia Scarlet, Scum Godmother/Recruiter.
During N2, you must select a person you want to be recruited into the scum faction. That person will be a mafia goon and a vampire from D3 onwards. This ability is one-shot.
On N1 and N3 onwards, you are a godmother with normal abilities (e.g if you are investigated, the person gets a 'town' result). You lose this abilitiy if you are the one conducting the NK, however.
Whenever votes are tied up between you and someone else at the end of the day, you will always win the coinflip.
You have 24 hours for the night.
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PARUPARUPARUPARU
Shadoweh playing as Parsee Mizuhashi, Vanilla Townie Jealous of Other People's playable status in DotS powers, died overnight.
You have 72 hours
PARUPARUPARUPARU
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I've had another day to calm down and think some more about this game.
I actually did get quite pissed off during this game, and so I need to apologize to all of you.
I was letting myself get angry at UK's bait, and baiting UK in return. And then rage leads to more rage, and ragefests are no fun for anyone.
Not fun for people watching, not fun for the people involved. So I'm sorry about that.
So, let us be of good cheer and have fun during the remainder of this game and future games together. :)
Anyway, to content we go~
I wrote my post in Korean and ran it through google translate because I needed to cheer myself up yesterday and that was the easiest way to do so whilst still making an effort towards mafia.
If you look at the final section of the post, you'll see that the post was written properly there. I'd appreciate it if you didn't call my efforts "garbage".
I wasn't looking for reactions from you, because you're scum.
Let me ask everyone else:
How can the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ possibly be town motivated?
What purpose does it serve other than demotivating town, and giving scum safe opportunities to jump onto wagons?
Also, calling everybody stupid is really demotivating.
Oh yeah, demotivating town is scummy.
Also, if we're going to talk about attitude switches, remember one of my accusations about UK that I conceded in D2, the one about dismissing cases on her as being stupid and nothing else?
Guess what UK's been doing throughout D3&4.
Also, UK stopped making cases in D3. Like seriously.
UK opens up D3 with an excuse (splitting people into confirmation active/non-active) to post random gut cases.
And UK gets a gut read of scum on Chaore in this, after pretty much having not mentioned Chaore at all during D1&2.
So, UK has this magical gut read on Chaore that Chaore is scum.
If UK is so sure that Chaore is scum, UK should be able to make a case on him, right?
Well apparently not. Because the only other mentions of Chaore until Chaore outright states scum is that we should vote Chaore for no reason.
Like, literally. UK provides no reasoning whatsoever for why Chaore is scum, other than saying that Chaore is scum.
And then Chaore claims scum and UK goes on and on about how UK was right! UK can catches the scum!
You sure can, UK! You can catch the scum, all of them! Because you know who all the scum are! Comes with being scum yourself, you know.
Oh, and ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ is scummy. And only scum would suggest it. But it's okay, because you're scum.
And for how much you want to defend yourself, you arguments against me all boil down to:
1) You're stupid and you're making no sense.
2) No you're scum and therefore what you say is invalid.
3) The ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ is in no way scum motivated.
4) You can't use connections to tie me to the other scum because it was their actions, not mine.
I mean, in regards to 4, you didn't even deny it. You just said "Chaore did things, oooh. I can't really speak for him, now can I?" (#1042)
##Vote UncertainKitten
Anyway, finding the last scum.
I think the last scum is either Bardiche or huh what.
Can somebody explain to me why I get the impression that nobody is really looking at Bardiche at all?
It's like Shadoweh said, he's barely been contributing to town at all since the scum claims.
"Talking more isn't going to MAGICALLY PRODUCE scum results ─ because believe it or not, sitting around with confirmed scum in your midst isn't that motivating to looking beyond the obvious wine in front of us." (#947)
How about leading by example?
Talking more doesn't magically produce scum results, nothing does (bar various roles). Not talking at all is going to get even less done though.
My head goes round and round and round in circles trying to discern which one is the scum.
#681 huh what pushes the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea, and that going against it is scummy.
Also continues to push the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea in #975.
Like Schezo and Chaore, he also defended UK for being on the LLD wagon.
In other words, he's being overly defensive of UK. And I believe UK to be scum. So yeah.
Right now I'm leaning more towards huh what being the scums though.
Also, Hanged Hourai posting. That would be a nice thing to see.
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First things first. It's pretty clear I've been a total bitch this game and I owe all of you apologies. But in particular, I owe Dormio, PX, and Zak apologies for my awful early game behavior to them, and Dormio another apology for my continued sniping of him. I let my emotions get the better of me because of how I perceived the cases on me, then it spiralled out of control when Dormio started sniping back. I probably should have realized then that he was fraying but I just got more angry myself. So, I hope you accept my apologies, but I certainly understand if you don't. I have to get that out there though.
Now, this is awkward because Dormio is still the recruit scum. And yes, I'm posting a case why. Magically on D3 he attacks Shadoweh (WITH BARD), completely dropping me, something rather untelegraphed at all. Further, his opposition to the ~*~town voting block~*~ seems to stem a lot from the fact he wasn't in it. He picks up the case on me D4 again for really rather obscure reasons. I'm not going to rehash the town voting block argument again, but it's fairly clear how wrong he is. The rest of his case against me stems from stuff Chaore did, or in some cases didn't do regarding me, but completely ignores Chaore targetting me N1 with actions that would be far better used on a townie. His proposal is that Chaore would lie about this, but if you look at D3...if I was Chaore's original scumpartner, wouldn't I...uh...be doing well enough WITHOUT Chaore indirectly casting doubt on my townie status by claiming he targetted me? If Chaore was lying, I think it's more to set me up as the RECRUIT rather than to try to protect a scumbuddy. Perhaps you could elucidate how a hypothetical Chaore lying protects me, Dormio?
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Now Bard. Ohhhhhh Bard. You're fun. The worst part of your D1 feels like your case on Kiro. Why yes, I did the same thing. I'm just not sure I feel the same...intent behind your case. From what I can tell, it's parroting points I already made (i.e. the Weird != scummy thing, which is pretty much the entirity of your case) and then some "rage" at Kiro disrespecting the game. There's also a lot of soft pushes on people without much commitment out of LLD. In particular, what made you vote LLD over Schezo despite poking them for about fairly similar levels of suspicious activity? Interesting choice there, I think ^-^. I also note a lot of defense of Dormio when I point out his lack of effort, only giving as the Dormio wagon becomes more popular. ON TO D2!
The "regret nothing" post is awful. Just...awful. The "proposal to lynch Schezo on meta reasons" feels really awkward in hind sight. Fair amount of noise complaining about how people treat cases, and then a vote for Shadoweh that's pretty much silly. More importantly, it's INSTEAD OF DORMIO. I'll also note Chaore has not even been mentioned by Bard at all at this point. It's late D2. You will not find Chaore's name in any of Bard's posts. ...I...what were you even doing at the end of the day? It seems like you had a "healthy" suspicion of HW and voted Kiro instead because...???. That looks terrible.
We all know how D3 went. Bard refuses my town voting block because it has Shadoweh in it, AND WANTS TO VOTE SHADOWEH OVER CONFIRMED SCUM CHAORE. Note this is about the first time Bard has ever said the word Chaore. And then when Chaore claims scum and Bard tries to eat the day. Fairly self explanatory.
And then D4 everyone was awful. The continued pushing of Shadoweh on what amounts to conspiracy theories is utterly amazing.
So, tl;dr, BardxDormio scum OTP
NOW! We have two things to discuss. One, it's MYLO, do we massclaim? Two, it's MYLO, do we vote No Lynch? TUNE IN TO THESE IMPORTANT QUESTIONS TODAY!
AAAAAAAAAND DORMIO VOTES IN MYLO!
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RE: Chaore lying,
And, you know what? It doesn't matter if Chaore was telling the truth.
Chaore had a rolecop, right? What if he rolecopped UK on N1? What? What are you going to say about that?
He used the rolecop, found out whatever UK was, then turned UK into a vampire on N2.
It's not so strange that Chaore would want to cover his future recruit, is it?
Also, no.
I'm opposed to the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ because I cannot see how it can possibly be town motivated.
But either way, I've made my case. I believe UK is scum. It's up to the rest of you. Do you agree with me?
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Also of hilarious note after reading Dormio's post. We made the same post. Apology+accusing the other of being scum+Bard suspicion. His also includes HW suspicion, but I don't feel that works well given who we have as flipped scum. Just a little bit of humor in this bleak game.
@Dormio cut: But that's my point. If Chaore were lying about targetting me with me as his original scumbuddy, his flip would be instantly making me incredibly likely to be the recruit, and still extremely lynchable, when prior to this I was not. tl;dr Chaore lying only makes sense if I'm town. Note that the inverse is true. (That him telling the truth makes me scum, it just makes it more likely I'm recruit scum). No one counterclaimed targetting me so either it was a second scum and Chaore was lying, or he did indeed target me.
Anyway, I've made my cases as well. As a matter of fact, as I said yesterday, I plan to gun for Bard today, assuming we do not go no lynch.
Why are you voting in mylo again, Dormio?
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Because I am certain of myself in that you are scum.
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Also of hilarious note after reading Dormio's post. We made the same post. Apology+accusing the other of being scum+Bard suspicion. His also includes HW suspicion, but I don't feel that works well given who we have as flipped scum. Just a little bit of humor in this bleak game.
Huh. That is pretty hilarious.
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That's so touching. Just because *you* are certain of yourself does not give you the right to risk town's chances of winning on a careless vote. That is, if you were town. Voting is mylo/lylo shouldn't be townie behavior. Normally I'd say it isn't but...uh...MotK history begs to differ. But it is anti town.
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MYLO means that town needs two votes on town for scum to pile on and get the lynch.
But I don't believe this to be an issue, because I think you're scum and you won't hop onto your own wagon. Except maybe to hammer.
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MYLO means that town needs two votes on town for scum to pile on and get the lynch.
Unless I can't math, which I probably can't.
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MYLO with six people means that town needs two town votes on town for scum to pile on and get the lynch.
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It's slightly safer in MYLO, true. But Townies Are Silly principle dictates that you're being careless at best. Fortunately, I don't think you're a townie, but I feel the need to point out that your vote is anti-town, which combined with the rest of your behavior is not a place you want to be.
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EBWOP: Also, thoughts on massclaim now that we don't have a claimed scum to lynch?
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Well, fortunately for me, I don't think that you're a townie either.
So it's up to everyone else to decide what they think.
And I have no idea what to think about a massclaim.
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I think No lynch would help us a lot more because it would force scum to eliminate another suspect, decreasing the chance of us losing endgame to a townie having a sudden bout of paranoia. :s
I can't make a full post right now because I've been TF2ing with friends for like... the past few hours, including when the day started. But I'll try to do so tomorrow morning.
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Also, UK and Dormio, seriously. Just because the mods don't want you to be actively aggressive towards eachother doesn't mean you should start putting passive-aggressive jabs towards eachother in your posts instead. <_< It's equally annoying to read, honestly.
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UK is scum. I can say this with absolute certainty. UK is scum.
First of all, her case is an obvious matter of calculated telegraphing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659100.html#msg659100), see? Of course, I'm not serious about that, but it's important to consider that she later proposes the townie block and names me as one of its eligible members, despite being confident here that she'll catch me as scum later on.
Her proper-game opening is this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659433.html#msg659433) with a promise of a re-read/content later on, but she follows this up with another promise (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659523.html#msg659523), while conveniently coasting D1 up to that point by cheerleading a PX wagon and placing no votes whatsoever. She finally does place a vote as a placeholder (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659802.html#msg659802), which tells us nothing about who's scum yet. She does follow it up by calling Kiro scum, but why place a placeholder vote rather than a genuine vote?
Calling it a placeholder is important, because it lends flexibility. I might change my vote later, but I'll already place it just in case. No one'll blame her for changing a placeholder, right? :)
She does change her vote after that promised content read, after first posting Wall of Observations, she changes to Dormio (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660041.html#msg660041) for a case that boils down to, "I don't like his case on me". Important to note is that Dormio was already receiving fire, whereas Kiro was losing it. She stated in an earlier post that Shadoweh, Bard, PX and someone are probably town, noting that she didn't want to be stuck with PX all game, but later backtracks (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660199.html#msg660199) to say that she's not sure what to make of me. This strange jumping around is notable in that she confirms to herself that I am town on D3, then declares I am scum on D4 when I suspect her of being scum. Because it was untelegraphed. Recall how I refused your townie voting block saying that I'd only do it if I were survivor? It's because the voting block supports scum.
Her jump on LLD (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660466.html#msg660466) is explained (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660472.html#msg660472) for a need of answers, same as mine. Between here and her vote on Dormio, UK has taken no steps to convince anyone Dormio is scum, and hardly even mentions him. It's like he no longer exists to her.
She doesn't push LLD particularly hard, but keeps raising the point about LLD needing to answer questions and how not doing so is scummy. I like to think my case on LLD was a rather bit more elaborate, UK's feels rather lazy in retrospect.
On Day2 UK goes back to voting Dormio (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg661348.html#msg661348), but again she spends no effort on why Dormio is scum. There's just no cases, and for someone who declares cases are scummy she's doing an awful lot of her best to avoid looking scummy by her own words... except she declared this on D3. Maybe a cover-up for her previous lack of cases? I think so!
When she changes her vote again, it's flexible (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662184.html#msg662184) between Dormio and PX, which she needs because the PX and Dormio wagons showed that PX was gaining more votes. She just swapped to the more popular wagon citing she wanted his flip, not that she thought PX was more scummy. I hopefully don't need to point out how scummy it is. She mentions Dormio's case more concretely (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662274.html#msg662274) later on, but it mostly boils down to "I don't like his case on me", which isn't necessarily scummy so much as bad town play.
Dormio has raised valid points though, as far as I care. She responds to him twice but neither response is interesting to note in this writing. However, this is (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662627.html#msg662627): all wagons are bad, but I'm staying on PX who I declared as definite scum because major lynch information flip reads! Yeah! There's nothing scummy about not even TRYING to get a lynch on who you think is scummiest. She thinks HW is scummiest, but refuses to jump on it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662636.html#msg662636), which clearly shows UK isn't willing to vote HW to lynch!
HWxUK scum OTP. Calling it now.
Oh hey, another thing where she says she'd rather lynch HW (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663640.html#msg663640), thus not owning up to lynching town!PX. Her vote also assisted Chaore in swinging the lynch off of Kiro, so like Shadoweh, accessory. Unlike Shadoweh, UK is actual scum.
Also gut (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664432.html#msg664432) on Chaore is all it ever amounts to. :U You want to accuse me of swinging the vote away from Chaore? I wasn't the one who jumped on him with just 'gut'! Moreover, I steered clear of it because it was A) an evident popular wagon and B) I thought it would be useful to discuss more first, but I was obviously terribly wrong because MotK town rolls over and waits for the sweet salvation of death when they have scum. :U
The one time UK thinks someone should vote her is when it's capt h (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664239.html#msg664239), which boggles me why she'd encourage him to vote her. Especially considering UK's earlier reactions and present reactions to being called scum.
Since scum UK is saying HW is scum, Bard and Shadoweh are town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664437.html#msg664437), it makes me wonder whether she was totally right on this. I know this won't endear the case to HW, but would it anyway?
The funny part is that she considers HW scum but still fairly considers his objections to the town voting block (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664468.html#msg664468), and continues to be cordial with him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664486.html#msg664486) while never raising how he is scum or showing that she honestly feels he's scum. Also note how she tries to deny the MyLo. Also the hilarious bit is when she mentions Dormio again, as townest (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664521.html#msg664521). :awesome:
There is some posturing about how a townie voting block would destroy scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666220.html#msg666220), which again is just toting her own horn about how pro-town she is being! If she really were, we'd not need to raise that point!
And Dormio returns to being scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666261.html#msg666261), for now disliking the voting block. Also she doesn't want to lynch scum!Dormio despite raising it so much (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666811.html#msg666811), probably because she knows I caught more fire.
Vote and roleclaim in next post!
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So remember me saying scum can't kill me? It's because I'm Vanilla Town~!, and because I was posting minimalistically on D3/4 and am a good target for a mislynch! :D Now then, process of elimination:
Hanged Hourai
Dormio
UK
HW
Bard
Bard is Town. Dormio is probably Town. Hanged Hourai is Uncertain. UncertainKitten is certainly scum. Huh What is Uncertain. This narrows it for me a lot!
Like Dormio I DON'T FEAR THE QUICKLYNCH, but I guess I'll hold off on voting to give you guys some time to digest, IDK, IDC.
Problem? Deal with it. :derp:
Also, in UK's case, note her accusation that I never named Chaore until D3, then go over her posts and mentions of Chaore as scum. :U Problem?
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tl;dr UK is scum because she hasn't pushed any of her targets, keeps swinging between reads on people, pushed a bad concept on D3 while toting it as pro-town, and refused to lynch her scummiest read on D2 for the sake of a "majority lynch" and complete absence despite promising to be present 1H to deadline!
She's also scum for ignoring cases on her and being beliggerent instead, and making a terrible LyLo case while proposing we hold off on lynching. Swimmingly fantastic proposal, but I seriously do not want to spend more tie on this game than is necessary just hanging around doing jack frost for scumhunting like everyone's been doing.
Also forgot Conq was playing, imagine that.
So then guys, who do you think is scum? Top scum picks first! What do you think about UK scum and why is this false if you think Dormio and I are wrong?
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Also, yes, TOTES SCUMMY to not want to abstain on lynching despite it improving our odds of lynching scum (we stand to mathematically gain 10% odds just randomly voting) because it ALSO REMOVES TOWN FROM THE GAME and permits scum to select their endgame. I do not want to give scum their picks of endgame and am fairly confident we can lynch scum today, that I would rather not risk scum night shenanigans to fuck with our chances of victory.
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Don't forget about me bro. :ohdear:
Full rereads and cases on every single player in the game will come later tonight, which should still leave plenty of time.
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Pesco is telling me to post again, so here's another post. :U
Clearly UK using Shadoweh's death as something to hold against me (Bard wanted to vote confirmed!Town Shadoweh over confirmed!Scum Chaore) is the surest sign that it's a calculated move from scum's part to get a mislynch in me instead of risking getting lynched by town today!
?The worst part of your D1 feels like your case on Kiro. Why yes, I did the same thing. I'm just not sure I feel the same...intent behind your case. From what I can tell, it's parroting points I already made (i.e. the Weird != scummy thing, which is pretty much the entirity of your case) and then some "rage" at Kiro disrespecting the game.
Which is quite an interesting part of UK's "case", as her push on LLD was parroting me, and the entire "intent" business is too vague and obscure to build things on if you can't elucidate what this is! And why, yes, I rage at Kiro for playing anti-Bardiche instead of playing Mafia. There's nothing scummy about thinking that someone is a dick when he's acting like a dick. :U Are you for real about holding that against me now?
?In particular, what made you vote LLD over Schezo despite poking them for about fairly similar levels of suspicious activity? Interesting choice there, I think ^-^.
As I so elegantly pointed out in my wall of text post, you were there with me on the LLD wagon! So, question back at you: if you think Schezo had fairly similar levels of suspicious activity and still voted LLD, why should we not vote to lynch you for that?
The "regret nothing" post is awful. Just...awful.
How is it awful?
I'll also note Chaore has not even been mentioned by Bard at all at this point. It's late D2. You will not find Chaore's name in any of Bard's posts
Fantastic, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662604.html#msg662604) you mention you don't know how to feel about the Chaore case and listed him as fairly town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662184.html#msg662184) a few posts back. Why, again, should we vote me for it, but not you?
Bard refuses my town voting block because it has Shadoweh in it, AND WANTS TO VOTE SHADOWEH OVER CONFIRMED SCUM CHAORE.
Chaore was not confirmed at that point. （?∀｀）
Note this is about the first time Bard has ever said the word Chaore. And then when Chaore claims scum and Bard tries to eat the day.
Actually no, Chaore claimed scum after that, and I'm fairly sure I dropped his name before (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663689.html#msg663689), as well as in my first post of the day. I voted him before the claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664473.html#msg664473), which I admit is because people were stoked on him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664479.html#msg664479), but that is nothing truly worth consideration as "scummy"; Bardiche never jumps on the easy and popular wagons first thing in the morning.
┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ Honestly the case on me is seven kinds of silly and I don't get why I'm replying to it. If you want to accuse someone of trying to find a counter-wagon to the Chaore wagon, look to Huh What who has been doing everything he can to avoid giving opinions on anything for a while, including the Chaore case.
You guys just insist on lurking don'cha. エェェ(?д｀)ェェエ
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Also @MOD: Please confirm we're in MyLo and NOT LyLo. Last day we had MyLo in the title and someone pasting Affinity saying it's LyLo, which is it now?
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It's MYLO.
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I really shouldn't be posting since I should be working but I was bored. And I see Bard attacking me, about as predicted. Is there anything in particular you'd like me to answer, Bard? I'll answer any questions. I honestly don't feel like reading walls of texts right now and getting into point by point since that usually misses...well, the point. Can you concisely tell me why you think I'm scum, is basically what I'm asking.
Oh, also, you're wrong about the math. Even number mylo is actually WORSE odds of lynching scum voting randomly. It's simple math. Right now it's 2:4. Randomly voting means a 33% chance of lynching scum. If we no lynch and let scum kill, it becomes 2:3, eliminates a suspect since guess what! No one is an obvious kill at this point, excepting maybe Conquerer. In 2:3, you have a 40% chance of voting scum. I'll note that Bard's misrepresentation of the facts is q
@HW: What the hell are you talking about with "passive aggressive jabs"? I see nothing of the sort from me OR him.
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I like to assume people don't vote themselves, UK, so it's 2 scum, 3 town for everyone to pick, which is a 2/5 odds of lynching scum, which means we're at 40% of hitting scum right now for any given person voting who he thinks is scummiest, assuming he does not want to vote himself.
And no, you'll get to read the wall of text to undermine why you're scum. No laziness at MyLo!
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I really shouldn't be posting since I should be working but I was bored. And I see Bard attacking me, about as predicted. Is there anything in particular you'd like me to answer, Bard? I'll answer any questions. I honestly don't feel like reading walls of texts right now and getting into point by point since that usually misses...well, the point. Can you concisely tell me why you think I'm scum, is basically what I'm asking. I'm responding to your shorter posts now though.
You're wrong about the math. Even number mylo is actually WORSE odds of lynching scum voting randomly. It's simple math. Right now it's 2:4. Randomly voting means a 33% chance of lynching scum. If we no lynch and let scum kill, it becomes 2:3, eliminates a suspect since guess what! No one is an obvious kill at this point, excepting maybe Conquerer. In 2:3, you have a 40% chance of voting scum. I'll note that Bard's misrepresentation of the facts is quite intriguing.
Re: D2 Behavior: Because Oversleep Is Scummy. Are you seriously going to hold that against me? Because that just sounds desperate. Secondly, it's misrep to say that I refused to vote my scummiest read. He was not a viable lynch by the time I went to bed. Are you telling me that I should have parked my vote on an unlikely lynch wagon, given the chance that I'd oversleep?
As for responses to my case. I wasn't parroting you on LLD. Rather, I took some of your points, but I also started with my own when she started becoming obstinate. Honestly, we both were pressuring her for not answering around the same time, and I don't really feel like that was a parroting situation since we were both posting at once. However, I initially got on her case when I thought she was guilty of her own scumtell, something you did NOT mention (though admittedly, I was incorrect.)
Yes, the Kiro point is serious. You wanted to lynch Kiro regardless of alignment. That's usually a scummy move! The fact that it was literally the ONLY other part of your Kiro case, beyond what I had already pointed out, was awful. Secondly, I never said anything about Schezo. You said something about Schezo in the EXACT SAME POST you voted LLD. You were throwing about equal amounts of suspicion at both of them. Why LLD over Schezo then? Also, trying to turn the question around on me was a misrep, and yet another scummy point against you.
The regret nothing post basically felt like preemptively deflecting the awful of lynching LLD. As if you were fairly sure people would get on your case about it. That's a scummy thought process.
Chaore: I still actually MENTIONED Chaore. And when I was responding to Hourai, the feeling town feeling had gone away because my gut had kicked in. So again, misrep. You seemed to be intentionally avoiding even mentioning the guy, and then you avoided voting him D3 because you were just SO CERTAIN of Shadoweh. As for him not being confirmed scum at that point, no, he wasn't. I apologize for the lack of clarity there. I meant that we know now that Chaore is scum. You wanting to vote Shadoweh over him pretty much means you were strongly pushing a counterwagon to scum. That's scummy!
Accepting I made a mistake regarding your D3 behavior regarding Chaore. You still pushed Shadoweh, who is now known as TOWN, over Chaore, who is now known as SCUM. Your voting history indicts you.
@HW: What the hell are you talking about with "passive aggressive jabs"? I see nothing of the sort from me OR him. Secondly, I notice a suspicious lack of opinion on massclaim. What gives?
Cut by Bard and...Myself?: Um, well, this post is going to repeat things I just said because it was incomplete.
As for Bard fail math, assuming that, then you SHOULD realize that if we no lynch today, we have a 50% chance of lynching scum tomorrow. I don't really understand how you are missing this.
As for laziness at MYLO, why are you being lazy and not responding to a reasonable request. It'd be far less noisy if you just posted a concise case.
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EBWOP: Returning to work. Not sure I'll get another post out here until 7 or 8. I OVERSLEPT TODAY! ZOMG SCUMMY
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Blargh.
Well I got cut by the night phase yesterday, so the post I was working on got lost. Blargh.
I'll just get this out here real quick then.
Bard-
Pushed Shadoweh over Chaore D3. I remember saying something about how Chaore claimed to give bussing cred to his buddies, but I can see how this would also apply to Bard as he had Chaore on the backburner for a while.
Clears Dormio yesterday for what I only see as agreeing with him on Shadoweh scum. Uh huh. Can you expound why Dormio is probably town over other people, who are just uncertain? And your UKxHW scumteam relies on one's interactions with another. How is HW scummy on his own? How is he scummy based on associations with the confirmed scum? Your scumteam seems rather speculative and weak.
Also, wanna put a name to that claim?
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Bah, I can't work anymore. I stayed up too late last night and my brain isn't seeing what words are and how people are fucking them up.
So, Hourai! I am pleased to see a case on Bard since that puts you with the cool kids that are right. But I have a few wee issues.
1) No opinion on voting in MYLO. What's up with that? Could you tell me if you favor No Lynch or not?
2) No opinion on massclaim. That'd be a pretty cool thing to have. Town lost DtB mafia because no one thought massclaim was cool. Well, that was one of the reasons, anyway.
3) You suspected me yesterday. Is that still a thing? Are you pairing me with Bard? If so, why? And if you did drop me, why?
Thanks~
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Yo, Hourai, you think Bardiche is the scums, right?
Who do you think is the other scum?
Do you think that the UK case makes sense?
You question Bardiche's huh what case, does this mean that you don't think that huh what is the scums?
ITT: UK thinks that having the scum:town ratio being swung towards scum is a good thing.
Also, I like how UK has been trying to use the fact that UK had been mentioning Chaore before he claimed scum as a good thing that UK has done.
Except UK only mentioned Chaore twice on D3 before Chaore's suicide. The first was about a magical gut read that UK had. The second was that we should be voting Chaore for no reason.
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Simple math dictates I'm correct
Assuming random lynches, 2:3 lylo is more likely to be won than 2:4 mylo, simply due to probabilities. Given we seem to be good at doing a lot worse than random lynching, no lynching right now has a fair amount of benefit.
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Assuming random lynches
But we're not going to be holding random lynches.
At least, I'd hope to God that we aren't going to be holding random lynches.
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By reducing town's numbers, you're making scum's voices and opinions that much louder.
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No, but the thing is, the NK WILL remove people from the suspect pool, which is important. While you and I, and Bard to some degree, probably aren't voting outside our cute cases, Conquerer, HW, and possibly Hourai COULD benefit from one less suspect. As a matter of fact, even you have HW or Bard as your other. What happens if HW is killed?
Either way, as said before, assuming no self voting, 2:4 means we have a 40% chance of voting scum. 2:3 means we have a 50% chance. I know which one of these is better!
@Dormio: And making their intent more clear. The louder you are, the more scrutiny you get. Narrowing the suspect pool is a net positive.
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I'm not comfortable with the idea of leaving it up to scum to decide who the endgame members are.
This is my thoughts on the no lynch.
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I think that given the fact that there is no clear "confirmed townie", forcing the scum to decide endgame will be very telling.
And that's my opinion on no lynch.
I do agree that we're going to start talking in circles if we keep this up though.
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HEY, HW, CONQUERER, HH, YOU KNOW WHAT'D BE :AWESOME:?
POSTS =D!
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Alright, loop set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTzw53q45Z8), food down, and ready to reread this entire bloody game from the beginning. Let's go. 8)
Before I post my ISO's though, some comments on the blah blah blah that people are blabbing about.
Thoughts on no lynch - screw that. No lynching just means that tomorrow scum need one less vote for a mislynch; a.k.a. one townie voting wrongly as opposed to two. That's what it boils down to - to hell with all your probability theories.
Yes to massclaim though. Bard can start first by claiming the character he missed in his claim.
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Ok to answer some questions,
Voting for the No Lynch is a bad idea. In a perfect world, yes, it would improve odds, but scum isn't going to NK one of the potential lynches. They're going to hit the ones with a lot of townie cred, which rids town of another mind when the game-deciding lynch comes around. Scum will have a larger voice in that course of action, and I don't support it.
On the topic of a massclaim, I have no problem with it. Can't really hurt at this point, can it?
On the topic of UK, I find more merit in pursuing Bard for the time being. I'm not making pairs with unconfirmed scum because that leads to trains of thought that deviate from normal scum reading. Should Bard flip scum, then I will go back and reread with the confirmation of knowing he's scum to find his last buddy.
No I don't think huh what is scum. And Dormio, I notice that you said HW is likelier scum, whom you've provided no reasoning for, over Bard, whom you've talked about. Why is that? Seems like disconnect. Also, do you mean your UK case or just a case in general?
Bard, why did you feel the need to claim you wouldn't get killed overnight? Can you tell me a pro-town reason for doing this?
Gonna get this post ougwvmfjvwfmnfvmnf#vmehfvb
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No I don't think huh what is scum. And Dormio, I notice that you said HW is likelier scum, whom you've provided no reasoning for, over Bard, whom you've talked about. Why is that? Seems like disconnect.
#681 huh what pushes the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea, and that going against it is scummy.
Also continues to push the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea in #975.
Like Schezo and Chaore, he also defended UK for being on the LLD wagon.
In other words, he's being overly defensive of UK. And I believe UK to be scum. So yeah.
Right now I'm leaning more towards huh what being the scums though.
Should Bard flip scum, then I will go back and reread with the confirmation of knowing he's scum to find his last buddy.
Problem, it's MYLO. We don't have the luxury of getting another flip in order to find more connections.
We need to lynch scum, or not lynch at all. Which is why I propose lynching UK. Because UK is scum.
Also, do you mean your UK case or just a case in general?
Both my case on UK and Bardiche's. Do they make sense to you? Do you think UK is scum? Will you support a UK lynch?
RE: Massclaim,
I'm not from Gensokyo, and I have no idea how I found myself here.
I've been having a lot of fun in this world, though I do miss my partner.
As I've been wandering around this place, exploring, almost everybody I've met has commented on my likeness to a certain person.
They don't really like talking about this person, Yukari Yakumo was her name? Anyway, apparently I look just like her, and some people give me funny looks because of it.
I think I'm rambling on here, do forgive me. As I've been travelling through this land, the dates that people mention, as well as some of the events I've seen suggest that this is actually the past.
It's really weird, but I think I've travelled through time.
But, you know, as much fun as Gensokyo is... I want to go home.
I miss my friends, I miss my family, I miss Renko.
And then, while I was searching for a way back home, I got caught up in this mess.
"The Night of the Vampire", they call it.
It's terrible. Several people, including myself, were gathered and told that some of us had done some bad things, and were planning to do more bad things.
The worst part? We've been forced to group up and eliminate each other in a desperate attempt to find the bad people and bring an end to them.
We started with fourteen of us, now there are only six left, and the bad people are still among us. Watching our every move. Waiting to kill us.
I am Maribel Han, Vanilla Townie, a human with no special abilities that just wants to get out of this mess so I can find a way back home.
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@HH: I can see no lynch is being voted down. Consider my vote on Bard for the time being. I'll place it directly when we reach deadline, unless something changes my mind, which I don't see happening. Still, no point courting bad things. I do however disagree that scum won't kill someone that can be lynched, because of one thing. Everyone at this point is some degree of lynchable. There are two people I'd place as least likely to be lynched, but even then, I think cases could be made on them. I see no need to since I have my BardxDormio OTP ^-^.
@Dormio: Popcorn it Dormio. Who do you want to claim next? Bard also needs to complete his claim.
Dormio, is there anything implying HW recruit scum on his own merits, as opposed to his interactions with me?
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Popcorn it? What does that mean? ???
Anyway, I think that you are the recruit.
Also, I'll make another post about huh what when I get back in a few hours.
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My question after popcorn answers that. Popcorn claiming means you claim, and then pick the next person to claim. So who do you want to claim next?
Also, when did I change from being the original to the recruit? That basically removes any impact of interactions with Chaore/Schezo before D3.
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I said it somewhere before, I'll find it when I get back later.
And I recall saying that I don't think that it would be too weird to defend a future recruit or something.
Whatever, I shouldn't be here right now. Bleh.
As for who I want to claim next? Whoever appears next, I guess. Or you, since you're around.
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No. Name someone, Dormio.
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Going to bed. I won't be able to post until around 5 PM tomorrow, so I'll just claim now.
I am Byakuren Hijiri. Vanilla Townie, and human, as I said before. Supposedly I'm really good at killing youkai, but this doesn't help against the Scarlets.
Bard, finish your claim and pick who's claiming next.
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@UK: I dunno, the #1050 - #1052 exchange came off like you two were spiting eachother and it irked me. Doesn't matter too much now, I guess.
I have no real qualms with a massclaim, but I already claimed back during D2 (Chiyuri, vanilla townie and human) so I would have nothing to contribute. (I see one started already after I typed this.)
A quick check through the thread has not made me any more interested in scum candidates aside from Dormio and Bard as is. I'll try to get around to re-reading the others in detail, but I have had like zero motivation all day. Ughhh.
Though I would prefer choosing to No Lynch today, I desire to see Dormio lynched before Bard. I personally believe Dormio is the scummier of the two, or at least the one more likely to be scum if the other is town. It's mainly because of the way he jumped on to the Shadoweh wagon on D3 - even though this is scummy no matter what Bard's alignment is, it actually makes a little more sense in a situation where Bard is town because scum piling both their votes on their buddy's counterwagon would require serious balls. If Dormio was just bankshotting off a town!Bard's case to help find a townie alternative to the Chaore lynch, then that makes a lot more sense. I think Dormio is the safer lynch as a result.
Dormio's early vote today irritates me because of the environment. If we reach deadline with few people around (which I wouldn't say is too unlikely given the overall apathetic state of town here), that's him holding extra influence over us if he's not there at the time.
I think the rest of my suspicions have already been voiced. It bugs me a little that Bard never claimed his role name.
RE: The possibility of scum choosing their endgame: I don't think this is too much of a problem, but for the love of Suwako, if UK and Bard are part of the final three then do not vote anybody immediately or else I will rage. This isn't to say that I think you guys are derps who would do that automatically (aside from Dormio given how today went), but honestly, I am somewhat cautious about the possibility since my gut makes me think that Bard/UK might actually be town/town (because obviously my gut is worth so much during LYLO situations). That and it's just a bad idea to vote other players prematurely in these situations in general.
##Vote No Lynch
Pretty sure this is the best option for now. I think I already voiced my support for it in a previous post.
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It also feels like Dormio has been trying really hard to tie himself to Bardiche lately. I dunno, this might just be my personal paranoia speaking.
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One particular reason that I think the No Lynch benifits us: scum has likely already chosen a scumpair to push, and will continue push it to the best of their ability. Now, if our next lynch hits scum, and scum had not been choosing to bus up to that point, the lynch would basically force scum to make up a new BS case that compliments the flip of their buddy. If they're forced to kill off three townies instead of only two, we've decreased their choices significantly, putting them in a more restricted position. It's not only about increasing our own chances of getting a scum lynch so much as also decreasing scum's chance of getting a reliable town lynch.
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*two townies instead of one
I don't know how to logic.
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Also, when did I change from being the original to the recruit?
I think I changed my mind in #973. (The Google post)
And I don't get why you're so hung on popcorn claiming or something. Whatever.
huh what: Discussion about the no lynch/lynching is fine and all, but a post with cases and stuff would be nicer.
Anyway, that stuff I said I'd write about you!
#681 huh what pushes the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea, and that going against it is scummy.
Also continues to push the ~*~Townie Voting Block~*~ as a great idea in #975.
Like Schezo and Chaore, he also defended UK for being on the LLD wagon.
In other words, he's being overly defensive of UK. And I believe UK to be scum. So yeah.
To add to that, supporting UK in the No Lynch thing UK presented.
Also, #716, I don't know why, but that post gives me the impression that huh what is trying to present "Chaore is scum and targetted UK, ergo, UK is not scum."
In addition, #772: Defending Schezo's claim of Yukari.
#744: Makes the assumption that Schezo has died from Zakeri's vig shot that only kills vampires, when Schezo had claimed neither human nor vampire at that point. And Schezo really was a vampire. And scum. Other scum would have known that Schezo was a vampire. huh what's excuse for this is that he parsed it wrong. Care to explain how you had parsed it?
scum has likely already chosen a scumpair to push, and will continue push it to the best of their ability.
Like how you and UK push BardxDormio 4 lyfe? :V
I'm pretty sure that everybody here has a fair notion of who they think the last scum are in their head.
I like how you're using the wording there to imply that that's scummy.
5. Lady Lamdadelta - Aya Shiremaru, Tengu Town Commuter Cop, lynched on D1
4. Shadoweh - Parsee Muzibachi, Vanilla Townie, killed on N4
Shiremaru. Muzibachi. Wat?
Just something random I noticed whilst reading through the topic again.
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Dormio's early vote today irritates me because of the environment. If we reach deadline with few people around (which I wouldn't say is too unlikely given the overall apathetic state of town here), that's him holding extra influence over us if he's not there at the time.
Uh, huh. So I'm scummy if people decide to be lazy?
Spin spin spin spin spin~
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Like how you and UK push BardxDormio 4 lyfe? :V
I'm pretty sure that everybody here has a fair notion of who they think the last scum are in their head.
I like how you're using the wording there to imply that that's scummy.
Like how you and Bard push UKxHW 4 lyfe? :V
I like how you're manipulating my words to imply I'm implying things that I'm not trying to imply.
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In all honesty, though, I'm not 100% sold on Dormio/Bard at all. I'll probably take another look after Dormio flips scum, because that's something I actually am sold on.
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I was saying that as in like:
I'm pretty sure that everybody here has a fair notion of who they think the last scum are in their head.
I like how you're using the wording there to imply that that's scummy.
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Care to explain how you had parsed it?
I seriously skimmed his post and thought he could either vig somebody during the day phase or roleblock them at night. <_< I didn't even see the mention of humans and vampires. Basically, I'm a fucking idiot, or at least was at that point in time due to my brain being partially shut down.
Anyway, I was not trying to imply that having a "fair notion of who the last scum are in one's head" is scummy. I think you're attempting to discredit my statement, which looks odd to me because said statement should not be particularly hurtful to town. It's the same as the way you try to discredit the voting block and the possibility of a no lynch constantly.
ALSO.
In addition, #772: Defending Schezo's claim of Yukari.
That's not defending Schezo's claim at all. I thought that it was possibly Schezo was telling the truth about being Yukari, but not telling the truth about his alignment.
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One more thing,
Discussion about the no lynch/lynching is fine and all, but a post with cases and stuff would be nicer.
I'm sorry I'm not reposting cases I've already posted when they haven't changed at all? I brought up any new complaints I had about you and Bard in my post, but otherwise I think my cases on you and Bard have accumulated over my posts, and it's pretty easy to acknowledge their existance. I don't see why I should have to write something that has already been written. It's just extra noise.
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I just wanted to say that the concept of UK/HW vs Bard/Dormio is reminding me way too much of Vanilla Mafia's endgame.
I'm not particularly convinced that there's one scum in each pairing like there was in the game I'm talking about, but I'm starting to believe it's more likely that the amount of buddying between each pair means that there's probably only one scum involved maximum in each pairing. like dormio
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Hmm...
UK/Dormio seems surprisingly plausible to me. I'm pretty sure their general attitudes towards eachother changed on D3. It would make a lot more sense if Dormio dropped his UK case in favor of Shadoweh if he had to adjust to a newly recruited scum UK than if Dormio dropped his UK case in favor of Shadoweh because he had to adjust to defending his new buddy.
UK attacking Dormio doesn't matter, because last I checked, she has been pushing for a Bard lynch over a Dormio lynch anyway.
But all of this is pointless theorizing because Dormio needs to die first.
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On the other hand... Bard feels a lot scummier than UK individually to me. But the problem is that I'm realizing a lot of the things UK has done that I felt were townie could easily be artificial, as scum would have no problem suggesting townie things if they think they can weasel around them and still take the cred. It should be noted that the voting block never even took off, regardless of which faction you believe it would have helped.
One thing that makes me less likely to consider UK/Dormio over Dormio/Bard is Dormio's ridiculous attacks towards UK. I'm not sure if scum would want to fake that kind of vitriol (even if they were the Serial Killer from Darker than Black). However, considering that scum!Dormio has told us who his buddies were and why when he was cornered before... Hm. Plus, faking vitriol would actually be pro-scum, because townies don't like reading that kind of stuff, most of the time.
I think I'll need to re-read and look into this more tomorrow, when I have a clearer head.
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But for now, my official opinions are "Dormio is scum and we should lynch him, I don't actually care who his buddy is until he has died and flipped".
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Hey.
What about lynching Dormio
today and then no lynching tomorrow?
I think that actually benifits us a lot more than No Lynching today, because then we have another townie around to give their input on who the final scum is if we even reach tomorrow.
##Unvote: No Lynch
I want opinions on this.
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This is my 8th post in a row. ::::)
Sucks being the only townie online.
I would appreciate it if everybody who supports one of UK/HW and Bard/Dormio to comment on whether or not they think UK/Dormio is possible.
Though... it scares me when I realize I'm neglecting Conqueror and Hourai completely. Both seem townie to me, but I'm going to have to look into them more closely soon.
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That should be a ::::). Stop ruining my Vriska emotes, SMF.
Also. I'm realizing that some people might be giving me weird looks for thinking this is starting to come down to UK/HW vs Bard/Dormio, but that's certainly the direction this day has apparently been going in so far. Despite Hourai's claims that he's not thinking about buddies, it's fairly evident that his Bard case linked Bard to Dormio, so I'm under the impression that he has to an extent mentally considered a Bard/Dormio scumpairing.
9th post in a row. Hooray.
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Also. I want Bard to give the best response he can to just about all of my recent posts that may actually have something he finds worth responding to, for private reasons.
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Fuck. This isn't game-related, but I just realized that I completely misunderstood the Dormio/UK exchange that I mistook as being passive-aggressive.
Welp. Never mind about that. Sorry. :<
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Sucks being the only townie online.
No, seriously, I can't tell if Dormio is doing other things, has absolutely nothing to say to my recent posts even though I'm one of top suspects, or if he took lessons on how to avoid posting in Mafia threads while reading them late at night from our dearly departed Scum Recruiter Godfather. <_<
Dormio, if you're reading this, I want an opinion on my alternate No Lynch suggestion.
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HI IT'S 2:30 AM AND I HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO THAN MAKE GIANT POST COMBOS WHILE RE-READING THE PAST FEW PAGES CONSTANTLY.
Has anybody noticed that Dormio seems to support UK/HW, yet believes UK is recruit scum?
Dormio, what makes you think Schezo was willing to tunnel and park his vote on his scumbuddy since earlygame?
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Also. I want Bard to give the best response he can to just about all of my recent posts that may actually have something he finds worth responding to, for private reasons.
Actually, if you're certain I'm scum, you might want to explain what "best response" is.
Let's be honest here guys. Are you convinced I'm scum and is there anything I can do to change that, or might I just as well surrender, because I've made my case on UK and no one likes it? ┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ Claiming I wouldn't be killed is, of course, to get scum to NK someone else because I know for a fact that I am Renko Usami, Vanilla Townie, and I have no idea what any of you guys are.
So far the cases against me have seemed to be based on that I wanted Chaore to be quicklynched at some point, which is a false issue as I merely wanted him lynched and put to L-1, which I actually held off of for a while for fear of him hammering himself if he were scum. That this seems to be a cornerstone of the "Bardiche is scum" argument baffles me because it's not profitable to scum to quicklynch in any way short of stimulating more discussion on the next day, and for someone like Huh What it took way too long to produce any reads on Chaore.
Blatant stalling of the game and opposition to lynching Chaore by way of "omg quicklynch = bad i must has reads in" reads a lot worse to me than "fuckit, let's lynches the chaorz alreddi", but we have differing views here.
So, let's throw it down. Is there any way I can convince you guys of a UK scum, or are you sold on your pick already?
Responses to HW in seperate posts since he wants them so much.
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No, seriously, I can't tell if Dormio is doing other things, has absolutely nothing to say to my recent posts even though I'm one of top suspects, or if he took lessons on how to avoid posting in Mafia threads while reading them late at night from our dearly departed Scum Recruiter Godfather. <_<
Hi, I'm tired.
Dormio, if you're reading this, I want an opinion on my alternate No Lynch suggestion.
Lynching me today and no lynching tomorrow is a terrible idea.
Because lynching me today will mean that there is no tomorrow.
I would appreciate it if everybody who supports one of UK/HW and Bard/Dormio to comment on whether or not they think UK/Dormio is possible.
Bard/Dormio and UK/Dormio scumpairs are both impossible, because I'm aligned with town.
Has anybody noticed that Dormio seems to support UK/HW, yet believes UK is recruit scum?
What about this?
Dormio, what makes you think Schezo was willing to tunnel and park his vote on his scumbuddy since earlygame?
Why the hell not?
Bussing cred for whichever party survives?
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
RENKO!!!
How did you end up here, too?
Are you okay? Did you run into anything weird?
I told you this world existed!
Renkoooooooooooooooo, I missed you.
Renkoooooooooooooooo, maybe I could bear to stay in this world if I'm here with you!
Renko, let's get through this and spend the rest of our days together, here in Gensokyo!
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A quick check through the thread has not made me any more interested in scum candidates aside from Dormio and Bard as is.
I think this is lazy because you're just going after the two most popular wagons at the moment, both propelled by UK. Now what I find more interesting is that you never explained why I was scum, because you wrote this on the subject matter:
There's still that Bard case I was in the middle of writing up, but this sticks out to me a lot more now that I've noticed it. I do intend to finish my Bard case, but would like opinions on this first.
Your only reference to the case is that Conq wrote it (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666541.html#msg666541), which shows no original thoughts from your side on how I am scum. Do you understand why I think you're scum for claiming your case on me is very real when it doesn't really exist?
It bugs me a little that Bard never claimed his role name.
I claimed Vanilla Townie. Unfortunately, unlike the rest of you guys, I know absolutely nothing of Touhou, and I have not considered there to be any importance to my character name. If there is, I would prefer mods note it in the thread beforehand. How is this "bugging" you?
It also feels like Dormio has been trying really hard to tie himself to Bardiche lately.
This is the feeling I got with UK when she voted along with Lambda, or started justifying votes by GUT!! rather than case which I did for a while. Regretably she seems to pull this off a lot less scummy than I can, which is baffling. :U
In all honesty, though, I'm not 100% sold on Dormio/Bard at all.
Stop waffling on me. You keep going from BARD IS SCUM to BARD IS TOWN to BARD IS SCUM. Now decide. Am I scum or am I town to you, and if I am the latter then why is UK absolutely not scum?
In fact, all of you. Explain. Why is UK not scum?
I brought up any new complaints I had about you and Bard in my post, but otherwise I think my cases on you and Bard have accumulated over my posts, and it's pretty easy to acknowledge their existance. I don't see why I should have to write something that has already been written. It's just extra noise.
I think asking people to dig through your posts to ultimately arrive at "I'll write a case on Bard later" and forcing them to piece together stuff written within a certain timeframe which may no longer apply is much more noise. State your case.
DORMIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Let's ditch these losers, they're all stoked on their "zomg Dormio x Bard" anyway that they don't even want to consider why our push on UK is wrong!
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Also it's kinda frustrating Conq and Hourai continue lurking even now. What, do you want us to fight it out so there's no way we can consider you two scum anymore?
HEY, HEY, UK, DORMIO, HW, LET'S LAL!
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But no, seriously, why is MotK always lurking? What is this? If neither of you two are scum I will be so incredibly frustrated with you.
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I dunno, Conqueror promised us ISO reads like ten hours ago.
Hanged Hourai has been missing like all game. :V
However, unfortunately, I'm inclined to believe that both of them are town. :/
DORMIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Let's ditch these losers, they're all stoked on their "zomg Dormio x Bard" anyway that they don't even want to consider why our push on UK is wrong!
Renkooooooooooooo!
Once we get out of this mess, let's explore this place together!
This is what we've always been looking for, right?
I don't need to go back, not as long as you're here with me!
Once this is over, we can live together here in Gensokyo, it's much better than where we came from isn't it?
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Yeah, I think they're town too, just being lurktown.
I don't want to be in Gensokyo, fugging Touhou. D:
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Well, I can't change how you feel, Renko...
If you don't want to stay here, I'll look for a way back home with you.
Because I don't think I could live without you.
In other words, Conqueror and Hourai, posting is a thing would be something that is much appreciated.
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Well, I can't change how you feel, Renko...
If you don't want to stay here, I'll look for a way back home with you.
Because I don't think I could live without you.
You're truly my light in this darkness. Let's elope! We'll have none more of this! Look towards the east, and we'll escape west.
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Let's elope!
I...
This is so sudden, Renko...
And we're both girls...
But... If it's you...
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（ ^_^）o自自o（^_^ ）
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ಠ_ಠ
Votecount
UncertainKitten (1) - Dormio
Not voting: Everyone else
6 alive, 4 to lynch. Have, uh, 40 hours or something remaining.
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I dunno, Conqueror promised us ISO reads like ten hours ago.
I went to sleep because the words were starting to blend. :V
Will post when I get back from errands in an hour.
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More of no opinions
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ლ(?ロ?ლ)
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Alright, so after thinking this through, let's take a new approach.
It's been over 24 hours since the day began. There have been no posts from Hourai and Conqueror that had any relevance to the game so far. Now then, postulate all you will, and go haet on me later, but if you look at the previous day we had a lot of active lurking from a lot of parties. Posting lots, saying little, doing little. Now, this may be far-fetched, but I'm going to propose that only one of Dormio, Bardiche, Huh What and UK can be scum.
I know that Dormio AND I are town, so therefore either HW or UK is scum, but likely not both. The other scum must be one of our lurkers, Conqueror or Hanged Hourai.
So far I've felt pretty good about Hourai's contributions, so I intend to re-read UK, HW and Conqueror, the three of them. ConqKitten, that is. The thing with Conq is that I forget he's even playing, and I want to make sure his contributions were valuable and worthwhile.
For that reason, I am going to drop my case on UK for now. It is obvious people do not agree with my assessment, so I will have to re-assess. For now, I'd like to ask everyone to re-read every player and tally up why they would be scum so we can earnestly dissect why we are not scum and whether we agree with cases on eachother, because obviously slinging with UK isn't going to help much when I fiercely disagree with the case on myself, and find the case on UK the best thing ever.
Obviously I only have Dormio agreeing with me, of who I am convinced that he is town, but this isn't enough to tied over MyLo/LyLo. There is not a shadow of doubt in my mind that my raburii darling could be scum.
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Posting takes longer than you think it does. >_>
I'd really like it if you guys would WAIT FOR ME TO POST GOD.
A quick question for Bardiche though: why the defense of Dormio? What makes you so sure he's town?
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Because Dormio is my bro, and I can tell when my bro is scum. Right now he is not scum, I am convinced of this.
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That's really no better than UK's GUT cases. Any particular reason you want to share though?
Also, I'm Yumemi Okazaki, Vanilla Townie and human. Hourai is last I think if he hasn't already claimed.
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Well, you see, Bard was SUPPOSED to pick who claimed next, and it's honestly irritating he didn't, DESPITE ME ASKING HIM TO.
There was a reason for that. But, with only one claimant left, I'll divulge after this question is answered. What claiming position would be most advantageous for scum to have, in your opinion?
Everyone ever needs to answer that. I'll answer last since I don't want to spoil the results.
Secondly, HW, I'll support a Dormio lynch if I can't get my Bard lynch. It's just I feel that Bard has more awful behind him, seeing as how he's had two more days of it. Either of them can hang though.
As for the observations on The Disappearance of Conquerer Houraimiya, that bugs the hell out of me. I'm going to reread both of them at some point after I actually get off work today. That said, Hourai HAS contributed more than Conquerer, since Hourai has at least said who's scum and provided some reasoning why. Could you be a dear and do that yourself, Conquerer4U?
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Part 1 of 5
BARDICHE ISO:
Let's start from the top.
The game starts with the fake vig (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659020.html#msg659020) in the confirmation phrase, as we all know. Bardiche has ended RVS as both town and scum, so the gesture itself is a null tell. Now, considering how demotivating this "vig shot" was to Shadoweh (a demotivation that seems to have stuck with her well throughout the early game), what with Bard's "justification" of the vig shot and all that jazz, I've considered if scum!Bard may have deliberately conjured up the vig shot for this express purpose, but unfortunately I can't read Bard's mind so I don't know what the hell he was thinking. I'm going to have to consider this whole episode a null tell. The snipes on other people during this period were basically gotcha games, but considering this was pre-ED1, Bard gets somewhat of a pass for actually trying to make cases.
After that comes the interesting bit. There's a short detour to Kiro, but then Bardiche elegantly points out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659987.html#msg659987) a disconnect in Schezo's posting, only to vote LLD for a post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659454.html#msg659454) which seems, at worst, more derp than scummy. The vote itself seems nitpicky and based on issues with wording in LLD's post; a questionable method of scumhunting, to say the least.
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660102.html#msg660102) is pretty waffly concerning Kiro and LLD. Well, at least he admits it! LLD is "weird" and apparently Bard's vote is supposed to be some sort of a prod vote for opinions rather than a vote from scumminess? In the end LLD completely collapses and the wagon falls through.
On day 2, there's a bizarre jump (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662357.html#msg662357) off of PX when he had been pushing PX earlier. Looks like an attempt to distance from a town wagon; suddenly Bard concludes that PX's posts on D1 were town-motivated, when his earlier posts had indicated nothing of the sort.
I've already talked about Day 3. The stated reasons for grilling Chaore and Shadoweh were mainly because of the last minute wagon switches, and in the end Bardiche didn't even vote Chaore. The attack on Chaore feels like it stems from a manufactured reason, even if the target turned out to be correct.
Day 4 has Bardiche sitting around saying "No opinions, sorry. （?∀｀）" UK suddenly jumps up to top scum read here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666805.html#msg666805). What was new other than the fact that people had started looking more closely at her?
Day 5 is when Bard produces his magical opinions on everybody. Well, actually, just UK. Bardiche, do you think that UK is original or recruit scum? Also, we waited two game days for your cases; is this all? Oh wait, that's not all. Bardiche has a clear on Dormio for no reason at all. He's either whiteknighting or defending a scum buddy. Either way, he's not town.
So remember me saying scum can't kill me? It's because I'm Vanilla Town~!, and because I was posting minimalistically on D3/4 and am a good target for a mislynch! :D
I don't like it when people label themselves as scum's favorite mislynch. It reeks too much of...what's the word? Keikaku Doori? Anyway, remember what you said to Shadoweh? (I think it was you, right?) Yeah.
Moreover, I steered clear of it because it was A) an evident popular wagon and B) I thought it would be useful to discuss more first, but I was obviously terribly wrong because MotK town rolls over and waits for the sweet salvation of death when they have scum. :U
Several things to note here. First of all, steering clear of a "popular wagon" is a great reason not to vote for a scumbuddy. As for the second part, either you don't practice what you preach or you're just BSing. You can't have forgotten the last two days that quickly, can you?
Which is why I want the lurkers (I know Chaore has read this!) to unlurk and treat this game as if it has already begun and start coming in with observations and opinions. No reason to abstain from contributing immediately.
This is interesting in retrospect, but I don't know if it's important or not.
Verdict: Bardiche is scum, probably original scum.
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Next 4 coming up.
Also, I'm going to be really irritated if people are going to attack me for my inactivity, which stems from out-of-game reasons and is basically indefensible. >_>
Re: the question, it's better for scum to claim last, clearly.
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I know that Dormio AND I are town.
I somehow missed this. Add this as evidence in my Bard post.
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I'm just going to take this apart.
The game starts with the fake vig (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659020.html#msg659020) in the confirmation phrase, as we all know. Bardiche has ended RVS as both town and scum, so the gesture itself is a null tell. Now, considering how demotivating this "vig shot" was to Shadoweh (a demotivation that seems to have stuck with her well throughout the early game), what with Bard's "justification" of the vig shot and all that jazz, I've considered if scum!Bard may have deliberately conjured up the vig shot for this express purpose, but unfortunately I can't read Bard's mind so I don't know what the hell he was thinking. I'm going to have to consider this whole episode a null tell. The snipes on other people during this period were basically gotcha games, but considering this was pre-ED1, Bard gets somewhat of a pass for actually trying to make cases.
I read this as, "This entire paragraph is meaningless". What exactly are you holding against me here other than that you think I get a pass for making cases?
After that comes the interesting bit. There's a short detour to Kiro, but then Bardiche elegantly points out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659987.html#msg659987) a disconnect in Schezo's posting, only to vote LLD for a post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg659454.html#msg659454) which seems, at worst, more derp than scummy. The vote itself seems nitpicky and based on issues with wording in LLD's post; a questionable method of scumhunting, to say the least.
Lambda, please restate your logic on why both Shadoweh and I are scum, or at the very least on why I am scum. You're voting me despite saying you won't vote over a vig shot, that vig shot is now ~*fake*~. I don't like your logic of how I am scum if I am really a dayvig, and how Shadoweh is town if I am, BUT if Shadoweh isn't dead then she is surely scum, and if she flips scum then so am I.
What is nitpicky about this? "Your case smells of bullshit and doesn't make sense" is too nitpicky? What issue is there with the wording in her post, other than the issue of there being too few words explaining her logic?
This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg660102.html#msg660102) is pretty waffly concerning Kiro and LLD. Well, at least he admits it! LLD is "weird" and apparently Bard's vote is supposed to be some sort of a prod vote for opinions rather than a vote from scumminess? In the end LLD completely collapses and the wagon falls through.
This is a report, and while it is nice it serves nothing. I opened the vote on her with the quote above, and as you can see it directly asks for her to clarify her logic because I did not like it at that point. How exactly does the consistency indict me as scum? And how am I waffly between Kiro and Lambda, when I quite clearly listed my rea-- oh, you're attacking me due to refusing to let emotions get the better of me. Wow, that's low. :S
On day 2, there's a bizarre jump (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662357.html#msg662357) off of PX when he had been pushing PX earlier. Looks like an attempt to distance from a town wagon; suddenly Bard concludes that PX's posts on D1 were town-motivated, when his earlier posts had indicated nothing of the sort.
Obviously I was saying it felt like Lambdadelta's ordeal again where we were lynching someone for being inelegant in answering. But hey, congrats, you have me there: I never indicated I felt PX was DURN TOWNIE. I don't think that's enough to decisively say I am scum, because staying on him would've been safer than try an end-of-day wagon swing-around.
[qote]I've already talked about Day 3. The stated reasons for grilling Chaore and Shadoweh were mainly because of the last minute wagon switches, and in the end Bardiche didn't even vote Chaore. The attack on Chaore feels like it stems from a manufactured reason, even if the target turned out to be correct.[/quote]
I opened the day by voting Chaore, I do believe, and jumped off him to discuss other things as I said. Then Chaore claimed scum and I have a habit of not trusting people who claim scum because they might be ragequitting. I jumped back on him when it looked certain that no one was going to look at anything else, and because people were not doing anything else either. How was the attack on Chaore manufactured, when it was pretty much for pulling an anti-town move in negating a wagon based on the naive idea that scum would leave a claimed Watcher alone if he were really town? You'll have to back up your claims here: what is manufactured?
Also, why are you misrepresenting again? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664502.html#msg664502) I voted him, even before he claimed scum.
Day 4 has Bardiche sitting around saying "No opinions, sorry. （?∀｀）" UK suddenly jumps up to top scum read here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666805.html#msg666805). What was new other than the fact that people had started looking more closely at her?
Read the first line of that post, then come back.
Day 5 is when Bard produces his magical opinions on everybody. Well, actually, just UK. Bardiche, do you think that UK is original or recruit scum? Also, we waited two game days for your cases; is this all? Oh wait, that's not all. Bardiche has a clear on Dormio for no reason at all. He's either whiteknighting or defending a scum buddy. Either way, he's not town.
It's MyLo and you want me to make cases on more than just who I think is the most scum. Ooo... kay. So why is it impossible that I know Dormio to be town with me?
I don't like it when people label themselves as scum's favorite mislynch. It reeks too much of...what's the word? Keikaku Doori? Anyway, remember what you said to Shadoweh? (I think it was you, right?) Yeah.
Because it was keikaku doori? What else would I pull something I knew would be seen as scummy even though people cannot motivate it well?
Several things to note here. First of all, steering clear of a "popular wagon" is a great reason not to vote for a scumbuddy.
It's also what I do each game. Are you implying I've spent each game as town avoiding jumping mindlessly on popular wagons just to use it as a reason not to bus a buddy? Do you honestly think I wouldn't bus a buddy?
As for the second part, either you don't practice what you preach or you're just BSing. You can't have forgotten the last two days that quickly, can you?
Where I tried to discuss other things, ran into a wall of "let's focus only on Chaore!!" and "TOWNIE VOTING BLOCK!!", then gave up and decided to just roll with a new plan? No, I haven't forgotten the past two days. What exactly is scummy about giving up on discussing with town when they're obviously too stoked on a lynch?
This is interesting in retrospect, but I don't know if it's important or not.
Then why raise it? "Here guys these are things, FIGURE OUT IF THEY ARE SCUMMY FOR ME THX"?
Verdict: Bardiche is scum, probably original scum.
Cool, now for the actual motivation of why this is so. ┐( ?∀? )┌ Jumping on the easiest case out there immediately doesn't really endear you to me, given you'd have to be blind not to realise you'd have HW and UK support if you pushed a Bard case. Now that it's actually pretty bad, I have to wonder if you're not the last scum I'm looking for among them lurkers.
Cut by scum. Evidence of what? That Dormio and I are town?
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To summarise Conq's case as I see it:
Bard did something in the pre-game which is null, and a pass for trying to make cases. There is no argument of why I am scum here.
Bard voted Lambda, with a questionable method of scumhunting. This is a playstyle argument.
I am misrepresenting stuff. This is obviously not an argument on why I am scummy.
Bard jumped off PX. There is no indication from him whether this is scummy, so it's an observation and report, not an argument.
I am misrepresenting more stuff. Again, no argument.
Bardiche thinks UK is scummy out of nowhere. I don't understand how it's scummy to think someone's scummy.
Bardiche makes a case on UK and thinks Dormio is town. This is also not scummy as far as I am aware.
So Conq's case on me falls down to "Bardiche is scummy because".
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Bardiche, if I pointed it out, I obviously think it's scummy. Are you seriously saying my case is invalid because I didn't add "this is scummy" to the end of each of my points? Just a quick question before I take apart your "taking apart."
Bard calls himself the "easy case", rofl. Don't make me laugh.
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Both UK and HW expressed desire to lynch me. How is that not easy? ┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ The easiest cases are the ones people are already gunning for, since you just need to fabricate a reason to get on it.
I'm saying your case is invalid because there's mirepresentations and incomplete thoughts in it that don't at all show how I am scum, if I am at all. If you point it out, then don't follow it up, it might as well be "neutral" like your entire opening paragraph. Reporting is a staple of scum, and trying to argue you weren't reporting for parts of that is suspect.
Well, you see, Bard was SUPPOSED to pick who claimed next, and it's honestly irritating he didn't, DESPITE ME ASKING HIM TO.
There was a reason for that. But, with only one claimant left, I'll divulge after this question is answered. What claiming position would be most advantageous for scum to have, in your opinion?
Whoever claims later knows what he can and can't get away with, obviously. >_> There were two people to go after me, at this stage it honestly doesn't matter and you should claim based on who is around, not an arbitrary game of relay tag.
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Bard is the "easy case", though. Everybody except Bard himself has expressed interest in suspecting him to some extent.
Will respond to the other stuff later, maybe. I woke up about a hour ago and I'm tired.
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Cutting myself again.
Calling someone the "easy case" when everyone agrees he's done a lot of scummy stuff is like saying Schezo is the easy case because everybody agrees he's scum.
Both UK and HW expressed desire to lynch me. How is that not easy? ┐(-｡ｰ; )┌ The easiest cases are the ones people are already gunning for, since you just need to fabricate a reason to get on it.
HEY BARD, UK BECAME AN EASY CASE YESTERDAY WHEN EVERYBODY STARTED LOOKING AT HER FOR BEING COMPLETELY OBSTINATE, SO YOUR SUDDEN SWITCH TO HER IS AN INDICATION OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE ACCUSING ME OF. EXCEPT, OH WAIT, I WAS SUSPECTING YOU LONG BEFORE YOU GAVE ANY INDICATION OF SUSPECTING UK.
I'm saying your case is invalid because there's mirepresentations and incomplete thoughts in it that don't at all show how I am scum, if I am at all. If you point it out, then don't follow it up, it might as well be "neutral" like your entire opening paragraph. Reporting is a staple of scum, and trying to argue you weren't reporting for parts of that is suspect.
Since you can't seem to read between the lines, Bard, I'll spell it out for you in my next post. Happy?
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Yes. I happy. It's scummy to let people "figure out what you mean", because when they interpret you wrongly you can turn around and say "NAH UH, NOT WHAT I SAID, I ONLY POINTED IT OUT I NEVER SAID IT WAS SCUMMY!". If you have an opinion, tote it around.
Meanwhile mine is ##Vote: Conqueror.
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Alright, this is getting irritating.
It's scummy to let people "figure out what you mean", because when they interpret you wrongly you can turn around and say "NAH UH, NOT WHAT I SAID, I ONLY POINTED IT OUT I NEVER SAID IT WAS SCUMMY!". If you have an opinion, tote it around.
Stop misrepping me. I think I was pretty clear in what I tried to say with my post. Here, let me get my other post out first because otherwise I'm never going to get to it.
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It wasn't, you spent the entire first paragraph waffling over how something was a null read.
I'm more interested in seeing your other cases right now, although I expect that Dormio = scum and the rest are town to you.
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I read this as, "This entire paragraph is meaningless". What exactly are you holding against me here other than that you think I get a pass for making cases?
You're right, this paragraph is rather pointless! This paragraph is a holdover from when I was going to comment on every single one of your posts last night and I shouldn't have included it. But what about the rest of my case, Bard? Actually, don't respond yet. LET ME GET MY POST OUT GOD.
Posting now before Bard goes off on another tangent.
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What is nitpicky about this? "Your case smells of bullshit and doesn't make sense" is too nitpicky? What issue is there with the wording in her post, other than the issue of there being too few words explaining her logic?
You are nitpicking over Lambda's word choice, just like what you're doing to me right now. Personally, I falmpalmed when I read that paragraph, because it didn't make any sense. However, you took the fact that she worded her post badly and twisted it to wring out a meaning from it that she probably didn't intend. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see what huh what did to me in Zombie Apocalypse Mafia. In any case, this reads as punishing for bad rhetoric instead of scumminess, and this is scummy because scum want to mislynch townies with bad play instead of scum. Also, the other point in that paragraph is still completely valid.
This is a report, and while it is nice it serves nothing. I opened the vote on her with the quote above, and as you can see it directly asks for her to clarify her logic because I did not like it at that point. How exactly does the consistency indict me as scum? And how am I waffly between Kiro and Lambda, when I quite clearly listed my rea-- oh, you're attacking me due to refusing to let emotions get the better of me. Wow, that's low. :S
Waffling is scummy because it lets scum put out words without taking a firm opinion, which means that they can't be tied to flips. But I'm glad you admit to the accusation. Also, don't be a jerk. >_>
Obviously I was saying it felt like Lambdadelta's ordeal again where we were lynching someone for being inelegant in answering. But hey, congrats, you have me there: I never indicated I felt PX was DURN TOWNIE. I don't think that's enough to decisively say I am scum, because staying on him would've been safer than try an end-of-day wagon swing-around.
Cool story bro. What would you say if I said that what you're doing to me feels like the same thing that happened to LLD? Because that what it feels like to me.
I opened the day by voting Chaore, I do believe, and jumped off him to discuss other things as I said. Then Chaore claimed scum and I have a habit of not trusting people who claim scum because they might be ragequitting. I jumped back on him when it looked certain that no one was going to look at anything else, and because people were not doing anything else either.
Also, why are you misrepresenting again? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664502.html#msg664502) I voted him, even before he claimed scum.
You opened the day by voting Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663599.html#msg663599). Chaore claiming scum didn't come until a while later. You jumped onto Chaore in the time period right before capt. h's modkill, when most people wanted to wait and see if we could get any information from his death. This is scummy because it had the potential to cut short discussion and deny us the information that Kiro was probably town and that town was in MYLO until the next day. Here, let me requote a condensed version of my case I made on you earlier. I notice you never responded to it.
Bardiche dances around the Chaore wagon at the beginning of D3 by voting Shadoweh instead (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663599.html#msg663599). He softly supports the growing case on Chaore but never places a vote on him, instead pushing a lynch on Shadoweh. What I find most suspicious, however, is how Bardiche continually responds to (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663689.html#msg663689) and refutes (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663947.html#msg663947)Chaore, but after all that, he's still pushing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664426.html#msg664426) for a Shadoweh lynch over Chaore! This holds until his bizarre behavior at midday, when he decides to put Chaore to L-1 before half the day has passed, which looks like an attempt to cut short discussion by taking advantage of the capt. h modkill lowering the lynch threshold (in retrospect, the votecount would have been reset, but I don't think anyone knew this at the time).
How was the attack on Chaore manufactured, when it was pretty much for pulling an anti-town move in negating a wagon based on the naive idea that scum would leave a claimed Watcher alone if he were really town? You'll have to back up your claims here: what is manufactured?
Are you listening to yourself? Not to mention there was an implied Doctor, and no indication that there would be a nightkill on N2. It's a manufactured reason because it reads as complete BS, and if this is your only reason for suspecting Chaore I have to question whether you actually did suspect him, or if you were just making up a bullshit reason to suspect him in order to try to gain townie cred.
Read the first line of that post, then come back.
I am saying this is scummy because you pulled a scum read out of nowhere, when you had given no indication of suspecting her before. Doing this is scummy because it lets scum not have to be held accountable with their previous opinions.
It's MyLo and you want me to make cases on more than just who I think is the most scum. Ooo... kay. So why is it impossible that I know Dormio to be town with me?
Your excuse for not producing cases at ED3 and on D4 was that there was no point in discussing until all the claimed scum were lynched. All the claimed scum have been lynched now - where are the cases? This is scummy because, again, not having cases is scummy. I don't know how much clearer I can be. Also, the only way you could possibly know that Dormio is town is if you are scum. You're not helping your case.
Because it was keikaku doori? What else would I pull something I knew would be seen as scummy even though people cannot motivate it well?
WHY DO SCUM DO SCUMMY THINGS? HMM, THIS IS A HARD ONE. Don't pull out "too scummy to be scum" on me.
It's also what I do each game. Are you implying I've spent each game as town avoiding jumping mindlessly on popular wagons just to use it as a reason not to bus a buddy? Do you honestly think I wouldn't bus a buddy?
I'm not going to get in a meta argument with you because I honestly don't see what the point you're trying to make is. Also, Bard, I've played with you as scum. You've both bussed and not bussed.
Where I tried to discuss other things, ran into a wall of "let's focus only on Chaore!!" and "TOWNIE VOTING BLOCK!!", then gave up and decided to just roll with a new plan? No, I haven't forgotten the past two days. What exactly is scummy about giving up on discussing with town when they're obviously too stoked on a lynch?
I'm talking about the period after Chaore and Schezo claimed, when you decided to give up on discussing with town.
Then why raise it? "Here guys these are things, FIGURE OUT IF THEY ARE SCUMMY FOR ME THX"?
I NEVER MEANT OR IMPLIED THAT.
Cool, now for the actual motivation of why this is so. ┐( ?∀? )┌ Jumping on the easiest case out there immediately doesn't really endear you to me, given you'd have to be blind not to realise you'd have HW and UK support if you pushed a Bard case. Now that it's actually pretty bad, I have to wonder if you're not the last scum I'm looking for among them lurkers.
Already answered this.
Cut by scum. Evidence of what? That Dormio and I are town?
Bardiche has a clear on Dormio for no reason at all. He's either whiteknighting or defending a scum buddy. Either way, he's not town.
Hey Bard, repeating the same line over and over again with no backing for it doesn't make it valid. Also, are you deliberately trying to piss me off? Because that's what this really feels like.
Nice OMGUS vote btw.
Here, let me one up you. Except I'm the one with a case. Oops!
In all seriousness, I'm probably going to vote Bard at day's end.
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Bard did something in the pre-game which is null, and a pass for trying to make cases. There is no argument of why I am scum here.
No, there isn't. Man, this would have been so much easier if I had just thought "Bard is scum, let's find evidence", instead of actually trying to reread your entire fucking ISO, wouldn't it?
Bard voted Lambda, with a questionable method of scumhunting. This is a playstyle argument.
Let me complete that sentence that for you. Bard voted Lambda, with a questionable method of scumhunting that pushed her scumminess based on bad play instead of scumminess. This is scummy because it benefits scum more than town.
I am misrepresenting stuff. This is obviously not an argument on why I am scummy.
Misrepresenting stuff is scummy because it lets scum push bad cases on townies.
Bard jumped off PX. There is no indication from him whether this is scummy, so it's an observation and report, not an argument.
Looks like an attempt to distance from a town wagon; suddenly Bard concludes that PX's posts on D1 were town-motivated, when his earlier posts had indicated nothing of the sort.
Don't misrep me bro. Also, vote switches for bad reasons are scummy because they're the easiest way for scum to move their votes around to control the lynch.
I am misrepresenting more stuff. Again, no argument.
See above.
Bardiche thinks UK is scummy out of nowhere. I don't understand how it's scummy to think someone's scummy.
I am saying this is scummy because you pulled a scum read out of nowhere, when you had given no indication of suspecting her before. Doing this is scummy because it lets scum not have to be held accountable with their previous opinions.
Also, you happened to suddenly "gain" this suspicion at a time when UK was under scrutiny from other people.
Bardiche makes a case on UK and thinks Dormio is town. This is also not scummy as far as I am aware.
That isn't scummy, but that isn't what I'm accusing you of, is it? And it's not that you think Dormio is town; it's that you're defending the fuck out of him for who knows what reasons. Defending people for bad or nonexistent reasons is scummy because townies don't know enough to defend people for bad reasons.
So Conq's case on me falls down to "Bardiche is scummy because".
Bardiche is scummy because he does scummy stuff. Fascinating, isn't it?
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Oh God walls. Um...so, lemme get this straight. Conq is scum because...he made a case on you, Bard? WHY ARE YOU BEING ME D:?
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Fuck logic. It has never worked for me in this particular game anyway.
Honest truth is that I have been reading Bard as derptown since last night, and his recent posts only re-inforce this.
I'm currently hesitant to write an actual post for reasons that I think should be obvious to the rest of the players. Not sure if the mods want us to keep it private, though.
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Honest truth is that I have been reading Bard as derptown since last night, and his recent posts only re-inforce this.
Bard is twisting my words to pretend I never took a firm stance on him in my case on him. How is this derptown?
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I think he's looking at things from a biased perspective.
Bard is not the lynch for today as far as I am concerned. I'll eat my hat postgame if he turns out to be scum, I guess, but I don't think we should be going after him.
I can't really put why I think he's town into words, though. It's not solely gut, but it's something that can't really be explained.
:s
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Oh God walls. Um...so, lemme get this straight. Conq is scum because...he made a case on you, Bard? WHY ARE YOU BEING ME D:?
It works out for you, doesn't it? ┐( ?∀? )┌ You just mad I plagiarising.
Lambda, please restate your logic on why both Shadoweh and I are scum, or at the very least on why I am scum. You're voting me despite saying you won't vote over a vig shot, that vig shot is now ~*fake*~. I don't like your logic of how I am scum if I am really a dayvig, and how Shadoweh is town if I am, BUT if Shadoweh isn't dead then she is surely scum, and if she flips scum then so am I.
No, really, enlighten me here on how this scenario works out because I am not seeing it.
What in this piece nitpicks Lambda's choice of words? She says Shadoweh is scum regardless of my alignment unless she flips town. This argument is incredibly silly and for a self-styled competentplayer of Mafia I wanted to know why she would then push this piece of derplogic as an opener to the game.
I'm not native to the English language so you will have to explain to me how I am nitpicking her choice of words here because I'm not seeing it.
Waffling is scummy because it lets scum put out words without taking a firm opinion, which means that they can't be tied to flips. But I'm glad you admit to the accusation. Also, don't be a jerk. >_>
Yeah duh, I'm asking why it was scummy of me to vote Lambda for her bad logic and wanting an explanation for it. And you're the one saying I "waffled on Kiro" because I was pretty annoyed with how he came into the game going "I'm going to play anti-Bard!". All his actions that seemed scummy to me were said only by me, so I can only assume it meant I was seeing things in a different light from the rest because I was angry with him. How is this being a jerk when I interpret it as you taking a lowblow by saying "Bard is scum for waffling on Kiro :V" when I was very cross with him and couldn't trust my observations not to be colour-tinted?
Cool story bro. What would you say if I said that what you're doing to me feels like the same thing that happened to LLD? Because that what it feels like to me.
Third time's the charm.
Are you listening to yourself? Not to mention there was an implied Doctor, and no indication that there would be a nightkill on N2. It's a manufactured reason because it reads as complete BS, and if this is your only reason for suspecting Chaore I have to question whether you actually did suspect him, or if you were just making up a bullshit reason to suspect him in order to try to gain townie cred.
The implied doctor flipped after Chaore flipped. I had no way to know there was a doctor around at that point. Do you know why it's scummy? Because Kiro hadn't claimed Human or Vampire, and if we truly had two investigative roles, it seems hilariously broken if a 2scum-1recruit team would have no ways to counter at least one. Then they're a 3scum-1recruit team instead, and they provably have ways to deal with townies.
The thing is here, that if Kiro had claimed Cop with a town result on Shadoweh, lynching another person in the last few minutes would have been just as damning because it's naively assuming that scum has no ways to deal with the investigative role, and that the investigative role cannot be recruited at all by scum. Take into account that part of town was calling for his head and part of the PX votes were from lurkers who hadn't shown up for a while, and PX was lynched by Shadoweh and Chaore, plus a contingent of people who hadn't updated their opinions yet.
I am saying this is scummy because you pulled a scum read out of nowhere, when you had given no indication of suspecting her before. Doing this is scummy because it lets scum not have to be held accountable with their previous opinions.
Actually, the opposite is scummy. Townies can change their opinions: implying changing an opinion suddenly due to a revelation or new info is scummy. At that point UK had just displayed a new piece of information which made me want to lynch her. When I said "want to lynch her more", I simply showed that I already had suspicions about her I had not mentioned before─was it bad of me not to mention this before? Perhaps. Was there any cause to lynch anyone outside of Schezo, and any cause to show scum who were all suspects and would be good MyLo/LyLo food? No, again. Hence why I did not feel the need to make cases.
And huh, I did vote Shadoweh. You're absolutely right. I'm scum for lying and you should all lynch me now. ( ・ω・)
I NEVER MEANT OR IMPLIED THAT.
So why raise it?
This is scummy because, again, not having cases is scummy.
So when you wrote this, did you mean you needed to re-read to verify your cases, or did you mean you had none and had to re-read to build them? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg667984.html#msg667984)
Speaking of, I think we'd all be interested to see them, and if I am right that you'll only produce Dormio and I as scum and the rest as shades of town.
Oh God walls. Um...so, lemme get this straight. Conq is scum because...he made a case on you, Bard? WHY ARE YOU BEING ME D:?
But but it works for you dun't it? ┐( ?∀? )┌ In all due serious it's because he's opening the day with attacking someone who most in the game already agreed looks scummy and they want to lynch, bar me. Furthermore, he spent more than 24 hours after Day began to construct the case, whereas he's been yelling that I'm scum for a while now. He didn't elaborately build on that in the previous days, but holds me against not having elaborate cases on anyone. He thinks it's scummy not to have cases on more than one person, but he himself is writing his cases and hasn't had them ready.
Moreover, despite what he says about Kiro, he does raise that he (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662808.html#msg662808) thinks Kiro is scummy, but wouldn't support a wagon (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662810.html#msg662810) because a last minute wagon is silly. This post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662834.html#msg662834) reads as if he'd still support it if there came one though, and he does (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg662867.html#msg662867). :D
Moreover, afterwards, he argues that Kiro was lying (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg663842.html#msg663842), and that he agrees town was having shitty discussion on D3 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664472.html#msg664472), but still heavily disapproves of me wanting to end the day already because town was having shitty discussion.
Then his allusions to Bard is scum on D3 are that Bard is scummy (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg665242.html#msg665242), Bard tried to solo quickhammer despite declaring it beforehand and I have to think about this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg665245.html#msg665245), then on D4 a promise to read Bard interactions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg666495.html#msg666495)... and that's it. Other than posturing that I'm scummy without ever producing a case for all of D3 and D4, he has waited until now, where he needed to re-read and write the cases first per his own admissions, to submit a case on me.
And then part of it misrepresents things said and done, (although yes he is right about some consistency go away), and it's wholly unimpressive on the whole.
Can you understand that it's a bit of a letdown to have someone go around for two gamedays saying how scummy you are, and then he needs upward of 24 hours to provide why you are scummy in MyLo?
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The significance of Conq implying Kiro was lying is something that can be applied to me just the same, but a Scum Janitor Kill benefits from obscuring Kiro's alignment and milking that, whereas town has no reason to do so. Therefore, for scum, it would be profitable to make people wonder about Kiro's alignment for longer and be caught in a trap there.
HW why are you doing this to me I've already given up on this game. ; _ ;
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Also I'm getting lost in the walls so I'd appreciate if we could get all of this over with. ┐( ?∀? )┌ I take full responsibility for this entire game being such a trainwreck.
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HW why are you doing this to me I've already given up on this game. ; _ ;
Well, do you want[/i[ to get lynched?
If it's bugging you that the read isn't founded in logic, then note that I haven't really felt like I've been playing a game of mafia since D2 ended anyway.
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I mean being called derptown.
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Oh. :V
Sorry if I offended you, I guess? Some of the stuff you've done looks like townie silliness in hindsight. I don't think that you're a generally derpy player, if that's the impression you got. I'm not in the position to criticize, I've been playing like shit the entire game.
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I gave up on this game midway D1 and have only been playing to win due to the rules. You can ask Pesco on that.
My current idea of how to win is to absolutely avoid lynching Dormio and myself, but I have no know of how to convince any of you guys to lynch one of the people I think is scum instead. ┐(￣ー￣)┌ Honestly I think derptown fits pretty well, I can never quite seem to convince people someone is scummy, and it makes me sadface. Mafias is obviously not the game for me.
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Since you're voting Conqueror, I might as well ask.
Do you think all those K4U/Conqueror thought process conversations were forged? It seems to me like going through the effort of forging a conversation just to look townie would seem a bit silly when scum could just post their hydra's thoughts as a normal post anyway. If posting chatlog was a normally accepted thing in MotK Mafia, it would make sense, but as far as I'm aware this is the first time anyone has ever done this. I recall typing out a message of K4U's that took her 10 seconds to type according to the times (just to make sure the timing was reasonable), and it took me about 8 seconds, so it seems fairly believable to me.
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And yes, I know people are likely going to lambast me for using something like that to judge a player's alignment. But the mod allowed Conq4u to do so, so it's within the conditions of the game now.
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... do so meaning post their chatlogs.
I'm assuming the mod allowed them, anyway, considering that nothing was done about it.
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Given PX, Kiro, and Zak have all flipped town, I think it's rather dubious how well the reactionary scum hunting tactic works :P. Given Conquerer's case at least echoes a few of the points I made, I don't altogether disagree with it, naturally. I'll admit after doing the final day of hell week, I'm not looking forward to reading things! I'll try to comment on Wall War 2011 sometime this evening.
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Renko, don't give up!
We can get through this together!
We're going to get through this and get married, remember?
We can't die here!
Conqueror: You think Bardiche is scum, right?
Does that mean you think his case on UK is invalid? Do you agree with any of the case on UK presented today by either Bardiche or I? Will you support a UK lynch at the end of today?
Hourai: Existing would be nice.
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What in this piece nitpicks Lambda's choice of words? She says Shadoweh is scum regardless of my alignment unless she flips town. This argument is incredibly silly and for a self-styled competentplayer of Mafia I wanted to know why she would then push this piece of derplogic as an opener to the game.
I'm not native to the English language so you will have to explain to me how I am nitpicking her choice of words here because I'm not seeing it.
It is precisely because you took this strain of incredibly silly derplogic and then upheld it as the epitome of scumminess that I am calling it nitpicking for bad play.
Yeah duh, I'm asking why it was scummy of me to vote Lambda for her bad logic and wanting an explanation for it. And you're the one saying I "waffled on Kiro" because I was pretty annoyed with how he came into the game going "I'm going to play anti-Bard!". All his actions that seemed scummy to me were said only by me, so I can only assume it meant I was seeing things in a different light from the rest because I was angry with him. How is this being a jerk when I interpret it as you taking a lowblow by saying "Bard is scum for waffling on Kiro :V" when I was very cross with him and couldn't trust my observations not to be colour-tinted?
I am calling you out for not having firm stances on who you thought was scum.
The implied doctor flipped after Chaore flipped. I had no way to know there was a doctor around at that point. Do you know why it's scummy? Because Kiro hadn't claimed Human or Vampire, and if we truly had two investigative roles, it seems hilariously broken if a 2scum-1recruit team would have no ways to counter at least one. Then they're a 3scum-1recruit team instead, and they provably have ways to deal with townies.
No one knew there was a doctor around - that's why I said implied.
The thing is here, that if Kiro had claimed Cop with a town result on Shadoweh, lynching another person in the last few minutes would have been just as damning because it's naively assuming that scum has no ways to deal with the investigative role, and that the investigative role cannot be recruited at all by scum. Take into account that part of town was calling for his head and part of the PX votes were from lurkers who hadn't shown up for a while, and PX was lynched by Shadoweh and Chaore, plus a contingent of people who hadn't updated their opinions yet.
ITT Bard tells us to lynched claimed, verifiable PRs without letting them prove themselves. If they are going to be a threat to scum, why not let scum deal with them, instead of doing scum's dirty work?
Actually, the opposite is scummy. Townies can change their opinions: implying changing an opinion suddenly due to a revelation or new info is scummy. At that point UK had just displayed a new piece of information which made me want to lynch her. When I said "want to lynch her more", I simply showed that I already had suspicions about her I had not mentioned before─was it bad of me not to mention this before? Perhaps. Was there any cause to lynch anyone outside of Schezo, and any cause to show scum who were all suspects and would be good MyLo/LyLo food? No, again. Hence why I did not feel the need to make cases.
I don't even know what you're trying to say here. My point was that "new" piece of information regarding UK had been available for a while, and you just hapfpened to pick it up at a time when other people had already picked it up before you. Bad timing? Perhaps, but I think of it more as opportunism, possibly even gearing up for a bus.
So why raise it?
It was an afterthought and not part of my main case; why else do you think I stuck it at the end of my post?
So when you wrote this, did you mean you needed to re-read to verify your cases, or did you mean you had none and had to re-read to build them? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg667984.html#msg667984)
Interesting false dichotomy you have there. I decided to reread from the beginning with a clean slate to see if I could find stuff I missed before.
Speaking of, I think we'd all be interested to see them, and if I am right that you'll only produce Dormio and I as scum and the rest as shades of town.
You're not getting them until later due to the fact that I'm pretty pissed off right now. Deal with it.
Responses to second half of post forthcoming.
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Where was it said that Bard was Renko?
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If Conq became recruitScum after N2, he wouldn't need to forge anything: if he kept quiet, K4u could operate on the idea that she is town, and so long as he keeps that up K4u will provide a wonderful wealth of town-motivated arguments to everything he does.
It's a double-sided sword that I've decided to ignore as a nulltell. I know during the sign-up phase that Chaore and I talked about using a Hydra in that way: with your partner operating as town, you have the perfect guise for your scummy self, and someone to bounce your ideas off on. Is Conq such a schemer? I don't know, which is why I regard that as null.
And yes, I'm saying Conq is likely to be recruitscum. I included his end-of-D2 stuff because he used arguments similar to that moment to go against me, and if he is origScum instead, all little bits should help, no?
Also, HW, why would making a post be useless? We're still playing to win, right? I've been wanting to get modkilled since halfway D1, I think you could put in a post despite the game perhaps being over already anyway.
Sorry Dormio I don't think they get the subtle hints of masonry.
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I was about to post saying that I thought you two were probably masons. <_< I'm not sure why you claimed Vanilla Town, though.
However... are you two masons, or neighbors? Because if we have a Modeslaves on our hands, that would explain why scum!Dormio[/spoiler couldn't kill Bard despite Bard not having any sort of bulletproof role.
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Masons after all the other PRs that have flipped?
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Actually, I want Dormio to speak first.
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Also, why didn't you claim Masons in the first place? :s
Conq: I think Bard is lying, but I don't think he's lying scum.
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I think Bard is batshit insane and after I reply to his case on me I'm going to ignore him for the rest of the game before my blood pressure hits the roof again.
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Blargh.
##Vote Dormio
Pretty sure this is the best I can do right now. I don't think this set-up actually has masons in it, considering Kiro and Lambda, and if it has neighbors, then I think that one of them (DORMIOOOOOOOOOO) is scum.
I do realize I'm barely even playing a proper game of mafia at this point (and I swear I will start playing Mafia again when the next game comes around and I gain my motivation back), but it's not like scumhunting hasn't also constantly told me we should be lynching Dormio.
I think ignoring a player outright is wrong, honestly.
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WAIT
WAIT
Bard, would you have been informed if one of the masons was recruited into the scumteam?
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Bard, would you have been informed if one of the masons was recruited into the scumteam?
I am told the answer is "Yes".
I told you, scum can't kill me because I'm an easy mislynch to push.
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Bullshit.
Complete and utter bullshit. You realize scum only need one mislynch, right? Ladies and Gentlemen, BardxDormio OTP. If they can deflect the lynch for ONE DAY they survive. A mason claim, ESPECIALLY after they BOTH claimed Vanilla, is utter bullshit designed to prevent us from lynching them.
I am 100% confident in lynching Bard OR Dormio at this juncture.
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UK: I'm not lynching Bard. Will you switch your vote to Dormio?
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Sorry Dormio I don't think they get the subtle hints of masonry.
:(
And I was trying so hard to keep it natural.
It matters not, Renko!
We're going get through this, together!
I absolutely won't allow either of us to die!
Conqueror: You think Bardiche is scum, right?
Does that mean you think his case on UK is invalid? Do you agree with any of the case on UK presented today by either Bardiche or I? Will you support a UK lynch at the end of today?
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I'm not voting either at the moment. That said
##Vote Dormio
Sure, I'd have preferred Bard but the order no longer matters.
Though the fact you hesitate to lynch Bard is really awkward given their claim strongly indicates they're a pair.
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Also, I don't think that them claiming masons would succesfully deflect a lynch away from them. People would just assume that they're the last scum fakeclaiming. That said, I still want Dormio gone.
I'm pretty sure more is going on here than "Bard and Durrrmio are masons" or "Bard and Durrrmio are the last two scum".
Bard and Dormio: Fullclaim, now. I want more than just "we're masons".
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We're going to get married when this is all over?
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Does this have any gameplay relevance?
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People would hesitate to lynch claimed masons. It's only natural. It's a "confirmable" role because you need two people to go with it. So they basically HAVE to be doing all or nothing, and normally this would be a bad play for scum. But, guess what? It becomes a much more attractive play in lylo, and when your team is already this close to losing, you throw out what you can.
Admittedly, I CAN think of one situation where one of the two is town. I expect you can too. This automatically makes Dormio the better lynch.
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Conqueror: You think Bardiche is scum, right?
Does that mean you think his case on UK is invalid? Do you agree with any of the case on UK presented today by either Bardiche or I? Will you support a UK lynch at the end of today?
If Bardiche is scum, and he just claimed masons with you (a.k.a confirmed town to each other), and you have corroborated that, then you're the last two scum and you're the two people we're going to be lynching. There's no fucking way there are masons in this setup.
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We figured it'd only make you want to lynch us more. :wat: And hey look, we were right.
UK voting Dormio, obvscum.~
Renko Usami, Mason with mai raburii darling, but not since the start of the game. We didn't feel it pertinent to claim because we've been lollygagging in our QT. I talked about suspecting UK which is why I posted that it wanted to make me lynch her "even more": I'd forgotten what I had written in QT and what in thread.
Since everyone was all DORMIO X BARD SCUM OTP, I figured it'd be sealing the deal if we claimed but you know, screw it. :V
We're going to get married when this is all over?
Yeah, let's elope. Town's lost this game. How about you self-vote and then I hammer you so we can end this godawful game?
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Fuck it. I'm going to pull a scumbutpossiblytownbutpossiblysiblings!Bard and say we should probably just lynch Dormio ASAP. I want this game to end, regardless of whether he's scum or town. From everybody who suspects Bard's PoV, it should be the same as Dormio claiming scum, anyway.
Renko Usami, Mason with mai raburii darling, but not since the start of the game.
but not since the start of the game.
oh.
WELP
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Yeah, let's elope. Town's lost this game. How about you self-vote and then I hammer you so we can end this godawful game?
R-R-Renko?
Are you... trying to kill me?
It took me so long to find you in this world, and then you try to kill me?
Renko! What am I to you?
Conqueror: Does the UK case make sense or not? And does that mean that you aren't willing to get on it?
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I think the claims that they didn't start as masons confirms that Bard and Dormio are just forfeiting without actually forfeiting. <_< Fuck me, I seriously thought that read of Bard was worth something. Oh well.
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Do you want to self-hammer then? :( Do you honestly think we can turn this all around and get them to vote UK or Conq?
Also, Conq, why NOT vote Dormio then so I can hammer him?
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Conqueror: Does the UK case make sense or not? And does that mean that you aren't willing to get on it?
Admittedly, I was considering a UK/Bard pairing. But you've just as good as claimed scum.
##Vote Dormio
Where's Hourai?
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My role is Hieda no Akyuu, Vanilla Townie and human and what is this.
I see a bunch of stuff happening so I'm going to read it. BRB.
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##VOTE: Dormio
Thank fuck we're rid of this game.
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Fuck yes, I won! I am the best survivor.
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We still have to lynch Bard tomorrow.
Also huh what.
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Hammer, shut up. I'll take a red for this.
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I didn't even need to do anything after D2, I basically just stopped playing and nobody even considered there might have been something wrong about it. Hooray for flying under the radar.
<- Third party MVP 2011
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Well to be fair, it wasn't in town's wincon to kill third parties.
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*cough*
Hammer. <_< Shut up.
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And so in the midst of all the arguing and all the bloodshed, that even seemed to be more serious and cruel during the day than during the night, the combined wishes of both humans and vampires seem to spontaneously come true. In the deep red mist, the SDM seemed to fade away, as if fed up with the entire affair of coming to Gensokyo as a change of atmosphere, leaving the Human Village to wonder for themselves who were the true demons of the game. Result of the game: 'Happily' Ever After
Also, Renko disappeared and was probably sent to hell.
===
Scum
Schezo, playing as Remillia Scarlet, Mafia Godmother/Recruiter
You are Remillia Scarlet, disguised as Yukari Yakumo, Mafia Godmother/Recruiter.
Absurdly powerful but still lacking the wisdom gained from age, you want nothing more than to drive all humans from the vicinity of your castle in cold xenophobia. And what better time to do that than the night of the full moon? As the greatest and most fearsome vampire in all of Gensokyo, your abilities are varied and are as follows:
- During N2, you must select a person you want to be recruited into the scum faction. That person will be a vanilla mafia goon without special abilities and a vampire from D3 onwards. This ability is one-shot.
- On N1 and N3 onwards, you are a godmother with normal abilities (e.g if you are investigated, the person gets a 'town' result). You lose this abilitiy if you are the one conducting the NK, however.
- If you are tied in number of votes with someone else at the end of any day, the coinflip will be rigged and you will not be lynched, due to your ability to manipulate fate in small amounts,
You are allied with K4U and Chaore, and are allowed to post in the scum quicktopic at any time. You also know the presence of a Night Hunter somewhere in the pool of people; a renegade vampire who will merely die when targeted and not succumb to your occult ceremony. You are advised to choose carefully.
You win when scum form the majority of players (e.g 50% and above). All the best.
===
Chaore, playing as Hong Meiling, Scum JoAT
You are Hong Meiling, Scum JoAT. After losing to Remillia Scarlet in a closely matched fight, you have sworn allegiance to the family of Scarlets, acting as their bodyguard and spy (being the only human under their service). With the night of the full moon hanging over the moutainside, the time is ripe for you to deal justice to the society which has forsaken you, satisfying not only the needs of Remillia Scarlet, but also your thirst for revenge.
You are a 1-shot rolecop (complete role PM), tracker, and roleblocker. During any night, you may use any one of these abilities and target a person of your choice. Once an ability is used, you may not use it again. You may not use them if you are conducting the NK.
You are allied with K4U and Schezo. You win when scum form the majority.
===
K4u/Conq, playing as Flandre Scarlet, Mafia Janitor Nightvig
You are Flandre Scarlet, disguised as Tewi Inaba, 1-shot N2 Mafia Janitor Nightvig. After being locked up in the cellar for long periods at a time, you are finding yourself to be pretty peckish right now.
On N2, you must choose a non-scum target to kill. Furthermore, the body will be so maimed to the point where it is impossible for anyone to garner any details about role and alignment, and thus, there will be no flip for your target. However, due to your voracious appetite, you are probably guaranteed not to be able to rememeber anything either, and thus, you will not be given a flip as well.
Also, from N3 onwards, you will be locked in the cellar and will be unable to conduct the NK for as long as Remilla Scarlet is alive. The wanton cruelty with which you inflict on your victims is evidently too much even for your sister.
You are alllied with X and X. You win when scum form the majority.
===
UncertainKitten, recruited on N2 as a Mafia Goon
Unfortunately, you have been bitten by the Mafia last night. You have now transformed into a Mafia Goon, irregardless of your previous role and alignment, and now serve the Scarlets.
You are allied with X, Y, and Z. You win when scum form the majority. All the best, and do play for your win condition.
===
Town
PX, playing as Saukya Izayoi, Town Night Hunter
You are Sakuya Izayoi, town-aligned Night Hunter. You are a vampire (so far as other people are concerned), cursed by birth and despised by mankind. With an air of vague mystery and a detached coldness around you, you seem destined to die at the hands of the people you have sworn to protect.
You have the following abilities:
-You are a 1-shot bulletproof. For one time only, you are immune to night-kills and vigs.
-On N2, you may choose a target to ##hunt. If the target is a vampire, the target is killed during the night. If the target is not a vampire, then the target of night actions done by that person will be known to you.
-If you are recruited by scum on N2, you will die instead (regardless of bulletproof). However, your ##hunt will be rendered invalid. Town will be notified that no one was recruited N2.
You have the following limitations:
-Due to your need to avoid others from seeing your red eyes, the only role that you may claim without penalty is Vanilla Townie. Claiming to have any additional abilities (such as being able to investigate, a note being passed, etc.) will result in you being killed immediately with the day phase ending (this is not illegal, however). You may breadcrumb freely, but you may not give anything concrete. This only applies until LyLO, where you can roleclaim freely.
-Scum know of your immunity to the N2 vampire bite (though that's all they know)
If you die, you will be revealed as a Night Hunter, but with no other information.
You win when all the scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Zakeri, playing as Patchoulli Knowledge, Town Witch
You are Patchoulli Knowledge, town-aligned witch. You are human. As a witch revered for her command over the elemental magics, you have a few abilities which you can use, though your growing fraility has impeded your potential somewhat in these trying times, condemning you into passivity.
On all nights except N2, you may use your wood magic to ##protect someone. That person is immune to normal Nks and vigs for the night.
From D3 onwards, with exception of LyLo, you may use the power of the sun to ##illuminate someone during the day. If your target is a vampire, the target will be 'vanquished' (as good as a dayvig). If your target is not a vampire, then your target will be robbed of his sight and will be as good as roleblocked for that day and night (he will also not be able to carry out the NK if he is human scum). In both cases, this exhausting spell will render you unconscious throughout the remainder of the game, resulting in your flip.
You win when all the scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Kiro, playing as Kaguya Houraisan, Town Watcher
You are Kaguya Houraisan, town-aligned clairvoyant. You are human.
On every night, you may use the power of the moon to aid you in your clairvoyance. You may select a target to ##watch each night. The identity of anyone who targets your target that night will be known to you.
You win when all the scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Lady Lamdadelta, playing as Aya Shiremaru, Town Commuter Cop
You are Aya Shiremaru, Town N2 Commuter. You are a tengu(!).
While on a vacation, it seems that you have stumbled upon something rather interesting in this quaint little village. However, you have inexcusably left your journalistic equipment atYoukai Mountain, and are pretty much missing the exciting opportunities offered by recent events.
You plan to convniently slip away on N2 to retreive your equipment and return on D3, in order to give a good and honest account of the situation there. Therefore, after the end of D2 and before the start of N2, everyone will be notified in the topic that you have slipped away on N2, and are unavailable both as a target and an initiator for night actions. On N3, you have your camera, and are allowed to use it once every subsequent night to investigate a target. However, due to your fast and free nature, any protective ability used on you will not work on the same night you are using your investigative ability.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Dormio, playing as Maribel Han, Vanilla Townie
You are Maribel Han, Vanilla Townie and human. Other than being the alternate self of a person living far into the future, you have no special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Hanged Hourai, playing as Heida no Akyuu, Vanilla Townie
You are Hieda no Akyuu, Vanilla Townie and human. Other than being third in your bloodline of chroniclers, you have no special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
UncertainKitten, playing as Byakuren Hijiri, Vanilla Townie
You are Byakuren Hijiri Vanilla Townie and human. You may be a great youkai exterminator, but surprisingly, you don't really have much to offer against the Scarlets, and have no special abilities to help town in this game.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Dorian.G/capt.h. playing as Eirin Yagakoro, Vanilla Townie
You are Eirin Yagakoro, Vanilla Townie and human. Strange, isn't it? You have no special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
huhwhat, playing as Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Vanilla Townie
You are Chiyuri Kitashirakawa, Vanilla Townie and human. You usually have strange dreams about your supposed other selves, which repeatedly haunt you with intangible concepts such as the 'grand unified theory' and some such. Other than that, you are a mere human with no special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Bardiche, playing as Renko Usami, Vanilla Townie
You are Renko Usami, Vanilla Townie and human. Other than being the alternate self of a person living far into the future, you have no special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
===
Shadoweh, playing as Parsee Mizuhashi, Vanilla Townie
You are Parsee Mizuhashi, Vanilla Townie and human. Of course, long before you became the bridge princess famed for her jealousy, you were just a reasonably kind person living out her life in the human village, tormented by your apparent ugliness and your lack of any special abilities.
You win when all scum are eliminated. All the best.
-
Insert post-game content here. In a minute or two.
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(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/theteamgr2.png)
:)
RENKO, HOW COULD YOU BETRAY ME?!
WITH THE POWER OF OUR LOVE, WE COULD HAVE MADE EVERYONE SEE THE LIGHT!
BUT THEN YOU KILLED ME!
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So, now that I'm not aligned, I want to reiterate my apologies to Zak, PX, and Dormio. As well as my apology to the game at large. Sorry for being a huge bitch.
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welp
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Scum QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/hgjsGRySbVv7M)
Not real happy with how I played, but oh well. Still want to give a GJ to Dormio because you really did play well.
-
I'd also like to apologize again for my behaviour.
Also, Renko disappeared and was probably sent to hell.
RENKO!
EVEN IF YOU KILLED ME, I STILL LOVE YOU!
I CAN'T GO ON WITHOUT YOU!
WAIT FOR ME, I'LL SAVE YOU FROM HELL ONE DAY!
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Yeah, I'll take full blame for the nastiness in this game. :U
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Apologies to anyone I inadvertently pissed off. I think this game was a ragefest for all of us.
Edit: Also for future reference none of the chat logs were faked. I just played townie with Kitten4U from time to time as fit the situation. :3
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I don't think I caused any nastiness, but I'm sorry that I essentially stopped playing. @_@ I would have replaced out, but it was MYLO and that would have been bad form.
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Wow.
I was completely right about UK.
Even the target on N1 being a rolecop. :V
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Well, not completely until around D5. D4 you were still holding my D1/D2 against me, when I was still town. And D1/D2 cases against me WERE completely pants on head. But, still, by the end, you were right for the right reasons.
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Yay!
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I apologize for my early game, too. I don't think I did anything other than escalate the rage all of day two. Also, I'm still ashamed that I officially dropped UK the moment she actually becomes scum.
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Town is a blithering pack of idiots, every game. If they don't start that way, they get slowly reduced to it. I can't believe you think scum is going to lose. No one is going to catch [REDACTED] and town tends to consist of less people playing well then scum have nightkills.
I resent this because of the amount of pessimism involved. Referring to town as a "blithering pack of idiots" doesn't want to make them step up their game, it just makes people who roll town lose hope on achieving victory. Just because you have infinite townie motivation or some shit doesn't mean everybody else does, or that they can't lose theirs based on the mentality of the other players.
Also,
HW is just secretly hoping he's next in line to be NKed.
I have no idea if were joking or not when you said this, but yes, I pretty much was. <_< I was pretty much the same as Bard in that I wanted to get out of the game ASAP.
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Graveyard QT (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/3isD9AzxsB9)
Stop being an assbite Schezo!
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(Also, no, I wasn't actually a survivor, if it isn't obvious at this point. I was just fucking around to see if I could at least get some form of amusement from the endgame.)
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I am the best at claiming.
It took 300 words to say that I was vanilla town and human.
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Actually, fuck it. I think we should stop having Graveyard quicktopics, or if we do, we should stop giving spoilers away to the people within them. I'm pretty sure that a large majority of rage from people in dead quicktopics originates from confirmation bias.
-
I would still like Graveyards since (
I'm always scum and have nothing to do when I die) since I would like to see people's thought processes and comments on what happens, but yeah I don't enjoy confirmation biasy graveyards like I do normal graveyards. So if we can keep that away we'll be good I think.
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Also, comment on finally rolling Vanilla.
Holy crap.
I can claim that I've been vanilla in half the games I've played now.
Because I study statistics and I'm pretty sure that 6/7 is half.
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To be fair, Yes, Not informing people who is who is how to handle graveyards, frankly.
I nearly had to choke PX over the course of the game for saying TOO FUCKING MUCH IN THE PRESENCE OF PLAYERS.
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I would personally just contemplate having seperate graveyards for town and scum.
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I would personally just contemplate having seperate graveyards for town and scum.
>be only player that dies as scum
>FOREVER ALONE
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Confirmation Bias Graveyards are the normal kind. :derp:
I do agree, graveyard topic is much more fun when the dead townies and scum could still play along at home. Scum just need to avoid talking about who's right and who's wrong or who they're rooting for, etc.
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From this point forward, no Day 1 will begin before the mod actually declares that Day 1 has begun unless the mod specifically states otherwise.
Other things will wait for Affinity to finish up his business, but that one doesn't need to wait.
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Almost forgot I made this.
I was born again as a new person!
Shadoweh not the Scum!
Modern, Shadoweh the Scum or who made the last Is Scum?
I'm not sure yet. I'll be reading more tomorrow.
This also did not want to spend much ...
I reread it, because the dude PX modern Mafia.
Au. Earl drove a lot of you do not want to support.
(http://i.imgur.com/2VDKN.jpg)
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Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.
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To continue what I was saying earlier, I honestly think that confirmation biased graveyard in general are absolutely terrible because they promote insensitivity towards the living players. It is very rage-inducing to read a bunch of people act as if all the living townies are total idiots despite the fact that there's no real guarantee the dead people wouldn't be just as confused and/or misled by scum in that same situation, primarily because of how unfair it is.
I think it would nice if people in general would start having more grace for people who are wrong in games of Mafia, mainly because there's nothing actually bad about it. This isn't to say that we should treat them as if they didn't fuck up, but we should at least not act as if they are a worse person than the rest of us for not playing optimally in a game of all things. It may be a letdown to the team of the player who was incorrect, but pretty much everybody is wrong at times in Mafia, and looking down on townies you know are wrong just because they're wrong at a critical juncture like MYLO/LYLO is rather biased and unnecessary.
Gonna get this post out here even though I've already complained about it because it's something that really irritates me and decreases my interest in this game. I dislike tense atmospheres in general when it comes to these things.
Cut by UK's write-up about massclaims. I don't have anything to contribute, but I appreciate that she posted it.
Also,
Shadoweh not the Scum!
Modern, Shadoweh the Scum or who made the last Is Scum?
This reminds me of Dlanor for some reason.
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But I posted that in a different thread o.O.
And you know, I agree with huh what. I think that's been a big trend that's been hitting mafia both here and on MS, and it's not good. I'm going to try harder not to be rude to people who are wrong, since hind sight isn't really that much better.
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FEI the mod QT is about 23149320478304802342 times better than the graveyard.
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Can't tell what "better" means in this context.
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Is it going to be disclosed this game?
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>.> What just happened?
huh what: I am one of the blithering idiots. I did little to nothing to actually help town this game. Also I died while realizing who the scum were (and realizing I was so dead <.<) So the graveyard meant little to me.
WHY DIDN'T YOU CHOOSE MEEEEEEEEEEE I WOULD HAVE ACCEPTED THE QT OFFER THIS TIME KIIIITEN4UUUUU
Proof Keine is a better mafia player then me and I will sheep to her like she is Hourai (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9878.msg664706.html#msg664706)
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Lol graveyard.
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Mod Notes
Setup: Though we will never know for sure how balanced this setup is, the game was meant to favor scum on D1 and D2 (provided they protect the scum recruiter) and to favor town from D3 onwards. On the first two days, scum have the ability to daytalk and coordinate their actions, with most of town's roles rendered useless for the first two nights. The JoAT with it's rolecop and tracker abilities can get information on some of the power roles town has for recruitment and nightvigging on N2. While they might have to choose carefully for the recruitment due to the presence of the Night Hunter, they are pretty much in control. However, from D3 onwards, scum is pretty much nerfed, having only the recruited scum (making D1 and D2 useless for finding him), and two godmothers (Hong Meiling as human to avoid the vigs, Remillia as godmother to avoid the cop). They would have to work for their next two mislynches then to win the game.
For town, their roles are pretty powerful and are set back only by them being slow to act in the game with only 4 mislynches allowed for town. The watcher is town's most consistent role, especially on N2, in that he can potentially kill scum on N2 by watching the recruited person or the janitored person. The nightvig is also a pretty powerful role for town which could work against him if scum rolecopped him; his limitation on his ability to claim also prevents him from being confirmed town from a sucessful nightvig or bulletproof. The commuter cop could only investigate once in the first four days, but it would make choices easier for town in that there's no way she could be the recruited scum on N2, and was meant to be a soft counter to the recruited scum. Lastly, the town witch with her protective ability could cause an apparent cop-doc lock to scum (but not really due to Aya's inability to be protected while investigating), and in addition could easily vig someone if in danger of being lynched.
Too bad none of the above town roles (except for Zakeri's) ever saw the light of day. I'm personally not too sure if this setup was balanced or not, though I think it favors a competent town. In other words, the longer the game in terms of game days in general, the stronger town gets.
===
Game notes: I would say that I'm sorely disappointed in town as a mod for deciding to lynch almost all their power roles in the first two days, though that might be old news. Personally, the things I were most angry at were LLD's anti-town play on D1 (not even bothering to claim such an easily confirmable and N2-untouchable role!) and Kiro's bandwagon on D2 which did not make any sense at all to me. Also, the combination of scum and mod mistakes on D3 just made the game worse and worse and not fun at all (I apologize for the wrong votecount), such that the only Mafia left in this Mafia game was finding who UK and K4U were, which no one really wanted to do. It was pretty much a trainwreck for all three parties: town, scum, and mods.
If anything, the only good thing about this game is that the usual not-so-experienced players, Dormio (who is unquestionably Town MVP) and Hanged Hourai, played really well, when all the experienced players such as huhwhat (who is in my opinion scum MVP for rather bad scumhunting and Dormio misrepping) did not. I hope that people will treat them far more seriously as competent players in future games.
===
Player Conduct: On MoTK, once every few games, there always seems to be a period of time where all the pent-up rage and stuff like that just explodes and makes the game unfun. UK should get a yellow card for her goading Dormio like that, though I personally don't think Dormio should get one since he's just reacting. I'm also inclined to forgive Bardiche for early-game stuff towards Kiro since he seems to be attacking the play and not the person (though using unnecessary language), and I don't hold his game-ending vote against him at all since to my knowledge most people wanted the game to just end anyway. Similarly, I see Chaore's awesome scumclaim as both a derp move combined with some role shenanigans and an attempt to play the game, so I don't think he deserves a yellow card either. There is much to be said about his graveyard conduct which I personally do not like, though I won't put that into consideration. That's about it from me, but pesco has more experience regarding these so I'll wait for him to do what he needs to do. At the very least, I think it's somewhat nice that UK and Bard did voluntarily offer to take the yellow cards.
Also yes, confirmation phase is confirmation phase and not D1, so yeah. Reason why I felt reluctant to deduct the lost time from the D1 deadline was because some people were not willing to play before the confirmation was given , and I felt it was unfair to them if time was deducted like that.
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Night Actions
N1:
Kiro watches UK (Chaore)
Chaore rolecops UK(VT)
N2:
Schezo recruits UK (successful)
Chaore roleblocks Kiro (successful)
K4U janvigs Kiro (successful)
Kiro watches Chaore (unsuccessful)
N3:
Zakeri protects UK (successful)
Schezo kills Zakeri (successful)
N4
UK kills Shadoweh (successful).
Also, players with respective roles updated on previous page.
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gg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftHOmkgfTIY)
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Feeling too :effort: right now to post more. Just get hold of me somehow if you want stuff explained.
UK - 1 Yellow, self-requested.
Bard - 1 Yellow, self-requested.
Pesco - 2 Yellow, self-requested.
These will stay on record for the next 2 games that you participate in. My 2 marks will take 4 games to completely remove, 2 games each.
The game took a lot out of everyone, so let's not have a repeat of this ever again.
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So, how are you holding up?
Because I'm a potato.
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Shadoweh's Jealousic Park (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCSurW2yWkg&feature=related)
In today's mafia, everyone but me looks envious
Don't you think so too?
I mean, I really think that's how it is.
Anyway, since I'm a vanilla who can't stand it?
Ah, enough! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!
Schezzy-kins, jealous! Another QT with K4U JEALOUSY!
Key-ore, jealous! Stalk and block whoever JEALOUSY!
K-K-K4U, jealous! KYUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU JEALOUSY!
Conqyor, jealous! No one rereads Conqy JEALOUSY!
UncertainKittan, jealous! Got recruited instead of me JEALOUSY!
PX Death Time, jealous! Would have shot the recruit JEALOUSY!
Zakky-chan, jealous! Woke up and caught the recruiter JEALOUSY!
OSAKA STARE, jealous! Looked right at the rolecop JEALOUSY!
LSD, jealous! Best role in the whole game JEALOUSY!
Aah, what's going on!? There are so many
Roles in this game that leave me unsatisfied!
Aah, I want this, I want that!
Please, give me the freedom to roleclaim! Oh, jealousy!!
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such that the only Mafia left in this Mafia game was finding who UK and K4U were, which no one really wanted to do
Dormio and I tried! Rabu rabu 4eva!
Graveyards should just be removed, breeding grounds for nastiness.